Transcendent function and socionics

[crazedrat]

i think transcendence can occur within a particular context / circumstance / realm of thought .. i realized the other day my exertion type is the same type of the two girls who have had the most impact on my life . Is this developed as a coincidence, is it a pre-existing & self fulfilling prophecy, or responsive to the type of who I interacted with? i do not know for certain . my instincts tell me my exertion type was responsive to the situation, & developmental. i.e. ... as you learn to play guitar, you may "become" a particular exertion type for guitar within that realm of awareness, through the songs you start playing first.. the music you're listening to at the time, the habits you form, ... etc. I am not sure how this developmental process unfolds in time on a micro level. I imagine it would be something which starts small, and as the learning process progresses, builds upon itself. It may partially depend on other fields of interest which relate to it . i.e., your learning of guitar may be influenced by your prior ability to, for example, keyboard, or play drums. But then if you practice really well, you may develop your guitar abilities to a point where you transcend your drumming abilities. Would that improve your drumming abilities? I am not sure, again .. only in so far as they are relevant to one another. It's all confusing to me. How can it be talked about on a microscopic level ? i don't think it can . But I do think saying you are an exertion type, or saying you have achieved transcendence, must imply a specific context within which this is occuring .. some contexts being very broad, others not so broad.
then again, would there be a general tendency to unite the underlying, lesser systems of awareness / exertion types into compatibility and agreement with the broadest mode of awareness / exertion type (and is there such a thing)? i think so ..
but then again again, the awareness of the existence of XXXx would end up, if this is the case, always being what is strived toward .. within a variety of specific contexts, with varying degrees of success, we strive to become XXXx . Perhaps
So what context would you label your exertion type based on then ? Or maybe that is something which will come to each person, and doesn't need to be asked; and although it will be different for every person, the fact that it is important to them is all that matters. ..I would like to answer this question better. My instinct tells me to look into sexuality further.
So then all that can be really specified about a person, since their exertion type is always subject to change, and always reaching toward XXXx, is their innate potential for the obtainment of this goal within a broad realm of contexts. There should be some way to measure this innate talent, or at least think about it.
Kazmir Dabrowski (sp>), I think was his name, describes a process of social collapse which he claims occurs in people due a variability and sensitivity of the central nervous system - he calls this sensitivity over excitability, and considers it a key prerequisite for the occurence of positive disintegration, the mental process of social structural collapse & reformation. Positive disintegration is rejecting the current accepted social structures in favor of the reformation of a personally defined social structure.. the success of this process occurs in varying degrees

[tcaudilllg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PosKazmir Dabrowskiitive_Disintegration#A_mixed_blessing.3F

What positive disintegration is, that I can tell, is a recounting by Dabrowski of his experience of transcendence. But it's really no different than what Jung said transcendence was. (or immanence, as the case may be). If anything, it's a throwback because Dabrowski insists that experience alone is the trigger for the phenomena, not biorythmic timing. Which leads me to believe, he was a radical immanent himself. Notice the similarities between his stance, and Freud's.... There are a lot of these people and most all of them are academics in some capacity; they are so out there that they can't be employed anywhere else. (except maybe an NGO or a think tank).

[tcaudilllg]

LII and IEI were right.

[MisterNi]

So are you saying that each function in the ego is also paired with the corresponding function in the superego?

Also, what do the + and - mean?

[tcaudilllg]

No, I'm saying each function in the mental block has a partner in the vital block (not its dual). Jung alludes to this fact ("parallel mental process"), and it's built into Model B as well (that's what the inner circuit means in relation to the outer circuit/Model A).

I am basically using Model B to explain critical thinking/post-formal analysis. When you think critically, logic is logic and feeling is feeling, sensation is sensation and intuition and intuition. There is neither extra- nor intra-, only ambi-. External info is seen as the proof of internal conjecture, and internal conjecture is seen as the proof for assumptions regarding the external.

[Beautiful sky]

Thank you Tcaud. EII describes me perfectly.

[tcaudilllg]

We've talked about immanent people, about their imbalances and associated fallacies of reasoning and judgment. As we did, we supposed a center of perfect balance.

Increasingly I am coming to believe that there is no perfect center, that even among the "center" there are confict avoiders and conflict seekers... they just remain uncommittal to either of the extremes of strict activity or passivity. If so, this would mean that a "perfect judge" does not exist, and only temperance and effort can lead one to the truth, which conversely, cannot be simply explained, but must be encouraged.

Take GWB as an example: he's an ideologue. Completely non-conflicted internally, and always ready to fight. He is, however, non-committal to either peace or war, choosing one or the other pursuant to the call of his ideological bent.

[iauiugu]

don't know the particulars of what you are saying, but general philosophy has endless prose on how there is no objective truth to be had, as that suggests that there can be one answer to things, or that there can ever be an answer, when even basic physics can't be predicted, nevermind the reaction to the action of a decision of supposed objectivity.

isn't that one of the points of personality models too? at least that's how i've come to understand it, that types balance each other out so that they can collective approximate a center of tolerance and productivity, a balance, homeostasis.

