Hey Hey Hey

[Slacker]

Oh FFS I play Sudoku. My ESFj mother-in-law plays Sudoku. Or however it's spelled. It's a very popular thing. People of many many types might like to do that. Does not make him Ti.

[aestrivex]

Oh FFS I play Sudoku. My ESFj mother-in-law plays Sudoku. Or however it's spelled. It's a very popular thing. People of many many types might like to do that. Does not make him Ti.

read my last post.

[Slacker]

Well actually I just changed my mind and decided he comes across as a Gilly Jr.




EP temperment. Gilly style argumentation. Which drives me crazy BTW. Ne maybe too? ENTp works for me.

[aestrivex]

Well actually I just changed my mind and decided he comes across as a Gilly Jr.




EP temperment. Gilly style argumentation. Which drives me crazy BTW. Ne maybe too? ENTp works for me.

read my second to last post.

[Slacker]

No . . .I'm bored with this and I'm moving on.

[aestrivex]

No . . .I'm bored with this and I'm moving on.

eat a large bag of pepperoni slices.

[Joy]

ENTp.

[Slacker]

No . . .I'm bored with this and I'm moving on.

eat a large bag of pepperoni slices.

[Gilly]

Wow, seeing me pissed off certainly turned everyone's opinions of me right around...Joy, can you really be so convinced after two brief conversations that you're going to go back on everything you've said so far? You people sure confuse me

[Gilly]

And what's this

about?

[Joy]

ESFp was just my initial impression based on what information you gave to describe yourself. Having seen you interact with others though... ENTp simply seems more likely at this point. Have you read any type descriptions?

[XoX]

Extroverted taciturn ("asker") perhaps. Hard to see him as a narrator ("declarer").From the suggested types that would cut out ESTp and ENFp and leave ENTp, ESFp, ENFj and perhaps ESFj. Hard to say anything more. People perceive "Se" from him because he has certain amount of authority in his posts. This could actually be "Fe" which is used to "dominate" the mental atmosphere. I think in written text people often confuse Fe-authority with Se-authority. Me included.

To proceed from here:

Figure out if his temperament is EJ or EP

If it is EP then it shouldn't be too hard to know ENTp from ESFp. NT vs SF type. Ne vs Se. Ti vs Fi. Pretty different from each other.

If it is EJ then it is harder to distinguish between ESFj and ENFj. I'll get back to this if needed.

My guess at the moment...level of certainty is extremely low...ENFj?

I'm quoting my own post How cool. Anyways I add something. I still see more taciturn than narrator. However in the light of recent ENFj and Fe talk I guess it is more likely that EP temperament and ENTp or ESFp is the right way to go. From these I would think ENTp. There was a thread where there was talk about role functions and the "trying hard to make a tough impression" thing is something Se-role types do. ESTps with Ne-role put more effort into trying to look intellectually competent. They don't play the "tough act" that much.

To distinguish between these look-a-like types here is a question to Voyce:
Which of these criticisms would "hit" you harder and irritate you more

a) You are a weak pussy trying to look tough
b) You are a dumbass trying to look intelligent

Basically role hit should be harder than leading function hit so if you chose a) then you are more probably ENTp and if you choose b) then you are more probably ESTp.

I go with EP temperament, taciturn, ENTp for now with ESFp, ENFj, ESFj still on the table and ESTp as a wild card (which I don't believe in).

[aestrivex]

Basically role hit should be harder than leading function hit so if you chose a) then you are more probably ENTp and if you choose b) then you are more probably ESTp.

mmm....

i think this is not representative of what an SLE would do at all. if you want to get under an SLE's skin, telling him he's stupid will do very little. instead, act like an ESI.

[Joy]

Okay, these seem to be the top contenders at this point:

1. Two birds in the bush [he often chooses this option instead of one in his hand]. He is a genius at finding new opportunities and possibilities. What he has completed always seems to him less important compared to the dawning perspectives which are irresistible an inexhaustible. Scientists of this type tend to procrastinate with the publishing of the results of their research, thinking that the greatest discoveries are still ahead. He lives for the future; meanwhile being not acknowledged does not intimidate him. He chooses to do what is interesting rather than what is lucrative.

2. Recharge. He needs to feel emotional enthusiasm and ardor, and thus needs permanent sensory and emotional "recharge". He is unable to supply it himself, so he depends a lot on his surrounding. If nobody feeds him with impressions and positive emotions (nobody can do it as well as his dual The Mediator) – he mopes about life, loses ability to work and taste for life. To compensate for the absence of his dual he begins to mix with a lot of friends, becomes active in social projects, starts up clubs or scientific schools (Sigmund Freud, a representative of this type, invented the concept of sublimation to explain this fact).

