I've thought about this a lot, and I think it's probably better to have no sensing/intuition than to have no ethics/logic of some kind. Logic and ethics are so valuable! But then you would have to be rational (!!) and that would probably be so weird...
I play with mine everyday. It excites me.
Interesting, so perhaps you're only seeing the surface, and not the line of Ti thought that led me to randomly blurt out this question at the lunch table which was totally out of context. Something you may view as stupid and random to yourselves, is, to me, very relevant to what's going on in my head, and not actually a stupid question. You do not understand how Ti works, you assume my brain works just like yours, and if you asked such a question, you would think it was because you were a total retard. Fi thinks everyone thinks the same as itself.Originally Posted by Ashton
When I say, "it must be something in the water" and my friend is totally into the conversation, its because she understands where I'm coming from. I've already thought about all the other possible causes. Its not like I start dating conversations with this kind of topic, I'm searching for an answer that I feel someone else is able to provide. I'm troubleshooting. I'm not interested in whether you enjoy the taste in the water, or why you hate water. I am troubleshooting for the cause of the problem that I am to fix. "What is making my throat sore, when this clearly isn't running the course of a normal cold?"
See, the issue is, I think about things. When I get a sore throat, the first thing that comes to my mind is, "do I have a cold?" so what do I do? I run through all the analysis to see if I have a cold. Did someone cough on me recently? did I lick the floor? did I forget to wash my hands? is the weather changing seasons?... what are my symptoms? How long have I had a sore throat? oh I've had a sore throat... well, I've had a sore throat for 3 days. Usually when I have a sore throat for 1 day I have a cold on day 2 as it progresses. So something must be up. This is different from a cold, I don't feel like I have a cold, I just have a sore throat.
What are all the possible non-disease related things that cause sore throats?
Screaming? nope, haven't been doing that
sucking dicks? nope havn't been doing that
inhaling fumes in the chem lab? nope, haven't been doing that
something in that water? hmm, well the bathroom water seems to be rather rusty, I wonder if its translating over to my room. It also tastes like shit, and anytime I drink out of the faucet in my room the water doesn't go down smooth like it should.
Does that make sense? See, a Ti user would notice another Ti user asking this question and think, "Good question. I wonder if the current state of the water is such that would create sore throat conditions. Could the water right now be causing sore throats regardless of DJARENDEE's personal concerns? I don't actually care about DJARENDEE but his question is intriguing! If I help him solve it, my Fe will be satisfied in helping another Ti user solve his own problems!"
@lungs... Do you think my Ti behavior could be frustrating because I actually have no interest in your Fi value judgements or opinions on the matter? My question seems selfish and non-inclusive to yourself or others? Because, to other Ti users, it would be a stimulating puzzle to solve. To Fi users, it would be a selfish topic of conversation? Could that be it? Cuz that's the only reason I can come up with...
When I ask ENFJ's questions such as what I am asking other people, it causes them to think and arrive at their own conclusion, something they don't normally do. This is a dual seeking behavior which can be fulfilling. When I ask an ENFP these questions they just say, 'oh I don't know, but one time I met this guy who was in a similar situation who also knew another guy and..." "BITCH ANSWER MY QUESTION I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR DISNEY 'ME' WORLD!"
The differences between Ti and Fi. I believe I just figured it out.
Last edited by Azure Flame; 10-06-2012 at 01:36 AM.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
I actually thought later about coming back to this as an example of how I feel about my own polr since coming up with some silly idea about the water giving you a sore throat looks to me like ne, not ti. but i didn't want to end up in a conversation with you about functions and I still don't.
it seems selfish in a special snowflake way but I'm not always bothered by selfishness. I can be pretty selfish. so it's not really that.
I see where you are coming from now, but obviously no one here could have known those details based on your previous post.
