Hey Hey Hey

[Blaze]

take a chill pill gilligan. your weak Fi is just showing now.

You're furthering my case for your Socionics-related ignorance.

you're building a case for your poor listening and understanding skills.

[Gilly]

i never said sle wasn't smart. i said ile's forcefulness comes from intellectual confidence. sle's comes from volitional power. people are smart about all different kinds of things.

You're still missing what I'm saying. There is NO connection between Ne+Ti and intellectual confidence. Not even a little bit. If anything, it's going to come from a strong logic function.

[Gilly]

take a chill pill gilligan. your weak Fi is just showing now.

You're furthering my case for your Socionics-related ignorance.

you're building a case for your poor listening and understanding skills.

Now you're building a case for good old fashioned general ignorance. And intellectual insecurity to boot.

Talk about irony.

[Jonathan]

Everything points to ESFp (SEE) here. I see much more evidence for Fi than Ti. Taking a course in formal logic, or valuing it as something good, in no way means someone is a T type, let alone a Ti type. Nevertheless, considering types similar to ESFp (such as ESTp or ENFj) at least makes more sense than types that aren't even close.

One of the things about this forum is that people here (myself included sometimes) often seem to give apparently equal weight to highly remote possibilities as to the obvious ones.

Voyce, would you think that perhaps one of your strengths is seeing what's common sense, seeing the obvious stuff, while others are kind of stuck in their twisted logic? That would be a typical Se trait.

[Blaze]

i never said sle wasn't smart. i said ile's forcefulness comes from intellectual confidence. sle's comes from volitional power. people are smart about all different kinds of things.

You're still missing what I'm saying. There is NO connection between Ne+Ti and intellectual confidence. Not even a little bit. If anything, it's going to come from a strong logic function.

i disagree.

[Blaze]

take a chill pill gilligan. your weak Fi is just showing now.

You're furthering my case for your Socionics-related ignorance.

you're building a case for your poor listening and understanding skills.

Now you're building a case for good old fashioned general ignorance. And intellectual insecurity to boot.

Talk about irony.

whateva. gilly, if you're depressed, try lexapro. it works. really!

[Gilly]

Well, I'm bipolar, so lexapro would probably throw me into a manic rampage, going on another 3-month drug binge/spending spree/generally debaucherous streak. Not how I plan on advancing myself in the world. And I'm already on meds; nothing I've tried so far has worked.

[Blaze]

oh. enjoy your manic phase? j/k. :wink:

gilly stay away from alcohol and drugs, they really are miz, and you don't need the extra problems they bring, for sure.

[snegledmaca]

Boy... he's like the spitting image of this EIE wanna be SLE that I know. Also reminds me of that thread UDP made about that "ESTp with no game". All in all I'd say no game but a strong desire that there is some which is accomplished through overcompensation as that type of behavior doesn't come naturally. (Which could also be explained by gilly's suggestion that he is IEE but I'm not so sure. I think to "stress" Se like that you at least have to have it as a quadra value, but I could be wrong)

[Gilly]

oh. enjoy your manic phase? j/k. :wink:

seriously though, i feel ya. i'm like a lunatic lately what with being only 6 months out of my divorce. my life is like a roller coaster. and i just went off meds, just so i could add even more to the discomfort and pain, i spose. oh well, ya gotta feel your feelings sometime, i'd rather do it now than later.

gilly stay away from alcohol and drugs, they really are miz, and you don't need the extra problems they bring, for sure.

Precisely why I'm giving them up. Except for a little on the weekends, of course

[vague]

I get the same impression as Sneg. The information presented seems a bit exaggerated and the writing style has an enthusiastic pop to it like a lot of Fe subtype ENFjs I've observed. I will not offer further explaination for my agreement. [perhaps I am unable to. For this you may label me unintelligent].

[aestrivex]

i have a hard time seeing EXFp. this is not based on the fact that he takes logic, but rather his attitude towards it seems very Ti-oriented. i won't quote exactly, but he said something to the extent that it was an incredibly useful skill to possess good thinking and that he had little respect for someone who couldn't logically think through a situation. the whole anti-productivity thing, if of dubious importance by itself, strongly reinforces this idea of Ti being a highly useful ability.

which is why i'm really confused, because everything that has been said regarding relationships at least looks to be creative Fi, and i think ESFp fits fairly well with the general outlook.

