Bob Dylan

[Sarah]

And you really think Dylan is a rational? I'm sticking by him being an type, ILE. I'm sure of it.

Dylan is ISFj.

quotes:

I can be jubilant one moment and pensive the next, and a cloud could go by and make that happen.

I kinda live where I find myself.

I paint mostly from real life. It has to start with that. Real people, real street scenes, behind the curtain scenes, live models, paintings, photographs, staged setups, architecture, grids, graphic design. Whatever it takes to make it work.

What good are fans? You can't eat applause for breakfast. You can't sleep with it.

I don't think the human mind can comprehend the past and the future. They are both just illusions that can manipulate you into thinking there's some kind of change.

I change during the course of a day. I wake and I'm one person, and when I go to sleep I know for certain I'm somebody else.

I'm inconsistent, even to myself.

Some formulas are too complex and I don't want anything to do with them.

Anybody can be specific and obvious. That's always been the easy way. It's not that it's so difficult to be unspecific and less obvious; it's just that there's nothing, absolutely nothing, to be specific and obvious about.

I'm more of an adventurous type than a relationship type.

I don't think I'm tangible to myself.

Being noticed can be a burden. Jesus got himself crucified because he got himself noticed. So I disappear a lot.

I'm not the kind of cat that's going to cut off an ear if I can't do something.

A lot of people can't stand touring but to me it's like breathing. I do it because I'm driven to do it.

My songs always sound a lot better in person than they do on the record.

[Rocky]

Bullshit, prove it. What do you actually know about Dylan?

Reread first post.

[ScarlettLux]

Even I know he's not an ISFJ

[JuJu]

I've seen him typed INTp on this forum.

IxFp, I believe... Probably ISFp.

Any other ideas?

[JuJu]

Pt. 3 of an interview with Dylan from the 80s.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7LKhfrWLr...elated&search=

In my opinion, definitely a Narrator--and definitely Dynamic.

Conclusion: ISFp.

[Rocky]

entp fo sho. the man with many faces.

[UDP]

He always seemed strange to me
An ESE I know does not think much of him herself.

[JuJu]

ENTp?!

Could you explain why... he seems very xxFp to me.

[Exodus]

FWIW always seemed INFp to me.

[JuJu]

Very clearly Si-valuing in this video:



ISFp or ISTp? (I'm inclined to think the former.)

[Gilly]

What is Si valuing in that video? Not that I necessarily disagree with Si dominant, but I'm not sure I see where you're coming from with the video.

[Lotus]

I relate strongly to him in regards to the things he writes and says to people. I like him a lot. Dunno what type he is though.

[consentingadult]

Keirsey wrote on Dylan and thinks he's a KTS-ISFP:

http://www.keirsey.com/handler.aspx?...&tab=4&c=dylan

[consentingadult]

Keirsey wrote on Dylan and thinks he's a KTS-ISFP:

http://www.keirsey.com/handler.aspx?...&tab=4&c=dylan

mmmm... just readit again for the first time in two years, and i must say, to me it makes no sense from a Socionics perspective.

[tereg]

Keirsey wrote on Dylan and thinks he's a KTS-ISFP:

http://www.keirsey.com/handler.aspx?...&tab=4&c=dylan

Thank you for posting this, because I thought of this when I saw this thread.

Most interesting in that article, imo, is his relationship with Joan Baez.

[JuJu]

In Socionics, IMO, Baez is ENFp.

Here's another interview with Dylan, just to give everyone a better glimpse of his personality. (Again, for those attuned to Si, I believe it's pretty clear.)



ISFp or ISTp?

[consentingadult]

In Socionics, IMO, Baez is ENFp.

Here's another interview with Dylan, just to give everyone a better glimpse of his personality. (Again, for those attuned to Si, I believe it's pretty clear.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5Mw0qDTSY

ISFp or ISTp?

he receives quite a lot of Fi in this interview. I do not believe a true ISFp would have a need for that, so if I have to choose between these two it woud be ISTp.

[JuJu]

He's my favorite musical artist, by far... Almost all I listen to--except his lachrymose mid-80s synth ballads... If he's ISTp, well maybe that's why... I'm dualizing

[implied]

Pt. 3 of an interview with Dylan from the 80s.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7LKhfrWLr...elated&search=

In my opinion, definitely a Narrator--and definitely Dynamic.

