By the look on her face, he seems to be saying, "Shit, my watch stopped..." rather than tell her to hurry up.
By the look on her face, he seems to be saying, "Shit, my watch stopped..." rather than tell her to hurry up.
INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4
"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."
I can see why it would look like that (though I still thinks it looks like he's pointing out the time and saying they need to hurry).
(Cut to snapshot of same still which is being held by a dear old lady. Pull out to reveal she is sitting with a large photo album on her knees, lovingly extracting photos from the pile on top of the album and passing them to her friend sitting on the same settee. Her friend is a young lady, who tears up the photos as they are handed to her. The dear old lady is in a world of her own and does not notice.)
Dear Old Lady : This is Uncle Ted in front of the house.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
This is Uncle Ted at the back of the house.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
And this is Uncle Ted at the side of the house.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
This is Uncle Ted, back again at the front of the house, but you can see the side of the house.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
And this is Uncle Ted even nearer the side of the house, but you can still see the front.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
This is the back of the house, with Uncle Ted coming round the side to the front.
(She hands over the photo and the young lady tears it up)
And this is the Spanish Inquisition hiding behind the coal shed.
(She takes it with her first sign of real interest.)
Young Lady : Oh! I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
(JARRING CHORD.)
Ximinez : Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
OMG YOU LIKE PUPPIES AND BICYCLES YOU MUST BE LIE OR ESI!!!
What I mean to say is that you are correct. They're not those types because they're like that. They're like that (at least in part) because they are those types. Not everybody who exhibits any of those behaviors has to be the same types they are.
The idea here is to point out what I see in them that I attribute to their being an LIE/ESI dual pair based on my understanding of the theory, duality descriptions, and my own experiences. I think it's more useful than the last thread I posted with these photos, which was pretty much just a slide show.
I have always wanted to marry someone like Paul Newman too. Are there even guys who are like him these days?
yep
That's why I think of the socion as a set of 8 dual pairs, not 16 types.Originally Posted by hkkmr
Maybe they're not Beta?What happens is that the preference becomes the type distinction.. and with vague language such as.. "Fe atmosphere" being used to accentuate the description.
Like how many Betas disagree with the Beta Atmosphere.
discipline? not theory?With Socionic being a Fe based discipline. The intent is to see thru and capture the inner motive of our subjects, rather then concentrate on the sometimes alarming similarity in behavior between certain types such as Quasi-Identical, Contrary, Comparative and Look-Alike relationships. Only by observing and remarking on cognitive process can type be successfully explained.
(I'm not sure I'd call seeing one's inner motive Fe, but I'm not interested in debating the point)
Oh?What am I doing... I'm devaluing your Te
paul newman seems so so clearly introverted and she seems so so clearly extraverted. he's quite constrained with no visible Fe. she's got the saleman's smile, so ESI-LIE seems on target.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Ahhhhhhh. I thought LIEs were a bit supermanish.Originally Posted by Joy
I wouldn't have known. My fashion sense is limited to what I think looks quality on me and what doesn't. Fashionistas are slaves and retards because of it.Yeah, I was pointing out the plaid pants with that coat. (I actually didn't notice that at first... I only liked that photo because of what they're doing.)
One of the most typical and obvious things in a LIE-ESI interaction is the ESI reminding the LIE that it's time to do something.Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
She may be asking him what the time is, since he's the only one wearing a watch? Although it looks like she -might- be wearing one too. Who knows?Originally Posted by Expat
INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4
"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."
And many times the LIE saying that it doesn't have to be done until *insert time here*. Then the ESI pointing out that it's almost that time when it's almost that time.Originally Posted by Expat
Another LIE - ESI couple --
King Hussein and Queen Noor
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
they're such a sexy couple, seriously.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
In all honesty, I just love looking at pics of them because the way their interactions appear is almost identical to my interactions with Peter.
And because Paul Newman is super hot.
I still can't see why LIEs are less punctuals than ESIs. Logical+intuitive vs sensing+feeling! Which is the best at time managing??
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
sensory + IJ temperament
Again, Ni is not about calendars and schedules. Those are static points in time. Ni is about underlying cause and effect relationships, the past, and the future. Not Friday, August 2nd at 3:30 pm.
Why on earth would an intuitive type be at keeping on top of a schedule than a sensory type?
ENTjs are Thinking plus EJ temperament, not just intuitive. And ISFjs have Fi as base function, they're not just Se types.
The base function is always stronger than the creative, if we're talking about pure types.
So Te will eventually be responsible for the punctuality, not Ni.
But the issue can be solved this way: you're talking about an heavy Ni-Se ENTj-ISFj couple, I'm talking about an heavy Te-Fe one. Simple.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Isn't Expat a Te-LIE?
I'm worried about you, FDG.
.
Last edited by gracefully; 05-27-2009 at 12:52 PM.
