Integral Types of Countries/Nations

[Shining]

Then what is it (and why)? Some Fe ego at least.

I associate Fe to welcoming and willing to include people, especially blocked with Si. On this basis, a lot of countries are showing more of this quality than France i think (even countries often typed here like SEE, like Spain, Italy, Brazil...).
I am not even able to be sure of my own type and can't type some long term friends so i don't think my typing skills are reliable. I am really asking myself if socionics really works. So many people just doesn't fit in 1 type for me. We can hope from the side of the neurosciences to make sense of our brain-working, without that comprehension of our functionning and so socionics won't progress. I am thinking socionics is some kind of religion in its actual state.
But, SEI is not that bad, french are unwilling to initiate but are welcoming and talkative overall once initiated like someone previously stated, it's interesting to type countries but at the end does it even mean anything ?

[Exodus]

@shining

Excluding the point of whether integral type / type in general exists for the moment, the reason France is seen as Fe is due to the high emphasis on romance, culture, and art.
I did think SEI based on my brief stay in Paris but I am not an expert.

[Shining]

@shining

Excluding the point of whether integral type / type in general exists for the moment, the reason France is seen as Fe is due to the high emphasis on romance, culture, and art.
I did think SEI based on my brief stay in Paris but I am not an expert.

Yes, in this way you can even type France as ESE, if you go by stereotypes which don't have to reflect modern time but the historical spirit of a country.

[lavos]

France:

-hedonism (Si)

-poetry/refinement (Fe)

-cheese (Si)

-eiffel tower (Ti)

-Boris Vian (Ne)

-"liberté, egalité. fraternité" (democratic quadra, alpha > gamma)

(alpha SF)

Now, I've been there, and I while I felt welcomed, I didn't feel at home like in some other places I've considered as gamma.

[vesstheastralsilky]

I think the case could be made for USA being LIE. It is a country of workaholism, where time is scarce, overvalued and is money, and excessive pragmatism reigns. There is little time for leisure and pleasure activities. The arts and pure sciences struggle (anti-Alpha) - the latter often recruiting from around the world for pure research. Sex and sensuality has little value and respect and often the subjects here are fraught with negativity (anti-SEI). Population is dwindling. A good family life, culturally, has become a rare find (anti-ESE). There are wide economic gaps rather than justice for all (anti-Alpha NT). Gammas tend to thrive in capitalistic systems but most everyone else suffers. It is overregulated bureaucratic and inefficient (unlike the efficient SLI). Buildings are rarely preserved and the landscape is growing into a post-industrial, quickie-mart wasteland that offends the eyes and is littered with excessive practical data, signage and tiny business outlets everywhere. "Strength" is overrated or misapplied.

I find it extremely hard to be happy and live naturally here as an SEI type. Heck, I have to go into SuperEgo mode as an ILI just to keep a job and pay bills while owning nothing.

@Adam Strange I don't mean to be mean but I like you so much that I still find it hard to accept your typing as LIE. Maybe you are just an exquisite exception for the type.

[Adam Strange]

I think the case could be made for USA being LIE. It is a country of workaholism, where time is scarce, overvalued and is money, and excessive pragmatism reigns. There is little time for leisure and pleasure activities. The arts and pure sciences struggle (anti-Alpha) - the latter often recruiting from around the world for pure research. Sex and sensuality has little value and respect and often the subjects here are fraught with negativity (anti-SEI). A good family life, culturally, has become a rare find (anti-ESE). There are wide economic gaps rather than justice for all (anti-Alpha NT). Gammas tend to thrive in capitalistic systems but most everyone else suffers. It is overregulated bureaucratic and inefficient (unlike the efficient SLI). Buildings are rarely preserved and the landscape is growing into a post-industrial, quickie-mart wasteland that offends the eyes and is littered with excessive practical data, signage and tiny business outlets everywhere. I find it extremely hard to be happy and live naturally here as an SEI type. Heck, I have to go into SuperEgo mode as an ILI just to keep a job and pay bills while owning nothing.

@Adam Strange I don't mean to be mean but I like you so much that I still find it hard to accept your typing as LIE. Maybe you are just an exquisite exception for the type.

Thank you, @vesstheastralsilky. I didn't take your comments personally. I actually tend to agree with them.
As a matter of fact, I'm much more liberal than most of the LIE's I know. I guess you'd call me a traitor to my type. Lol.