3. A leader. He is a good organizer because he remarks potential possibilities in people and situations. If he is to wield power, he needs justification for it: why he must take that position, e.g. a critical situation that nobody else can deal with, assignment from the top. When he takes power, he begins to analyze the needs of his subordinates, tries to provide them with everything and only then makes the necessary demands on them.

4. A servant. His dependence on the emotional ambiance of others produces an effect of extreme compliance in minor and routine things. Having freed himself thus from having to pay attention to such unpleasant things, he switches for his favorite activity – figuring out the essence of things and phenomena. He does not differentiate people into “us” and “them”, tries to be equally polite to everybody.

5. Undifferentiated feeling. He believes that all people in their essence are kind and love one another. Therefore he looks funny enough when the situation requires initiative in expressing feelings – they are not his line at all.

6. Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves.

7. Liberty of communication. He likes familiarity in communication, however, does not show initiative in this, but awaits it from others.

1. The end result. This is the only thing that interests him. All he needs to achieve the final result he considers to be his vested interests. He is a strong-willed, determined person. "If stars shine at night – then somebody wanted it". With all his appearance he demonstrates he is far from being ostentatious, does not care for the impression he makes with others. “I did not understand, please repeat." – used to say Sergey Korolyov, the mastermind of the Soviet space technology. Few of Soviet top executives had the guts to ask this from Beria, the head of the Soviet secret police. All The Commander does is performed with ardor, passionately and must be brought to its conclusion. He has the personality of an untamed struggler, who must come out on top no matter what the cost. "One should not avoid difficulties! One needs to learn how to overcome them" is his motto.

2. Die Hard. The expression "severe but just" became already trivial about this sort of persons. Marshal Zhukov was a really tough person, but only he could say to Stalin: "If you believe that the Head of the Chief Headquarters is capable only of talking gibberish, then he has no reason to be here. I ask you to relieve me of my rank as the Head of the Chief Headquarters and to send to the front". He has no back thoughts about his right to manage other people. Even taking into account his love to collegial discussion of issues, he always reserves the last sentence for himself. This is usually compensated by profound passion for his cause and the ability to seed the same enthusiasm in others.

3. A fine tactician. He quickly grasps the current situation and distribution of power, makes a decision and acts. He is capable of political maneuvering but never forgets his line. He possesses powerful logic function, but this kind of logic is determined and thus biased, its purpose isn’t philosophical speculations but the creative search for the shortcut to finding a solution. It is easier for him to concede his logic than his goal.

4. Dispassionate. He seldom gives in to fear, hatred, and other negative emotions, rarely gets surprised and rarely envies. The more dangerous the situation, the more self-disciplined and resolute he becomes.

5. He does not like to speak about feelings: this is not his line. And if by chance such words slip out, he feels as if he betrayed himself. He is afraid of emotional love, considering it an undeserved luxury. He is anxious of other feelings as well. Perceiving others to be just like him, he has no doubt that he may be desired, but he is seldom sure he can also be loved. He needs his partner’s emotional support and submits his emotions to him. However, in practical activity he never tends to adaptation, but only to dictation.

1. To be or not to be? A serious person focused on global problems. Sees the world in dramatic, even tragic colors. Expects all kinds of trouble. Beethoven's four notes - the theme of fate - sound like the theme of his life. He takes personal problems and addresses them on a global scale. Meanwhile he often also strives to give something back to mankind.

2. Romantic. Tends to permanent doubts and wavering. Sometimes seems to people around him to be an irritable, easily excitable individual. For example any unnecessary movements put him off, because the world as it is already seems to him too dynamic. Does not like to take initiative. He values feelings above cold-minded analysis.

3. Strategist. Knows how to time his efforts. Bravely enters a situation once he had carefully studied it and prepared everything ahead of time. He waits for the right time to make a move, makes arrangements for any possible turn of events, anticipates and plans against any problems, and then acts assertively, without taking a chance. He does not take his job lightly, feels responsible to complete the project he undertakes. Struggles for victory at any cost - it is easier for him to suffer defeat than settle for a compromise. In emergency situations his redundant caution disappears without any trace.

4. Good vs. evil. He never does things he considers as evil, and is very intolerable to evil in others. However, his ethical theory is based on his own principles, without consideration for customs and authority. Sometimes his views on problems of good and evil are very original. In any case he consequently acts on them and insistently defends them.

