Illusionary/Mirage Relations: Stories and Experiences

[porntips]

I just came out of a 6 1/2 month relationship with an INFp...

- "growing laziness"

This was really weird: after a few hours of interaction I'd find myself unable to keep my eyes open while looking at her, I'd have to look away to feel comfortable, and i'd begin to feel trapped. It was like having a bright light in my face. One time it went away after I talked to her about some journal articles i'd read the night before that had made me excited. So I think this must be a symptom of leading function suppression - I've found the same thing with two ESFp's only with them it happened immediately.
However she, (the infp) couldn't empathize with this feeling so it may be just me.

- dissatisfied dual-seeking functions

The few times in the relationship when i felt completely fulfilled were immediately after she'd done this thing where we'd be facing each other and she'd slowly, tenderly, cover my cheeks with kisses with this look of contentment on her face. I spent a lot of time feeling starved of affection, wishing she'd be more hedonistic. It annoyed me she was usually too anxious about uni to allow us the time required for to get in the right mood to make sex. "I'm not aroused right now and i don't want to let myself be aroused" - i never understood this. From her point of view - she wanted me to be confident and to not be needy - when I felt starved of affection she could see it and it would make it impossible for her to feel affectionate. A downward spiral of mutual dissatisfaction.

[Expat]

"I'm not aroused right now and i don't want to let myself be aroused" - i never understood this. From her point of view - she wanted me to be confident and to not be needy - when I felt starved of affection she could see it and it would make it impossible for her to feel affectionate. A downward spiral of mutual dissatisfaction.

Just consider how an ESTp would have reacted.

[Blaze]

"I'm not aroused right now and i don't want to let myself be aroused" - i never understood this. From her point of view - she wanted me to be confident and to not be needy - when I felt starved of affection she could see it and it would make it impossible for her to feel affectionate. A downward spiral of mutual dissatisfaction.

Just consider how an ESTp would have reacted.

estp would have, er, moved forward, one way or another....lol

[Khamelion]

... Have in common? I'm not sure what that follow up question means..

What qualities about your ENTp partner do you think you have in common?

We both seem to think we are more right than the other at times.

We like to do a lot of the same things, we have similar taste in other people.

I suppose we both have a "be proactive so we can relax" attitude.



@diamond8- the sexy kind

and whats with all the deleted posts from j00?

[Megan]

I created this topic so that we can share our experiences with illusionary relationships and in response to blaze in another thread which I did not want to take off topic

I too have seen relations of supervision work better than predicted, even with ISFj/ESTp.
I should start a topic on illusionary relations. What I have seen of them is gradually leading me to think they are silently destructive especially in the way of personal ambition.

i have actually noticed this, too. i hope you start this topic as i've observed about the same thing. in this way, i sort of think they are some of the worst relations around.

wow. i totally disagree. i'm in an illusionary relationship right now and it is going pretty well. but yeah start a topic.

@blaze
I find it kind of hard to exactly explain what I have observed with these relations especially the ones that have been going on for quite a while and particulary one between an ISTj and an ENTj that I have observed quite closely but will not discuss in this post.
In illusionary relations, the parties seem relaxed almost to the point of being "asleep" around each other a lot of times and no matter how hard they try to assist each other with outside goals it is like the assistance doesn't go very far. I think in illusionary relations it can seem like the people struggle to be really ambitious about things outside the relationship and even about the relationship itself. It is not that their outward ambition dies after a while, it is more like there is a struggle to keep it alive and move towards their goals. They both want to move forward with their goals but they are somewhat stuck and just can't really move effectively... especially the valuing person when involved with a none valuing person. In simple terms, outside provides a kind of strong drive or movement for the people in whom it is weak yet valued. In the same people, provides something more like a feeling of stagnation, retreat, decline etc eventually.