[Gilly]

Exaggerated? Wannabe? No game? Yall give me no credit And snegledmaca seems like a judgmental little dyke...

[Kim]

Exaggerated? Wannabe? No game? Yall give me no credit And snegledmaca seems like a judgmental little dyke...

As I said...

PS: ESTp that is.

[Gilly]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

[oyburger]

Sneg is male.

ESTp? maybe.

[Khamelion]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

[Khamelion]

People hardly ever introduce themselves properly anyhow. He pretty much said he won't be honest about certain things. He wants to look cool, like a lot of people. The way he is doing it is Se I think, at least, that is the similarity between my ESFp friends and him.

OR, it is WEAK Se...and the keyword here was "trying".


That's all I could muster George >.<

[Jonathan]

i have a hard time seeing EXFp. this is not based on the fact that he takes logic, but rather his attitude towards it seems very Ti-oriented. i won't quote exactly, but he said something to the extent that it was an incredibly useful skill to possess good thinking and that he had little respect for someone who couldn't logically think through a situation. the whole anti-productivity thing, if of dubious importance by itself, strongly reinforces this idea of Ti being a highly useful ability.

which is why i'm really confused, because everything that has been said regarding relationships at least looks to be creative Fi, and i think ESFp fits fairly well with the general outlook.

"Useful skill to possess good thinking and that he had little respect for someone who couldn't logically think through a situation" would tend to seem like Ti. However, we've seen ample evidence that in Socionics (depending on which school of course), it could just as easily be Te. Think of the people on the forum who are accepted as being Te: Expat, Smilex, etc. Don't they also seem to be people who can think logically through a situation?

Also, one thing on this forum (and sometimes elsewhere in Socionics) that I think can be a little misleading is to pit the I/E versions against each other in determining type...i.e., assuming that someone who seems ESp who expresses emotions a lot outwardly must therefore be ESTp because Fe > Fi. I can see where people may think so, but my experience is that F people tend to show F in ways that seem both Fe and Fi. The movie Rocky's a particularly good example; there were times near the beginning where I was thinking ESTp, but I think Rick's right that Rocky's ESFp.

Anyhow, it's most useful, in typing, to look at what ambiguities exist. Common alternative types for someone who seems to be ESFp (based on statistics on Dmitri's site) would be ENFp, ESFj, and ENFj. It also makes sense that ESTps and ESFps may seem close.

@Voyce, what do you think? Other than ESFp, what other alternatives are you considering? How certain/uncertain are you about your type?

[XoX]

Extroverted taciturn ("asker") perhaps. Hard to see him as a narrator ("declarer").From the suggested types that would cut out ESTp and ENFp and leave ENTp, ESFp, ENFj and perhaps ESFj. Hard to say anything more. People perceive "Se" from him because he has certain amount of authority in his posts. This could actually be "Fe" which is used to "dominate" the mental atmosphere. I think in written text people often confuse Fe-authority with Se-authority. Me included.

To proceed from here:

Figure out if his temperament is EJ or EP

If it is EP then it shouldn't be too hard to know ENTp from ESFp. NT vs SF type. Ne vs Se. Ti vs Fi. Pretty different from each other.

If it is EJ then it is harder to distinguish between ESFj and ENFj. I'll get back to this if needed.

My guess at the moment...level of certainty is extremely low...ENFj?

[snegledmaca]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

I agree.

[Exodus]

For what it's worth, everything I've read makes me think I'm an F type.

Just the fact that a guy is willing to admit that is good evidence against T.

Like I said, creating a specific impression is definitely my #1 defining personality trait.

Hmmm...

[Gilly]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

I agree.

Ok, what the hell have I said that makes you want to "call me out" or whatever? Just because I remind you of your lame-ass friend? Who isn't going to object to being called fake and lame? You're over-analyzing me, and flattering yourselves by pretending like you can tell what kind of person I am from a few little self-descriptions. Take it somewhere else.

[vague]

Like I said, creating a specific impression is definitely my #1 defining personality trait.

Hmmm...

Isn't this a typical trait of ENFjs? The tendency to wear a plethora of masks as Voyce has indicated he does. Either way, it sounds like the concern of an dominant.

[aestrivex]

as mundane as it may sound, how do you feel about games like sudoku and other similar logic puzzles?

