How can you tell if ISTp likes you? How do ISTps express interest?

[Warlord]

I get the impression that ISTps don't usually say much, right?

This guy was pretty talkative though (aren't ISTps quiet?), but our conversation wasn't awkward.

So within maybe 30 minutes he was like "so I don't get why you're single. why are you single?"

And then he started asking how many dates I go on and if I have any coming up. He asked that several times. The end of the night he said he liked me and asked if I liked him. It seems like he asked that a few times. Isn't that impossible for ISTps?

Then he suggested we take the next day off of work to hang out (huh?) so I didn't say anything and he suggested we get together the next day. I mean, it went well. But it seems usually people are not that forward on a 1st date.

He calls the next day and asks how my day is going (but I sorta wondered if he was like, checking up on me). I mean, this is after 1 date.

Then he texted me at 1am that night to say hi basically -- that sorta confused me. He knows I keep odd hours, but still. So I didn't reply to that.

He got ISTp on the test (very high on S), but it seems like he isn't being anti-social enough and that has me way confused. For instance when I text him, he'll call me. Usually guys only text. Wouldn't an ISTp prefer text?

He did seem ISTp in that there was definite Si, for example he sorta massaged my shoulder a few times and seemed concerned I was cold (even though I wasn't that cold), and also took action when I suggested a place (we were like suddenly going there before I even noticed what was going on).

So, is he not an ISTp? An ISTp who is just trying harder to be outgoing? Are these red flags that he could be potentially controlling? Am I over-analyzing?

Thanks!

Somehow he sounds like an ESTj to me. But that's just an impression.

[Park]

Somehow he sounds like an ESTj to me. But that's just an impression.

Yeah, the taking quick initiative part and being tenacious also gave me that impression. But I don't know, he doesn't really sound eminently ISTp-ish. At this point I'd guess that both ESTj and Si-ISFp are more likely.

[jewels]

hmm...well it's possible. But I still hope he's ISTp! I mean, he did take the test and got that. Time will tell I guess!

[jewels]

and I could be wrong, but i've seen that ISTp expression several times. The smile smirk thing. He also seems somewhat similar to my female ISTp friend, who is also equally straightforward. But like I said who know. I think ESTj would be more possible than ISFp though, because I'm not seeing a lot of Fe.

[meatburger]

and I could be wrong, but i've seen that ISTp expression several times. The smile smirk thing. He also seems somewhat similar to my female ISTp friend, who is also equally straightforward. But like I said who know. I think ESTj would be more possible than ISFp though, because I'm not seeing a lot of Fe.

Those three types are all pretty awesome types so any are good. Just have a good time and time will tell

[mikemex]

It sounds SEI more than SLI and the pattern of the relationship seems to match semi-duality.

[Slacker]

and I could be wrong, but i've seen that ISTp expression several times. The smile smirk thing. He also seems somewhat similar to my female ISTp friend, who is also equally straightforward. But like I said who know. I think ESTj would be more possible than ISFp though, because I'm not seeing a lot of Fe.

Massage, flowers? That sounds like Fe to me - from an introvert.

[Banana Pancakes]

Yeah. If they initiate a telephone call, that's a very good sign.

I've always been pretty good at knowing who is a player without thinking about it that much. I don't know if there's anything type specific. If someone is too smooth, that means he has had lots of practice. And you have to keep track of trolling. Not as in trolls - I mean the fishing term. Like someone riding in a boat but passively keeping a fishing pole off the back of the boat to see if he picks anything up on the ride.

This is funny because my IEE brother has used this exact same metaphor to describe what he does with women. Makes no sense to me.

[jewels]

and I'm curious what is meant by this developing like semi-duality instead of duality. How would I tell the difference?

[tiny_dancer]

This is funny because my IEE brother has used this exact same metaphor to describe what he does with women. Makes no sense to me.

As in your brother is a troller?

[Park]

Thanks everyone for your feedback/analysis.

I don't think he's ESTj because he doesn't like holidays, group sports or company picnics. He also doesn't seem to care that I'm messy.

As for ISFp, I dunno...