[Megan]

I have not closely observed any illusionary relationship between an INFp and ENTp like the one you are in, perhaps the sort of relaxed go with the flow nature of some INFps and the values of ENFps may make them have a different quality to say one where two valuing types are involved. I suspect that even though an INFp may enjoy the relaxed nature that illusionary relations can have, they really do need strong to really get them moving which is actually what they deeply need rather than something that resembles type relaxation which they really like. Illusionary relations seem to be not bad for certain types of friendships though and in general the illusionary relationships that I have observed have been going on for a long time despite the under current of vague dissatisfaction and gradual decline in the ambition/growth of the people involved. People in illusionary relations regardless of the types involved to me always seem mentally and psychically frozen(illusionary relations are not usually as obviously antagonistic, tiring and aggravating as some other relations and the parties usually truly admire aspects of each other, 2nd function related) their dreams and progress are passing them by while they are in a half unaware immobilized "relax" state depending on the types involved. They give me the impression of being destructive to the partners in a stealthy way which is not really easy for them to perceive or fight against though in ISXj/ENXj ones, the parties are often more critical of each other and more overt with their expectations.

If the illusionary relationship is working for you then that is indeed great. If you are happy and satisfied with it then perhaps that is all that truly matters. I think you mentioned somewhere about once being in an illusionary relationship with an overly relaxed weeding smoking INFp?

[Blaze]

yes i've had 2 illusionary relationships. the first one the infp was a weed smoker....i ended it after 3 years mostly due to his lack of desire to get involved in my recovery or to do anything about smoking weed. it is really hard for me to analyze this relationship from a socionic perspective though since i was an active alcoholic through out most of it, complete with the worst behavior that an entp demonstrates and he was lazy lazy lazy. but we still achieved goals...got our own apartments and got our careers launched after college. he responded well to Ti logic and i to Fe. i think he really wanted to stay friends but the new man, estp, who i eventually married, would not have that, soooo.....

i'd have to say that a big part of the attraction to estp though was that his energy level was more similar to mine. and we did achieve a lot of things together. constantly were working on external goals. in fact, that's pretty much the whole relationship. i can see why they call this relation business because we could get a lot done together. rick's description of extravert-extravert relationships fits to a T for my marriage.

with the current infp man, his energy is lower, but he gets stuff done. right now we do not live together, so we are on a track of doing our own individual work....mine is mostly "inside" work right now, my feelings, my inner life etc. his work is mostly "outside work" taking care of outside responsibilities and goals. we are both motivated to become stronger so we can bring more to the relationship and to life. i do not know if we will make a permanent commitment or not, since i want to get more time away from my divorce before i make up my mind.

but at our age it's different. our careers are well established and we have a lot to bring forward from our married lives, materially and as far as relationships with people. so we don't have to do as much "building" although there is some building to do, saving and such. mostly it's planning for retirement and getting older.

the other thing i've noticed is that we've both developed our dual seeking functions pretty well. this causes me to wonder how much i need it from others. i've concluded that the only time i really need it is when i'm highly irritated and stressed out, usually with some Fi related fuck up of my own. but now i know this and i can directly ask for assistance. for him, good logic and persuasion seems to do the trick most times. he knows what he needs to do to get going.

but i do see your points about Se dual seeking....i think people who seek this really need this to activate from time to time, so the infp in this case would be more dissatisfied than the entp, since just being around an IP is pretty relaxing even if they don't have Si in the ego block. there is a gender angle to this, also, in that most women have to do the Si thing to some extent. for myself there has never been anyone in my life giving me the Si. my mother had it as a creative function, but what with an infj, entp, enfp, and intj in our family, there simply wasn't enough to go around. so my point is that i am a pretty independent person, not very "infantile" at all.

but then again, i lived with my estp for 15 years, so i sort of think that his Se rubbed off on me.

then again, this whole post could be completely self serving, so what do i know? i'd like to hear from other people about illusionary relations, too.

[discojoe]

I find ENFjs attractive from a distance, mainly because they tend to be very perceptive, which I find extremely appealing. Likewise, they always seem attracted to me because of my assertiveness and quiet confidence. Upon closer inspection, however, ENFjs simply drain my energy and always seem to want something I can't give them.

This is not to say it can't work, as my experiences have all been the bad examples of this relation, but if you want to really stimulate each other you better start learning your role function.