5. Attentive to people. He is sometimes even imposing and demanding, sympathizes with them, tries to rescue them during hard times. It is not so easy to get along with him, since he is not lighthearted in his attitude towards life. More likely he is a good family man/woman. He expresses his feelings for his partner not so much through material care, as with dramatic narratives and warnings against possible dangers. The latter quality is quite important for his dual (The Inspector) who is not very capable of forecasting future events. You may call him late at night; to your question "Did I wake you up?" he will reply cheerfully "You did!" (The Humanist, who also tends to empathize, will nevertheless reply "Not at all" in a tone of voice that will make you feel ashamed).

6. Unaesthetic in routine. He does not like to take care of routine chores in presence of others as a rule, in general unable to work while being watched. If he can, he will send everyone away to run an errand. He is very fearful that his movements would seem clumsy, unaesthetic.

7. "Proud". He has a characteristic seemingly arrogant way of carrying himself. People may get an impression that he is acting, beefing up his own importance. He is a good leader.

1. Kindness is power. He takes pride in his influence with people, their love and respect, of his own popularity, gladly leads others. He is assertive and kinky in expressing his sexuality, but aloof in dealing with the objective world, mistrustful towards new scientific ideas and in general towards everything things objective, which he perceives as too impersonal. He feels much more confident and therefore has a clear conscience, only in the field of manipulating people.

2. Restless activity, greed for practical actions. He never hides his feelings – en contraire, he takes special pride in them. It is easy for him to sound sincere, when he expresses his true feelings. He expresses his admiration both verbally and with a look in his eyes. He is always an adherent of love in all its aspects, both carnal and psychological, if he needs it. Even when a feeling is of a passing nature, he knows very well what he desires from his lover, has no intention to adapt – only to dictate. He is arrogant, optimistic, before a complicated situation he does not go shy but tries to resolve it immediately in a few decisive moves.

3. He pays a lot of attention to the esthetic and order in his surroundings. Frequently he is the possessor of inborn taste, knows how to dress well and demands the same from his partners. He is attentive to “physical parameters” of his partner. In all his activities he shows a lot of initiative. However, he lacks a sense of measure: he is ever unsure that he has done all he could.

4. Less nagging and more living! His life may be poisoned by the demands of those close to him to think his actions through, to act “rationally”. This is too much for him to withstand, such demands only make him want to act more irrationally, and brush reason aside altogether to spite everyone. In fact, he acts cleverly and logically until someone starts to demand of him to do so, i.e. as long as he is “respected” and “reckoned with”. It is useless to dispute his logic: one can influence him only by challenging him to set aside his goals in favor of other ones, more noble and harder attainable.

5. Laws are cowards’ inventions. His initiative and passion for new undertakings are so great that no criticism, even permanent grumble of his dual (Balzac, The Critic) who condemns almost each display of enthusiasm, can spoil his mood. Moreover: criticizing calms him down, for him it signals that his activities did not pass unnoticed and that he must have done enough.

6. Disappointment. Due to his initiative and demanding nature he frequently feels disappointed with his loved ones: they turn out to be “not what they seemed to be”, not perceptive enough of his whims. The bottom line is that he needs a partner who is easy to adapt to without adapting at all (without changing his own nature). If such a partner is not nearby, he gets up to mischief in order to draw such a person’s attention.

1. (removed for copyright reasons)

2. A Don Juan. He gauges various virtues and talents in the people he meets and cannot hold back from reporting his observations to them with great enthusiasm. Often other people mistake his display of emotions for his real feelings, which earns him the reputation of a Don Juan. In fact, he is quite conservative in his feelings, attached to a close circle of his friends, whose opinions hold great weight for him and totally determine his mood, behavior, and knowledge. If he really is a playboy, he does not hide it.

3. Sensitive. His speech is often romantic, his smiles are enticing, but very often that’s as far as it goes. His motto is ‘emotional power over all and sexual freedom from all’.

4. "Modest". As a rule, he is not ambitious, because he can enjoy the circle of his friends and the anticipation of something interesting. Unlike The Politician, who likes to be an obvious ruler of the situation, he prefers to be its covert ruler. And his influence is directed first of all towards making other people reveal their skills and talents.

5. A scientist. He is sensitive about how others evaluate his mental skills. Often he strives to get a degree in higher learning, achieve scientific recognition and awards: this gives him the opportunity to work with a clear conscience (without having to doubt his qualifications). He is touchy when other people criticize ideas that he holds dear, or deny him and his friends’ talents. This is why he prefers the company of those who share his beliefs.