He said he's more shy in groups.

He was driving pretty fast.

I tried to ask thinker/feeler questions but he said everything depended on the situation.

He doesn't seem at all interested in personality types. I had him read the descriptions and he kept getting up to fix something on his computer...said it sounded "mostly right"

He's very spontaneous, more so than I am. If I even mention anything he'll be like "do you wanna go? Let's go."

I sorta get the impression that the flowers, etc. are not the way he'd normally be, but that maybe he's not sure what to do. I could be wrong though. He does these things somewhat awkwardly, like w/ the flowers he kept saying "uh is that ok? Can I get you flowers?"

So I guess ISFp or ISTp...hard to tell!

He doesn't sound like me, that's for sure.

[jewels]

it's interesting because I was suuure he was ISTp, yet the consensus here seems to be ISFp. I'm definitely taking that into account.

[jewels]

is there any definitive way for me to tell if he's ISFp or ISTp? I mean usually I'd think that'd be pretty obvious to tell the difference.

Usually ISFps appear more "soft" to me and easier to hurt their feelings. But when ISTps are happy they can look a lot like ISFps. And when ISFps are quiet/serious they can resemble ISTps....

I've known both ISFp and ISTp guys so you'd think I could tell the difference.

anyone?

[jessica129]

Personally I don't think I have anything in common with ISFP's and would doubt anyone would ever mistake me for one. I can't give specific examples soooo...this was pointless. All I can say is I'd probobly not pull socionics into this as it can ruin things fast. He seems like he really likes you and if you like him, I would think it wouldn't matter if he were ISFP or ISTP. But then again...we are on a socionics website...err...

[duality is cringe]

is there any definitive way for me to tell if he's ISFp or ISTp?

First off, you have to learn socionics.

All I can say is I'd probobly not pull socionics into this as it can ruin things fast. He seems like he really likes you and if you like him, I would think it wouldn't matter if he were ISFP or ISTP.

Hellz yeah.

[jewels]

that's a good point Jessica.

[mikemex]

I would think it wouldn't matter if he were ISFP or ISTP.

It DOES matter, I'm sorry to tell you. We often overestimate our ability to overcome problems in a relationship. Even if we believe we're in charge, such relationships follow the predictions to a scary level and if trouble is predicted, it will eventually come out.

If they have a semi-duality relationship, major disagreements are to be expected once they cool down a bit. And it won't matter if she knows about socionics; one thing is to know and another to have the ability to change yourself, much less others.

I'm starting to believe that you can only have healthy relationships with members of your own quadra; all others are to be dysfunctional to some level.

[jessica129]

I think that's where this get's a little dangerous. You start seeing the other only in terms of a socionics type, not a person. Everything they do will be chalked up to the fact that "oh hey, that's okay...he's just being SLI". I can't speak for Jewels but I found myself doing this a lot and it doesn't help things in the slightest. Does the fact that you know someone prefers rationality over irrationality mean anything to you in the grand scheme of things?? If you're happy and the other person is happy for now are you going to give that up just because this person isn't your supposed "dual"? That's ridiculous. Who cares! Are you happy in that moment with that person? That's great and you know what, that's what everyone else is striving for in a relationship so you're already +1 in that regard.

Instead of worrying about future problems, I think it'd be smart to go with how you're feeling at that moment. There are happy couples of every relation and dual couples don't magically remain conflict free their entire lives. This is where I think I've had it with socionics. It's a good tool to find reasons behind others behaviors but when you analyze your relationships to the extent you don't want to even put forth effort on something just because it's not your "match", well...whatever, good luck with that. That seems to me like you'd be setting yourself up for a very lonely life. Jewels, this isn't directed at you necessarily...this is my mini rant as to how I feel about socionics.

[jewels]

Well if you're looking for something serious, you seek out compatible people. Not incompatible ones...so you'd prefer someone who lives closer, and has your basic outlooks in common for the most part. If you meet someone and then learn their passion in life is farming (in the midwest) and what makes you happy is to surf everyday in LA then no matter how much you like each other, you will both be giving up your dream to meet in the middle.

