Experiences with Conflicting Relations

[UDP]

I will also talk about a specific person:



It just gets tiresome having to write lol, and read, at the end of every sentence when we talk on IMs : /
In the below sample, I didn't do it, but I know for certain the IEI's mood would have been better if I did write lols

IEI: the seagull
XXX: oooh
XXX: whats it about
XXX: when is it
IEI: im actually not totally sure what its about lol and its at 6
XXX: flock of seaguls?
XXX: and their 80s one hit wonder?
XXX: "I ran" I think it was
IEI: what? lol
XXX: its a song from the 80s
IEI: lol yea but why did u bring it up?
XXX: the band's name is Flock of Seagulls
IEI: lol yes but...nvm lol
IEI: anyway, thats what im doing lol

: /

They don't deal with Ne very well at all, either. Granted it was an obscure reference, but still...
It seems like I have to be very, very, very linear and just logical with them otherwise they get confused.


They also seem unusually flexible in their beliefs, catering more to Fe than their real positions, at times, it seems. Granted, this one seems to believe some things very much, but still, that same person seems just... too flexible and gelatinous.

[UDP]

I think it shows Fe vs Te a bit. She expected whatever I said to be more dependent on the mood. She'd prefer it if I made it seem more like a joke

"oohh, flock of seagulls baby!!"

something like that. She'd be like "yeah totally! lol I wish lol!". : / It's just not appealing to me. I found it just a little funny or a humorous connection, but we're just coming from different values - I suppose that's the best way to put it. It wasn't supposed to be a joke as in Ha ha ha.

[maze]

My Conflictor pal asked me if she should watch "Knocked up" or some other movies and I totally recommended Knocked up.

She HATED it; the friends were shitards who were doing nothing with their lives and it ruined the movie for her. She was surprised I liked it. She thought we had similar views on things like that. I told her I just thought it was funny and didn't take it personal/too serious at all.

It was kind of an awkward moment. Felt a sudden jolt of...maybe we don't know each other as well as we thought. Quickly moved on to another topic and talked for another hour.

[UDP]

Classic Te/Fe moment:

XXX I have a full day of classes and then senate meeting from 4-5pm
XXX so nothing before that
IEI thats fine, i was thinkin like 6?
XXX I believe that will be ok
IEI gosh way to sound excited about it lol
XXX I was stating a fact, not my level of excitement.

[xyz]

Classic Te/Fe moment:

Good god how that bothers me.

[Park]

Good god how that bothers me.

Tell me about it.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Classic Te/Fe moment:

I don't mean to jump onto the bandwagon, but that is a great conversation. I wouldn't have any idea how to react to that without spoiling the whole conversation or coming up with some witty joke.

[aka-kitsune]

They don't deal with Ne very well at all, either. Granted it was an obscure reference, but still...
It seems like I have to be very, very, very linear and just logical with them otherwise they get confused.

I assume by "They" you're talking abt IEIs as a group? Well, IMO, you may be just encountering an individual person who isn't so swift. I'm usually the one w/the obscure references and baffling all types with my nonlinear train of thought... I've worn out INTps, ENTjs, ENFjs, ENFps with sheer speed of wit.

But, then again, wit and perceptiveness are qualities that I quite deliberately developed over the years.

So, not type-related. Could also be your reference wasn't really funny to yer IEI. That's certainly a case where I'll just groan and perhaps wince, when I feel like somebody's really reaching. It can be painful to watch.

They also seem unusually flexible in their beliefs, catering more to Fe than their real positions, at times, it seems. Granted, this one seems to believe some things very much, but still, that same person seems just... too flexible and gelatinous.

Perhaps it just seems that way. I know I tend to be reluctant to come right out and state my beliefs to everyone. I'll downplay/obfuscate my true position if I sense there's really no common ground between myself and another.