I'm not sure whether Se or Fi is my polr function. A possible example of Fi polr:
I was at my grandfather's funeral this summer. He was a well loved guy who lived 90 years, so there were many people there (not particularly relevant, but w/e). A life time friend of my father's, who knew my grandfather as a sort of uncle figure was there and I had heard she was pretty upset about his passing (I knew this from general, benign here-say attending the funeral and such). After the casket was lowered at the cemetery, everyone was standing around as usual chatting and preparing to get back into the cars for the after-party thing. The woman I mentioned was standing in front of me and I noticed a huge spider crawling up her shoulders, so in sort of a knee-jerk reaction I brushed the spider off and squished it on the ground, almost chivalrously (in my mind at that moment). When I looked back up she was sort of frowning, and said sadly, "You didn't have to kill it." I then realized that she had been a country girl for most of her life, and probably never killed bugs if she didn't have to (not that I'm an insect murderer, but I'll squish the bastard np), AND that killing anything at a funeral is supposed to be bad luck, AND maybe she thought it was a sign from my grandfather or some superstitious crap. I felt a bit shameful and apologized to her afterwards, even though it wasn't that big of a deal.
The end is nigh
I don't think that's Fi polr. Fi polr would probably be a clear lack of shame or remorse for doing that, because we logically know there was nothing we could do to predict it, so why care?
Fi polr is probably most noticable when people tell you "You don't care" about vague things in general, usually without much. Based on my clothing choice (Black BDU's and a leather jacket), my friend looks at me and says "dude... you don't give a FUCK." It also probably comes out in an apparent lack of morals?
I still have no idea what it means, as I've never said those words to anyone else in my life. I think it means we don't care about how we present ourselves or how we come off to others? for example, ILE's might dress completely sloppy and not care what people think of them? One of my tactics against my enemies is usually public humiliation, which means I make a complete ass of myself and put on some theatrics in order to show the other person just how little power they have over me, etc, which requires a complete lack of caring what others think of me to accomplish.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effectThe Dunning-Kruger effect occurs when incompetent people not only fail to realise their incompetence, but consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. Basically - they're too stupid to know that they're stupid.
Not always. I can't locate the post easily, but I recall Blaze (xLE) talking about a time she accidentally crammed her foot in her mouth (hurting another person with what she said) and was shamed over it by someone else, which caused her to feel bad. She attributed that toPoLR. Feeling a lack of remorse at accidentally offending someone wouldn't be the sole domain of
I hesitate to label any one type as possessing or lacking morals; it's far too loaded of a term to toss around like that. We'd have to get into exactly what constitutes morality, and whether we should be upholding the morality of the individual or the group as the standard - and then, which individual or which group? And where does this morality come from? Is it a product of feeling (I don't like this; they like that) or reason (this is the most effective/rational way to respond because _____).Fi polr is probably most noticable when people tell you "You don't care" about vague things in general, usually without much. Based on my clothing choice (Black BDU's and a leather jacket), my friend looks at me and says "dude... you don't give a FUCK." It also probably comes out in an apparent lack of morals?
It is my understanding that SLEs generally do care what people think of them. They enjoy being liked and accepted (and not being "judged" for being their weird-ass, insensitive selves) and can go to great lengths to get it. Perhaps it depends on how the SLE feels toward the person or group he/she is interacting with. I can't speak for ILEs on that matter, but feel free to say something @Phthalate @FoxOnStilts. ^.^I still have no idea what it means, as I've never said those words to anyone else in my life. I think it means we don't care about how we present ourselves or how we come off to others? for example, ILE's might dress completely sloppy and not care what people think of them? One of my tactics against my enemies is usually public humiliation, which means I make a complete ass of myself and put on some theatrics in order to show the other person just how little power they have over me, etc, which requires a complete lack of caring what others think of me to accomplish.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Se-polr
A lot of it is about enforcing territory and such, which sometimes I don't know how to address. In my teen years I reacted very badly to any sort of sudden pressure put on me, questions of ownership, etc. which didn't translate very well. I wished people would be more considerate. Take my toys, hell breaks loose, I break your stuff, or destroy anything I can get my hands on. You berate too much, I flip out. Sometimes I channeled that anger toward my siblings, same age and younger. Lots of fights with siblings. I felt like there is no way to filter what is reasonable or what is not in terms of aggression. I also know that I pretty much don't care about putting a limit on it if I'm being hostile. I can go overboard, and I usually did.