[FDG]

I feel like ISTjs are expecting something from me. I don't know what. They want me to chat a lot? I don't have a clue. But they kind of "like" me in a way I sometimes can find creepy (the males). It's okay if the females like me, I enjoy the attention.

In any case with my father the Te Ti difference is obvious. Whenever we are doing something practical, he asks me many times "why" "why" "why" in order to form a system in his head. Whereas I personally know the workings of objects, but I don't necessarily know the reason as to why they work that way, nor I am willing to go find them. We complement each other on typical Ni-Se things, though. Also being double emotion-creating doesn't work well: I rather prefer to be the one doing most of the talking and the silly one, and given that he has the same preference, we end up not exchanging ever any relevant information

[implied]

@blaze
I find it kind of hard to exactly explain what I have observed with these relations especially the ones that have been going on for quite a while and particulary one between an ISTj and an ENTj that I have observed quite closely but will not discuss in this post.
In illusionary relations, the parties seem relaxed almost to the point of being "asleep" around each other a lot of times and no matter how hard they try to assist each other with outside goals it is like the assistance doesn't go very far. I think in illusionary relations it can seem like the people struggle to be really ambitious about things outside the relationship and even about the relationship itself. It is not that their outward ambition dies after a while, it is more like there is a struggle to keep it alive and move towards their goals. They both want to move forward with their goals but they are somewhat stuck and just can't really move effectively... especially the valuing person when involved with a none valuing person. In simple terms, outside provides a kind of strong drive or movement for the people in whom it is weak yet valued. In the same people, provides something more like a feeling of stagnation, retreat, decline etc eventually.

megan, my observations are nearly identical to yours. i've witnessed this with an ENTp/INFp couple. although what i've witnessed is nothing like blaze has described, there seems to be a real slowdown in terms of what the couple actually gets done. it seems as if it's too relaxing for both of them, so from my pov both of them have sort of "stalled" and gone backwards in terms of growth, goals, etc, during the relationship.

[Ms. Kensington]

it probably depends on the pair, but in my experience a semi dual relation is more energizing than an illusionary one. I do feel comfortable with ESTjs but just feel no interest in what they are interested in.. if i find things they do interesting it's not usually why the ESTjs are doing these things. It's what I've added myself.. in any case there is a feeling of disconnect that makes you feel like that partner is just dead weight.

[FDG]

Although I don't get why people think a relationship is going well only when both people are striving towards more and more external goals. Maybe they just prefer to relax at that point in the lives? What would the problem be? Not everybody puts success as a priority. Luckily.

[Blaze]

Although I don't get why people think a relationship is going well only when both people are striving towards more and more external goals. Maybe they just prefer to relax at that point in the lives? What would the problem be? Not everybody puts success as a priority. Luckily.

exactly. the outside stuff isn't everything although it is important when you are trying to get your career going and have children and buy a home and such. case in point is the lookalike relation, where extraverts especially focus on the outside stuff at the expense of the internal health and connectedness of the relationship. the older i get the more i see the outside stuff, while important, is definitely not everything. you need a good relaxed supportive internal balance also. all that striving for material and external goals gets tiring...and for what? so you can keep up with the joneses in your community? just being happy and chillin like an older couple sitting on a porch is where it's really at. which is part of what people may be seeing in illusionary relationships they are observing but not in.

it's also hard to know what is really going on in someone else's relationship, too, unless you live with them (like your parents). even if one partner in the couple tells you, you're still only getting half the story.

i'd like to hear more from people who have been in illusionary relationships, not just observed them.

[FDG]

you need a good relaxed supportive internal balance also. all that striving for material and external goals gets tiring...and for what? so you can keep up with the joneses in your community? just being happy and chillin like an older couple sitting on a porch is where it's really at. which is part of what people may be seeing in illusionary relationships they are observing but not in.

I always see couples that are together when they're old as being more happy than when they're in their 30s striving to get up the social ladder. Economists and social scientists tested multiple times happiness over lifespan and the conclusion was always that it's V shaped with an minimum at around 40, and peaks in childhood and as elders.

