An explanation of Model-A

[Angel von Himmel]

Model-A attempts to explain the balance of all 8 possible functions within an individual type and the effects they have upon each other. They can interact in diffrent ways: competing for strength, tolerating with indifference, accepting and supporting, or even determined destruction of each other.

The ego-block (1+2)
Most pronounced functions, dominant over function 3 & 4

1. Program function - also know as the "foundation," a person places the most confidence in this function, and molds his or her lifestyle to suit this function; a person's self-esteeme and feelings of worth are based on the usage of this function.

2. Creative function - also know as the "realisation," some effort is required to use this function, but it comes easy. It is the base function for a person's creativity and is used in conjunction with the 1st function.

The SUPER-EGO Block (3+4)
Weak and suppressed by functions 1 & 2

3. Role function - a person may unconsciously attempt to realize this function in order to avoid the embarrassment of having the weaknesses of other functions discovered; though usually suppressed by the 1st function, it is passive and seeks not to intrude on others. A person may be sensitive to criticism in this function, and may only implement it as an informational source to aid other functions.

4. Vulnerable function - also known as the PoLR [point-of-least-resistance], a fragile function by which insecurities are realized, and usually suppressed by the 2nd function. If pressure is placed on this function from an outside source, a person may react with irritation or hostility. It often manifest itself in a state of severe immaturity. This function could be likened to a naked hungry and screaming baby, unable to take care of itself. Since the 3rd function neglects to inform and support, it often relies on the 6th function for protection and survival.

The SUPER-ID Block (5+6)
Neglected functions by which a person allows to be manipulated by outside influences, usually assists functions 3 & 4

5. Suggestive Function - also known a "dual-seeking," this function is typically the most vulnerable to ouside influences and manipulation. It is not uncommon for a person to physically request help from another in regards to this function, as it often acts as a companion and helper to the 3rd function and indirectly to the 4th function. Sometimes a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

6. The Activation Function - also know as the "Hidden-agenda," this function willfully seeks to express itself and to become energized into a state of confidence or creativity. It may attempt to compete with other functions and become dominant, deceiving many to believe it is a strong and resourceful function. In reality, it often implements itself as a disguise or a feint intended to feed, cloth, and protect other functions. It could be considered a parental function to the childish and immature 4th function. Often a person can mistake this function for the 1st or 2nd functions.

The ID Block (7+8)
Weak and unconscious functions, usually ignored or seen as intrusive. The actual existance of these functions has been questioned.

7. Control Function - easy function for a person to spot in others and to criticise.

8. Standard Function - a person needs guidance to realise this function, if at all.[/b]

[Jimbean]

I'm not criticizing, but what is the purpose of the above post?

[Angel von Himmel]

the only problem is most of this explanation jibberish also.

Why is it that the only people that are actually doing something are the ones who always get criticised by those who do nothing at all?

I spend hours upon hours reading type descriptions and weeks pouring over the saved results of the socion.info typology test for patterns and all I get is people saying this is gibberish?

Alright, I suppose this means I failed at giving anyone a clear explanation of model-a. Back to the drawing board with some other idea.

[Cone]

Why is it that the only people that are actually doing something are the ones who always get criticised by those who do nothing at all?

This is what happened to Smilingeyes. It's a sad fact of life.

[Creepy-]

The id functions have been questioned as not existing? by who? forum members? You aren't finding anything, you're just lumping together a bunch of descriptions of functions and saying it explains the model. It doesn't explain the model-A. You just sorta paraphrased the description on Lytov's site. You aren't explaining how the functions interact or anything. Ask questions, speculate, but don't act like you're "explaining" it when all you're doing describing functions and providing no theoretical basis. If you want to explain the model-A stick with what has been given, read translations and figure it out.

[Angel von Himmel]

The id functions have been questioned as not existing? by who? forum members? You aren't finding anything, you're just lumping together a bunch of descriptions of functions and saying it explains the model. It doesn't explain the model-A.

Alright, genious ... would you like to explain Model-A to us?