The other side of having Se as my polr is that I'm very private and easy going most of the time, and I don't like being forcerful with other people, which isn't good, because some people apparently want these cues and restrictions, which they otherwise would not enforce themselves, which is the thing I hate most about all of this. I still don't know how to break this to people without making a scene. And I still overreact when I can see what kind of stupid traditional shit and ideas trigger it.
The last time something like this happened was in a family reunion. My mom comes up to me when I'm playing on PS3 with the kids and tell me to get up and eat. I nod and tell her to leave the plate on the table, cuz I'll be coming over shortly. I was still into the game. My older cousin comes up to me, hits me on the back, and tell me to get up. Now, I don't know if this is Se-plor or just me hating how stupid some people can get, but I just got up and threw the food across the room. I was speaking so fast and so loud that I didn't even know what I was saying, spent a couple of minutes saying some hurtful things, and told them all to fuck off because I'm not eating shit tonight. The funny thing is, I was tearing up the whole time (which thankfully very rarely happens). I don't like being aggressive (and I don't like the passion that comes with it) and yet I was just waiting for the smallest hint or reaction to fuck him up. I even remember reaching out for something to hit him with, until someone got in between us.
The problem is, anyone who sees me in that condition knows to not fuck with me, and yet this very rarely happens. I can't afford to react like that all time anyway. Besides my immediate family no one has ever seen me react like that or been that close to me to know what makes me tick, and even they sometimes forget it, it only happened like 2 or 3 times since middle school. I spend a lot of time to clear up my mind after such an uncomfortable situation, usually thinking of how to avoid being in such a situation in the first place, to no avail. This is where I actually start thinking about the previously mentioned stuff: rights, ownership, territory, etc. A lot of it is done to make sure I'm not infringing upon someone's rights in response, which are mostly arbitrary (at least to me).
// personal story I know, but you take what you get
// I've a few ideas about how this relates to Se-polr, but I will left most of it out, enjoy
Yes, we DO care because we want to be liked and appreciated by the ground (Fe-HA etc.) The problem is that we can't TELL when we're being too annoying or too offensive or too insensitive, so you get two types of Fi-polr (usually both present in an Fi-polr type, but varies depending on circumstance.) On one hand, you get the xLE that doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks and is an annoying asshole regardless. This usually happens when they feel like they belong to a group that appreciates them ("They like me the way I am, so fuck the rest of you; I'll say what I want!") When the xLE is less certain about themselves and want to belong to a group or have the people like them, they get neurotic, untrustworthy, and can't judge personal distance ("I don't know if I'm at the proper point in the relationship where I can just text this person and ask for coffee; do they like me?; What do I do?; I can't tell if they like me; I bet they only hang around when we're in class and don't like me outside of it; etc.) So we will spend a lot of time in that latter frame of mind seeming uninterested when, really, we just want someone to make the first move. We get paranoid and don't want to make the first move because we overthink everything and just want someone to approach us and ask us to do things. Which is why Fe-creative is so useful to us. They do invite people all the time to do things and really encourage group activities and genuinely seem to know what to say to get to know you and make you feel comfortable.
The bit about Fe-creative is a bit specific to my own experiences, but the rest is stuff I've talked about with other xLEs. Blah. Just extremely insecure and untrusting in relationships without a lot of reinforcement and people outright telling you that you belong and they like you. Without being blunt about it, we won't realize and will overthink EVEYRTHING. I do, at least.
My PoLR function is something I usually overlook because when I use it, it tends to feel painful and unnatural. If I get into a debate and the other person is usingI find it difficult to disprove what their argument is regardless if I'm right or wrong. In a debate, creative
Last edited by Raver; 10-07-2012 at 02:28 AM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I don't feel it unless someone else makes me to and then i get very upset or annoyed
Sincerely Yours,
Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.
The Rebel without a cause.
Why are the people in this forum still interested in socionics...
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
It's the only thing everyone on this forum has in common, be it appreciation for or disdain in. Without socionics as a common uniting factor, we really don't have anything much to talk about.