This happens everyday. It's not because you're stereotyping them as a "farmer" or a "surfer" but just because it isn't very compatible. Sure, you can choose to "make it work." Of course. But you have to do all of the work -- and half of the time one person is sad not doing what they love. A surfer sitting in the midwest and a farmer with nothing to do in LA. That situation just isn't as good as a compatible one and it has nothing to do with categorizing people.

And no, I don't see people in terms of a type. But I do understand that what makes them happy and what makes me happy will be related to our type.

And from what I've heard duals do have a lot less conflict than the other types. Of course other things are equally important for avoiding conflict, such as being emotionally mature, kind, respectful, etc. But I don't get this outlook that socionics is only fun to learn about, but should not be applied...that would be like the farmer and surfer ignoring the fact that their passions in life will never mesh (let's assume they have to be a farmer in the midwest and not in LA, you know what I mean...)

[meatburger]

Instead of worrying about future problems, I think it'd be smart to go with how you're feeling at that moment. There are happy couples of every relation and dual couples don't magically remain conflict free their entire lives.

Hey Jess! You know i love you to bits so dont get sad at me but i can really see where Jewels and Mike are comming from on this one (probablly not that suprising considering they are other ENFps). In fact i kind of think this could be a difference between sensors and intuiters. Perhaps what im about to say is a little innacurate though?

Sensors are good at pulling intuiters into the present world, whereas intuiters are often good at forseeing potential problems in the future. For every good relationship you and Diana are talking about, from my point of view i can direct you to two of them that are shitty. If i were to look at my friends group i am the only one who's parents are still together out of about 8 friends. This is the dilemma in just focusing on the now and not having a vision of what is to come.

I think for me this boils down to myself being a perfectionist. I certianlly am not looking for the perfect woman, because that is insane but the idea of duality is very appealing. My parents are look-alikes and they have quite a loving and moderately happy relationship. Do i think however that they would be happier with their duals? Yes in many cases im almost certian. Its like that movie sliding doors. You meet some guy/girl and you decide what the hell i will date them and in the process of this you miss another opportunity with someone who is far better. I agree with what Mike said earlier. People overestimate their abilitity to patch up relationship problems. If someones physical prescence annoys you, you are in some deep shit! I doubt there is much you can do to stop it. I am very good at maintaining relationships but with my conflictor father i have to use all of my willpower to keep things afloat.

With Jewel's situation well hmm semi dual is not a bad relation. The thing is i would much rather be married to someone than search for an ISTp all my life and never find one and be lonely. Still, the idea of being with someone for 20 years and then something happens and we split up and halve our assets and have kids from a broken family however is very aversive to me.

[redbaron]

is there any definitive way for me to tell if he's ISFp or ISTp? I mean usually I'd think that'd be pretty obvious to tell the difference.

Usually ISFps appear more "soft" to me and easier to hurt their feelings. But when ISTps are happy they can look a lot like ISFps. And when ISFps are quiet/serious they can resemble ISTps....

I've known both ISFp and ISTp guys so you'd think I could tell the difference.

anyone?

I know a Si-ISFp who seems very much at times like ISTp. but a couple of things: when he's comfortable and likes someone he'll talk a blue streak rather expressively. He really flashes the Fe when it's just the two of us. We do this Fe-bounce thing where it's just all over the place. But if you didn't know him, he could easily be ISTp. The emotions only come out that way when he's comfortable. And he's a 9 and detests conflict. I would think ISTps might be better with conflict than ISFps but I guess it depends on the individual. I find ISTps to be more serious and steady all the time. SEIs are more emotionally changeable I think. Bouncy. Light. Not all of the time, but sometimes. More.... alpha.

[Slacker]

I think that's where this get's a little dangerous. You start seeing the other only in terms of a socionics type, not a person. Everything they do will be chalked up to the fact that "oh hey, that's okay...he's just being SLI". I can't speak for Jewels but I found myself doing this a lot and it doesn't help things in the slightest. Does the fact that you know someone prefers rationality over irrationality mean anything to you in the grand scheme of things?? If you're happy and the other person is happy for now are you going to give that up just because this person isn't your supposed "dual"? That's ridiculous. Who cares! Are you happy in that moment with that person? That's great and you know what, that's what everyone else is striving for in a relationship so you're already +1 in that regard.