[Gilly]

Sudoku is boring as hell. I like some logic puzzles, and I've always been good at math (I can do pretty much any calculations I'll ever need to do for practical purposes in my head), but generally stuff like IQ tests and math "games" tend to bore the shit out of me.

[aestrivex]

you said earlier that you thought proper logical thinking was a critically important asset. sudoku, however, is a game based entirely on the principles of logic. wouldn't it then be reasonable to suggest that playing sudoku, and thus excercising one's capacity to perform logical analyses, would be an appropriate example of correct thinking?

[Exodus]

Like I said, creating a specific impression is definitely my #1 defining personality trait.

Hmmm...

Isn't this a typical trait of ENFjs? The tendency to wear a plethora of masks as Voyce has indicated he does. Either way, it sounds like the concern of an dominant.

Yes, given that statement ENFj is a good possibility.

Rick's type messages would indicate that ESFp (SEE) works a little better:

EIE - Riveting attention and energy to meaningful causes.
SEE - Making an impression on people and holding their attention.

I'm still convinced of ESFp.

Sorry, Voyce, if this sounds pedantic and over-analytical to you. Socionics does have many benefits, and I encourage you to find your correct type--that is the first step.

[Gilly]

Yeah, and it's a great exercise, but that sure as shit doesn't make it fun Learning the super-specific rules and strategy is boring; no room for creativity or anything that I call worthwhile entertainment.

[Gilly]

Like I said, creating a specific impression is definitely my #1 defining personality trait.

Hmmm...

Isn't this a typical trait of ENFjs? The tendency to wear a plethora of masks as Voyce has indicated he does. Either way, it sounds like the concern of an dominant.

Yes, given that statement ENFj is a good possibility.

Rick's type messages would indicate that ESFp (SEE) works a little better:

EIE - Riveting attention and energy to meaningful causes.
SEE - Making an impression on people and holding their attention.

I'm still convinced of ESFp.

Sorry, Voyce, if this sounds pedantic and over-analytical to you. Socionics does have many benefits, and I encourage you to find your correct type--that is the first step.

I don't see anything pedantic about it...you're being constructive in helping me figure out my type, so as far as I'm concerned, you're in the good book

[aestrivex]

hmmm...


i would tend to say that you are most likely an Fe type (probably EIE) from your response. it strikes me that an SEE or IEE would completely reject such a use of Ti (which i attempted to use in justifying the logical excercise of sudoku), even if they weren't exactly sure why the idea was wrong.

i really have a hard time seeing an SEE or IEE be as supportive of Ti-style logic as you seem to be. thus, EIE is starting to look like the most plausible option, although i still wouldn't entirely discount ILE and maybe SLE; you do come off as a rather impulsive and overactive EP type.

[Gilly]

Wouldn't that make me one of these?

extraverted ethics blocked with introverted intuition:
This quadra encourages dramatic self-expression with elements of theatricism and melodrama. They enjoy finding artistic means to express romantic, abstract ideals and feelings.

Sounds too superficial and over-dramatic to be me. No baby mama drama here

[Gilly]

i would tend to say that you are most likely an Fe type (probably EIE) from your response. it strikes me that an SEE or IEE would completely reject such a use of Ti (which i attempted to use in justifying the logical excercise of sudoku), even if they weren't exactly sure why the idea was wrong.

But I don't reject formal or symbolic logic...they're some of my favorite studies. So how can I like those and still be SEE or IEE, and yet not rejecting Sudoku completely makes me like Ti? There's logic for you :wink:

[aestrivex]

i would say that it would be better to read through a whole description before judging the type, as these one-sentence long sound bytes can be misleading. if you're interested, i would suggest rick's description on EIEs here. there are a number of other ones, but there are widely varying opinions on which ones are accurate and which ones are complete bull.


if, however, you don't think EIE fits well, my next guess would be ILE and then SLE, but i guess the other two EP types would still be possible, despite the very uncharacteristic pro-Ti views on logic that you seem to hold.

[Gilly]

That description sounds superficial to me as well. It seems like they try too hard to "be somebody." My version of creating impression is more about having a complex persona and seeing the different people that I can find in myself, not drawing attention or defining myself by a cause.