6. A person of mood. His mood determines everything: plans for the future, self-estimation, and ideas about the world. Ambitious plans can change to disappointment and sadness; but interesting news, praise, or an unexpected interesting opportunity immediately lifts his spirits. Boredom can even make him ill.

7. Altruistic. He is ready to help other people in solving their personal problems. The greatest pleasure for him is to find a way out from the situation that others consider hopeless. He is capable of demonstrating friendliness and benevolence to all. However, he saves his real efforts for about whom he is serious, and in this case he does much more than people ever expect from him and more than he himself promises.

[Gilly]

I like having my intelligence underestimated sometimes for the sheer sake of suprising people, but I don't like people walking away with the impression of me as a dimwit. Anyone who calls me dumb openly gets an eye roll and a good dose of evidence to the contary :wink:

Likewise, if someone called me a pussy, I'd probably show them how much more of a pussy they are than I

Either way, they're going to end up being proven wrong

[XoX]

Basically role hit should be harder than leading function hit so if you chose a) then you are more probably ENTp and if you choose b) then you are more probably ESTp.

mmm....

i think this is not representative of what an SLE would do at all. if you want to get under an SLE's skin, telling him he's stupid will do very little. instead, act like an ESI.

The point is that SLE is more secure about his power than intelligence and ILE is more secure about his intelligence than power. This is based on the idea that Expat once presented that role hit hurts even more than PoLR hit. Many people just don't care about their PoLR enough to be irritated but most people get irritated if their role is threathened. At the same time if your leading function is "hit" you are usually quite unaffected because you are so sure about using it.

[aestrivex]

The point is that SLE is more secure about his power than intelligence and ILE is more secure about his intelligence than power.

uh, no. Ne =! intelligence.

[Joy]

no no no... Ne + Ti is more likely to be an "intellectual" than other types. I don't care if this is a "stereotype".

[aestrivex]

no no no... Ne + Ti is more likely to be an "intellectual" than other types. I don't care if this is a "stereotype".

uh, no. complete conjecture and completely inaccurate.

[Joy]

You mean to say that the typical ENTp or INTj isn't interested in science and philosophy?

[aestrivex]

You mean to say that the typical ENTp or INTj isn't interested in science and philosophy?

did i say that?

[Joy]

My point is that it depends on how you define "an intellectual" (which is why I put it in quotations).

[Gilly]

Those are from socioniko.net, no? The ESFp one you posted is ESFj

Caius Julius Caesar - the first Roman Emperor.

1. Kindness is power. He takes pride in his influence with people, their love and respect, of his own popularity, gladly leads others. He is assertive and kinky in expressing his sexuality, but aloof in dealing with the objective world, mistrustful towards new scientific ideas and in general towards everything things objective, which he perceives as too impersonal. He feels much more confident and therefore has a clear conscience, only in the field of manipulating people.

2. Restless activity, greed for practical actions. He never hides his feelings – en contraire, he takes special pride in them. It is easy for him to sound sincere, when he expresses his true feelings. He expresses his admiration both verbally and with a look in his eyes. He is always an adherent of love in all its aspects, both carnal and psychological, if he needs it. Even when a feeling is of a passing nature, he knows very well what he desires from his lover, has no intention to adapt – only to dictate. He is arrogant, optimistic, before a complicated situation he does not go shy but tries to resolve it immediately in a few decisive moves.

3. He pays a lot of attention to the esthetic and order in his surroundings. Frequently he is the possessor of inborn taste, knows how to dress well and demands the same from his partners. He is attentive to “physical parameters” of his partner. In all his activities he shows a lot of initiative. However, he lacks a sense of measure: he is ever unsure that he has done all he could.

4. Less nagging and more living! His life may be poisoned by the demands of those close to him to think his actions through, to act “rationally”. This is too much for him to withstand, such demands only make him want to act more irrationally, and brush reason aside altogether to spite everyone. In fact, he acts cleverly and logically until someone starts to demand of him to do so, i.e. as long as he is “respected” and “reckoned with”. It is useless to dispute his logic: one can influence him only by challenging him to set aside his goals in favor of other ones, more noble and harder attainable.

5. Laws are cowards’ inventions. His initiative and passion for new undertakings are so great that no criticism, even permanent grumble of his dual (Balzac, The Critic) who condemns almost each display of enthusiasm, can spoil his mood. Moreover: criticizing calms him down, for him it signals that his activities did not pass unnoticed and that he must have done enough.