Of course a balance is better since you're not able to enjoy the calmness if you haven't gone through rougher periods. But yeah, measuring happiness only over external sources is clearly stupid. This said, duality should allow for presence of both things together (the ability to accomplish external goals as well as moments of relaxation).

[Creepy-female]

.

[munenori2]

It's probably not very helpful, but ESFj's always make me feel like I'm being hosted/taken care off. They seem to cater to my needs. However, my experience is just with relations of mine, so in the naturally limited contact I've had, it's really just seemed like awesome times (i.e. playing board games, guitar hero, telling/listening to jokes, eating fantastic meals, etc).

Other than that, I agree that it seems like we speak the same language...it's just our focuses feel just slightly askew.

[Blaze]

i have now had two illusionary relationships. the first one was when i was about 24 years old and the other is now. the first one fits the description of illusionary pretty well. the one i'm in now seems closer to being a duality relation but not quite, but 100% better than the first illusionary. i have to go to work though so i'll comment more later.

[FDG]

Good relationship for friendships. No problem at all when being one-on-one, but me and ISTjs are attracted to very different social groups.

[Blaze]

interesting. the wikipedia is wrong since with illusionary your dual seeking is the other person's role function; it's not in their id block. and actually this fits perfectly....each partner's dual seeking is not quite adequately met by the other person, but it's not like it's not there at all or anything.

i'm still not 100% on whether i am an ILE or an SLE or what. like i could be an ILE and i've developed Se/Si really well from being with my ex for so long or i could be an SLE who was raised in an Ne valuing family so i developed Ne more. i'm really not sure but the main thing is that i do have a pretty forceful personality and i also have a very active Ne imagination so i kind of think i'm strongest in Ti and i kind of straddle the fence between Se and Ne. and i feel comfortable with and attracted to both alphas and betas.

ok so first possible illusionary relation:
i was incredibly drawn to this guy he just touched me somehow. we had great sex. and had a pretty good similar rhythm of life but just to give an example, the thing that ESTP is complaining about in her thread is what i would have complained about when i was 24, very push pull and a lack of certainty. he was pretty lazy and would be very flaky about making plans and getting together. this made me feel very insecure in the relationship. but the problem was actually also external...yet related to our personalities. he was a weed smoker and i was an active alcoholic at the time. knowing what i know today i would say that his weed smoking was kind of related to his HA/Ti - it made him feel creative and like he understood things better or something. plus it made him even more lazy than he already was Ni style. my drinking was a direct connection to my HA/Fe -the need to be kind of emotionally free, reduce anxiety, and undo the negative consequences of Fi polr. but anyway, then i got clean and he would not get clean nor would he take my recovery from alcohol seriously or get involved in it. but all this was further complicated by the fact that he was definitely not ready to make a commitment to marriage or even moving in together. i honestly don't think i was either, so we were kinda like, boyfriend and girlfriend and we would help each other out and hang out but we were not meeting one another's needs very well. not that we really understood what our needs were or anything. it was very hard to break up with him but i eventually did because he couldn't break up. but most of my dissatisfaction with this relationship was with his flakiness and laziness. i think he'd get ticked off by me trying to push for a better status of relationship. but this behavior of mine had to do with my insecurity with myself not really him. but anyway the thing that totally trumps socionics in the relationship is the substance abuse, it kind of covered everything else. if it were not for that, i bet we would have done fine together. we were together about 3 years.

at this point i met my SLE ex, who at the time very much looked and acted much more emotional and introverted than he really was, but who at the same time had tons of drive, motivation, and energy. but anyway, my ex was also in recovery, and we totally bonded and fell head over heels immediately. his energy was like a tonic; it matched mine. we'd do do do stuff together. rarely would disagree about what to do and we would both try anything. it was so great after the laziness of the first IEI. we moved in together really fast too (big mistake).