If no, then shut up ... you are not saying anything worthy of noting.

You just sorta paraphrased the description on Lytov's site.

Ohh really ... if it is a paraphrase, then how come Lytov's site fails to mention half of what is written in the description? Now, the format is very similar, but if that is the reason you are claiming this is a paraphrase, that is a fairly poor assumption in my eyes.

You aren't explaining how the functions interact or anything. Ask questions, speculate, but don't act like you're "explaining" it when all you're doing describing functions and providing no theoretical basis. If you want to explain the model-A stick with what has been given, read translations and figure it out.

When you come up with a better description for model-a, I will take you seriously. Until that time, your opinion means nothing to me.

[diamond]

the only problem is most of this explanation jibberish also.

Why is it that the only people that are actually doing something are the ones who always get criticised by those who do nothing at all?

I spend hours upon hours reading type descriptions and weeks pouring over the saved results of the socion.info typology test for patterns and all I get is people saying this is gibberish?

Alright, I suppose this means I failed at giving anyone a clear explanation of model-a. Back to the drawing board with some other idea.

You are working too hard, rmcnew.

Let someone else do the work and then you can be the critic.

[Creepy-]

There's a difference between a shanty and a palace, there is a difference between a pile of nuts, bolts and nails and a machine. I'd say that this explanation is comparable to the former of each of the above examples.

[Angel von Himmel]

For those of you who want me to stop, give it up already. I am not stopping just because a few unproductive nitwits decided to anonymously criticise and discourage my efforts.

[cjcoldmine]

Don't let those anonymous idiots distract you from your work. I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

[Angel von Himmel]

Don't let those anonymous idiots distract you from your work. I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

Thank you, I appreciate that ...

[Slava]

Use the , ignore the guest. it's important for us to figure out all the screws and nuts and discuss them until the machine emerges. Those who criticize are the ones who are bitter about never being able to comprehend the finished product, or those who gave up and think that they are the top mind. (if they can't do it then no one can)

[Jimbean]

I think the "guest" is being critical on how we construct the "machine" for a very good reason! I think we need to take a scientific approach on these things if this has not been done already. I am in full support of any advancements in this subject, but I want to know the method in which these results came from.

[Angel von Himmel]

I think the "guest" is being critical on how we construct the "machine" for a very good reason! I think we need to take a scientific approach on these things if this has not been done already. I am in full support of any advancements in this subject, but I want to know the method in which these results came from.

If you want to piss me off, keep going on about the 'scientific method.' I do not like to be told how things are suppose to be done.

[Waddlesworth]

I agree. It's excellent to have people theorizing and all, but this is not an "explanation", although it is titled as such. It is more of an incomplete description, and even moreso an intuitive speculation. There are already many things known about the model-A not cited here, which leads me to the conclusion that this is not an integrated framework. Probably the most fundamental yet completely ignored aspect of this is Freud's theory, which the blocks bear the names of. An understanding of his theory will explain most of the model-A. Really, Freud and his ideas are virtually completely analogous to the Model-A.

Now if you have studied this model in depth and been very keen on details you will notice many things are left out. There are a wide variety of sources and titles to parts and functions of the model which aren't included in this description. The very notion of the ID functions not existing is absurd and has no founding. Although all of the functions are important I would say that the ID functions are second in importance to the EGO block, because they deal with how a person primarily produces information for their environment. They also deal with a person's personal knowlege, which is fundamental. By defintion the "ID" and its function are extremely important. So I feel that this is poorly researched and should be criticized.

Is it "mean" to make remarks? I don't think so. Someone reading this and who is not very familiar with Socionics should not be led to believe that anything said in this is true. I am of the opinion that most of what is said in this is not true, and although it is vague enough to be accepted as "possibly true" or "okay" in some regards. This isn't good enough. You can compare a fly to a light switch if you really wanted to. But that doesn't do so much, now does it?

People already have answers, it isn't like this is one of the worlds great mysteries or something, the information is out there if you want to find it.