If there is a difference between me and most LIE's I know, it might be due to the fact that I basically started with very, very little money outside of what I earned working (my grandmother gave each of her three grandchildren $15k, her lifetime savings, which I used as a down payment on my first house. I now keep more than that in my sock drawer as ready cash because I've been lucky) but I lived near Detroit and worked with guys in factories and I also know some millionaires and can compare the two groups. Luck is the major determining factor in getting rich, not brilliance, and things seem to be changing for the worse, in the sense that the rich are pulling up the ladders. I hate that. It results in a group of heartless, entitled, fucking morons running the country.

Meritocracy is a term the rich privately use to describe their tribe, but is far from the truth of the matter. I'd like to drop every one of these guys into Somalia with a handgun and $20 and pick up the survivors (if any) two weeks later, 100 miles away. That might adjust their attitudes a bit.

But I agree that placing a price on everything in society and privatizing the commons is a sure way to a broken society.

Sorry about the rant.

[Adam Strange]

I think the USA is a LIE society because of immigration.

If you assume that the types are distributed as a certain fixed percentage of every population, based on the needs of society (and I do), and you find that LIE's aren't that common in any population, then the question arises as to what would cause the USA to have more LIE's than most countries?

I believe the answer is immigration. LIE's are particularly prone to picking up and moving to a new place if there are no opportunities for them where they are, and for much of history, Europe was basically locked down by Aristocrats and the Church. When a new country opened up, I believe that LIE's picked up and moved there.

Incidentally, (SEE or LIE) Napoleon's major role in history was to destroy the power of the church in Europe, just after the French Aristocrats had been bankrupted.

[vesstheastralsilky]

I think the USA is a LIE society because of immigration.

If you assume that the types are distributed as a certain fixed percentage of every population, based on the needs of society (and I do), and you find that LIE's aren't that common in any population, then the question arises as to what would cause the USA to have more LIE's than most countries?

I believe the answer is immigration. LIE's are particularly prone to picking up and moving to a new place if there are no opportunities for them where they are, and for much of history, Europe was basically locked down by Aristocrats and the Church. When a new country opened up, I believe that LIE's picked up and moved there.

Incidentally, (SEE or LIE) Napoleon's major role in history was to destroy the power of the church in Europe, just after the French Aristocrats had been bankrupted.

Interesting.

Now that I think about it, (this is my Te POLR wrt published data), the state of California unlike most of the USA seems very EII. Same goes for many fringe liberal groups.

I wonder which countries are SEI.

[Lord Panda]

I think India is very Beta. The foundation of Indian society is built on rules and social heirarchies, like the caste system. But even so, the country as a whole has morphed over the years from LSI to EIE. It's a bizarre change if you look at it... What's more interesting is that India has been able to resist gamma-ification over the years as well. I think this is because the beta system is so strong here. From the mythology of Hinduism, to the rigid caste system and communal tensions and the like... Not to mention, Indians are a bizarre mix of being frugal and straight out flaunting wealth. The infamous Indian serials, TV shows and Bollywood movies with the song numbers and over the top acting, it all just is so so so Fe. I fit in well over here actually lol.

[PussyInASarcophagus]

I think the case could be made for USA being LIE. It is a country of workaholism, where time is scarce, overvalued and is money, and excessive pragmatism reigns. There is little time for leisure and pleasure activities. The arts and pure sciences struggle (anti-Alpha) - the latter often recruiting from around the world for pure research. Sex and sensuality has little value and respect and often the subjects here are fraught with negativity (anti-SEI). Population is dwindling. A good family life, culturally, has become a rare find (anti-ESE). There are wide economic gaps rather than justice for all (anti-Alpha NT). Gammas tend to thrive in capitalistic systems but most everyone else suffers. It is overregulated bureaucratic and inefficient (unlike the efficient SLI). Buildings are rarely preserved and the landscape is growing into a post-industrial, quickie-mart wasteland that offends the eyes and is littered with excessive practical data, signage and tiny business outlets everywhere. "Strength" is overrated or misapplied.

I find it extremely hard to be happy and live naturally here as an SEI type. Heck, I have to go into SuperEgo mode as an ILI just to keep a job and pay bills while owning nothing.

@Adam Strange I don't mean to be mean but I like you so much that I still find it hard to accept your typing as LIE. Maybe you are just an exquisite exception for the type.

No offense but to me it seems like your projecting your perceived 'low qualities' of the personality of your conflictor into a country you are unable to thrive in despite being the land of opportunity. In short, stop being a negative Nancy and improve your conditions.

