Differences between ENTp-ILE and ENTj-LIE

[FDG]

You could just be a very Te EJ.

You know you just have to figure out the types of your friends. If they're INFps, ENFjs, ISFps, ENTjs, ESFps then you're likely ESTp. If they're ISFjs, ISTps, ESTps, ESFps, INTps, ENFps then you're likely ENTj. So on for ESTj

That's tough, because my friends are from a wide variety of types. INTj and ENFp are the types of my two closest friends. Two ESFjs, an ENTj, an ESFp, an ENxj, two ESTps, an ENTp, an ENFp, an ISFp, an ESTj are a variety of my friends from different circles.

Also, how do you apply your method (i.e. "and so on for ESTj"), FDG? I don't understand the logic behind it.

Take the quadra progression alpha-beta-gamma-delta

take you are in the beta quadra, then your friends in the adiacent quadras are more likely to have the same rationality-irrationality preferences and be heteroverted in respect to you, ex if you're ESTp then you'll likely have INTp and ISFp friends; if you're ENTj, the latter is much less likely and it's be more likely to be friends with an INFj (obviously)

[olduser]

Those are a few key differences. Think of two scientists- One a loose, fun, even bohemian individual. The other a formal, restrained individual who knows what the hell he is talking about and doesn't explore things openly.

Isn't this too extreme. Feyman's been extensively typed as ENTj but I don't see him as strictly the latter

hmmm. No. Feyman is only one example. I think there are plenty of pleasurable ENTj, I don't mean to imply they are not pleasurable. But I did mean that they have set ideas, and if you were to engage them in discussion in our on their theoretical subject they will probably recall the facts and figures they have learned and why they think it is correct/useful. An ENTp will discuss what he has learned, the potential he sees in the science, and more often make wild assertions that doubt the system altogether.

[posablethumb]

But I did mean that they have set ideas, and if you were to engage them in discussion in our on their theoretical subject they will probably recall the facts and figures they have learned and why they think it is correct/useful.

This part is false though. I had an ENTj once explain all kinds of odd theories he had on the way people's brains work, and I don't even remember all of it, but it was more. . . mystical sounding than an ENTp sounds. I don't know -- if you've ever had them go very Ni on you, it can be extremely interesting.

IME, usually when they come up with those ideas, it's from an experience that they've observed (could be in their head or in external reality) that was totally alien to them, but still apart of a universal concept - what they've observed is an example of the concept, and they willl attempt to explain what they've observed but it would sound more.. I don't know, more like story telling I think.

[krieger]

Don't make the mistake of thinking ENTj's argue just by stating memorized facts. ENTj's are concrete Ni types, meaning that the origin of the things they say is intuition, not thought. It's very easy to chatch them at making a statement that they want to be true but isn't, even if mostly they 'intuit' right and end up being able to proove the things they say.

Memorized facts = concrete accepting judgment: ESTj

[FDG]

Those are a few key differences. Think of two scientists- One a loose, fun, even bohemian individual. The other a formal, restrained individual who knows what the hell he is talking about and doesn't explore things openly.

Isn't this too extreme. Feyman's been extensively typed as ENTj but I don't see him as strictly the latter

hmmm. No. Feyman is only one example. I think there are plenty of pleasurable ENTj, I don't mean to imply they are not pleasurable. But I did mean that they have set ideas, and if you were to engage them in discussion in our on their theoretical subject they will probably recall the facts and figures they have learned and why they think it is correct/useful. An ENTp will discuss what he has learned, the potential he sees in the science, and more often make wild assertions that doubt the system altogether.

Probably I'd say that the ENTj will be more hellbent on strictly following a logical progression whereas this would be only an afterthought for the ENTp. I don't think that a type with both thinking and intuition as strongest functions can only spur memorized facts, otherwise his main functions would be useless.

[Expat]

I agree with heath, mostly.

But I did mean that they have set ideas, and if you were to engage them in discussion in our on their theoretical subject they will probably recall the facts and figures they have learned and why they think it is correct/useful.

This part is false though. I had an ENTj once explain all kinds of odd theories he had on the way people's brains work, and I don't even remember all of it, but it was more. . . mystical sounding than an ENTp sounds. I don't know -- if you've ever had them go very Ni on you, it can be extremely interesting.

Yes, but an ENTj will tend to start from ideas based on facts (or at least on something they read), and use Ni to explore them further - at which stage they may not bother to actually quote where they got the original idea from in the first place, so everything will sound more "mystical" than it probably is.

I see this in myself when I discuss arcane subjects with others, like socionics or quantum theory. At one point, if I am exporing a point which is not really known but might be possible, I get enthusiastic about it in a Ni way and I may sound like an ENTp, but actually I'm going just a bit further than information I got elsewhere. Of course, if I don't say it, others may think that it's all my idea.