I have promised an explanation in the recent past and I do have one. It might take me some time to write but I wouldn't mind sharing my understanding in the near future. Since this model integrates knowledge and understanding from many different theories it will be a pretty substantive writeup, but it will be a little bit more professional and alot less deceiving.

[Angel von Himmel]

I suppose we can agree to disagree, as I can see now that we either have unresolvable and conflicting interpretations [or really big egos] that makes working together nearly impossible. I think your objection and premise that this information is flawed is based more on a misunderstanding and personal bias against my means of procuring information than the actual content itself, in which I can only assume we belong to two entirely diffrent schools of thought. I wish you the best of luck.

[Waddlesworth]

I have nothing against you or your way of thinking. I just think that you tend to spread yourself too thin. Its great to speculate, but you are jumping all over the place. This stuff takes time to contemplate and organize and everything. I have been into it about a year and a half now, and I know, it takes over.

It makes you think a million thoughts at once and you start to lose your mind a little bit. dreaming of functions, systems, explanations. having answers, losing them, having them return in another form. This stuff, I honestly do think, is going to be a big deal in the future. I just get that feeling. But there are plenty of people that already pretty much know what's going on. In my opinion when attempting to explain things we must try and follow the path they have trodden before inventing new models, or revising models and so forth. Look, I don't have a problem with you, i don't compete, my ego isn't getting the best of me. I am as obsessed with this stuff as you are, but I also know how to keep in the shadows until I gain an adequate understanding of everything. Master and then manipulate.

But as for calling ourselves members of "schools of thought", well, i don't consider myself a member of any school of thought right now. I've never personally met a socionist or gone to any lecture or anything. I've never ever read a good "basic socionics" textbook. for the time being, I feel that I am a good translator, that's all. Its about jung, read jung. Its about freud, read freud. If you can get your hands on some kepinski, read it. Connect the dots and then you're set.

[Rocky]

"First correct yourself, then correct others."
~ Talmud

So, I tend to agree with Waddy here. Don't take anything personally.

(On a side note: You may very well be an ENTP (NLE), Wadddlesworth, but I swear to God you sound Gamma right now.)

[Angel von Himmel]

Waddles, that is great and all, but I still believe that your objections are based purely on personal bias and other misunderstandings. If this honestly was not the case, then you would have already realized that there is absolutly nothing I have said that has not been said by someone else eslewhere. For example, you attacked model-X and said it did not explain anything about any relationships meerly because I added the weak suppressed functions [PoLR and ROLE functions] down the sides for comparison purposes and to demonstrate their relationship with one another.

I even based every single relationship description I wrote on socion.info on my modified model-x and my understanding of model-a.

http://socion.info/activity.html
http://socion.info/quasiidentical.html
http://socion.info/benefit.html
http://socion.info/supervision.html
http://socion.info/semidual.html
http://socion.info/illusionary.html
http://socion.info/superego.html

So, to tell me that the functions do not relate to each other in the way I explained is like telling me that every single relationship description I have authoured up to this point is flawed, because it was supposedly written with a poor understanding of model-a and model-x. Well, I think that is total bullshit and purely ignorant.

I think those of you who are critising my achievements would do better to focus your energies in something constructive and stop bugging me about your perceived quality of my efforts. I am typically do more good than I am harm, and if you can not see that than I can only assume you are harbouring some sort of jealousy or underestimate my abilities. That never did anyone any good.

[Cone]

Freud was an ENTp, Aushra was an ENTp, rmcnew and Waddy are ENTps...

Thanks for the basis, ENTps, but I really think we need new types in here.

Ok, ok, I'm getting to work.

[Angel von Himmel]

Freud was an ENTp, Aushra was an ENTp, rmcnew and Waddy are ENTps...

Thanks for the basis, ENTps, but I really think we need new types in here.

Ok, ok, I'm getting to work.

Yeah, and notice how the only people who seem to be activelly criticising me are ENTps ... Blaze, Jimbean, Waddlesworth ...

And a few other types either support my efforts or are indiffrent. Figures ...