Conclusion: ISFp.

lol whattup dee.

[JuJu]

lol whattup dee.

LOL!! hyuck hyuck!!

have you ever said anything of substance ever..?

It seems like all you do is attempt to make fun of ppl... 'Attempt' b/c the jokes aren't funny.

You follow around Niffweed, posting after him... lol whattup

[consentingadult]

He's my favorite musical artist, by far... Almost all I listen to--except his lachrymose mid-80s synth ballads... If he's ISTp, well maybe that's why... I'm dualizing

Read the Keirsey account and you'll find out that Dylan has had that effect on many other types. Everybody seems to recognize themselves in his music. Everyone but me, that is: I once slept though his performance at a festival, much to th surprise of an ISFp friend of mine. He kicked me out of my sleep, said "Dylan's up!", I got up, looked for half a minute, and lied down on the cardboard again to continue my nap. My friend looked at me in amazement so I went: "Yes??" "But it's Dylan!!!" he cried. I again: "so what!?" and went to sleep. But that was almost 20 years ago.

I apologize upfront to all Dylan fans out here

[implied]

LOL!! hyuck hyuck!!

have you ever said anything of substance ever..?

It seems like all you do is attempt to make fun of ppl... 'Attempt' b/c the jokes aren't funny.

You follow around Niffweed, posting after him... lol whattup

never. (; i'm sure your ESTp friend could do a better job at making fun of people!

[implied]

anyhow, how does bob dylan strike anyone as a type?

[JuJu]

I didn't like Dylan at all until I bought Nashville Skyline, his late 60s 'country' record -- a lot of Si. (Unrelated: Johnny Cash sings on the first song and Charlie Daniels plays throughout.)

I can understand why some ppl don't like Dylan... The lyrics are obtuse; his singing is off-key... It's not like he's Freddie Mercury or Diamond Dave onstage either, (as you probably noticed if you opened your eyes during the performance haha.)

That said, he's a very prolific songwriter--his music is occasionally of spotty quality... Like Frank Zappa: put out enough material and some of it's bound to be crap.

IMPLIED: do you have anything of substance to say regarding Bob Dylan's type? Or are you just gonna do the usual, i.e. snarky, unfunny comment that you think makes you look cool in the eyes of your two or three virtual friends?

[implied]

I didn't like Dylan at all until I bought Nashville Skyline, his late 60s 'country' record -- a lot of Si. (Unrelated: Johnny Cash sings on the first song and Charlie Daniels plays throughout.)

I can understand why some ppl don't like Dylan... The lyrics are obtuse; his singing is off-key... It's not like he's Freddie Mercury or Diamond Dave onstage either, (as you probably noticed if you opened your eyes during the performance haha.)

That said, he's a very prolific songwriter--his music is occasionally of spotty quality... Like Frank Zappa: put out enough material and some of it's bound to be crap.

IMPLIED: do you have anything of substance to say regarding Bob Dylan's type? Or are you just gonna do the usual?

i'm asking why he's Te.

[JuJu]

i'm asking why he's Te.

Fair enough then I'll look for something on a video to see if we can get to the bottom of this.

[consentingadult]

I didn't like Dylan at all until I bought Nashville Skyline, his late 60s 'country' record -- a lot of Si. (Unrelated: Johnny Cash sings on the first song and Charlie Daniels plays throughout.)

I can understand why some ppl don't like Dylan... The lyrics are obtuse; his singing is off-key... It's not like he's Freddie Mercury or Diamond Dave onstage either, (as you probably noticed if you opened your eyes during the performance haha.)

That said, he's a very prolific songwriter--his music is occasionally of spotty quality... Like Frank Zappa: put out enough material and some of it's bound to be crap.

IMPLIED: do you have anything of substance to say regarding Bob Dylan's type? Or are you just gonna do the usual?

I was just kidding: although the account I gave was genuine, I think his music is okay.

I'm not convinced he's ISTp or ISFp though. Could be INTp as well, but even another type that just might suffer from e.g. dysthymic disorder.

[Logos]

I think that the only thing that seems clear about Bob Dylan's type is an IP temperament.

[JuJu]

I'll make a case for IXTp, although I admit, I'm not 100% convinced myself, and am open to all suggestions... Regardless, re: Dylan, I believe it's pretty evident that we can eliminate all rational types from consideration.