ok so second possible illusionary relationship with infpman is totally different i think for a few different reasons. first, no substance abuse. second, we're in our 40's and we both have developed our weaker functions pretty well. third, both have a failed marriage which makes us highly motivated to practice good relationship skills and not make stupid mistakes again. fourth we ask for what we need directly. we know how to manage each other. and we have a great mutual spiritual commitment. over the last year, we've been running a series of gauntlets together. they involved whether to see other people, how much time to spend together, how we expected to be treated, what was acceptable or unacceptable behavior in the relationship, who is in charge of what, how we will resolve disagreements. a lot of times we were not sure we would get through these things. the relationship seemed at intervals to be on the brink of not working. but yet every single time we evolved to a higher level and figured out that we wanted the same things and were able to resolve stuff. he would typically withdraw at these times and i would typically become more forceful. and we would both be right. and now we are feeling incredibly close and deep.

at times i want a little bit more demonstration of caring and concern from him...but he usually responds if i ask. at time he wants a little bit more space to himself....if he asks, i usually let him have it. and it's like ok.

but anyway i am not an infp or anything but i have had relationships with them so i figure i can post. sorry for the super long post hopefully it's not too overwhelming.

[thePirate]

it seems to be like a good relation, all attractive and appealing. it is just me or are these relationships excruciating? it's been defined as harmless and peaceful; gotdamnit what the fuck. mirage sank me into an abyss of depression for about a year. MIRAGE HAS ME PULLING AT MY HAIR WTFING EVERY 15 MINUTES. Can someone clarify how this is better than supervision?

[Exodus]

Well, it is complementary on the 2nd functions. Sorry it sucks so bad...

[Morcheeba]

I have always found mirage relations to be strange. They seem interesting in some respects, but I always have the tendency to want to change the person. I get annoyed with their sweetness and narrowmindedness. Also, their dual seeking function is fairly boring to me; and I typically find these types of people in administrative jobs which to me equals boring.

[JuJu]

Mirage relations require a lot of understanding and (in my experience) upkeep... There are a lot of minor misunderstandings.

Things will be going well with a mirage relation, and then--suddenly, in my case EIE-ESI--one of us will say something that will totally dumbfound the other... Prompting something akin to "WTF?!"

The benefit to these relations is that conflicts do not last long at all, and neither party holds a grudge.

Frankly, I like these relations as much as semi-duality, if not more. (In my case, I've found that I get along with ESIs, generally, less well than I get along with LIIs; however, I tend to be more attracted to them.)

[pianosinger]

Despite this significant underlying compatibility, prolonged interaction leads to a dissatisfaction with everything about the relationship that is related to the other's leading function. Partners unconsciously expect the other person to accept their general sentiments about things and build upon them, but illusionary partners inevitably present their own completely independent worldviews that are somewhat at odds with the other's. This is because if one partner's leading function is , the other's is ; or, if one's is , the other's is , and so on.

The above is from wikisocion. Apparently, my husband and I are in this type of relationship. Though, we've been married for 5 years so far with very few of the negative aspects (and when we do argue, as the description says, it is very short-lived). Anyway, I had a thought about the above paragraph, and I'm curious for input.

Hopefully, I can make my thoughts understood here...

My leading function is Ne, and my husband's leading function is Ni. According to the above, this should supposedly lead to conflict. And I can see how in some illusionary relationships, this would be the case, such as between Se and Si especially. But, it seems like in the case of Ne vs. Ni it would more likely bring about personal growth and development between partners, with very little conflict. idk if I'm expressing myself well...

Basically, I guess, of all the Xi/Xe dichotomies, it seems to me like Ne/Ni would be the least conflicting and be rather more cooperative. I know I indulge in both rather regularly myself.

Anyway, I'm eager for others' thoughts on this...

[golden]

This topic interests me, because I explored in another thread the possibility that my son is ILE (ENTp), and I'm IEI (INFp). So that also would be a case of leading and leading in an illusionary relation. But to better understand how your relationship works, I think it needs to be considered function by function.