ESI (ISFJ)
Well, if you don't give him a chance, how do you think you could get parking tickets?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
yes and for the following reasons:
I know a ESI LIE couple, they are very happy, have 2 children. He's got two jobs, likes it, is becoming a millionaire soon. He indeed works his ass off, but I never saw any hints that he's neglecting his wife. They are both together for 7 years or so, their age 33.
The next reason might sound stupid, but it isn't. Once you've met your dual and know how great it is, it is first of all, really hard when you lose him. You'll grief a lot. Second, every other type of relationship is way less then duality. You'll find it hard to stay interested in other types, and keep thinking how 'things could have been'. Even if you date someone else, who sais that that person won't become a workaholic and neglect you etc.
So to summarize, I think letting go of your dual is the most idiotic thing to do. (oh and I speak from my own experience :-)
She doesn't sound Fe, neither does him. She sounds 100% ISFj.
Anyway, I like to work, but I don't think I've ever neglected a girlfriend for this. Sometiemes I neglect some sleep, or maybe going out at night, or getting drunk.
I'm not sure about treating people callously; which kind of people does he treat badly? Everybody? In that case, yeah, stay away from him. Just people he thinks are idiots? In that case, since he doesn't think you're an idiot, then he won't treat you callously. Te accepting types are somewhat simple in terms of psychological structure.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
From what I've gathered, there really wasn't a chance for you two to focus on your relationship, because of your studies. Marriage doesn't seem like something that you should consider yet because you guys haven't really been long term in a relationship (only 4 dates?). You might already know your dynamics as friends, but things always change when you're constantly around your romantic partner. I think you need to get to a stage with him where you can directly ask him these questions, or figure these questions out for yourself. I find that relationships need arguments and conflicts in order to grow, so eventually you will have to come into conflict with how he treats people and help him become more aware, so he can change. If you tell him that the way he treats people is turning you away from him, and he doesn't make any effort to change, then you know he's not worth it. I don't mean that people should change for one another, but be aware of their weaknesses and try to round out those areas. If you two are indeed a dual relation, you will show him by how you naturally interact with people and such, when you're around someone constant/long enough, your traits start to rub off on one another, and with duality (I hypothesize) the functions you are weak in but value will start to rub off on each other with the help of one another. I'd say be casual about it until you know you both can invest time in a relationship where you can see each other often, and see how things develop there first. Hope this helped!
Forgive my bluntness, but he sounds like a real jerk to me. It looks like he knows very well when he's being callous - so it's not as if he's genuinely "tactless" in the sense of not being aware of how he comes across - but that he doesn't care, except to his superiors. "Those who can't beat the ass, beat the saddle".
Anyway, rather than duality, this sounds more like some forms of supervision, or benefit.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
We can debate very long whether this is the perfect husband or not, but let me ask it in a more simple way.
What are the odds that you will find and meet a better dual than this one? So one who's also articulate, also intelligent, also expressive face, also childish, a take charge type, but one who takes charge without calling anyone stupid. Oh and who happens to be single...
Please name a time span, and then we'll discuss further.
That's what I'm afraid of, that I won't find another dual. I'm in my early 20s and I don't think the probability of meeting another dual is high (especially one that is also very considerate of others). That's why I don't to completely let him go until I make an informed decision.
ESI (ISFJ)
It depends how much effort you put into it. I had this obsession about finding (a new) dual, but in the end I just discovered that they all had their flaws...
You know there are people out there being happy with an illusionary/mirror/semi-dual who drinks gambles and has no income. You have a luxury problem!
So as I see it, you've got more to lose than to win.
But hey, I don't know the guy, if he's an asshole first class, then dump him :-d
edit: BTW why not just see how things go, you can always decide later right?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I agree with Diana and Expat. Don't worry! The fact that you're in your early twenties is very encouraging. You'll find out so much more about yourself in the next few years and you will meet another person who doesn't give you these doubts. No settling!
IEE
Just take it slow. Do you really have to finalize anything? A relationship by its very nature is an on-going, continuing process. And even though he's a jerk, that won't stop you from being attracted to each other because as long as he's not being a jerk to you, then you probably won't care.
You don't have to 'break up' and you don't have to get married or be 'official.' It sounds like you're still getting to know him, if he really was the one - trust me, you wouldn't be asking strangers online for advice -- you'd be so enthralled by each other the whole world would melt away as that's what happens when real love has occurred.
You just have a good feeling about him, and yeah that can be nice but I just know from personal experience that it takes a lot more than that to make a real relationship work out. It's not love if you have to ask somebody.
Trust your own intuition. Women to me are naturally better at relationships anyway. So it doesn't matter what me or Expat or Diana or anybody says, it just matters what *you* want. Fuck I don't know this guy, I don't know you- so how could I give advice? Based on what you say- it still isn't enough for me to really tell you one way or another what to do with this person.