Instead of worrying about future problems, I think it'd be smart to go with how you're feeling at that moment. There are happy couples of every relation and dual couples don't magically remain conflict free their entire lives. This is where I think I've had it with socionics. It's a good tool to find reasons behind others behaviors but when you analyze your relationships to the extent you don't want to even put forth effort on something just because it's not your "match", well...whatever, good luck with that. That seems to me like you'd be setting yourself up for a very lonely life. Jewels, this isn't directed at you necessarily...this is my mini rant as to how I feel about socionics.

+1 And I really get along well with ISFps and have no doubt I could be happily married to one. It wouldn't be as conflict free as my current marriage, but it could absolutely be a very happy marriage.

[meatburger]

+1 And I really get along well with ISFps and have no doubt I could be happily married to one. It wouldn't be as conflict free as my current marriage, but it could absolutely be a very happy marriage.

I think IEE's are a little sensitive in our relationships (they tend to fail easier than most) so we need to be careful. SEI is possibly the only outer quadra one i would bother trying for long term. Anyway we are not sure that he is SEI yet

[redbaron]

I think IEE's are a little sensitive in our relationships (they tend to fail easier than most) so we need to be careful.

Wha?? seriously?

[jewels]

I think IEE's are a little sensitive in our relationships (they tend to fail easier than most) so we need to be careful. SEI is possibly the only outer quadra one i would bother trying for long term. Anyway we are not sure that he is SEI yet

yeah. I think that happens to IEEs for a few reasons. One, we're contradictory in our personalities (even to ourselves) -- this makes us confusing to most people when they fully know us. For instance, we might impulsively do or say something w/o knowing why...or be shy, silly, even weak-seeming one day and demanding, aggressive and impulsive the next, and kind, funny and sweet the following, businesslike and assertive after that, etc. No one knows why, not even us.

Add to that the fact that we usually understand other people pretty deeply, even if they don't quite "get" us. That is frustrating. So we really need someone who "gets" us (and to make it worse we appear easy-to-grasp at first because we are showing our shiny happy side, so just about all types feel comfortable pursuing us, where as w/ other types, bad matches would be naturally repelled.)

Combine that with seeing our own and someone else's future potential, plus the potential of our lives mixed together, yeah...it's sort of like sizing up the foundation of a building that is about to be constructed and understanding the implications of, for instance, it not being level. Might not look like a big deal at the time, but we can picture that building leaning and falling long before others might see it. Ne.

So it doesn't make sense to build a relationship like that because, well, duh. We see all the potential good and bad things and feel a sense of responsibility for where things end up. Just like an ENTp could predict if a system or plan would fail, ENFps can predict that w/ relationships.

So I would agree w/ that. And yeah, there are several types I'm sure ENFps could be happy with, definitely!! But all other factors being equal, why not go for the best outcome?

[meatburger]

Wha?? seriously?

Yeah Jewels summed it up . I think why i said fail more than most is because of our impulsive natures. There is a stereotype regarding ENFp's jumping in and out of lots of relationships and i think its its for a good reason. I mean my INFp ex wanted to stay with me after we broke it off but i just couldn't do it anymore. Clearly her tolerance level was higher than mine (especially because i was probablly being more disruptive to the relationship than she was). I know an ISTp that is hanging onto this guy who is really bad for her and its sad. I am not really capable of trying to repair things / beating a dead horse because if the relationship feels wrong, im probablly going to leave.

Its just my nature that i am so conscious of the little ins and outs of my relationships, that its too stressful to me in many situations that i feel i must escape.

But all other factors being equal, why not go for the best outcome?