In the mid-70s, Dylan, (at around the time of the Rolling Thunder Review tour w/ The Band and Baez,) for whatever reason, believed that his songwriting abilities were waning... At that time--and he writes in his book, Chronicles, for the reason that he felt 'good for nothin,' he indulged in wild sensory excesses, e.g. drugs, women, anything to get his mind off the fact that he couldn't write songs as he used to, the kind that he wanted to write.

This is consistent with Wikisocion's description of creative Te:
"The individual works with the goal of producing dynamic objects and/or conditions. **in Dylan's case, songs, tours, albums** These objects may be physical or mental so long as they are in motion. **In this case, the 'objects-in-motion' would be songs/albums... An aside: Dylan is renowned for re-arranging his old songs in unexpected ways, and thus they're constantly in motion** If conditions do not allow this function to work, the individual will become bored and increasingly engage in base function activities in complete disregard of the objective facts suggesting otherwise action. ** E.g. teriods in the 70s and 80s when he "couldn't write," and this indulged in his (presumed) base function, Si**

In the following interview, @ about 2:46 Bob Dylan--with a typical Te expression on his face--one that should be familiar to anyone who is/knows a IXTp, (not necessarily the "INTps" on this forum lol)--talks about how "you can't do something forever, but I did it once.... I can do other things now, but I can't do that."

On his name change @ 5:50: "you call yourself what you wanna call yourself. This is the land of the free."

@8:20 "My stuff was songs; they were not sermons... If you examine the stuff in there, you won't find anything that says I'm the spokesman for anybody or anything really..." Bradley: "But they saw you [as spokesman for the generation]!" Dylan: " They must not have heard the songs."



I agree w/ Logos... IP temperament is very clear... I don't think it takes much analysis to eliminate INFp though, i.e. no Beta values... He seems receptive to Fi.) ISFp, ISTp, and INTp are the choices.

[implied]

why Si? i personally like him as a Ni dominant but i couldn't say which one at this point. might lean INFp as this reminds me a little of glenn gould singing sermon to the fishes to a bunch of animals.

[JuJu]

If you read about Dylan's lifestyle--and listen to his music/read his lyrics, particularly that produced after '68, after he became mature--Si seems to fit a bit better... However, I say "a bit" b/c INTp is a possibility, definitely.

Has anyone ever seen the video of Dylan and Lennon (INTp, IMO) in the car together? Dylan is drunk and belligerent... It's worth watching--very funny.

BTW, Implied, if you read his book, he refers to the above 'publicity videos' as things he put out to confuse ppl... Essentially, he was trying to rid himself of fans w/those.

[consentingadult]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qiCjREzhYE

why Si? i personally like him as a Ni dominant but i couldn't say which one at this point.

Good point; In JujJu's video he comes across as dysthymic, in this video as hypomanic. I guess I d not have to explain that these are opposites, do I?

One of the things that 'bugs' me about many Socionics-adepts, is that they try to explain all behavior within the Socionics framework. We could actually learn a thing or two from mainstream psychology (and from the scientific method in general): if you want to prove something, you do not only have to provide evidence for the observed phenomena, but also that the phenomena are not better explained by something else.

Look at many diagnostic criteria in th DSM-IV: often it says somehing to the effect: "the symptoms are not better accounted for by such-and-such disorder".

For all we know, Dylan is an EIE with bipolar disorder!

[JuJu]

Good point; In JujJu's video he comes across as dysthymic, in this video as hypomanic.

Again though--he put out videos like the one Implied posted to 'throw fans off of his trial...' At the time, many ppl were considering him some sort of prophet--Dylan did not like that, according to his book, Chronicles--and thus he put those out promo videos to appear buffoonish. The intended effect: 'who would follow someone like THAT?'

For all we know, Dylan is an EIE with bipolar disorder!

lol ok, but we can only go by what we have... Currently, the best we have are interviews...

If what you're trying to say is that typing ppl is difficult: true.

Regardless, after having this conversation, I've revised my option from ISFp... I think Bob Dylan is IXTp--based primarily on the interviews, and that his music exemplifies a lot of Fi sentiment (e.g. "To make you feel my love," "You're gonna make me lonesome when you go," etc.)

Gamma quadra values for Dylan..? I'd say that Delta is (slightly) more likely, given what we know about how he's lived, e.g. simply, no focus whatsoever on money, etc--and that a lot of his songs seem to express delta quadra sentiment, (esp. his work from Nashville Skyline on.)

