How do you cope with your PoLR? Reactions and compensation.

[xyz]

Just tossing it out there to see if anyone agrees/disagrees...

I think in the case of the ISTp, a boisterous atmosphere can be tolerated quite easily, so long as its impersonal. I think the real trouble starts when gets involved - with expectations coming from others or the ISTp themselves. One example: a benign remark made in a goup setting can make me feel extremely betrayed if I have some sort of expectation about the person, thing, or event being described (whereas with some people, the more you poke at them the better they like it). The only exception is if I am extremely familiar with the group.

And on that note I have to wonder if it's not easy for the ISTp's hidden agenda to get the best of them and behave in all sorts of unpredictable ways.

Exactly. I mean, I can be perfectly fine in a setting where people are spouting all over the place, but as soon as they expect me to contribute, I either draw a blank or just say nothing. It's really quite an uncomfertable situation.

[reyn_til_runa]

One thing I've been thinking lately regarding the PoLR (not directly related to the OP but I thought I'd mention it because I'll never get around to it otherwise) is whether, by default, you interpret or translate information relating to your PoLR into information regarding your HA. Well, an example of what I'm trying to say is that I think, even with knowledge of what Fe actually is, I always seem to interpret Fe information as Fi information, if that makes sense. Like the "PoLR Hit?" thread I started some time ago; the ESFj in question was telling me (more or less) that I'd disrupted the emotional atmosphere because I visibly wasn't enjoying myself at the party, whereas I'd interpreted her words to mean that I'd upset the individual people there and therefore damaged my relationship with those people. Does that make any sense? I'm thinking also, given that I've read in the past some people saying that they find HA hits more hurtful than PoLR hits, if what I've just written is true, then maybe that's why a PoLR hit (i.e. an actual hit) is so painful - not because you perceive it as a failure of your PoLR but rather a failure of your HA. Again though, I'm not certain about any of this, I'm just throwing it out there to see if anyone else has any insights on the subject.

that seems to work. i have noticed the near impossibility of separating Fe and Fi in my mind. not that i'd want to separate them in practice (nor would this be organic), but for purposes of analysis i would. i am not sure i have the same interpretation as you, but using your scenario as a guide: i have had similiar "hits" and find that i become very insecure with myself, enough that i would be almost paralyzed to present myself to Anyone Anymore. it's a serious feeling of disability that even masks my ability to focus on the problem and try to fix it. i literally tend to sleep these kinds of feelings off, wait for them to pass, etc.

additionally, i seem to process these scenarios with an absolute sword. it is like, all at once, i feel incapable of even trying to assert myself and possibly redeem the shortcoming. i feel helpless to not repeat the "mistake" or reveal the deficit again often because i am baffled as to how i managed to reveal it to begin. i repeat in my mind how i'd arrived at the current problematic situation -- what could have prompted such inept behavior? at the same time, i determine that surely i must do this more often and not realize it. recognition of that possibility , and imagining future scenarios, usually brings about a sense of embarrassment/shame followed by anxiety and denial. it's a slow or quick process to the point of ignoring the problem. but the general sequence to that point is not knowing how to proceed, not wanting to draw attention to not knowing how to proceed, withdrawing, almost intentionally forgetting, and repeating the mistake in some form, exponentially.

[Rick]

If you really want to get a reaction from someone, tell them: "you shouldn't be so ____ (insert a description of their leading function here)"

"Place of least resistance" I think is an accurate name for the 4th function. The 1st is the "place of greatest resistance."

[Ezra]

I may just be speaking for myself, but the more I learn about the more I realize that I am actually against it (no offense and please no shit betas and alphas). I have noticed this from my dual as well with their PoLR. We live our lives in defiance of our PoLRs.

I agree. At first I just thought Fi was about getting on with others. People are beginning to show me that it's a whole new world out there.

[Joy]

I've come to think of the PoLR as the weakest link in the chain.

What I mean when I say this is that for healthy, happy people, it's really not something that gives them much trouble at all.

It's when we're stressed out, unhappy, and unhealthy that problems with our PoLR's pop up.

[strrrng]

I would agree. It just seems like it's a very vulnerable area that reacts to the slightest push and sometimes paralyzes you if it's focused on too much.

[pezzonovante]

I agree with everything that's been said. I have a bit of an unhealthy obsession with my POLR, and though building it up has made it more immune to criticism, I spent way too much time on it and it feels paralyzing at times. I've been trying to let it go but it's really hard.