For example, this:

Many EIEs have so many different personas that they wonder who they are "in reality."

is completely foreign to me. I AM all of the different faces I put on; the fact that I don't reveal all of myself to any one person (except, of course, very close friends) doesn't make me have an identity crisis

[aestrivex]

But I don't reject formal or symbolic logic...they're some of my favorite studies. So how can I like those and still be SEE or IEE, and yet not rejecting Sudoku completely makes me like Ti? There's logic for you :wink:

actually, the reason that i decided you most likely support Ti has nothing to do with your preference for sudoku or not. i personally agree with you that sudoku, while it may be an interesting little time waster at times, is not terribly interesting or useful.


rather, i am basing this judgment on your reaction to my suggestion that sudoku, by your premise that "logical thinking is good," is a form of logical thinking and is thus "good." in making that argument, i tried to reason purely using what most people would probably call Ti, as a hard system of logic unconcerned with environmental factors. to this, i would have expected a strongly negative reaction from a Ti polr type, as i mentioned.

i suppose that something like this might be indicative of some other factors, and is definitely not necessarily conclusive to demonstrate that you do not, indeed, have a Ti polr. i would just find a reaction like that from a Ti polr type to be a little bit odd.

[Khamelion]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

I agree.

Ok, what the hell have I said that makes you want to "call me out" or whatever? Just because I remind you of your lame-ass friend? Who isn't going to object to being called fake and lame? You're over-analyzing me, and flattering yourselves by pretending like you can tell what kind of person I am from a few little self-descriptions. Take it somewhere else.

Well...you put yourself out there for analysis, so why should he take his opinion elsewhere? Because it is unpleasant to you?

I cannot tell what kind of person you are from your post or anything, I can tell you my first impressions. I can tell you my "vibes", but nothing else. Which was my point all along. I don't think you are fake or lame, regardless of what you think of me for whatever reason.

Also, you're being slightly over-defensive. You're asking strangers to help you figure out your personality, you are going to read things that are completely untrue, and things that are right on the dot. It's the internet.

[Gilly]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

I agree.

Ok, what the hell have I said that makes you want to "call me out" or whatever? Just because I remind you of your lame-ass friend? Who isn't going to object to being called fake and lame? You're over-analyzing me, and flattering yourselves by pretending like you can tell what kind of person I am from a few little self-descriptions. Take it somewhere else.

Well...you put yourself out there for analysis, so why should he take his opinion elsewhere? Because it is unpleasant to you?

I cannot tell what kind of person you are from your post or anything, I can tell you my first impressions. I can tell you my "vibes", but nothing else. Which was my point all along. I don't think you are fake or lame, regardless of what you think of me for whatever reason.

Also, you're being slightly over-defensive. You're asking strangers to help you figure out your personality, you are going to read things that are completely untrue, and things that are right on the dot. It's the internet.

No, because he's petty, insulting, and unconstructive.

And why are you agreeing with him if you can't tell what kind of person I am? Just for the sake of agreeing? And you're trying to deny being a follower?

[Joy]

I'm surprised this hasn't been moved to what's my type yet.

[Khamelion]

Wouldn't that make her my dual? And would my dual come off as a little bitch?

Sounds like he just hit a soft spot.

I agree.

Ok, what the hell have I said that makes you want to "call me out" or whatever? Just because I remind you of your lame-ass friend? Who isn't going to object to being called fake and lame? You're over-analyzing me, and flattering yourselves by pretending like you can tell what kind of person I am from a few little self-descriptions. Take it somewhere else.

Well...you put yourself out there for analysis, so why should he take his opinion elsewhere? Because it is unpleasant to you?

I cannot tell what kind of person you are from your post or anything, I can tell you my first impressions. I can tell you my "vibes", but nothing else. Which was my point all along. I don't think you are fake or lame, regardless of what you think of me for whatever reason.

Also, you're being slightly over-defensive. You're asking strangers to help you figure out your personality, you are going to read things that are completely untrue, and things that are right on the dot. It's the internet.

No, because he's petty, insulting, and unconstructive.

And why are you agreeing with him if you can't tell what kind of person I am? Just for the sake of agreeing? And you're trying to deny being a follower?

Oh I just explained this in the other thread. What I was doing was pointing out the point of conflict...I wasn't really agreeing. I'm not really taking a stance yet.

I...don't mind being a follower, as long as my thoughts do not clash with the leader. I'm more like this online, in person I tend to take charge if no one else does, because I hate being idle.