[Waddlesworth]

No one is jealous of you. To be honest i'm just annoyed. I'll just flat out say it, I think you're a fraud, you're overstepping your knowledge and are trying to dupe everyone into believing you are some sort of master of type theory. Your web-page is bullshit, it basically is a rip-off of socionics.com, your type descriptions are clearly plagiarized, consciously or not. You give no credit to any sources, as though you somehow overnight have a perfect understanding of everything. But you don't you're a fool and you have made yourself that way.

And what is this "Socion.com" when do you EVER mention socions on your page?

And yeah, alot of ENTp's are criticizing you because they can see through your bullshit. You can't fool me, no matter how slippery your words are.

So my advice to you, GET A LIFE!

[indigoroom]

About the domain thing - the name is mine and I've bought it with complete different idea in mind and I just gave it for use. it's suitable and enough close to the subject and maybe rmc is planning some description/explanation of the word "socion" in the future.. don't know.

[Jimbean]

I apologize if I sounded over critical, I was just curious. Right now I’m beginning to be stuck in both my understanding of the subject and the development of couple ideas that I have been working on, those ideas I think have some potential. I do think there is more to the whole pattern of socionics than what we know at this moment. To a certain extent I was being critical of your idea, but I did not think you were going to react to it as if I was attacking your person.

[Angel von Himmel]

No one is jealous of you. To be honest i'm just annoyed. I'll just flat out say it, I think you're a fraud, you're overstepping your knowledge and are trying to dupe everyone into believing you are some sort of master of type theory. Your web-page is bullshit, it basically is a rip-off of socionics.com, your type descriptions are clearly plagiarized, consciously or not. You give no credit to any sources, as though you somehow overnight have a perfect understanding of everything. But you don't you're a fool and you have made yourself that way.

And what is this "Socion.com" when do you EVER mention socions on your page?

And yeah, alot of ENTp's are criticizing you because they can see through your bullshit. You can't fool me, no matter how slippery your words are.

So my advice to you, GET A LIFE!

Waddles, I use to have some respect for you, now I just out and out pity you. You are so obviously jealous it is rediculous. ... if anything on the socion.info webpage resembles socionics.com, it is because it is within the bounds of socionic's theory and should not be considered plagarism.

Keep it up waddles, you are just proving to everyone your true nature and intent. I give you my sympathies.

[Angel von Himmel]

I apologize if I sounded over critical, I was just curious. Right now I’m beginning to be stuck in both my understanding of the subject and the development of couple ideas that I have been working on, those ideas I think have some potential. I do think there is more to the whole pattern of socionics than what we know at this moment. To a certain extent I was being critical of your idea, but I did not think you were going to react to it as if I was attacking your person.

I apologize, Jimbean ... I just get tired of the constant criticism and over-react a little sometimes. I probably should not have taken that so personally.

[XcaliburGirl]

Waddles, I use to have some respect for you, now I just out and out pity you. You are so obviously jealous it is rediculous. ... if anything on the socion.info webpage resembles socionics.com, it is because it is within the bounds of socionic's theory and should not be considered plagarism.

Keep it up waddles, you are just proving to everyone your true nature and intent. I give you my sympathies.

Uh, rmcnew, I think you ought to calm down and learn to take a little criticism.
I'm not qualified to make a judgement on your work, so I'm not going to. I'm also not going to agree or disagree with those who have.
However, I don't think Waddlesworth is jealous of you. Reread your accusation, do you seriously think that just because someone says that you're wrong or inexperienced that that means they are just envious of your brilliance? Like it or not, there is someone on earth who is smarter and/or more knowledgable than you on any given subject... you'll never learn anything if you don't get down off your pedestal and look at things objectively.

[Waddlesworth]

ugh, yeah, i am jealous of you, how did you ever figure it out. I mean, your model-x, with weak functions, how great. and the fact that it doesn't work and doesn't make sense, wonderful!

And your absolutely brilliant explanation of the model-A, wow, RMC, you are just a wonderful genius.

I mean, who would have thought! there is no ID at all! Freud was wrong all along!