It really does feel unhealthy. I think that I am a pretty well-adjusted person (at least on the outside) but I really wonder how it would feel to finally break free from it.

[Joy]

I agree with everything that's been said. I have a bit of an unhealthy obsession with my POLR, and though building it up has made it more immune to criticism, I spent way too much time on it and it feels paralyzing at times. I've been trying to let it go but it's really hard.

It really does feel unhealthy. I think that I am a pretty well-adjusted person (at least on the outside) but I really wonder how it would feel to finally break free from it.

Aside from the last month or two, that's been the story of the past year of my life or so of my life. It was pretty bad... I thought I had all of these serious medical conditions because my symptoms were so severe. And for a few years before that it was sorta bad, mostly focused on the lack of tidiness in my home and my difficulty keeping up with all of my day to day responsibilities.

I could tell you how I "escaped" if you're interested in a one on one conversation about it, pezzonovante.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I just like to think of it as some natural really awful weakness that I can't help/control and like, I need the entire community to help me get over it or something- because it's just that terribad. When people can do this, I think- we are on the road to becoming self-actualized and free from mental bondage. We are all kinda like Jesus teaching other men how to fish for themselves.

Until I hear anything better, I am pretty confident that is my PoLR. What does everybody else think? Please try to go by with the real life things I talk about, I do try to talk about my life sometimes but I just think it's kinda.... pointless to open up to strangers. Not that I'm too insecure or anything, just I don't see the point of making judgments by a few posts. And besides, I consider this more of like a public area and it's considered quite impolite to dump your issues for the world to see is it not?

But then again I grew up growing to 'group therapy' and crap like that- so I think I'm pretty versed at this stuff. =p

[Joy]

Until I hear anything better, I am pretty confident that is my PoLR. What does everybody else think? Please try to go by with the real life things I talk about

Your attitude reminds me of my IEI dad (who I've always been pretty close to, btw).

But then again I grew up growing to 'group therapy' and crap like that- so I think I'm pretty versed at this stuff. =p

So that's the problem!

[Rubicon]

What I mean when I say this is that for healthy, happy people, it's really not something that gives them much trouble at all.

It's when we're stressed out, unhappy, and unhealthy that problems with our PoLR's pop up.

That's what I've found. It doesn't bother me when I'm feeling good about myself and I'm healthy.

[Logos]

I would just like to agree with everything that has been said though I have not read any of it and am in no way contributing an original thought that is productive to this thread beyond increasing my post count.

[Rubicon]

I would just like to agree with everything that has been said though I have not read any of it and am in no way contributing an original thought that is productive to this thread beyond increasing my post count.

+100

[BLauritson]

Especially the past couple of years or so, I've noticed I've become almost paranoid about how people would react to what I say and do, to the extent that I sometimes avoid saying something completely just for fear that someone might get angry at it. I figure this might be Fe PoLR, although as with everything in life, one cannot be certain.

[xyz]

Maybe very healthy people can even come to terms with their PoLR being slapped a bit.

[strrrng]

Especially the past couple of years or so, I've noticed I've become almost paranoid about how people would react to what I say and do, to the extent that I sometimes avoid saying something completely just for fear that someone might get angry at it. I figure this might be Fe PoLR, although as with everything in life, one cannot be certain.

good example. this is specific. many times, people just talk about their social shortcomings, as if they are Fe polr. what you have described somewhat captures Fe: external energy flow (which encompasses things like reactions). Even so, there is a subtle boundary between Fe and general social skills.

[Mariano Rajoy]

Perhaps identifying what one's PoLR is, is helpful. I would suggest just meeting the PoLR head on is a good way to develop it, but this of course is coming from Se PoLR.

Not many people would agree to punch babies for self-actualization, though.

[BLauritson]

Not many people would agree to punch babies for self-actualization, though.

I'm sure if you're only Level 1, they might be worth a bit of XP..

[Blaze]

Perhaps identifying what one's PoLR is, is helpful. I would suggest just meeting the PoLR head on is a good way to develop it, but this of course is coming from Se PoLR.

this involves getting a much much better understanding of the information related to the polr and having to ask ALOT of dumb questions about said information. then practice, observation, practice, observation. kind of like bill murray in Groundhog Day. in theory this would work but in real practice it's difficult. people are extremely rigid about information related to their polr. getting de-rigidified is like trying to wake a dead corpse.