[implied]

BTW, Implied, if you read his book, he refers to the above 'publicity videos' as things he put out to confuse ppl... Essentially, he was trying to rid himself of fans w/those.

right, they still strike me as highly Ni. i'm not sure why you're pointing this out really. i mean, if his whole purpose was to throw people for a loop and be clever or whatever, it still seems intuitive to me.

[consentingadult]

True, but we can only go by what we have... And currently, the best we have are interviews--not promo clips that were released with specific objectives in mind... You know what I'm saying?

If what you're trying to say is that typing ppl is difficult: true.

An example: suppose you stand trial in a court of law for some crime, and the DA can not come up with convincing evidence, should the judge or jury pass sentence anyway based on the poor evidence that is available? That is what a lot of people want (to the extend that if we let them have their way, innocent people are lynched), but thank God, we do have decent working courts of law in the western world.

The principle is: it is not a disgrace to say: "I do not have enough information to reach a conclusion, so I refrain from drawing one". You have made a very good case for leading Si, but implied has made a very good case against Te. I see lot of Fi seeking, but no valuing of Ti. From a Socionic prspective, this is a contrdiction in terms. To me, it seems there is a hole in Dylan's Model A make up.

My stand: I refrain from drawing conclusions on Dylan's type for the reason that his psychology seems to indicate a non-personality related disorder.

Of course, it's perfectly ok if you still want to pursue typing him, because I can not exclude the possibility that he is typeable after all.

[implied]

An example: suppose you stand trial in a court of law for some crime, and the DA can not come up with convincing evidence, should the judge or jury pass sentence anyway based on the poor evidence that is available? That is what a lot of people want (to the extend that if we let them have their way, innocent people are lynched), but thank God, we do have decent working courts of law in the western world.

The principle is: it is not a disgrace to say: "I do not have enough information to reach a conclusion, so I refrain from drawing one".

i like you. (:

You have made a very good case for leading Si, but implied has made a very good case against Te. I see lot of Fi seeking, but no valuing of Ti. From a Socionic prspective, this is a contrdiction in terms. To me, it seems there is a hole in Dylan's Model A make up.

My stand: I refrain from drawing conclusions on Dylan's type for the reason that his psychology seems to indicate a non-personality related disorder.

Of course, it's perfectly ok if you still want to pursue typing him, because I can not exclude the possibility that he is typeable after all.

what would you make of someone like r crumb, who i've started a thread on in this subforum? i actually am prone to type him as INFp but i can't say that he very blatantly comes off as . to me it's easier to spot a non-existent interest in Te at all, and a very Ni base.

[tereg]

I'm posting stuff from an IM conversation (only the stuff I've said)