Exactly! Perhaps im a bit too into socionics, but i do see intertype relations as being a HUGE factor aswell. For example i would choose a less wealthy and less attractive ISTp over a richer and sexy other type at this point in my life

[redbaron]

i do see intertype relations as being a HUGE factor aswell. For example i would choose a less wealthy and less attractive ISTp over a richer and sexy other type at this point in my life

Makes sense. But I was thinking more about values, interests, goals, dreams, etc. Those things are pretty important (and WAY more important than physical attractiveness and wealth!). Like I said before, I do agree that all other things being equal, go for the dual! I just think that it's easier said than done and that other factors often aren't equal.

[IcEPiCk]

pretty much confirms my theory that y'all be gold diggers just kidding lol.

Very good discussion here...

I am pretty much pro dual. The ENFp may be comfortable with another type in a relationship, but I think the ISTp Needs the ENFp! Anyways...

Ya the hard part is ENFps can seem ADD with relationships... It takes a while for them to realize what they 'want' out of a person perhaps, or the qualities/vibes they can recognize? Perhaps this evolves as the ENFp ages as well... I dunno.

I havent been on the forum in a while.

[Mattie]

For me personally, I find that there's a slight miscommunication between ENFps and ISTps that give ENFps this image of being completely "ADD" with relationships, at least concerning them. I'm experiencing it right now, and have in the past.

I don't know if this is common with ISTps, but the two ISTps that I have been interested tend to fall off the face of the planet at times, and this can be for a multitude of reasons (I don't really know for sure), I tend to guess getting absorbed in their work tend to distract them. But it's almost like they (the ISTps I've encountered) don't expect relationship potential/interest to change while they go into these seclusions, and it confuses someone like me. I take it as disinterest when all of a sudden the ISTp doesn't answer the phone or return calls to hang out, but find it really disheartening when all of the right signs were going on while we were meeting. Then all of a sudden, a month later after I've moved on, there's an interest again. It's like the extreme opposite of relationship fickleness, but in a negative manner.

Am I alone in observing this? (I feel really frustrated by it) I notice this happens with INTps as well.

[Mattie]

It drives me up the wall! Are ISTps aware that they do this and how it effects other people? It's honestly the only reason why I don't see myself with my dual, because this beginning process is such a huge pain in the ass. There are lots of quirks and problems I can work with, but just flat out no communication is like nipping my strength right out of the equation.

[tiny_dancer]

Am I alone in observing this?

I have observed this, but I'm not allowed to complain about it. lol I do this with friendships. An SEE friend of mine is pissed at me right now for it. (In fact, I've noticed all my gamma & beta friends get irritated at their alpha friends for 'disappearing' now and then) BUT the more I know you, and the more comfortable I feel around you, this slowly evaporates... or it doesn't. If I'm extra *extra* comfy around you, I'll hang out with you rain, shine, day, night, no matter how grumpy or exhausted I am. Only my family and best friend fit into this category.

[Mattie]

I have observed this, but I'm not allowed to complain about it. lol I do this with friendships.

I can somewhat relate to this, I've noticed my tendency to have a completely open schedule for those I care about or other people of interest, and those I'm not really thrilled/comfortable with on my own, I notice that I have other obligations to get to. But what's irritating with my interactions with ISTps is that there is a clear attraction, to the point where both of us have said it. Unless ISTps need some sort of other hint to understand the potential of a relationship?

[tiny_dancer]

Yeah, I think it's been easier for me to get past that with the guy I'm hanging out with because we see each other once a week in another setting anyway. So even if we didn't go out on a date, we don't lose touch.

Honestly, I think the only way to actually get anywhere with that situation is to hang out with him once in a while and not give a damn whether it goes anywhere. If it does, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

[Mattie]

Most likely, that's a little hard to swallow, but I think that's the course I'd have to go. Sucks

[jewels]

I dunno. Despite duality...and the fact that both SLIs and IEEs are "hit and miss" with our keeping in contact style, if it works, it works. You'll obviously keep in close contact with a person who is a good fit for you, compatible, and is basically just suppose to be in your life life because it's kinda meant to be. And all other people are difficult to keep around because they really aren't suppose to be and aren't a good enough fit.