In my case, if my son is ILE, I don't see the leading functions as the key. He does his thing and I do my thing; we sort of do them side by side, pursuing our independent agendas, projects, interests. Because I'm the parent, I greatly support his interests and his projects; I find that delightful! I don't interfere with it, it always surprises me, and yet I feel that as he grows older, and his leading-function activities become more sophisticated, I won't really have the tools to give him all he needs in that area.

Consider as a separate matter the super-ego block. If my son is ILE, he needs Si. I suck at Si, bigtime. That's not to say I don't give him that; I've given him tons and tons of it, but it isn't an easy thing for me to do. It absolutely tires me out. We connect better with me giving him (but not too much; sometimes I get out of hand on that).

We do well meeting on the front instead--his creative function, my HA.

To me, the crux of the matter in examining him as a possible ILE is that I need and he needs . It seems to describe our difficulties pretty well.

As for having illusionary/mirage in a romantic partnership, my first bf (years-long relationship) was ILE. Quite different from being in a parent/child dynamic. What was similar: we each pursued our separate projects and interests and were interested in what the other was doing but could not apply direct help and support in that.

What was specific to that relationship: He had a big circle of alpha friends, and I was too "heavy" and intense and weird for them. To me, they seemed very immature and silly, although they were mostly several years older than I was. My sexual style didn't match up with his, although sex was technically ok for a few years. I was probably seeking from him, and I know he found that tiring. He just wanted a sort of light, reassuring coziness, and I couldn't offer that. As the relationship devolved, he ended up using Te to attack me. I found him to be manipulative and insensitive with others (Fi problem)--after we began disappointing each other, we gradually went PoLR versus PoLR, it nearly turned us into enemies, and the whole thing sank pretty quickly once we got into that mode.

[DirectorAbbie]

Illusionary relationships are pleasant. I like letting my LII brother take care of the , and I get to do the . I like his and he likes my . We make productive parners.

I would think an illusionary marriage would be kinda boring. The second function is used to calm, and the sixth function is calming. Without the rejuvination of the first and fifth functions corresponding, I would suspect that your relationship is calm and uneventful.

[pianosinger]

I would suspect that your relationship is calm and uneventful.

Pretty much. I manage to shake things up sometimes, though Though with the kids around, it's not nearly as calm and uneventful as we would sometimes like...

[Morcheeba]

I think that illusionaries would get along much better if they are both creative subtypes. For instance, my brother is an ISFj- and I'm an ENFj-, this makes for much better compatibility. When you are a creatvie subtype, you tend to value and want to use your creative function much more, and your illusionary needs just that. I know that I can get a certain degree of from him, and in return I can use fairly well. So I really don't agree with the notion of these relations being difficult and tiring.

[Marie84]

Because your base function is where your priorities lay it's also what you want to be appreciated for. Illusionaries, though, just see you using your base and go "meh, whatever" since it gets in the way of their own bases priorities; you're basically both putting your heart out there for nothing.
There's also the matter of having to attempt to use the role, as Golden mentioned, which can be frustrating, since you have to "think" about it a lot and than wonder if you're doing it right
I think this may be why it's said that Illusionary relations are more action and less talk, since there's so much energy being wasted on attempting the Role matched with a constant deflated reception to the Base as well as annoyance with all the Ignoring in your face that communication grows tiresome

From a more personal perspective, I instinctively see ESE's as LSE's who're "being annoying ", so there's still a level of attraction and comfort there, they have the energy and initiative but not quite what I'm looking for

[Blaze]

the main problem in ILE/IEI illusionary relationship is the overall lack of sensing, not the OD of intuition. both people are a little bit spacey and don't like to pay attention to details and real world matters. each wants the other to handle the details and more often than not it will fall on ILE since they are the extravert. one to one, this drills down further to Se vs Si expectations that don't get met. overall there's a lack of beefiness. polarity is also at issue...both people are either positive or negative, so the electric current goes zzzzzzzt. what's left over is lighter and pleasant though. the Ne vs Ni is not all that big of a deal, i agree with pianosinger.

the social groups are also different like golden says. in actual relationship practice, this makes a difference in terms of how you want to spend your time as a couple and who are you willing to spend your time with and what do you find fun vs what does the person enjoy.

me and infpman are creative subs so we get along probably better than the average illusionary couple. plus we are middle aged and past our divorces so we tolerate things and lower our expectations. we both understand socionics so we talk about Se vs Si expectations all the time and don't pick on each other about it. we try to appreciate what we have and be grateful for that. sometimes he has to go off and put himself at risk of getting in trouble which i read as Se seeking. sometimes i have to go get a manipedi or a massage....or be around my ESE and ILE daughters who share my quadra values.