[Ezra]

Okay, obviously you are an S type Ezra. Just based on the direct questions and such it is pretty clear.

I'm only doing that because there are people on the forum who've previously told me to be clearer, or my arguments sound illogical or contradictory to them. But fair enough. I hate ambiguity, symbolism is useless unless it is actually true of the director's, artist's or band's intentions, and vagueness pisses me off (even though, as I've said before, I've done it a lot when I'm not thinking clearly). But I can't get this fucking vibe of the ESTp off my mind. How many different varieties of ESTp can there be? Nonetheless, I argue like a bitch until I've got my point across, and refuse to back down if I believe I'm right. I love to prove my point. I like people to genuinely know that I've beaten them not just "okay okay Ez you win" - that infuriates me when people don't cooperate and are disrespectful. I HATE disrespect to people, especially when it's towards me. This awareness of power that (I think s is it? have) and the way people get worn down, yeah, I have that. I use it too. But I'm shit with instant change. I also don't like parties unless I know pretty much no one. I went right off them last night when all the people who were there were complete fucking losers in every sense except the fact that they thought they were brilliant. Basically, I like to dream up a plan, then implement it. It's not so much spend four hours for a day and then go for it the next day, it's "right, I want to do this, so now I have a rough plan in my mind, I'll go for it". Too much planning kills me, which is why I'm not ESTj (also, that thing about the manual on the16types.info, where they read it and only then do they use their product. I'm not like that. I jump straight into shit). I've realised that I'm actually quite a sensual person, but I often dull my senses deliberately so I can pursue something that I enjoy, like getting a rush from jumping over fences into my back garden (a different route home) - and I don't care if I do my arm in or something. that's more related to my being an 8 though I think. I love action, because it stops the anxiety that you get if you prolong the time before doing something, like jumping off a rock or chatting someone up or something. I tend to be pretty self-preservationist in that I need my basics, and once I've got those I'm happy. I'm quite a doing person. I'm very productive when I need to be, and can work endlessly, and I love it. I like to keep my spaces orderly, although I can function when they're in shit. When I say I'm gonna do something, I do it. I have to. I set myself tasks to do and do them. No question. End of. I like a challenge.

FDG is ESTp now!?

He always was that.

[itdoesntmatter]

I am an ENTP in MBTI and I (for the longest time) thought I was an ENTp in socionics but recently I have been playing with the thought that I might be an ENTj. I have read some wikisocion descriptions of each and I could see myself being either but I want to know, what is the main way to distinguish between an ENTp from an ENTj in everyday life? though it may be an obvious question I dont know that i really know any ENTjs.

[mu4]

I would say LIEs are better at noticing people's stupidity and incompetence and not tolerating it while ILEs are more forgiving and are more inclined to be bothered by moralization and will place low emphasis on doing things in a socially proper way as LIEs tend towards being more formal..I guess.

LIE view reliability, initiative, teamwork and professionalism as signs of competence.

ILE value talent, unique qualities, creativity and passion as qualities to be unlocked.

ILE aren't tolerant of incompetence and can be somewhat like Gregory House MD(ILE-Ti). (He is someone who values talent, unique qualities and tries to unlock the potential within his assistants. He requires his employees to have their own brain but is highly combative and even a bit abusive.)

ILE style of management is more about putting the right person in the right place and letting them flourish and be creative while LIE management style is more about working harder and smarter and more efficiently.

LIE are work and career oriented in order to acquire resources for their interests, while ILE are interest oriented and seek to materialize their interests into something that can be monetized.

[Aiss]

This thread belongs in the16steoretypes.info forum.

[CILi]

This thread belongs in the16steoretypes.info forum.

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[717495]

Did you check the spelling?

[Timeless]

Did you check the spelling?

[krieger]

This thread belongs in the16steoretypes.info forum.

Look around you. We are on the16stereotypes.info.

[1981slater]

Quoting cartoons/action movies phrases --> ILE
Being strongly disliked by some people --> ILE
Being a smart ass --> ILE

[Timeless]

Being a smart ass --> ILE

Making arrows point to the right ---> ILE

[Aleksei]

Making arrows point to the right ---> ILE

OMGZ ILES ARE IN ON THE VAST RIGHT-ARROW WING CONSPIRACY

AND SHIT

[Timeless]

OMGZ ILES ARE IN ON THE VAST RIGHT-ARROW WING CONSPIRACY

AND SHIT

[1981slater]

Making arrows point to the right ---> ILE

Oh yes! It represents being rude (fi polr) and skipping introductions

[FDG]

LIE view reliability, initiative, teamwork and professionalism as signs of competence.