Right, well if an xLE cares about what they said, its because they want the person to like them (Fe hidden agenda: to be loved). Otherwise the foot in mouth cramming doesn't happen.Not always. I can't locate the post easily, but I recall Blaze (xLE) talking about a time she accidentally crammed her foot in her mouth (hurting another person with what she said) and was shamed over it by someone else, which caused her to feel bad. She attributed that to
yes, that's why I used the adjective "apparent" before the word "morals." We have morals, but they're not always readily apparent.I hesitate to label any one type as possessing or lacking morals; it's far too loaded of a term to toss around like that. We'd have to get into exactly what constitutes morality, and whether we should be upholding the morality of the individual or the group as the standard - and then, which individual or which group? And where does this morality come from? Is it a product of feeling (I don't like this; they like that) or reason (this is the most effective/rational way to respond because _____).
Fe hidden agenda, to be accepted and loved. This has nothing to do with Fi and caring about our reputation or what kind of person we are.It is my understanding that SLEs generally do care what people think of them. They enjoy being liked and accepted (and not being "judged" for being their weird-ass, insensitive selves) and can go to great lengths to get it. Perhaps it depends on how the SLE feels toward the person or group he/she is interacting with. I can't speak for ILEs on that matter, but feel free to say something @Phthalate @FoxOnStilts. ^.^
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Hmm, yes a Ti user will have every fact backed up with more facts. Its the basis behind the phylosophy of science. Every fact requires another fact to back it up, however you eventually have to stop somewhere once you feel the poll is firm enough in the concrete that it won't fall over. The only time a Ti user will back down or change their mind (they might agree just to drop the topic and avoid an argument) is if you can point out how one of the bricks of their fact-pyramid is made of cheese instead of stone. Its going to be hard to disprove a Ti user if their entire fact pyramid is full of shit to begin with. I've met a few of those, full of shit to the point that I'm kind of intimidated.My PoLR function is something I usually overlook because when I use it, it tends to feel painful and unnatural. If I get into a debate and the other person is using
I'm curious to know what you think "extensive rational thought" means? I want to understand how a Ti polr arrives at their conclusions when supposedly giving "extensive thought" on the issue?
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Well in my case, I rely oninstead to compensate in that I just try to get as much facts on the issue as I can until I feel confident that the evidence is sufficient for me to have the belief that a is b because of x. I imagine a
Last edited by Raver; 10-07-2012 at 09:12 AM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
This is true. I like how people who are interested in psyche tend to have a fucked one.
Do you consider that the best conversations here have been about socionics?
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Hmm. So you just look at enough facts until you feel its sufficiently true? I've always imagined Te as "societal logic" which means, if enough people/sources say its true, it must be true. This can be a big problem when I have 20 people suddenly against me because 1 person spread a rumor and the rest just blindly believed it.Well in my case, I rely on
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
It's kind of funny that I was pretty much going to post what @Aquagraph did, but really I think I've devolved into caring little enough about socionics that my understanding of it has sort of nebulously melted away to the point that when I actually reflect on my type or others' types I hit this sort of whimsically oddly beautiful brick wall of self imposed incompetence. On the one hand I think this is good because it allows me to let people be whoever they are without labels and the accompanying theoretical baggage about how good the relationship could possibly be or whatever. On the other it's made me see people as less of a puzzle to be solved so I tend to give less of a shit about people that don't grab my attention from the get go.
And on topic: my polr is sort of amorphous given the amorphous self typing. It may or may not be my PoLR but I detest the idea of working for profit, min/maxing everything for the best bottom line. I guess it bugs me when numbers, productivity, efficiency are religiously pursued without much thought into how they are generated by people and how sometimes stuff that's less measurable like morale, atmosphere, or bringing people together into a team are just as important. I mean you do have to keep it balanced, but it just makes me want to tear my hair out when people want to pursue one tack on something past the point of diminishing returns. Fuck it maybe I'm not even talking about my PoLR. I just have this overriding sense that everything has a place and time and if you don't run around overdoing shit all the time and quit worrying about it you'll be fine. Sorry this is sort of tangentially a work rant.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
I haven't really had any "amazing" or even "great" conversations on here at all, tbh, and I can't put a thumb on what the best conversations around here would have been.. I've had some pretty good ones in the chat box and they weren't socionics, but I'm not sure where the line is drawn between on-forum and off-forum. Even those are few and far between. Some of you guys are pretty rad. Some are okay. But most I wouldn't talk to off of this forum or independent of socionics.
