Minimalist descriptions of duality

[Expat]

First -- of course relationships are more complicated than that, and all of them have the bits I am listing -- I am suggesting that the specific dualities give more focus to them, though.

From the functional pairings:

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.
Ne - Si: We have fun exploring the same things and sensations.
Ti-Fe: We share the same ideals and want to make each other laugh.
Fi-Te: We want to understand each other and find the same kind of information useful.

So, from that:

INTj-ESFj and ENTp-ISFp: We have fun exploring the same things and sensations. We share the same ideals and want to make each other laugh.
INFp-ESTp and ENFj-ISTj: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives. We share the same ideals and want to make each other laugh.
INTp-ESFp and ENTj-ISFj: We want to understand each other and find the same kind of information useful. We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.
INFj-ESTj and ENFp-ISTp: We have fun exploring the same things and sensations. We want to understand each other and find the same kind of information useful.

I am suggesting that, very simplistically, these are the points that, when they are not met, are most likely to cause a failure in the relationships of these types.

For instance -- let us take Slacker Mom's marriage (ENFp-ISTp). I do know that she doesn't share his enthusiasm for cars and such -- but surely what I described works in other things, on other levels?

[Ms. Kensington]

could you explain "ideals" more?

[Expat]

could you explain "ideals" more?

Well, "ideals" is obviously a positive way of describing Ti judgements in a minimalist way.

What I meant is that the Ti of the two partners has to coincide, or one of them has to accept the other's, in terms of ideologies, prejudices even, understanding of the way the world should be, etc.

It can be argued that a strong political belief - as in socialism, for instance - is connected to Ti. Another one would be a strong religious belief as in, say, Buddhism. So the duality can't really work if the Ti's of the partners lead to mutually excluding beliefs, ideals, etc.

Of course it depends on how important it is. My ENTp brother is an atheist, his ISFp wife is a devote Catholic -- so it seems that, in as far as Ti is important for their duality, it's not based on religious beliefs, but on other things.

[Slacker]

INFj-ESTj and ENFp-ISTp: We have fun exploring the same things and sensations. We want to understand each other and find the same kind of information useful.

I am suggesting that, very simplistically, these are the points that, when they are not met, are most likely to cause a failure in the relationships of these types.

For instance -- let us take Slacker Mom's marriage (ENFp-ISTp). I do know that she doesn't share his enthusiasm for cars and such Smile -- but surely what I described works in other things, on other levels?

Yeah I'm not really into cars, but I do go along to the car shows and what-not. Generally speaking, we do very much enjoy spending a day each weekend hanging out and wandering around doing fun stuff. We'd do that all the time if we could. We go to the beach, or the park, or whatever. We love traveling too. His work gets in the way of that a bit. Of course it pays for it too.

As for finding the same information useful - do you mean anything specific? That sounds possible but it isn't anything I've really thought about before. We email news articles back and forth all the time and I'd say it's almost 100% that if he's interested in a news article (no matter the subject) I will be, and vice-versa.

Don't all couples want to understand each other?

[Expat]

As for finding the same information useful - do you mean anything specific? That sounds possible but it isn't anything I've really thought about before. We email news articles back and forth all the time and I'd say it's almost 100% that if he's interested in a news article (no matter the subject) I will be, and vice-versa.

The question I'd ask is -- do all couples even e-mail news articles back and forth all the time? That's more a thing.

Don't all couples want to understand each other?

Sure, but I think it works differently.

[Joy]

This should work for any relationships within the same quadra then, right?

[Blaze]

As for finding the same information useful - do you mean anything specific? That sounds possible but it isn't anything I've really thought about before. We email news articles back and forth all the time and I'd say it's almost 100% that if he's interested in a news article (no matter the subject) I will be, and vice-versa.

The question I'd ask is -- do all couples even e-mail news articles back and forth all the time? That's more a thing.

Don't all couples want to understand each other?

Sure, but I think it works differently.

emailing news articles must be totally Te. i get them all the time from my estj mom and hardly ever read them, lol.

[Expat]

This should work for any relationships within the same quadra then, right?

Yes, I could have also named them after Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

Where the difference between the specific combinations lies in the greater or lesser compatibilibity of temperaments and functions, but I think that what I listed still holds.

[eunice]

I like this one the most based on first impression, especially the bolded part.

INTp-ESFp and ENTj-ISFj: We want to understand each other and find the same kind of information useful. We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

[Joy]

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

[aestrivex]

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

i hate criteria like this. personally, i find that a lot of the focus directed towards meeting goals is horrendously out of place in my case. i don't know if the same is true for LIEs, but i really don't see a point for setting or meeting goals at all; i find focus on a goal to be a highly wrongheaded and unrealistic approach to a problem.


if this particular tidbit were rephrased slightly, eliminating the word goal and focusing perhaps more on general life focus and understanding (although this is also mentioned under Te/Fi, i think it might fit better here. idk.), then it would perhaps be more accurate.

[Joy]

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

i hate criteria like this. personally, i find that a lot of the focus directed towards meeting goals is horrendously out of place in my case. i don't know if the same is true for LIEs, but i really don't see a point for setting or meeting goals at all; i find focus on a goal to be a highly wrongheaded and unrealistic approach to a problem.


if this particular tidbit were rephrased slightly, eliminating the word goal and focusing perhaps more on general life focus and understanding (although this is also mentioned under Te/Fi, i think it might fit better here. idk.), then it would perhaps be more accurate.