[Blaze]

Because your base function is where your priorities lay it's also what you want to be appreciated for. Illusionaries, though, just see you using your base and go "meh, whatever" since it gets in the way of their own bases priorities; you're basically both putting your heart out there for nothing.
There's also the matter of having to attempt to use the role, as Golden mentioned, which can be frustrating, since you have to "think" about it a lot and than wonder if you're doing it right
I think this may be why it's said that Illusionary relations are more action and less talk, since there's so much energy being wasted on attempting the Role matched with a constant deflated reception to the Base as well as annoyance with all the Ignoring in your face that communication grows tiresome

From a more personal perspective, I instinctively see ESE's as LSE's who're "being annoying ", so there's still a level of attraction and comfort there, they have the energy and initiative but not quite what I'm looking for

i think it has to do with subtype. if you are base subtype your illusionary might annoy you more than if you are creative sub type.

to me illusionary is more talk and less action. i find what infpman talks about very interesting. the Ni probability timeline and forecasting is fun to think about. i think he enjoys hearing about Ne possibilities, too. putting it into action is what the problem is...since for irrationals we are steered by our base perceptions. so we end up talking a lot about a course of action before we do it. it involves putting more time into understanding and more negotiation than if we were with our duals.

the logic-ethic axis is quite efficient though.

I am not sure exactly why you think Ne/Ni would be a better illusionary pair than Se/Si? Are you saying that partners with leading N elements can use this to communicate and understand each other?

i've seen SLE-SEI illusionary couples also. i think they find each other quite often. their planning and strategy seems off kilter to me. it's like they can't think strategically or something. so they end up in these predicaments that me and infpman could see coming from about a mile away. but they get out of it...it's not a disaster or anything.

[redbaron]

i've seen SLE-SEI illusionary couples also. i think they find each other quite often. their planning and strategy seems off kilter to me. it's like they can't think strategically or something. so they end up in these predicaments that me and infpman could see coming from about a mile away. but they get out of it...it's not a disaster or anything.

I know a very happily married SLE-SEI couple. Anyway, gosh I think I could make ANY relation work for five years. No offense, but five years is nothing. I've been with my supervisee for 15 years. There's something to be said for determination to make it work. Things do fall apart, though, eventually. At least with the worse relations. I can see illusionary going the distance though. It all depends on what you're willing to live with and how you see marriage. If you need to be a perfect fit, some of these relations aren't gonna cut it. But I know people who see marriage as more of an external financial arrangement and/or a companionship thing. In that case, hell, just get what you need from friends and other relationships and let the marriage be what it is.

[Marie84]

i think it has to do with subtype. if you are base subtype your illusionary might annoy you more than if you are creative sub type.

Possibly

[Suz]

i think it has to do with subtype. if you are base subtype your illusionary might annoy you more than if you are creative sub type.

I agree, i was just going to make a post addressing this.

I do think that illusionary compatibility tends to be better when each is the creative subtype. I know for myself that I tend to prefer ILI (my illusionary) to SEI (my semi-dual). I tend to notice Fe vs Fi very clearly and i care a lot about that difference, as well as Te vs Ti. Those are very important to me.

The disgruntlement comes when the ILI pays little attention to Si needs, and that's when I feel like the ILI is being self-centered or not caring or something like that. Sometimes i can look past that, depending on the Si-transgression, and what kind of person the ILI is in my opinion.