[Joy]

Maybe very healthy people can even come to terms with their PoLR being slapped a bit.

I'd go a step beyond that and say that the PoLR doesn't really affect very healthy people much. Someone with a Si PoLR can comfortably live a physically healthy lifestyle, for example.

It's just the weakest link... if you put pressure on the chain, it'll be the first thing to give. It's the area where problems will most likely pop up when there are problems, but there doesn't always have to be problems... one can be well most of the time.

[Kristiina]

Whenever something goes wrong, we first assume it was because of our PoLR. Te PoLR says, "I was too stupid to do something about it", Fi PoLR says, "They think I'm mean that's why it all happened", Fe PoLR says, "I didn't say the right things.", Si PoLR says, "they think I'm icky, that's why it all happened." etc.

This has been hinted at earlier but I don't remember this aspect being specifically discussed.

When the reasons are clear, then even I might sometimes say "I was too stupid" or "they think I'm mean" or "I didn't say the right things." but when there are options of what could have caused a disaster or whatever, I first assume it's because people don't like me physically (body language/weight/hair/attractiveness/clothes/accent etc). This can hardly be a reason for any disaster when I think about it rationally, but whenever I meet someone who isn't instantly super-friendly I assume it's because of Si reasons. ("he probably thought the lipstick was too much and thinks I'm trying too hard.")

Is it the same way for you and your PoLR?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I would say is more common for a woman to be insecure about how they look than a man tends to be. I'm not sure being insecure about how one looks is entirely PoLR related?

[Kristiina]

I would say is more common for a woman to be insecure about how they look than a man tends to be. I'm not sure being insecure about how one looks is entirely PoLR related?

If I would snap at you right now, would you assume it's because "people never really understand what you wanted to say"?

I don't want this thread to be about my quirks... I really do assume it applies to everyone and every PoLR. If you need, pretend I'm a man and a Calvin Klein model. Now do you tend to assume that your PoLR causes most of your problems?

[Rubicon]

I don't know about that. I find it's usually my Fe that gets me into trouble (or I assume it's that anyway). If I go back and try to analyse the situation I'll be like 'if only I didn't blurt that out' or 'if only I'd played it a bit more cool'.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

If I would snap at you right now, would you assume it's because "people never really understand what you wanted to say"?

Sorry .. It wasn't what I meant aha!

I don't want this thread to be about my quirks... I really do assume it applies to everyone and every PoLR. If you need, pretend I'm a man and a Calvin Klein model. Now do you tend to assume that your PoLR causes most of your problems?

lol. Well i'm a bloke but lets also pretend i'm a Calvin Klein model.

But yeah, I feel my PoLR causes a good deal of problems I may have yeah.

Infact, i'm pretty sure it does cause me probs, and even if I haven't done 'anything wrong' in an objective sense, i'm still more likely to question myself anyway in regards to the area of my PoLR anyway.

Anyway, yes! Anyone else?

[Mea]

@Cyclops: eh, I'm not sure how true it is for women to be more insecure about looks compared to men, because it's not like that for me. I mostly don't care if someone else thinks i look good or not.

however, i do get nervous when meeting new people(not saying i don't like meeting people at all), because i'm not sure if what i do or say would be considered "wrong". if it's a group of totally new people i'm with, i usually end up too quiet and i sometimes get the comment that i'm anti-social or "you should try to have some fun". then there's times i'm left totally confused as to what i did or said, usually happens with people i already know.
i think it's less of "saying the right things" feeling, more like "what? what did i do/say?" when you do/say something and someone else tells you "you shouldn't have done that in that situation" or "try to be polite when someone else is talking to you". not entirely sure, but that's few of the comments i've gotten, which left me thinking(in some situations) "in what way was i rude, that person chose to discuss that topic and i was simply giving comments"

[Snakeingrass]

I think Kristiina is saying that whenever something goes wrong for unknown reasons, as a first reaction people are concerned that their PoLR caused it.

In my case it's partially true. I blame Fe and Si about equally for my problems.

[1981slater]

Fuckin polr!!!!

Now imagine the guy in white is a polr

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LYIXN-c_4[/ame]

come on, now do the same with yours

be polr my friend

[Outside]

I don't know about that. I find it's usually my Fe that gets me into trouble (or I assume it's that anyway). If I go back and try to analyse the situation I'll be like 'if only I didn't blurt that out' or 'if only I'd played it a bit more cool'.