I separate it based on who I talk to off-forum as being more worthwhile people to associate with, and on this forum, it's limited to like two people.
That is one way of looking at it, though I don't think the phenomenon you described has anything to do with
Last edited by Raver; 10-07-2012 at 09:12 AM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
My polr only concerns me when I fail to register the value of partaking in what hindsight eventually reveals to be a pivotally important high-five.
"I want to be accepted and loved, but I don't give a damn how people view me."
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Se Polr isn't about being perceive as weak or strong; Se itself relates to objects, the person and how they are as an object to others because of that they are able to force themselves to come off a certain way, like quiet, or meek, or forceful. Se Polr doesn't care about being held or evaluated as an object; it creates an image of what a person is; I use the same set, the same object of me to every person. So, I don't approximate who that other person is and what or how I can be to them or towards them. This allows me to be consistent and consistent as an abstract judgement. Another words, it's opposing or contradictory to Se base.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like you just described Fi. Se doesn't do any sort of judging or comparing whatsoever.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
That's fine, you just demonstrated a few posts back that you can't distinguish Te from Fe.
Fe would seek coherence with the amoebic whole of the group while Fi is more focussed on the individual. To seek to be welcomed and accepted by the group (Fe) is not the same thing as being respected on an individual level (Fi)."I want to be accepted and loved, but I don't give a damn how people view me."
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
well he validated that that's what's going on in his head. You got a better explanation? The best I can do is Fe is gathering the thoughts from many people while Te is gathering facts from many written down books. They more or less look the same in my eyes.
yes I am a little unclear as to how Te works. How does one think externally? doesn't make sense to me.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
I was thinking in terms of SeFi, but yes you're right.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's because you don't understand object-subject relations or the other concepts that form the bedrock of Jung-esque typologies like socionics. Your homework reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_%28philosophy%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_object
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_%28philosophy%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...metaphysics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular
Or stop looking for shortcuts and read this, which should be a cinch since its 632 pages were written by your supposed (pfft) dual. http://press.princeton.edu/titles/695.html
@k0rpsy...
right, so most of my thinking isn't attached to material objects. Interesting, So... in the way that Fi can only Mimic the emotions of another person, I can only mimic the logic of the actual truth?
WIIIEERRRD. ok so, what does this all mean? you simply see something for what it is? Te doesn't form its own logical conclusions?
Last edited by Azure Flame; 10-07-2012 at 08:46 AM.
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Read and digest the info I linked for you now, shoot yourself in the foot you've stuffed into your mouth with hilariously self-defeating questions later.
lol, I definely didn't write that question
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
You asinine fraud, the forum software quoted your dopey post exactly as it was written before you edited it. And your revision is an even bigger clusterfuck of contradictions and ignorance than the original was, which is only natural given that you're a mentally shallow and lazy dipshit.
yeh, reading is fo tards
Perfect<------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Loops and Tings
Ambivert / Aggressor / Trailblazer / Nomad / Alpha Caretaker / Free Spirit / Kevlar Speed Demon / Ninja
Yes, especially when that tard is an impostor of a Ti ego who's flopsweating before an audience that knows better.
Te works by gathering facts from reputable sources, and these facts can change, but having been gathered from sources it can reference to sources as well and not make speculative statements but precise statements and talk about this information. But, most importantly, Te determines the flow of action. If this were to happen, those things would be possible to happen as well; these things that happen are determined by what TeSi knows about the object at hand, or what TeNi predicts about the object or flow of event at hand. A very good example to what TeNi does with their Te is in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u37fXuoZKI
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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