[Nowisthetime]

My leading function is Ne, and my husband's leading function is Ni. According to the above, this should supposedly lead to conflict. And I can see how in some illusionary relationships, this would be the case, such as between Se and Si especially. But, it seems like in the case of Ne vs. Ni it would more likely bring about personal growth and development between partners, with very little conflict. idk if I'm expressing myself well...

Basically, I guess, of all the Xi/Xe dichotomies, it seems to me like Ne/Ni would be the least conflicting and be rather more cooperative. I know I indulge in both rather regularly myself.

I am not sure exactly why you think Ne/Ni would be a better illusionary pair than Se/Si? Are you saying that partners with leading N elements can use this to communicate and understand each other?

Maybe they can, but that would IMO be outside the scope of socionics intertype relations. Deep down you always value your partners role function more than the leading, and this causes irritation and uncomfortable adjustment.

What about this metaphor? You invite someone for dinner. You put a lot of effort to make a very special dish, that you hope you're partner will like. When he arrives it turns out that he is allergic to the food. So despite the fact that the food is tasty and beautifully presented he just can't eat it, or maybe he can but he will get some skin issues or whatever. Still, he is impressed with your abilities, and thanks you for trying, and he becomes very attracted to you, but the fact remains, it wasn't the right food for him.

[pianosinger]

Okay, so DH and I have agreed now, that he is going to start taking on more of the disciplining when he's home, while I focus more on the housekeeping (which I'd rather be doing); and when he's not home, I'm taking a new approach to discipline-- Ne-style!

So, less pressure on our Role functions and more encouragement to indulge in Suggestive...And where necessary, more equal sharing of the duties that we'd rather not be doing.

Better, right?

[Krig the Viking]

Anyone have any personal experience with Mirage in a romantic relationship, either yourself or people you know? The descriptions I've read vary somewhat, but tend to describe Mirage as a pleasant if somewhat unfulfilling relationship. But they don't typically talk specifically about how romantic Mirage relationships play out, which I'm curious about, since romantic relationships tend to demand greater intimacy than regular friendships, which it seems to me Mirage would be ill-equipped to provide.

A friend of mine has recently begun what I think is a Mirage relationship, hence my curiosity. I work with an LSE woman, and as much as I enjoy her company and friendship, I can't for the life of me imagine a relationship like that working as a long-term romantic relationship. The fundamental difference in priorities is just too great. However, that's just a sample size of one, so I thought I'd see how it's been for other people.

[Exodus]

My parents (divorced) are LIE/LSI. Their relationship is pretty bad (although they are both pretty temperamental people, which is another factor). LII/LSE would probably be less conflict-oriented, but I personally have never felt very close with an LSE. Mirage is kind of a superficial relationship.

[Krig the Viking]

My parents (divorced) are LIE/LSI. Their relationship is pretty bad (although they are both pretty temperamental people, which is another factor). LII/LSE would probably be less conflict-oriented, but I personally have never felt very close with an LSE. Mirage is kind of a superficial relationship.

Yeah, my LSE co-worker and I get along quite well, joking around and complaining about our lazy co-workers, and it's generally a pretty secure and "safe" relationship. But when it comes to discussing more serious personal issues, it's like trying to bring the north poles of two magnets together -- we both want to go in completely different directions with the conversation, and have completely opposite advice and solutions to personal problems. I'd imagine neither one of us would feel very "supported" in a romantic relationship, despite feeling largely sympathetic toward one another.

Is that something like what happened with your parents, or were the sources of conflict different from that?

[Exodus]

Yeah, my LSE co-worker and I get along quite well, joking around and complaining about our lazy co-workers, and it's generally a pretty secure and "safe" relationship. But when it comes to discussing more serious personal issues, it's like trying to bring the north poles of two magnets together -- we both want to go in completely different directions with the conversation, and have completely opposite advice and solutions to personal problems. I'd imagine neither one of us would feel very "supported" in a romantic relationship, despite feeling largely sympathetic toward one another.

Is that something like what happened with your parents, or were the sources of conflict different from that?

I think all of that applies, yes. Very different approaches due to vs . I can't really remember how the / complementation played out. I imagine it should have helped the relationship, at least initially.