Yeah, me too. I always think to myself, "I shouldn't have said that" or "I didn't say the right things.", which is supposedly about Fe PoLR, but I don't really think so. I think that these personal insecurities are more situational and personal and not entirely have got to do with PoLR, which is supposedly an area of your personal insecurity.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yeah, me too. I always think to myself, "I shouldn't have said that" or "I didn't say the right things.", which is supposedly about Fe PoLR, but I don't really think so. I think that these personal insecurities are more situational and personal and not entirely have got to do with PoLR, which is supposedly an area of your personal insecurity.

Without wanting to derail the thread () I think the difference with your (I presume) cre-Fe and PoLR Fe is that you are aware of what you should have perhaps said or what you said had the 'wrong' effect. Fe PoLR would quite possibly be unaware of what it should have said, or be unaware in some instances how 'it's' words may have had the wrong effect - not realising it.

When you look at it like that, Fe PoLR has to contend with not even knowing afterwards wether what it said was correct or incorrect, or how it may have been received or whatever.

Sigh. I have such pearls of Wisdom

[xyz]

I usually worry that im too boring for people, or that I should show more emotion.

If I worry at all

[Mea]

I usually worry that im too boring for people, or that I should show more emotion.

If I worry at all

but i think it's safe to say, we learn to do that over time? but it's something we're unsure about?

i've never really thought much about "blame it on the PoLR" before i knew about socionics, but i guess it's safe to say, it's a reason?

[ScarlettLux]

Holy crap, I relate to that SO much Kriistina. I really do think Si PoLR has always fit me the most. I am NEVER comfortable in my own skin, as so many Si ego types seem to be... I envy that so much. I blame everything on it too, have all these neurotic thoughts about not looking good enough, or maybe appearing like I'm trying too hard.. etc. etc. It makes me seem very shallow, but I'm not really. I don't judge others - I only ever think they judge me!

I also have severe hypochondria and have almost no clue how to go about taking care of my body... I always overdo it.

[Brilliand]

I do worry about - but I usually end up blaming it on lack of ("if only I could be sure that it wouldn't be awkward" and "if only I would get enough sleep"). I think we can blame any element, depending on how important we think it is in the situation.

[xyz]

Holy crap, I relate to that SO much Kriistina. I really do think Si PoLR has always fit me the most. I am NEVER comfortable in my own skin, as so many Si ego types seem to be... I envy that so much. I blame everything on it too, have all these neurotic thoughts about not looking good enough, or maybe appearing like I'm trying too hard.. etc. etc. It makes me seem very shallow, but I'm not really. I don't judge others - I only ever think they judge me!

I also have severe hypochondria and have almost no clue how to go about taking care of my body... I always overdo it.

Geez! Get a hammock.

[Brilliand]

Geez! Get a hammock.

How many hours a day should she spend in it?

[xyz]

Exactly 2 hours total, no more, no less.

However, you have the option of doing it continuously or in intervals.

[Kristiina]

Geez! Get a hammock.

haha, would a hammock solve all of my problems as well? That would be nice.

[Kristiina]

PoLR has 3 aspects to it. Whenever you're doing something that needs PoLR expertise,

1) you are able to get just as good results as anyone else (including that-function ego-types). You might even get better results depending on how much you've spent on learning the skill.
2) you do it differently than that-function ego-types. Ego types wing it, whereas you do what you know will work. You don't experiment much and you get a reliable result most of the time. Fe-PoLR types often behave waaay more polite and nice than I do, but I am sure they don't constantly observe body language and facial expressions to decide how to behave.
3) you lack all confidence in what you have accomplished. You take all the advice that you are given, you magnify any critizism, you devalue all compliments...

Everyone who's seen a picture of Scarlettlux knows she should have no reason to feel uneasy about her appearance because she's very pretty. Confidence and ability are not correlated at all, at least when it comes to PoLR.

[Rubicon]

Without wanting to derail the thread () I think the difference with your (I presume) cre-Fe and PoLR Fe is that you are aware of what you should have perhaps said or what you said had the 'wrong' effect. Fe PoLR would quite possibly be unaware of what it should have said, or be unaware in some instances how 'it's' words may have had the wrong effect - not realising it.

When you look at it like that, Fe PoLR has to contend with not even knowing afterwards wether what it said was correct or incorrect, or how it may have been received or whatever.

Good point. I hadn't thought of it like that.