I mean, you're such an expert typer, as well, look at all the people you can type! you don't even need to test them! all you do is plaster their faces on some crappy website and put a four letter acronym over them!
But of course, a month ago you thought you were an ENFj, right? So i assume you have magical powers.

No, Reuben, I am not jealous of you, I think you are a pathetic fool and it is to such an extreme point that I just love pointing out your flaws, mistakes, errors, weak points. I just think you're an idiot, such an idiot that I can't even put it into words. I think you have lived a miserable pathetic life, sit in your room all day with nothing better to do than hide your loserness behind these delusions of, er, something, whatever it is. Oh, but I'm sure some day you won't be sitting alone in your virgin-ness but will be on some stage earning the nobel prize! Because by the looks of the skill and academic professionalism of your work, I can tell you're going places!

So, Reuben, i never had respect for you because I can spot a fool from a mile away. At first I kept silent, ignoring you, but you have gone through great lengths to unwittingly piss me off. I normally am not annoyed by people so much, but you're just such an idiot that i can't help but despise you.

But I'm done, really, just done with this. I just thought it was funny, you know, pointing out your poorly developed reasoning skills, but its gone on long enough, so I'm done. Have a nice day, loser wimp boy.

[Angel von Himmel]

Waddles, I use to have some respect for you, now I just out and out pity you. You are so obviously jealous it is rediculous. ... if anything on the socion.info webpage resembles socionics.com, it is because it is within the bounds of socionic's theory and should not be considered plagarism.

Keep it up waddles, you are just proving to everyone your true nature and intent. I give you my sympathies.

Uh, rmcnew, I think you ought to calm down and learn to take a little criticism.
I'm not qualified to make a judgement on your work, so I'm not going to. I'm also not going to agree or disagree with those who have.
However, I don't think Waddlesworth is jealous of you. Reread your accusation, do you seriously think that just because someone says that you're wrong or inexperienced that that means they are just envious of your brilliance? Like it or not, there is someone on earth who is smarter and/or more knowledgable than you on any given subject... you'll never learn anything if you don't get down off your pedestal and look at things objectively.

Yes, but waddlesworth's accusations are totally unfounded. I did not plagerise from any sources and I am not trying to be anything more than I am. His accusations have absolutly no truth to them whatsoever, and his reasons for objection are equally flawed. From my viewpoint, that appears to be jealousy of what I have done.

I really do not care to be seen as an authority, but for some reason waddlesworth thinks that I am, and he is obviously intentionally seeking to find reasons to justify how he feels about me and to shut me up.

Well, it is not happening. I am not shutting up, and I will continue to do what I am doing. If waddles does not like this, then tough. I suppose he can continue to tell lies about me and do whatever. I am sick of hearing about it.

[Angel von Himmel]

ugh, yeah, i am jealous of you, how did you ever figure it out. I mean, your model-x, with weak functions, how great. and the fact that it doesn't work and doesn't make sense, wonderful!

And your absolutely brilliant explanation of the model-A, wow, RMC, you are just a wonderful genius.

I mean, who would have thought! there is no ID at all! Freud was wrong all along!

I mean, you're such an expert typer, as well, look at all the people you can type! you don't even need to test them! all you do is plaster their faces on some crappy website and put a four letter acronym over them!
But of course, a month ago you thought you were an ENFj, right? So i assume you have magical powers.

No, Reuben, I am not jealous of you, I think you are a pathetic fool and it is to such an extreme point that I just love pointing out your flaws, mistakes, errors, weak points. I just think you're an idiot, such an idiot that I can't even put it into words. I think you have lived a miserable pathetic life, sit in your room all day with nothing better to do than hide your loserness behind these delusions of, er, something, whatever it is. Oh, but I'm sure some day you won't be sitting alone in your virgin-ness but will be on some stage earning the nobel prize! Because by the looks of the skill and academic professionalism of your work, I can tell you're going places!