I know that SLIs can be hard to pin down but then again, that's why we like them. If they want a serious relationship they will put the time in, definitely. I have a female ISTp friend and she does that. And I can see guys doing that too.

I'm very picky w/ how I spend my time unless I'm crazy about someone at which point I'm free basically whenever and if they want to join me running my errands, or doing who knows what, I don't care.

So when it works, it works. And forget the rest.

[IcEPiCk]

straight up... but ya it seems to be a matter of finding when the enfp and istp are on the same wavelength and not occupied with too many other priorities. A lot of shit has to line up but that is what makes the duality so appreciated when it does work. It seems to be a very special feeling and thats why its so rare to achieve I guess? Its just frustrating because sometimes you feel so close and poof *** enfp is gone doing something else more exciting and new, or istp does something foolish I dunno... Whatever I get what you're sayin though

[meatburger]

straight up... but ya it seems to be a matter of finding when the enfp and istp are on the same wavelength and not occupied with too many other priorities. A lot of shit has to line up but that is what makes the duality so appreciated when it does work. It seems to be a very special feeling and thats why its so rare to achieve I guess? Its just frustrating because sometimes you feel so close and poof *** enfp is gone doing something else more exciting and new, or istp does something foolish I dunno... Whatever I get what you're sayin though

Sup Icey good to see ya back . I am an ENFp that can do this type of thing. I will get on so well with someone then dissapear for weeks at a time and they will be thinking wtf. :frown:. An ISTp friend i know has been kind of pissing me off lately. We live in the same apartment block and we get on really well when we hang out. Hes been going out a bit lately though and i dont get an invite. Yesterday he said that we should smoke his Shisha thing and i thought that was cool and he said he would give me a call that night. Then i walked out to get a drink later that night and him and like 6 people were all smoking it up. He is younger than me and he was chasing the girls which is why he didn't invite me. I know its not much but i cant help eventually getting annoyed at that type of thing. I will push away from him now i cant really help it because i percieve the Fi link has been frayed.

[Mattie]

Whenever I see this thread it drives me insane lol Something tells me only at my wit's end will I end up with an ISTp. Really, the stars have to be in the correct pattern for everything to be right. Which makes me wonder about duality really... Is it really worth the frustration you go through to get it? Do the descriptions of duality appropriately "foretell" this sort of 'hit and miss' aspect, with a lot of misses?

[tiny_dancer]

Yeah, I think all SLIs do that. They never invite me to anything. When I was dating my ex, I asked him if he wanted to go out to dinner Friday night. He said his roommate's friend was in town and he was going out with him. I assumed it was a guy's night out, so I didn't pursue it. The next day I go over to his house, and it's a fuckin' party. There are 10 people over there. His roommate's visitor had brought his wife as well, and the night before, he and 5 other couples all went out barhopping and had a fantastic time. All the women asked me "Where were you?! We had SO much fun!!" NOT INVITED, THAT'S WHERE.

My ex had actually called 4 other people, all of whom were friends with me, and invited them to come out, but hadn't called me despite knowing that I wasn't doing anything that evening. Gee. Nice to know I'm important to you. This is why, on one level, I hate my dual. They treat you like you don't even exist. Do you know how hard it is to walk into a party and realize that the person you rank higher than anyone else in the world didn't even think to invite you, despite the fact that you live only 5 blocks away?

Do the descriptions of duality appropriately "foretell" this sort of 'hit and miss' aspect, with a lot of misses?

I really do think IEE-SLI duality is the most difficult one. I swear to God, most of my friends are married dual couples, and all their stories go: "Well, we met one day and really liked each other, and we lived happily ever after."

Ugh. I shouldn't have reminded myself of this. Now I'm going to be in bad mood for the rest of the day.

[Banana Pancakes]

I really do think IEE-SLI duality is the most difficult one. I swear to God, most of my friends are married dual couples, and all their stories go: "Well, we met one day and really liked each other, and we lived happily ever after."

Ugh. I shouldn't have reminded myself of this. Now I'm going to be in bad mood for the rest of the day.

That sucks. If it makes you feel any better SEIs do the same with ILEs.