[mclane]

Bump. Pretty sure of these

Japan SLI-Si
Italy LSE-Si
Spain IEE-Fi
Argentina EIE-Ni
Sweden LII-Ti
India ESE-Fe
China SEE-Fi
Russia SLE-Se
USA ESI-Se
Greece ILI-Ni
England LSE-Te
Scotland SLI-Si
Netherlands LII-Ne
Brazil ESE-Fe
Mexico SEE-Se
Canada EII-Fi
Germany SLI-Te
North Korea - SLE-Se
Iran ILE-Ne
Thailand LSI-Se
Syria IEI-Fe
Poland IEE-Fi
Hungary SLI-Si
Romania SEE-Se
Nepal SEI-Si
S. Korea IEI-Fe
Vietnam IEI-Ni
France SEI-Fe
Turkey ESE-Si


Will add more

[Santa Claus]

Bahamas IEE culture; LIE tax administration

[Computer Loser]

Bahamas IEE culture; LIE tax administration

its gonna be a ho ho ho kinda Christmas this year I can already tell

[mclane]

People from a determinate country often have an "overlay", their country's type permeates the expression of of their type regardless of their individual type.

[ooo]

Italy is an Alpha country. Our main traits: food (Si), art and passion (F-e-), inventors and last minute ideas that save the situation (Ne + Ti). I'd type it some ESFj for the very traditional mindset that is famous worldwide.

where is the Se? we're a joke for all the major potencies, not strong and scary : )

[mclane]

Italy is an Alpha country. Our main traits: food (Si), art and passion (F-e-), inventors and last minute ideas that save the situation (Ne + Ti). I'd type it some ESFj for the very traditional mindset that is famous worldwide.

where is the Se? we're a joke for all the major potencies, not strong and scary : )

Mafia

[ooo]

Mafia

which is just another name for nepotism corrupted politics (Fe-Ti gone wrong) and fits the Se demon

[Muddy]

Italy is an Alpha country. Our main traits: food (Si), art and passion (F-e-), inventors and last minute ideas that save the situation (Ne + Ti). I'd type it some ESFj for the very traditional mindset that is famous worldwide.

where is the Se? we're a joke for all the major potencies, not strong and scary : )

A relative of mine said Italy was easily his favorite place he has traveled to out of all the places he has been, and he has been to a lot of places.

[ooo]

A relative of mine said Italy was easily his favorite place he has traveled to out of all the places he has been, and he has been to a lot of places.

whats his type? come in italy Muddy~ we'll cook for u

[Muddy]

whats his type? come in italy Muddy~ we'll cook for u

Hard to say as I've only seen him for a couple days. He seems like a kind of "relaxed intellectual", probably most similar to Adam out of the people from here.


I suppose I will have to consider coming to Italy.

[gone]

Italy is an Alpha country. Our main traits: food (Si), art and passion (F-e-), inventors and last minute ideas that save the situation (Ne + Ti). I'd type it some ESFj for the very traditional mindset that is famous worldwide.

where is the Se? we're a joke for all the major potencies, not strong and scary : )

Coincidentally, I have a neighbour from Italy who will live here to study for 6 months. She's very ESE. Talked about how she got over her shyness just by convincing herself not to be shy or some bullshit

[ooo]

Talked about how she got over her shyness just by convincing herself not to be shy or some bullshit

lol my ILE dad would repeat me the same bs all through my life, he thought that making speeches to the mirror like "you're great! you can do all!" would help my shyness, smh <3

[Metamorph]

16t meetup in Italy!

That will probably never happen, but 95% of forum members know they want it.

[PussyInASarcophagus]

I'm sorry but I fail to see my country as a Fi valuing type and a Serious one at that. Impoverished southern Mexicans migrating to America for a better life seems like Quadra progression in my honest opinion. Tradition also tends VERY heavily to merry dichotomies. A PolR Fe would actually hate to be Mexican. And, as if our leaders haven't been an example yet they're mostly representatives of the Beta Quadra.

[ashlesha]

my SO is weak but the anti-mask sentiment has come to me to characterize the bratty teenage core of america. is that accurate? and is it LIE? mb SLE actually. just a thought

[Adam Strange]

my SO is weak but the anti-mask sentiment has come to me to characterize the bratty teenage core of america. is that accurate? and is it LIE? mb SLE actually. just a thought

This article is about vaccines, not masks, but it might apply: https://jabberwocking.com/why-are-re...-surprise-you/