This does seem to be more of a rational thing. I think ESFps need help from INTps in accomplishing their desired goals/lifestyles/objectives though.

[Exodus]

As for finding the same information useful - do you mean anything specific? That sounds possible but it isn't anything I've really thought about before. We email news articles back and forth all the time and I'd say it's almost 100% that if he's interested in a news article (no matter the subject) I will be, and vice-versa.

The question I'd ask is -- do all couples even e-mail news articles back and forth all the time? That's more a thing.

I think it has something to do with Ne too. My dad sends me them all the time.

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

i hate criteria like this. personally, i find that a lot of the focus directed towards meeting goals is horrendously out of place in my case. i don't know if the same is true for LIEs, but i really don't see a point for setting or meeting goals at all; i find focus on a goal to be a highly wrongheaded and unrealistic approach to a problem.

What problem? Who says there's a problem?

My point--you are already implicitly assuming a moral agenda, i.e. a goal. It's impossible to act deliberately without one.

@Expat, how is this different from identifying quadra values? Honestly, I could see much more specific duality descriptions, like the ones here.

[Expat]

if this particular tidbit were rephrased slightly, eliminating the word goal and focusing perhaps more on general life focus and understanding (although this is also mentioned under Te/Fi, i think it might fit better here. idk.), then it would perhaps be more accurate.

You're right -- perhaps "sense of direction" or "where we are going" is better than "goals".

@Expat, how is this different from identifying quadra values?

To those who do understand quadra values, it isn't.

Honestly, I could see much more specific duality descriptions, like the ones here.

1) My objective was to write minimalist descriptions, not specific ones
2) I don't really agree with a lot of those descriptions in the link.

[sara]

Se - Ni: We want to accomplish the same goals in our lives.

This is exactly what I am looking for in friendship and romantic partnership.

[aestrivex]

i hate criteria like this. personally, i find that a lot of the focus directed towards meeting goals is horrendously out of place in my case. i don't know if the same is true for LIEs, but i really don't see a point for setting or meeting goals at all; i find focus on a goal to be a highly wrongheaded and unrealistic approach to a problem.

My point--you are already implicitly assuming a moral agenda, i.e. a goal. It's impossible to act deliberately without one.

IDIOT. you clearly have no idea what "deliberate action" even is. comments like this drive me nuts because they're so stupid, wrongheaded, and completely ignorant of how things actually work.

[UDP]

Hmm...

[Logos]

@Expat, how is this different from identifying quadra values?

To those who do understand quadra values, it isn't.

Is to say that not a bit of conceited? This argument essentially amounts to I am right, because you do not understand, which in no way states the actual validity or truthfulness of your own assertion. Could you not have explained why it is different instead of saying what amounts to a backhanded insult?

[Exodus]

i hate criteria like this. personally, i find that a lot of the focus directed towards meeting goals is horrendously out of place in my case. i don't know if the same is true for LIEs, but i really don't see a point for setting or meeting goals at all; i find focus on a goal to be a highly wrongheaded and unrealistic approach to a problem.

My point--you are already implicitly assuming a moral agenda, i.e. a goal. It's impossible to act deliberately without one.

IDIOT. you clearly have no idea what "deliberate action" even is. comments like this drive me nuts because they're so stupid, wrongheaded, and completely ignorant of how things actually work.

I love you too.

Honestly, I could see much more specific duality descriptions, like the ones here.

1) My objective was to write minimalist descriptions, not specific ones
2) I don't really agree with a lot of those descriptions in the link.

I'm sorry, that statement was a little hasty. I have seen what you're saying in action; my ESFj sister and I don't share any taste in music--or in anything else, really, except for maybe Heroes (which has been kind of a bonding experience for us). Perhaps that's part of why we aren't very close.

[FDG]

Perhaps that's part of why we aren't very close.

No. It's because otherwise you would want to have sex with her.

[Expat]

@Expat, how is this different from identifying quadra values?

To those who do understand quadra values, it isn't.

Is to say that not a bit of conceited? This argument essentially amounts to I am right, because you do not understand, which in no way states the actual validity or truthfulness of your own assertion. Could you not have explained why it is different instead of saying what amounts to a backhanded insult?

How so? I was not insulting thehotelambush, I was agreeing with him: I said, it isn't different.

[Logos]

@Expat, how is this different from identifying quadra values?

To those who do understand quadra values, it isn't.

Is to say that not a bit of conceited? This argument essentially amounts to I am right, because you do not understand, which in no way states the actual validity or truthfulness of your own assertion. Could you not have explained why it is different instead of saying what amounts to a backhanded insult?

How so? I was not insulting thehotelambush, I was agreeing with him: I said, it isn't different.

Then my apologizes. I incorrectly read the wrong implied words past the the "it isn't."

[Exodus]

Perhaps that's part of why we aren't very close.

No. It's because otherwise you would want to have sex with her.

Honestly, I can see what you're saying here. Sometimes when I get to know and like an ESFj who is much older than me, I have to work hard at maintaining a certain distance.