tereg (8/26/2008 7:38:33 PM): but for me, on a personal note, i've never been a huge bob dylan fan really
tereg (8/26/2008 7:38:48 PM): he just doesn't do it for me *shrugs* i mean i don't dislike him
tereg (8/26/2008 7:39:08 PM): but i think he's an interesting character though, very interesting person to hear talk
tereg (8/26/2008 7:39:48 PM): i was actually thinking joan baez is socionically an ENFj
tereg (8/26/2008 7:39:49 PM): not ENFp
...
tereg (8/26/2008 7:40:57 PM): i mean i think in the keirseyan sense, SP is a perfect fit for dylan
tereg (8/26/2008 7:41:26 PM): and certainly MBTI introverted
tereg (8/26/2008 7:42:00 PM): the hallmark of dylan is that... he wrote music not for the people, even though a lot of people connected with his music
...
tereg (8/26/2008 7:42:10 PM): but he wrote music because he enjoyed making music
tereg (8/26/2008 7:42:34 PM): and when people tried to mold him a certain way, he resisted
tereg (8/26/2008 7:42:39 PM): when he went electric, he didn't care
tereg (8/26/2008 7:42:46 PM): even though people screamed he was selling out
tereg (8/26/2008 7:43:04 PM): and i don't really think those are characteristics of an ISFp
tereg (8/26/2008 7:43:16 PM): that doesn't really seem to fit
tereg (8/26/2008 7:43:33 PM): i don't really see the Fe in dylan though
tereg (8/26/2008 7:43:38 PM): if he's an INFp
tereg (8/26/2008 7:44:35 PM): maybe i'm missing something though
...
tereg (8/26/2008 7:46:36 PM): you know who he sort of resembled at an older age
tereg (8/26/2008 7:46:41 PM): maybe a comparable person
tereg (8/26/2008 7:46:43 PM): tom waits
...
tereg (8/26/2008 7:48:11 PM): and isn't he typically typed as ISTp?
tereg (8/26/2008 7:48:49 PM): and he's so.... cynical too
tereg (8/26/2008 7:48:52 PM): you know?
...
tereg (8/26/2008 7:49:57 PM): like anytime any accolades were thrown on him [Dylan], it's be like "i don't pay attention to that stuff.. this week they're saying this, but someone new will come around and i'll just be forgotten, might as well not get wrapped around in it"
tereg (8/26/2008 7:51:03 PM): he marches to the beat of his own drum.... and actually i thougth of another thing
tereg (8/26/2008 7:51:11 PM): the conversion to christianity then back to judaism
tereg (8/26/2008 7:51:33 PM): and the whole... like, seeing how other christians in his life were hypocritical
tereg (8/26/2008 7:51:51 PM): and sort of being like "you know what, if this is how they are, screw this, i'm not rolling with that"
tereg (8/26/2008 7:52:36 PM): you know what was it that burned him before converting back to judaism?
tereg (8/26/2008 7:53:11 PM): it was a stigma of association with a group he didn't want to be a part of... so he just left it behind and walked away
tereg (8/26/2008 7:53:18 PM): i'm not sure if that means anything socionically
tereg (8/26/2008 7:53:25 PM): but it sort of makes me think ISTp/INTp
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR8Yu...eature=related
tereg (8/26/2008 8:25:31 PM): yeah
tereg (8/26/2008 8:25:39 PM): he doesn't write "messages"
tereg (8/26/2008 8:25:55 PM): you can see the strain in his voice just from being there seemingly
tereg (8/26/2008 8:26:02 PM): like from being interviewed
tereg (8/26/2008 8:26:18 PM): that cynical sort of strain of just of the act of being interviewed
tereg (8/26/2008 8:26:38 PM): the disdain for the "class" of people that read magazines
tereg (8/26/2008 8:27:55 PM): the truth being an image of the proletariat contrasted with the alleys and sewers of life
tereg (8/26/2008 8:29:16 PM): he despises the bigwig class of people, the proletariats of big business, like the magazines, the ones that can't ever get to know the heart of what it is they write about
...
tereg (8/26/2008 8:29:40 PM): but he makes it clear that it's not WHAT they write that bothers him
tereg (8/26/2008 8:29:56 PM): no i don't think he's nervous in the interview
tereg (8/26/2008 8:30:17 PM): i think he's just geniuinely disdainful of the very "idea" of who is doing the interview
tereg (8/26/2008 8:30:29 PM): big corporate magazine people
tereg (8/26/2008 8:30:49 PM): i'm just sort of writing my impressions as i watch this interview
tereg (8/26/2008 8:30:52 PM):
tereg (8/26/2008 8:30:59 PM): because i think it's a fascinating one
tereg (8/26/2008 8:31:26 PM): the disrespect he feels when he gets asked "do you care about what you say?"
tereg (8/26/2008 8:31:51 PM): i mean he's making the interviewer more uncomfortable if anything
tereg (8/26/2008 8:32:49 PM): but yeah the strain of his voice is not coming from him being nervous
...
tereg (8/26/2008 8:35:35 PM): i wonder if any of what i said is useful in a socionics sense though :-/
...

big corporate magazine people
tereg (8/26/2008 8:37:34 PM): i'm not speaking of that from my own point of view
tereg (8/26/2008 8:37:45 PM): but like sort of how dylan felt about the people that were interviewing him
tereg (8/26/2008 8:38:26 PM): "oh, TIME magazine is coming... great.... yeah get some pawn of the bigwig big corporate offices to come down and try to get a few words so they can sell a few thousand copies of their magazine"
tereg (8/26/2008 8:38:28 PM): you know what i mean?
tereg (8/26/2008 8:38:57 PM): that's the vibe i got when i watched that interview, the body language he was sort of exuding

Edit: Actually I don't think it was the stigma that caused him to leave but it was more.... hmm...