6. Disappointment. Due to his initiative and demanding nature he frequently feels disappointed with his loved ones: they turn out to be “not what they seemed to be”, not perceptive enough of his whims. The bottom line is that he needs a partner who is easy to adapt to without adapting at all (without changing his own nature). If such a partner is not nearby, he gets up to mischief in order to draw such a person’s attention.

I've looked over these briefly, and I see a bit of myself in this one and each of the one's you've posted. The bits that I think are most like me are:

ESFp:
1 (except the scientific ideas and objective world part...only an idiot rejects something just because it's new, and, as I've said, I think logic is, if nothing else, a good tool for thinking in general.)
2 (minus the practical part...fun or stimulating would be better)
3 (minus the surroundings...I definitely like to look good, but my room sometimes degenerates into a mess )
4, 5, and 6 are ok.

ENTp:
1 (but I DO like to take credit, and I can tell when I've accomplished something worthwhile)
2 (emotional reciprocity is VERY important; I hate gushiness and people blabbing about their emotions, but obviously I need to feel loved)
3 (First and last sentences only, I think)
NOT 4
5 and 6 are fine, except the last part: I LOVE competition, and having authority never bothers me unless it entails a bunch of boring responsibilities


ESTp:
1 (minus the end result...it's important to have fun on the way, too )
2
3 (especially the part about "shortcut to a solution;" TOTALLY me.)
4 (minus the discipline...nobody would EVER call me disciplined )
5 (for sure...I can definitely convey a mood, but I don't open up emotionally to someone unless I'm close to them, and I have their confidence as well; lke I said, emotional reciprocity is key in any relationship)

ENFj:
Not 1
2 (Romantic, excitable, but not the rest)
3 (only planning for possible outcomes, defeat>compromise)
4 (I don't think much about people judging things in terms of "good and evil," but I do make my own principles. But I expect people to do the same, and I'm not going to force mine on them unless their principles have consequences for me)
5 (First two and last sentences only)
Not 6
7

ESFj :wink: :
1
2 (Second and third to last only)
3 (People have always told me that I'm a good listener and give the impression of being very trustworthy in personal matters, but other than that, none of this is really super-"me;" maybea little, but not to an outstanding degree)
Not 4 (except for working alone and the last two sentences)
Not 5 (except that I like to dress up )
6 (although I'm not always especially "emotionally charged")

ENFp:
2 (although I don't really ever comment about people's talents, the rest fits)
3 (I guess...?)
Not 4 (although I OBVIOUSLY enjoy my friends; they wouldn't be my friends if I didn't )
5, although it sounds too touchy for me. I like my friends to have different opinions, one because I like to argue, but two because I love expanding my worldview; more people = greater scope of life.
6 and 7 are perfect



Fewf, that took a while...

[Joy]

fixed

[Gilly]

So what am I?

[discojoe]

So what am I?

Kind of setting yourself up there. I can think of about a million adjectives that are not entirely favorable.

[Gilly]

So what am I?

Kind of setting yourself up there. I can think of about a million adjectives that are not entirely favorable.

When I want your opinion, I'll beat the life out of you and take it with a pair of forceps.

[discojoe]

Voyce Is On Your Ignore List.

What's that Voyce? My idiot filter seems to be working better than usual, so you'll have to speak up.

[Gilly]

Apparently big men like to run from their problems.

Oh well, I might as well reciprocate.

[discojoe]

Voyce Is On Your Ignore List.

I see you.... still haven't quite caught on yet. Oh well, I guess you want everyone else to think you're witty/smart/whatever, so you keep responding to impress them. Hehe.

[Gilly]

Is this guy still talking? Someone fetch me a pillow...

[XoX]

The point is that SLE is more secure about his power than intelligence and ILE is more secure about his intelligence than power.

uh, no. Ne =! intelligence.

And Se =! power. However Se is related to perception of power and Ne is related to perception of "intelligence" (or something like that). It should still work. The word intelligence could be replaced with something else but I can't figure out a better word.

[discojoe]

Voyce Is On Your Ignore List.

Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. You know what? You are better than me, and smart and witty and dynamic and all the things that I could never be that will make women want you. What a guy.

[Gilly]

Curiosity is just BEGGING me to press unignore and rip this guy a new one...

[discojoe]

yawn

[Gilly]

words

[discojoe]

Apparently big men like to run from their problems.

Oh well, I might as well reciprocate.

I didn't know "running from my problems" meant "avoiding an egocentric idiot."

[Gilly]

He's going on over here too? LoL

I wonder how long it will take for him to figure it out...

[discojoe]

ROFL

[vague]

You two are precious.

And I agree, he is like Gilly-lite. ENTp seems more suitable than ENFj.