ILE value talent, unique qualities, creativity and passion as qualities to be unlocked.

Meh, no way. Basically you're saying: LIEs are boring robots ILEs are cool people with great ideas

reliability, initiative, professionalism = BORING

[Slacker]

Somehow this turned into the funniest current thread. Although I'm afraid you'll scare off the new guy!

Don't be scared, new poster! Maybe instead of asking about differences between types, tell about yourself.

As for your lists, LIEs might be more interested in professionalism, though it could just be that ILEs would define that a bit differently, and otherwise they're probably both interested in both. I mean, everyone likes creativity, passion, initiative, etc.

[Aleksei]

Meh, no way. Basically you're saying: LIEs are boring robots ILEs are cool people with great ideas

reliability, initiative, professionalism = BORING

Why are you LIE exactly? You vibe SLE to me and I'm seriously having a very hard time picturing an LIE 7.

[mu4]

Meh, no way. Basically you're saying: LIEs are boring robots ILEs are cool people with great ideas

reliability, initiative, professionalism = BORING

Initiative isn't really all that boring, but the other two are. That's just two out of three, so it's not all boring all the time.

ILE aren't really cool people with great ideas, we're more like really deranged sadists with ideas we shove down other's throats because we wanna look cool. We're tolerated because we're right some of the time(As in almost all of the time).

[squark]

Don't be scared, new poster!

[FDG]

Why are you LIE exactly? You vibe SLE to me and I'm seriously having a very hard time picturing an LIE 7.

Nah, been there done that, doesn't work.

[Aleksei]

Nah, been there done that, doesn't work.

Why not?

[FDG]

type relationships, VI, my tought processes, identicals, etc...everything.

[krieger]

Do not speak to the untouchables. Oh and don't listen to them, that would be worse.

[Aleksei]

type relationships, VI, my tought processes, identicals, etc...everything.

Fair enough. I'll just continue to think of you as a Decisive Logical Extrovert in general till I have more info to decide one way or the other. Capisci?

[1981slater]

Fair enough. I'll just continue to think of you as a Decisive Logical Extrovert in general till I have more info to decide one way or the other. Capisci?

Am I an ILE?

[FDG]

Fair enough. I'll just continue to think of you as a Decisive Logical Extrovert in general till I have more info to decide one way or the other. Capisci?

δεν καταλαβαινω

[Aleksei]

Am I an ILE?

I don't know you, so idk. So far it doesn't seem glaringly wrong.

[07490]

Why are you LIE exactly? You vibe SLE to me and I'm seriously having a very hard time picturing an LIE 7.

What? almost half of the LIE population is LIE 7 man, really.

[Aleksei]

What? almost half of the LIE population is LIE 7 man, really.

wtf? You mean EIE?

[07490]

wtf? You mean EIE?

To be honest, I think you should really look into someone's type, get to know them, their core value, and not just read a description that can superficially relate with one and another in between socionics and enneagram. Reading enneagram/socionics sites 100 times won't be able to tell you if LIE can be 7 or not, but observing people in real life can, I mean.


I am not trying to bash you here man, but you are reading into these things the wrong way.

[Aleksei]

To be honest, I think you should really look into someone's type, get to know them, their core value, and not just read a description that can superficially relate with one and another in between socionics and enneagram. Reading enneagram/socionics sites 100 times won't be able to tell you if LIE can be 7 or not, but observing people in real life can, I mean.

I have not met an LIE 7 in my life other than FDG (assuming he is LIE).

You're not being too brash, don't worry. I can get a lot worse.

[07490]

I have not met an LIE 7 in my life other than FDG (assuming he is LIE).

You're not being too brash, don't worry. I can get a lot worse.

I have met one since the first day I was born.

I see why you think LIE is unlikely for 7. LIE stereotypically means entrepreneurship and 7 is an enthusiastic person and all that crap etc... unfortunately reality doesn't play out like. since it's only a stereotype other kind of LIE overshadows the others.

[Aleksei]

Ok, so if you've only met one LIE 7, and LIE is not described in a manner conducive to Enneagram 7, then why are you asserting 7 is a likely type for LIE?

[07490]

Ok, so if you've only met one LIE 7, and LIE is not described in a manner conducive to Enneagram 7, then why are you asserting 7 is a likely type for LIE?

Look. Believe it if you want. I believe at this stage I have much more experiences than you, and I never like to use this excuse on anyone and claim that I am right. But frankly this is the case here between me and you, and I am not going through this whole debate if LIE 7 exists or not, you believe what you want, I already know, I have no desires to lecture you.

[itdoesntmatter]

well drawing from the sparse information in this thread, and my own conclusion, Im still an ILE.