[ConcreteButterfly]

According to this article, the transcendent function is the process of unifying polar opposite functions (eg. base Ti and suggestive Fe), turning them into something that elevates both:

The Transcendent Function
In Jung’s view, then, extremes should be mediated in order to be pulled back to the center – back towards a sort of middle ground. That is one reason why Jung always stressed the importance of manual and somatic activities like chopping wood and going sailing in his own life.
Since a function-differentiation is an extreme in Jung’s view, the very fact that one is a type implies that one is an extreme with regards to one’s conscious orientation. For example, being an INFJ implies that one is subject to an extreme polarization of N (into consciousness) and S (into unconsciousness).
Yet as we saw from Jung’s reading of Greek philosophy above, whenever there is an extreme, there is (according to Jung) also a regulatory principle that attempts to pull that extreme back towards the center. Within the psyche, this process of mediating the extremes is what Jung called The Transcendent Function.
However, in Jung’s view, the Transcendent Function is not merely pulling every manifest quality back towards an undifferentiated black block. It is not (like Anaximander’s theory) a regressive force that aims to level every high and low – to pull every quality that has emerged in adult life “back up in the womb,” so to speak. (Like with Jung’s theory of Buddhism in Jung: Wandlungen und Symbole der Libido [Franz Deuticke 1925 edition] p. 332-n3) In Jung’s view, the Transcendent Function is a Hegelian progression that takes the emergent qualities (e.g. superior Ni and inferior Se) and elevates them both into a higher unity. (Jung: Psychological Types §824-827)

Here we must state that the Transcendent Function should perhaps rather be called the Transcendent Process to avoid confusing it with the actual functions. We will refer to it as such for the rest of the article.

The Transcendent Process, then, is a process by which the cognitive functions are dislodged from the usual fixed positions in consciousness. When the Transcendent Process is active, it allows for the free play of the functions within the psyche, and the activity of the Transcendent Process is especially related to creative work. (Jung: The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche §168)

Since the function positions are usually fixed within the psyche, the Transcendent Process can only be active at certain points during an individual’s life. But since the Transcendent Process is especially related to creative work, it is reasonable to assume that this process is more often active in artists and in those musicians for whom music is an artistic endeavor.

[Jeremy8419]

Oh. I never read Jung fully, so I didn't know this was an actual thing LOL.

I've done this. Pretty odd. Turns out you're not supposed to do it, though.

When plucking away at Socionics, Model A, Model B, Yermak's Model, and using computing principles, I was able to complete the Information Paradigm. The completed paradigm translates information processing and dimensionality into what is essentially a trans-dimensional equation, God formula, Jedi mind-hack, what have you.

When actualized, that is, when utilizing it within the psyche, it is basically as the above poster described. It's balancing the dual with the self. You see, the real dual is the opposite part of your own psyche. What we refer to as "the dual" is just another person who is similar to the actual dual that resides within us. By tapping into the own self, once you have clearly seen the self, you are able to realize the dual. The real dual is simply the last fracture of the human psyche. When the final fracture happened, you could have gone one way or the other. The real dual is the other way.

Human beings reside within the 4th dimension. Originally, they came from the trans-dimensional. The first fracture to the psyche split it into two halves and it entered the 1st dimension. The next fracture to the psyche split these two halves into four, and it enters into the 2nd dimension. The next fracture split these four into eight, and it enters the 3rd dimension. The final fracture splits the psyche from the eight into sixteen, that is 2^4, and it enters the 4th dimension.

By successfully seeing the self, realizing the dual, and balancing the self and the dual on their conscious parts, the two slowly begin to synchronize and stabilize, until it reaches a sort of "critical mass," if you will, and the two recombine back into the 3rd dimension. Because the information processing is now independent of time, the individual appearing to exist in the 4th dimension is processing information independent of time in a dimension which is time dependent. The result is what is essentially logarithmic intelligence, "transcendent." The individual becomes as a black hole of information, absorbing all. As Jung suggests, it is a "completed personality" (at least compared to 4D) that exists within a world of incomplete personalities. This may seem like an odd as hell side-effect, but, literally everyone was attracted to me. People behaved as iron to a magnet. As I passed people, they would all turn and look, and slowly start, overall, moving closer and closer to me, until I eventually moved out of some sort of range. If you've seen Inception, it was highly similar to whenever the Unconscious manifestations or whatever they are called start to become suspect and move towards the dream intruder. What's odder is that someone made a movie about dreams going 4 (4D) levels deep and having this attraction in it.

Anyways, after the Self/Dual is put together and in the 3D, the combined pair then combines with the combined pair of activity/mirror. This brings it into 2D. This combined Quadra combines with orthogonal Quadra. This enters 1D. This combines with the other 2 Quadra combined. This drops from 1D, returns back into 4D, fully synchronizes as it repeatedly falls from 4 through 1 and back to 4, until it reaches critical mass, and the individual returns to the 5th dimension.

I should point out, "existence" as a whole may be necessary to return to 5D.

Also, still not supposed to do this. So don't.