I think when something annoyed Dylan, whether it was corporate types interviewing him or seeing others not practice what they preach, he just dropped it and walked away.

[consentingadult]

i like you. (:

what would you make of someone like r crumb, who i've started a thread on in this subforum? i actually am prone to type him as INFp but i can't say that he very blatantly comes off as . to me it's easier to spot a non-existent interest in Te at all, and a very Ni base.

I don't know him, but I'll look into the thread tomorrow, it's 4AM here

[JuJu]

i'm not sure why you're pointing this out really. i mean, if his whole purpose was to throw people for a loop and be clever or whatever, it still seems intuitive to me.

i'm sure why you're pointing this out though... (ugh)

As has been pointed out, Dylan's use of Te in those interviews is pretty blatant... Also, based on those interviews, Fe creative (as in a INFp and ISFp) seems a real damn long shot... Compare, for example, Elton John (IEI) and Bob Dylan.

Can anyone come up with any evidence to support a INFp typing?

IMO, IXTp... I would type Dylan's music (not necessarily the man) Delta>Gamma... traditional themes, worldly-wise lyrics, stories about ppl, etc.

[marooned]

interesting... i'm wondering if he's EIE. (if not, then IEI?)

As an old guy

• seems gruff and rational. i was suddenly reminded of leonard nimoy.
• he sees the writing of his songs as magical (it just happened), he doesn't know where it came from and as an older man doesn't believe he can do it anymore ("well you can't do something forever... i can do other things now, but i can't do that")
• he always knew there was something greater he was meant to do, even as a child (because of knowing this, his childhood wasn't happy or unhappy) -- he was destined to become a music legend
• destiny: you know something about yourself that no one else does... you know the vision of yourself in your head will come true... you have to keep it to yourself and not tell anyone because it's fragile, and if you put it out there it will die
• feeling like an imposter because the image of who you are and how others see you isn't who you are
• he didn't see his songs as sparking a movement, didn't see himself as a "prophet"... he wasn't trying to be a spokesperson for anything or create any cultural movements... there's no great message in what he writes... they're just songs
• creatively tried to shatter the image others had of him - didn't like how the public was perceiving him (because it wasn't him), and he'd rather be anything than the great shining light they saw him as... it's hard being just a man and everyone treats you like a god, as though you have all the answers, when you see yourself as having none
• didn't like the media because they were trying to pin him down to something

As a young guy (other video)

• the truth is just a plain picture (you don't try to paint it any way, it just is)... it's like a tramp throwing up while a subway goes by
• goes over the process of how something gets in Time magazine and all the people involved in different places at different times putting it together, and how they each do their little part of it... and the end product then just doesn't seem like it's anything that's true or real at all, so why is this even important? there's no point in his trying to explain why he doesn't see himself a certain way, because it won't go anywhere or do anything, and the interviewer will just nod and that's it
• when the Time magazine guy questioned "do you care what you write?" the tone came off imo as an accusation, and Dylan threw this back at the guy with a charged expression of being offended: "how do you have the nerve to ask me that?!" it was very effective at shutting down the situation
• the interviewer seemed very uncomfortable the entire time, and Dylan seemed rather confrontational
• Dylan seems to think that everyone will just go and listen to his music for entertainment and seems to deny that his music represents anything more than that to some people... when the interviewer says he knows that people have said they're seeing him perform for other reasons, Dylan exclaims "who cares what they say!"
• Dylan finishes off the interview joking about he's a better singer than someone else and can hit the notes and hold his breath longer (it's a sort of jovial display of exaggerated conceit)... it changes the mood and tone of the situation (lightens things up)
• seems to have a sort of "whiny victimy Fe thing going"?

It's odd, how he looked in the video where he's older reminded me of Leonard Nimoy (LSI), and his mentioning how the public sees him as something else than he is reminded me of something I remember reading in Nimoy's autobiography... Nimoy mentioned that people want to meet him because they want to meet "Spock", so he feels like they're not even talking to him or seeing him, because he will forever be that character... It felt like a similar attitude to Dylan's (and it's a completely understandable attitude), but it's interesting the lengths that Dylan went to trying to change this, where as I don't think Nimoy really did anything. But stereotypically, I wonder if this large image concern should be associated once again with Fe, just like it always is.

(i wasn't trying to plagiarize, i just was too lazy to put quotes there among the bullets, my computer is being insanely slow and the typing is dragging)