[aka-kitsune]

Classic Te/Fe moment:
XXX I have a full day of classes and then senate meeting from 4-5pm
XXX so nothing before that
IEI thats fine, i was thinkin like 6?
XXX I believe that will be ok
IEI gosh way to sound excited about it lol
XXX I was stating a fact, not my level of excitement.

Ugh. I'd feel like I was talking to Data from Star Trek. Emote a little, dammit!!

[XoX]

Classic Te/Fe moment:
XXX I have a full day of classes and then senate meeting from 4-5pm
XXX so nothing before that
IEI thats fine, i was thinkin like 6?
XXX I believe that will be ok
IEI gosh way to sound excited about it lol
XXX I was stating a fact, not my level of excitement.

Ugh. I'd feel like I was talking to Data from Star Trek. Emote a little, dammit!!

Hmm. Could you reconstruct this discussion in a way which would satisfy you.

[FDG]

Ugh. I'd feel like I was talking to Data from Star Trek. Emote a little, dammit!!

But ISTjs can be like that too for example sometimes. Btw I've never had superficial problems with ISFps, and lately I've gotten to know some.

[aka-kitsune]

Hmm. Could you reconstruct this discussion in a way which would satisfy you...

Classic Te/Fe moment:
XXX I have a full day of classes and then senate meeting from 4-5pm
XXX so nothing before that
IEI thats fine, i was thinkin like 6?
XXX I believe that will be ok
IEI gosh way to sound excited about it lol
XXX

IMO, it might be the "I believe that will be ok" that sounds somewhat akin to "That time will likely be satisfactory. I will make certain to check my timepiece at the appropriate interval." WAY too formal for friendly chatting. And the "I was stating a fact, not my level of excitement. ", well that's just being needlessly literalist. Bo---ring. *yawn*

No fun!

I generally prefer something like: "Sweet!", "Cool", or "Rockin!". I especially appreciate anything clever or approaching snarky. IEI here probly felt the use of formality sounded a bit odd, so tried to inject a little fun into the exchange. We do tend to do that when we feel things are needlessly serious and overly buttoned up.

Also "Senate Meeting" would have def prompted a goofy Roman/toga comment from me. This being rather close to the Ides of March, esp.

[Nico1e]

A weird thing happened between me and a coworker who I suspect is EIE. This is not a big deal, it's just an example of the kind of silly little tiny things that can cause misunderstandings in a conflictor relationship.

I was walking out of the theater after seeing a movie last week or so, and as I was walking out, I saw the EIE with her boyfriend who is LSI/SLE - I'm not sure about his type. He said hello to me. She had her back turned and she was in the process of filling up her bag of popcorn at the dispenser. I said 'hey...' behind her back as I walked by. She didn't answer.

I figured out that she had just been surprised and didn't know who I was, since I was in a strange place where she didn't expect to meet me. She just was stunned and awkward and accidentally didn't say hello back to me. I didn't really care all that much and I understood and forgave her. It was an accident.

However, this tiny little accident became a big deal over the next couple of days. It turned out that when I met her again at work, apparently her boyfriend had explained to her who it was that had said 'hey' to her, and so she knew that she had accidentally ignored me. So she was all awkward with me at work.

We actually went several days not speaking to each other. I couldn't even look at her. The level of embarrassment and awkwardness was intense. Even though I myself knew that it had been a trivial little accident, I couldn't get past the intense feelings that she and I both were mutually feeling when we saw each other. It was this sort of anxiety, shame, and humiliation.

After a couple days of us not speaking to each other at all, not even saying hello, and not even looking at each other, she finally started to say hello to me again, and she started being sort of 'extra nice' to me to show that she wasn't actually mad at me.

This is kind of funny that this happened, and no, I'm not making fun of her either. It was a genuine accident, just a silly little thing, and she felt horribly awkward and wasn't able to talk about it because she and I just can't talk to each other very easily at all about even the smallest things. But this is an example of how a tiny thing can get blown up huge and get out of proportion between conflictors because they just can't talk about it.

[07490]

I think you have the last paragraph right on. I doubt anyone would ever be mad and not talking to someone just because they missed saying a Hello. But I think its the attempt to recall that day again but falls hard to bring up the topic to you, so it looks like she is ignoring you and she doubting whether she should take initiative that makes it look like she is ignoring you. It happens to me a lot. I know SLI takes Introvert Feeling very sensitively and because of that I hold back myself so I don't want to offend them. and if we do happen to talk its more or less neutral; doesn't blown out of proportional or get in to it very in depth.

I noticed your title is "incident get blown out of proportion" Hmm interesting you would say that and maybe because you think shes ignoring you that you would think it's out of proportion... I think its that shes holding back and unsure what to say (to avoid further misunderstanding) which makes you more intense. See if it was an ESE with SI, they wouldn't doubt what they should or not say and favor just starting up conversation with you to knock the tension off. with EIE, weak SI favoring NI, its quite different. She might be watching what she should or not say.

[Nico1e]

Yeah, I think you're right, she was being careful about what she should or shouldn't say. To apologize for it would be awkward. We would sort of have to admit that we like each other. And I was just as stuck as she was, not wanting to say anything.

I really do like her - we've actually had some nice conversations when we've worked together. I sometimes ask her about her ballet dancing, and how that's going, and she told me more about what she will be studying in school for her 'real job,' since she thinks she probably won't be able to make a living doing ballet.

But we don't have these kinds of conversations very often, and she seems to be unsure about whether or not I like her. She hesitated to even apologize to me, and I felt like I couldn't mention it either.

[1981slater]

Remember, after WWI came WWII. When an EIE is involved...

[Nico1e]

Remember, after WWI came WWII. When an EIE is involved...

I suppose anything could happen, but I'm not too worried about it. I'll take my chances.

[Beautiful sky]

I actually have a feeling that none of this had to do with you.

[NewBorn STAR]

I actually have a feeling that none of this had to do with you.

Your picture combined with this message is just PRICELESS. THANK YOU

[Nico1e]

I actually have a feeling that none of this had to do with you.

Well, and I can add some more information. For several reasons, this girl is actually more emotionally sensitive than other suspected EIEs I have known in the past. First, she is slightly fat. She isn't very fat at all in the big scheme of things, however, she is sensitive about it, and she publicly makes fun of herself, and sort of encourages the other people at work to make fun of her, too. So it's just sort of a 'running gag' to say something about her being fat. I don't like hearing this, because I believe that being fat isn't someone's own fault, but that's another story for another day.

Also, she has some kind of family problem, and it seems to make her feel less emotionally secure and less connected and less trusting. Actually, I can't recall what the exact story is. Her mother is dead, if I recall, and she's living with an older relative, maybe a sister. So overall she seems to be more insecure than any other EIE I've ever known, and when I talk to her, I have more anxiety and uncertainty than I usually have with other EIEs.

As for this specific incident, I'm not sure what could be the story behind it, but yeah, I agree, it probably had nothing to do with me personally.

[Nico1e]

I actually have a feeling that none of this had to do with you.

Your picture combined with this message is just PRICELESS. THANK YOU

Which picture? Did I miss something?

[Beautiful sky]

I actually have a feeling that none of this had to do with you.

Well, and I can add some more information. For several reasons, this girl is actually more emotionally sensitive than other suspected EIEs I have known in the past. First, she is slightly fat. She isn't very fat at all in the big scheme of things, however, she is sensitive about it, and she publicly makes fun of herself, and sort of encourages the other people at work to make fun of her, too. So it's just sort of a 'running gag' to say something about her being fat. I don't like hearing this, because I believe that being fat isn't someone's own fault, but that's another story for another day.

Also, she has some kind of family problem, and it seems to make her feel less emotionally secure and less connected and less trusting. Actually, I can't recall what the exact story is. Her mother is dead, if I recall, and she's living with an older relative, maybe a sister. So overall she seems to be more insecure than any other EIE I've ever known, and when I talk to her, I have more anxiety and uncertainty than I usually have with other EIEs.

As for this specific incident, I'm not sure what could be the story behind it, but yeah, I agree, it probably had nothing to do with me personally.

She seems to be an overall unhealthy individual to interact with. Aren't there people at work you can befriend, who may have a healthy sense of relations? This might create emotional/physical distance between you and this girl and give her psychological space to do her own thing and come up with her situation and for you to have healthy interactions at work where you might benefit and have some peace of mind. I'm not saying ignore her. I'm saying find and form relations with others at work who are of closer relations to you than she is. If she needs you to comfort her by some verbal reassurance, I'm sure it's doesn't take a lot to just wish her well.

Her overall behavior towards her own body doesn't seem to be healthy, at all.

You seem to have a pleasant, easy going disposition. I have a feeling that you would like relations with her to be better, not for the sake of finding a better interaction with a conflict, but rather just on a daily, human level. Kind of like saying, "can't we just find some common ground and get along?"

I think one funny trick to conflict relations, especially ones that have this seriousness of dissonance is that they are rather difficult in "improving" because every time you think you've made progress, you find yourself having gone three step backwards and wonder what happened.

Your picture combined with this message is just PRICELESS. THANK YOU

Which picture? Did I miss something?

He's probably talking about my avatar.

[Nico1e]

Your picture combined with this message is just PRICELESS. THANK YOU

Which picture? Did I miss something?

I thought afterwards he meant somebody's avatar, and it might have been mine actually because I look so sad and depressed, and he was putting together a connection between 'looking all sad and depressed' and 'having been snubbed by somebody,' except for some reason he attached the quote to your (Maritsa's) post... and then he seems to have lost interest in the thread and vanished. Oh well.

[Exodus]

A weird thing happened between me and a coworker who I suspect is EIE. This is not a big deal, it's just an example of the kind of silly little tiny things that can cause misunderstandings in a conflictor relationship.

I was walking out of the theater after seeing a movie last week or so, and as I was walking out, I saw the EIE with her boyfriend who is LSI/SLE - I'm not sure about his type. He said hello to me. She had her back turned and she was in the process of filling up her bag of popcorn at the dispenser. I said 'hey...' behind her back as I walked by. She didn't answer.

I figured out that she had just been surprised and didn't know who I was, since I was in a strange place where she didn't expect to meet me. She just was stunned and awkward and accidentally didn't say hello back to me. I didn't really care all that much and I understood and forgave her. It was an accident.

However, this tiny little accident became a big deal over the next couple of days. It turned out that when I met her again at work, apparently her boyfriend had explained to her who it was that had said 'hey' to her, and so she knew that she had accidentally ignored me. So she was all awkward with me at work.

We actually went several days not speaking to each other. I couldn't even look at her. The level of embarrassment and awkwardness was intense. Even though I myself knew that it had been a trivial little accident, I couldn't get past the intense feelings that she and I both were mutually feeling when we saw each other. It was this sort of anxiety, shame, and humiliation.

After a couple days of us not speaking to each other at all, not even saying hello, and not even looking at each other, she finally started to say hello to me again, and she started being sort of 'extra nice' to me to show that she wasn't actually mad at me.

This is kind of funny that this happened, and no, I'm not making fun of her either. It was a genuine accident, just a silly little thing, and she felt horribly awkward and wasn't able to talk about it because she and I just can't talk to each other very easily at all about even the smallest things. But this is an example of how a tiny thing can get blown up huge and get out of proportion between conflictors because they just can't talk about it.

This is absolutely typical of my experiences with SEEs too. Large amounts of awkwardness/trying not to step on each other's toes, not so much actual "conflict".

[Beautiful sky]

What I gather the whole point of conflict relations to be is that they don't listen to you the way you expect and want them to. Thoughts?

[redbaron]

If you keep things factual and simple, it's pretty easy. But problems come in when you're attempting collaboration on any problem or project. Because there is always disagreement on how to go about it. I imagine that every conflicting pair is somewhat different here but for us, the LSE would want to do it his way, and I had to allow that without warning him that he would waste time. I couldn't really "advise" him without him getting upset and/or ignoring me. So what ends up happening is that you begin working individually and never as a team because that's the only way you can function. When you correct each other, it's rarely appreciated, even when done in a polite way. In fact, the only way to get along with your conflict relation is to be extraordinarily polite. That way they know that you're not intending harm and there are fewer misunderstandings. But you have to monitor yourself and deal with them only on a certain level. You can never really bare your soul or tell them what you really think. Because usually it will be met with confusion or surprise or misunderstanding.

It's funny because you can see their value. You see what they bring to the table and you can respect that, even attempt to be encouraging about it. But when push comes to shove, it's not really what YOU value. And over time, they know. They can sense this and it becomes disheartening to both parties.

[Beautiful sky]

I the LSE would want to do it his way, and I had to allow that without warning him that he would waste time.

With this LSE did you ever "monitor" his time? As in say "honey, you've spent three hours on this project and it's exceeding amount of time. I suggest we get something to eat now." You're right about LSE needing to come to their own decisions on their own because they are "controlling" after all. But controlling in a different way than someone who simple needs to be in charge. They are unlike SLE because they don't put out those "program statements regarding need for decisive action."

[Creepy-Snaps]

I get bored if it's purely theory we're discussing. Maritsa, is there an example you could think of? Or a specific person you had in mind, when you started this thread?

[redbaron]

With this LSE did you ever "monitor" his time? As in say "honey, you've spent three hours on this project and it's exceeding amount of time. I suggest we get something to eat now." You're right about LSE needing to come to their own decisions on their own because they are "controlling" after all. But controlling in a different way than someone who simple needs to be in charge. They are unlike SLE because they don't put out those "program statements regarding need for decisive action."

No, usually our conflicts were more like me warning him that if he tries to do this task NOW, it won't be worth his time because he'll have to redo it later due to this or that which is bound to happen. But somehow, he couldn't hear me. Or wouldn't listen.

Sometimes with the kids, we'd be in the museum and I KNEW, I could FEEL the kids and me start to get hungry and I knew that if we didn't stop very soon, we'd have a mess of crabby people on our hands. So I would say, look I think we need to eat something. And he would say no, let's do one more exhibit, they can last awhile longer, can't you, kids? And the kids would nod, but I knew it was a mistake. And every single time we'd wind up with really tired, really hungry people. And I'd be annoyed because I knew it would happen and yet nobody would listen to me! And because I try to "get along", I let him run things and we all paid for it. Frustrating.

[Beautiful sky]

No, usually our conflicts were more like me warning him that if he tries to do this task NOW, it won't be worth his time because he'll have to redo it later due to this or that which is bound to happen. But somehow, he couldn't hear me. Or wouldn't listen.

That was received as an order and LSE don't respond to orders. This is the difference between Ne/Si and Se/Ni where SeNi types concentrate force in time. You're essentially saying NOW is the time concentrating force or action or will in the NOW because it's time.

Sometimes with the kids, we'd be in the museum and I KNEW, I could FEEL the kids and me start to get hungry and I knew that if we didn't stop very soon, we'd have a mess of crabby people on our hands. So I would say, look I think we need to eat something. And he would say no, let's do one more exhibit, they can last awhile longer, can't you, kids? And the kids would nod, but I knew it was a mistake. And every single time we'd wind up with really tired, really hungry people. And I'd be annoyed because I knew it would happen and yet nobody would listen to me! And because I try to "get along", I let him run things and we all paid for it. Frustrating.

Yes. Did you try to plan the lunch hour beforehand? I would say we will do these things but we should eat at 2pm. They don't respond to tips either.

[Beautiful sky]

I get bored if it's purely theory we're discussing. Maritsa, is there an example you could think of? Or a specific person you had in mind, when you started this thread?

Redbarron is doing that. I'm more comfortable with theory and abstract thinking; she can interpret my abstraction for you.

[Beautiful sky]

Redbarron, because LSE are time watchers, they start to use their PoLR function when a decisive time is given; does that make sense?

You planning the lunch time before hand instead of feeling the sensations of time and action (concentrating force in time) gives the LSE the ability to work with their will on their own program..which is watching the time on their own until lunch hour comes up.

This is a major issue I have with SLE/LSI; I can't concentrate force/will in time. I can not run to extinguish fires and flames as they happen. I need to know which one is coming and prepare my energy (in a conserved way of holistic Si) for that event.

[redbaron]

Redbarron, because LSE are time watchers, they start to use their PoLR function when a decisive time is given; does that make sense?

You planning the lunch time before hand instead of feeling the sensations of time and action (concentrating force in time) gives the LSE the ability to work with their will on their own program..which is watching the time on their own until lunch hour comes up.

This is a major issue I have with SLE/LSI; I can't concentrate force/will in time. I can not run to extinguish fires and flames as they happen. I need to know which one is coming and prepare my energy (in a conserved way of holistic Si) for that event.

Yeah well first of all it never occurs to me to "plan" a time to have lunch. Eat when you're hungry. I just don't like to have to be so structured. I remember on our trip to France in 97 we were constantly finding ourselves in the position of suddenly being hungry and completely unable to make a decision as to where to go to eat. I wanted him to say "let's go here" and he wanted that from me I guess, but I couldn't do it. But then I was forced to do it because he refused and we were both crabby about it. Oh it was just a bad scene and it kept on repeating itself over and over. You'd think that we would learn but it's like we couldn't bring ourselves to act in unnatural ways. I refuse to map out the day. I want to be free to spontaneously decide this or that.

In fact, just thinking about this is making me crabby.

[redbaron]

The other thing I realized about LSE (and also from talking to Blaze, whose mother is LSE) is that they pride themselves on being loyal, "true blue" if you will. And they ARE. Totally, 100%. Which is great. Only I always got the feeling that he was loyal just to be loyal. Loyal, not because he loved me or because I earned his loyalty but because that's just the sort of person he was. Like, he couldn't be otherwise. And to me that always seemed uninspiring. Like the very act of BEING loyal negates any reason to be so. I'm baffled by that. It made me feel sad and trapped and unworthy somehow. Useless maybe, or irrelevant. I wanted to scream BUT DON'T YOU CARE WHO I AM?? Only I already knew the answer. No, not really. He didn't care about my specifics. I was just the object of his loyalty.

well fuck that. I want to INSPIRE loyalty. I want something about me to matter, goddammit.

Sorry Maritsa. I think I just turned your thread into a pout fest.

/selfpity

[Beautiful sky]

The other thing I realized about LSE (and also from talking to Blaze, whose mother is LSE) is that they pride themselves on being loyal, "true blue" if you will. And they ARE. Totally, 100%. Which is great. Only I always got the feeling that he was loyal just to be loyal. Loyal, not because he loved me or because I earned his loyalty but because that's just the sort of person he was. Like, he couldn't be otherwise. And to me that always seemed uninspiring. Like the very act of BEING loyal negates any reason to be so. I'm baffled by that. It made me feel sad and trapped and unworthy somehow. Useless maybe, or irrelevant. I wanted to scream BUT DON'T YOU CARE WHO I AM?? Only I already knew the answer. No, not really. He didn't care about my specifics. I was just the object of his loyalty.

well fuck that. I want to INSPIRE loyalty. I want something about me to matter, goddammit.

Sorry Maritsa. I think I just turned your thread into a pout fest.

/selfpity

No you didn't turn my thread into any thing

I love your input and welcome even the off topic rants you may have

[redbaron]

No you didn't turn my thread into any thing

I love your input and welcome even the off topic rants you may have

thank you

I am in the weirdest mood today. angry/crabby. I'm hardly ever this way.

[lemontrees]

The other thing I realized about LSE (and also from talking to Blaze, whose mother is LSE) is that they pride themselves on being loyal, "true blue" if you will. And they ARE. Totally, 100%. Which is great. Only I always got the feeling that he was loyal just to be loyal. Loyal, not because he loved me or because I earned his loyalty but because that's just the sort of person he was. Like, he couldn't be otherwise. And to me that always seemed uninspiring. Like the very act of BEING loyal negates any reason to be so. I'm baffled by that. It made me feel sad and trapped and unworthy somehow. Useless maybe, or irrelevant. I wanted to scream BUT DON'T YOU CARE WHO I AM?? Only I already knew the answer. No, not really. He didn't care about my specifics. I was just the object of his loyalty.

well fuck that. I want to INSPIRE loyalty. I want something about me to matter, goddammit.

Sorry Maritsa. I think I just turned your thread into a pout fest.

/selfpity

That makes total sense, Redbaron.

*hugs*

[Creepy-Snaps]

Redbarron is doing that. I'm more comfortable with theory and abstract thinking; she can interpret my abstraction for you.

It's *Redbaron with 2 'r's', not 3. And I suggested an example, not for me, but for you. If you don't have any specific applications of the theory while you learn, there could be a great risk that you learn the theory wrong, Maritsa.

[Ningyo]

I've had multiple LSE bosses and two for a significant enough length of time that I really got to know them, and the museum instance Redbaron mentioned sounds quite familiar. In my case it's usually like...

The LSE wants to be in control, yet has little idea how to actually manipulate circumstances to get what she wants. She's a GOOD PERSON and I respect her, but she's so damn critical of me, and it goes both ways too, but I'm often "put in my place" for speaking up. She's a lot like my ESE friend in that she typically knows what her goals are and is FULL of energy that never stops driving her, but is clueless about what her obstacles may be. Unlike me, she doesn't remember "what tripped us up last time," she just barrels straight ahead.

I'll give a few examples. We're promoting this new product, which people can get a coupon to get it for free if they donate $1 to a charity through us. She demands that we ask every single customer if they want to donate a dollar without telling them what they'd get out of it--she just wants the money! I start telling them about the reward for donation, and people actually buy it. The mini-monologue I have to give to get them to buy is so long, though, that I sort of forget/give up on it for a while. Later I pick it back up and suggest to her simply taking out the coupon bit and telling them they'll get the product for the $1 donation, and she snaps at me to keep my ideas to myself. She wants to do it HER way. Then when we miss the projected selling mark, she's frustrated and moody for the rest of the night.

Another shorter example is that I often have to remind her to do certain things before the time limit for them expires, which seems to give her the impression that I'm insulting her and she'll treat me somewhat coldly afterwards, even though she was able to accomplish what she had wanted within the allotted amount of time thanks to me having reminding her.

[Beautiful sky]

The LSE wants to be in control, yet has little idea how to actually manipulate circumstances to get what she wants. She's a GOOD PERSON and I respect her, but she's so damn critical of me, and it goes both ways too, but I'm often "put in my place" for speaking up. She's a lot like my ESE friend in that she typically knows what her goals are and is FULL of energy that never stops driving her, but is clueless about what her obstacles may be. Unlike me, she doesn't remember "what tripped us up last time," she just barrels straight ahead.

Thank you Ningyo, for your contribution to this thread and your thoughts and observations are very insightful; especially that LSE and ESE are much alike and in other ways both are quite judgmental and harsh about what people should be like and because neither really understand individual human characteristics, neither can step away from their judgements without good insight into alternative situations. Because of their judgements they are convinced that the way they are doing things is the right way and other ways are not necessary.