ISFJs make me feel bad, inadequate or something

[Dioklecian]

Does anyone else have this problem? They look at me as if there is something wrong with me, and I am not worth or something to that effect.

At other time they look at me admiringly.

Anyone has the same problem with them?

[Joy]

no

[Subteigh]

Yes, I have that problem - that's how I type them as ISFjs. They can be predictably unpredictable.

[Joy]

[Subteigh]

(..but to be fair, not all types find them evil)

[Joy]

that's the second worst way of typing someone lol

[aestrivex]

that's the second worst way of typing someone lol

actually its the √15th worst way.

[Blaze]

i actually know that a person is isfj just by VI. they just have a certain look i've learned to recognize.

i don't have that many problems with them even though they're my conflict though since because of the vi i know who i'm dealing with right away and can adjust accordingly!

[Dioklecian]

i actually know that a person is isfj just by VI. they just have a certain look i've learned to recognize.

i don't have that many problems with them even though they're my conflict though since because of the vi i know who i'm dealing with right away and can adjust accordingly!

What look do they have and how d oyou deal with them?

[Subteigh]

Well, IME, I can leave them in a good mood and come back half an hour later and they have this look as if I've done a giant shit on the carpet. When you ask them why they are doing 'the look', they justify 'the look' by claiming you annoyed them by asking them why they were looking that way, despite the fact they did 'the look' first. It's almost as though in the short timespan since you last saw them, they've found some secret dossier claiming that you've commited some great atrocity, and that they'd 'rather not say anything about it'.

(How you deal with them depends on who they are ).

[Joy]

Why would you try to change their mood?

[Subteigh]

Why would you try to change their mood?

Trying to change their mood is like headbutting a hornet's nest IME (the ISFj bit).

[Joy]

But why would you want to in the first place?

[Subteigh]

Sometimes they do vastly contradictory behaviour to the same thing you do on two different occasions - I try to change their mood by making it more (logically) consistent, but they don't like that too much (at least not the variety).

[Joy]

I have a hard time picturing mood swings as an ISFj type trait.

[Subteigh]

Its not really a mood swing thing - they are like that all the time - they can keep silent for a very long time and you won't know why etc., and then they either blame you for avoiding them or for asking them what's wrong - you can't see the internal dynamics behind the 'logic' that results in their external behaviour.

[Joy]

Because they're not all giddy and extroverted and bubbly? What's wrong with being quiet and stern and disliking it when people probe you about your mood as if it's your responsibility to act happy?

[Subteigh]

Er..when you have previously been told by that person in exactly the same situation not to leave them all by themselves etc., it's wrong in the sense they are inconsistent and blame YOU for acting in the way they told you...

[Joy]

ummmm... I dunno

Of course, my official answer to this thread, Dioklecian, is that no one can MAKE you feel anything.

[Jonathan]

It's hard to make headway here; most people, when describing people who are theoretically supposed to conflict with them in some way, find people who have some sort of problem, and they see such as people as the perfect representatives of that type.

Similarly, when people describe duals, they tend to choose people that are easy to get along with and assume that those are the perfect examples of that type.

So, really, unless you have two people who know the exact same person but have a different Socionic relationship (and actual relationship) with that person, it's really hard to have any sort of objective discussion.

[Joy]

indeed

[implied]

some INTjs can say obnoxious shit which sort of perpetuates "the look" or whatever. they probably think you are irresponsible or not taking them seriously? like i think i might take a "look" like that as a warning signal.

[Subteigh]

'The look' can happen for no reason at all - no reason given anyway. They expect you to act how they think, even if they haven't told you IME.

[Joy]

If someone's asking me about something I'd rather not talk about I try to ignore them and get a subtle "fuck off" look on my face to tell them to stop.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Subteigh]

You shouldn't give people alternate 'advice' on how to deal with them in those situations and then blame the person when they follow that advice.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

[Joy]

He means she told him that if she's like that he shouldn't just leave her alone, but then when he doesn't she gets irritated. Chances are "leave alone" mean different things to each of you.

[implied]

Maybe they're just thinking. I get annoyed when I'm thinking and someone asks why I'm angry, or "what's wrong?" or "why are you looking at me like that?" Might be the same for them, they're just thinking and then you accuse them of something they didn't do, that'd tick anyone off being accused like that.

so do i. like does it have to be that blatant? why can't it just be implied? some people seem to need it to be super duper clear and need someone to say, "i am pissed because bla bla bla." or "i gave you the look because bla bla bla." though.

[Subteigh]

E.g. if someone is down, you shouldn't abandon them and leave them alone, not talking to them, or, if someone is upset, you should stay the fuck away etc.

[Joy]

The problem is that you're not reading her properly and your definition of leaving her alone is different than hers.

[Khamelion]

They can be predictably unpredictable.

I find this to be very true.

[Subteigh]

There can be near identical reasons where she acts differently on both occasions (and to two extremes), and when challenged on the contradiction...ouch. Sometimes I have to ask what to do in a situation considering she's acted differently in the past, and she blames me for being insensitive. Yet, if I follow the most consistent path without asking, there's the possibility of me doing something wrong anyway .

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[implied]

i feel like i have a tiny ISFj burning inside of me ahahaha.


ENTj seems to pay a lot of attention, apparently, to the "looks" and knows how to interpret them. INTjs seem sort of clueless in this arena or more focused on their own thing or something.


i can't make any sense of INTj body language or actions, FWIW.


i find it straight up fucking retarded when people expect other people to be in a good mood all the time, much like joy has stated.

[UDP]

There are no problems with ISFjs for me.

Having and in an ego block, whichever the order, is strange for me. Nevertheless, it can be recognized and not produce bother.

[FDG]

No, not particularly. We are actually usually attracted to each other. Mood swings? Just leave them alone if they act pissy. On a superficial basis, it's generally okay. We respect each other skills and don't really interact that much.

I know extremely well though that I cannot get closer to them. Any signal of Se on their side leads to a double force counterattack from me. Any arguing will never lead to a submission from my side, only an escalation. So, better avoid.

[FDG]

There can be near identical reasons where she acts differently on both occasions (and to two extremes), and when challenged on the contradiction...ouch. Sometimes I have to ask what to do in a situation considering she's acted differently in the past, and she blames me for being insensitive. Yet, if I follow the most consistent path without asking, there's the possibility of me doing something wrong anyway .

Why do you care? Just keep arguing until both of you explode. Blaming should never be taken without responding.

[Dioklecian]

There can be near identical reasons where she acts differently on both occasions (and to two extremes), and when challenged on the contradiction...ouch. Sometimes I have to ask what to do in a situation considering she's acted differently in the past, and she blames me for being insensitive. Yet, if I follow the most consistent path without asking, there's the possibility of me doing something wrong anyway .

Why do you care? Just keep arguing until both of you explode. Blaming should never be taken without responding.

That brilliant actually FDG. (for real).