So, Reuben, i never had respect for you because I can spot a fool from a mile away. At first I kept silent, ignoring you, but you have gone through great lengths to unwittingly piss me off. I normally am not annoyed by people so much, but you're just such an idiot that i can't help but despise you.

But I'm done, really, just done with this. I just thought it was funny, you know, pointing out your poorly developed reasoning skills, but its gone on long enough, so I'm done. Have a nice day, loser wimp boy.

That is just immature ...

[Waddlesworth]

alright, well maybe I went a little too far, but this guy is just asking for it. i'm sorry, he is.

[Angel von Himmel]

rmcnew,

I'm totally with you on this.

It sucks, I have seen them treat you the same exact way ... it is sad, someone actually does something constructive, and the vultures come to tear everything up. Bloody critics.

[Rocky]

rmcnew,

I'm totally with you on this.

It sucks, I have seen them treat you the same exact way ... it is sad, someone actually does something constructive, and the vultures come to tear everything up. Bloody critics.

That's the relation of Gamma to Alpha. :wink:

[HarryBottom]

ugh, yeah, i am jealous of you, how did you ever figure it out. I mean, your model-x, with weak functions, how great. and the fact that it doesn't work and doesn't make sense, wonderful!

And your absolutely brilliant explanation of the model-A, wow, RMC, you are just a wonderful genius.

I mean, who would have thought! there is no ID at all! Freud was wrong all along!

I mean, you're such an expert typer, as well, look at all the people you can type! you don't even need to test them! all you do is plaster their faces on some crappy website and put a four letter acronym over them!
But of course, a month ago you thought you were an ENFj, right? So i assume you have magical powers.

No, Reuben, I am not jealous of you, I think you are a pathetic fool and it is to such an extreme point that I just love pointing out your flaws, mistakes, errors, weak points. I just think you're an idiot, such an idiot that I can't even put it into words. I think you have lived a miserable pathetic life, sit in your room all day with nothing better to do than hide your loserness behind these delusions of, er, something, whatever it is. Oh, but I'm sure some day you won't be sitting alone in your virgin-ness but will be on some stage earning the nobel prize! Because by the looks of the skill and academic professionalism of your work, I can tell you're going places!

So, Reuben, i never had respect for you because I can spot a fool from a mile away. At first I kept silent, ignoring you, but you have gone through great lengths to unwittingly piss me off. I normally am not annoyed by people so much, but you're just such an idiot that i can't help but despise you.

But I'm done, really, just done with this. I just thought it was funny, you know, pointing out your poorly developed reasoning skills, but its gone on long enough, so I'm done. Have a nice day, loser wimp boy.

That was completely ridiculous and uncalled for...

[Waddlesworth]

what is this "them"? look, everyone else is giving you mature and constructive criticism, same goes for hugo.

The only person acting immaturely or treating you with disrespect is me, that's all. As for it being immature and uncalled for, true, but so is "socion.info" it is also pretty freaking immature and uncalled for.

If i weren't having so much fun with this I'd stop, but I just can't stress it enough:

Everything Rmcnew writes is complete and utter nonesense. Most of may anger is due to the fact that he never states he is an amateur on his site. If he did this I would have more respect, but it seems to me he is a delusional freak suffering from a severe psychological dissorder. He is simply unwilling to admit the FACT that he does not know what the hell he is talking about.

And I'm not INTp, my behavior right now is very ENTp.

[Angel von Himmel]

Not only was that totally demeaning, but I agree that there are possibilities that waddles is not an ENTp.

[Creepy-Wady]

yup, I must be ENFp, right? or maybe INTp? ENTj, perhaps? or maybe I'm and INFp?!? or an ENFj??!!? wow! yeah, why don't you put on an investigation, find out what i really am!

[XcaliburGirl]

I agree that there are possibilities that waddles is not an ENTp.

You say that like it's a death sentence.

Waddlesworth, don't be cruel or you'll make me sorry I agree with you (w/ your original point, anyway).

[Waddlesworth]

anything for you, babe :wink:

but I'm seriously done with this now. got better things to do.

[XcaliburGirl]

anything for you, babe :wink: