Huh? never heard of this. Do you mean for example an INTP can change into an ISFP for a year, and then change back again?Originally Posted by FDG
Huh? never heard of this. Do you mean for example an INTP can change into an ISFP for a year, and then change back again?Originally Posted by FDG
I think so, but not everybody agrees on this (it would happen like this: an INTp-Te strenghtens his Si to the point it takes over the Ni; then from here he strengthen the Fe to the point it takes over the Te, and so on)Originally Posted by Jarno
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
impossible.
How come you are constantly making up your own theory's instead of just noticing in real life what socionics predict.
You are starting to become a socionics rebel.
I notice in real life what socionics predicts, and modify it according to what reality says, which is not always coincident with the theory, of course.Originally Posted by Jarno
You OTOH seem to be close minded :S if a relationship doesn't go as socionics predicts, the theory is wrong, not reality.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That's not necessarily his own theory; that's one of the points of Smilexian socionics:Originally Posted by Jarno
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...xian_socionics
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I still fail to see how it can be considered an hypothesis when it so so clearly observable and just an extension of the normal model A.Originally Posted by Expat
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
cool have to read me some smilex.
a disgusting picture of an ENTj and an INFj. on some level I covet their life but then i started thinking about semi duals in general. I've yet to have romantically mingled.. er yes, mingled with a dual i was attracted to, but have had some piercing moments with my semi. Anyone want to talk about semi-duals' pros and cons compared with duals?
(actually im not sure of their types, but this is my best guess)
Yup, I'm with dolphin on that one. adorable photo!!
IEI-Fe 4w3
Maybe she needs to expand her life away from her boyfriend.
sounds like the marriage is also at a critical point. 7 years and 12 years according to the research are stress points.
dealing with substance abuse on a daily basis is a total drag, too. like, how is this affecting his college studies? is she working? i could see her start to get pissed off that he's all party hardy and she's working her ass off. again, a common theme with substance abuse.
semi duality could be a way to label the communication problem they are having as well as the difference in values.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Oh hai istpunk. I hate you too <3
From someone who has an INTp dad- at least we have empathy for others! Does it bother you at all that you just turned the whole conversation around to complain about things in your own life in a derogatory way to others when someone was showing geniune care for a close friend and reaching ou for help? Of course not. You didn't even think about it.
Why don't you go and complain about something IRL.
Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .
Have you had a relationship with one? What is it like being close to your semi-dual?
I've never had a relationship of the Significant Other variety with and ISTp, but two of my closest friends are ISTp. I really enjoy my relationship with each one, it's always very comfortable and relaxed.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
nope. I seem to get along well with SEEs over short periods (as acquaintances) but then we always end up going in different directions (not deliberately but in a "Hi/what's new?/nice seeing you/Bye" sort of way)
INFp-Ni
same as misutii. I do like SEEs though, I just haven't really had a chance to develop a close relationship with one. It always feels like they already have enough friends so I don't pursue. And if they don't pursue, it generally doesn't happen. The one male SEE I know gets kind of nervous around me. He's still really charming but I can tell he feels a little bit self-conscious. I think there's some attraction there which would preclude a closer friendship since we're both married.
IEI-Fe 4w3
all my semi duals smell like fresh blueberries.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
ENFp yeah, he's cool, but he doesn't repsond to Fe at all. It is saddening.
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
My longest friendship may by semidual
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
i honestly do not know many istp's. seems like we socialize with different groups. i like them when i run across them but i've never been in a sig other relationship with one. somebody said different directions....gotta agree with this.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I have a very close SEI friend. We get along great most of the time, but we get upset with each other from time to time.
It happens mostly when I say something in a Te way and she misinterprets it with her Fe. Like, for example, she asked me recently to go with her to buy some things and I said "I can't tomorrow" and she suddenly got all emotional and said "I'll go alone, you're always putting excuses". Thing is, I was just thinking loud to find some free time and she thought I was telling her pretexts to not go.
Some advice for SEIs: try to not "interpret" what IEEs say. It's usually straight forward with no hidden intentions to discover.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
INFj is the type most common among my long-term male friends.
I've never had a romatic relationship with an INFj, although there was one that might be classified as "friendship that might have become romantic under other circumstances".
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I really enjoy the company of SEIs most of the time. If subtypes exist, then I would say safely that I prefer the Si-SEI to the Fe-SEI - I find them 'dryer' and I like that. The Fe-SEIs I interact with as though we're siblings - it's pretty buoyant, fun and lighthearted, with a little bit of sniping to keep things from being too pleasant (and thus dull), but ultimately they seem to want more from me then I'm willing to give. They get clingy faster and want me to cling back. I do at first (usually on a euphoric trip due to the novelty of the relation), but then I pull back because I get bored and it's just all a little overwhelming and sort of...invasive. I start to find their emotivity annoying. I want them to stop using emoticons in their written communication. I want them to stop wanting to see me all the time and wanting to talk to me all the time. I want them stop trying to cheer me up, especially when I'm not actually upset (I have the right to be pissed off, ranty or moody on occasion - stop making me feel like I should be sunshiney and rosy all the time!) I feel myself becoming an incredibly shitty human being and so I remove myself from the relationship to give us 'space'.
If subtypes don't exist, then this is just a coincidence that the SEIs I have encountered can largely be divided into two groups, one 'dry' and one 'wet'. Lovely people.
()
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Well alright...
*cautiously reinstates Luis*
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
A close friend of mine is SLE. Ironically she is the only friend with whom I would regularly get into conflicts if we spend any significant time together. We're very alike, which is what brings us together, but then we can just as easily get on each other's nerves.
ILI
¿Qué es la vida? Un frenesí.
¿Qué es la vida? Una ilusión;
una sombra, una ficción
y el mayor bien es pequeño.
¡Que toda la vida es sueño
y los sueños, sueños son!
1. Initial Stages of Semi-Duality
Much easier to start than dual relationships since both parties use their leading function to fulfill the dual-seeking function of the other, whilst the mutual possession of each other's creative function as the other's demonstrative function means there's a feeling of similarity, which is a great way to initially bond with people. You feel like this person really appreciates you and you have so much fun together. There is no stress involved in this relation.
2. The Awkward Stage
However, overtime, their over-use of your demonstrative function and lack of your mobilising function (which is pretty important to you in times of stress) begins to irritate. Your relation stagnates and stress is applied because you want them to produce their PoLR for you and vice-versa. Your mutual requirements are unmet. What they do produce via their creative function is not valued by you. You feel that you can better solve your problems alone, than in their presence, because they aren't helping but distracting. You retreat.
3. Results of the Relation
Once the stress has passed, the friendship can resume, though a relationship may not. In my experience, guys generally have their ego bruised pretty badly when you send them subconscious (or even overt in some cases) messages that they're useless to help you. Maybe if I were able to break down in front of people, at least we could bond over the stress, which might bring us closer emotionally? That might explain some semi-dual couples. Unfortunately, I have problems with vulnerability and thus shut down entirely and withdraw, which usually ends all non-platonic relations dead.
Semi-dual is great for friendship, since we don't expect the same things from a friend as we do a partner. For instance, we don't expect that the same degree of support on one side and reliance/dependence on the other, as we would in a committed relationship.
()
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
I think my younger sister is ENTp, and the description of intertype relations fits. She's 12 years younger than me, so obviously no sibling rivalry, but also connection only on certain levels. She just turned 21 a couple of weeks ago, so she's still exhibiting a lot of immature traits (not just her age but also being the admittedly-coddled youngest of 4).
She came to me with a problem recently, but just to talk about it. She liked that I gave advice, but only when I confirmed ideas she'd already come up with herself - I said something she didn't think of, and she acted shocked, not necessarily unfavorable but more like not ready to accept. She mainly wanted me to be her sounding board, and went over her intentions several times until I put my foot down (as pleasantly as I could) and concluded the conversation.
Last year we took a trip together, and she wanted me to handle all the mundane details - booking hostels, finding interesting things to do, arranging transportation. I was doing these things for myself anyway, so I didn't grump too much about it, but since our interests and levels of enthusiasm differ, I did resent doing all the work myself. Every time I went to her to show her my preliminary work and made the suggestion that she make her own efforts, she just agreed with what I came up with, even when I could tell underneath it all she'd like to do things differently.
Finally, we took the trip, and every day I'd present her with choices that she pretended to not have a preference in - a few times when things didn't turn out favorably, she criticized me for it, and I again had to put my foot down. Overall, we enjoyed each other's company and coordinated what needed to be done copacetically, but I wouldn't say spending so much time together gave us any greater bond. It's as if we're each aware that the other has a very different temperament, and we can tolerate it easily enough without being drained by it, but we don't often seek it out.
But again, a lot of our relationship probably has to do with me being her big sister.
SLIOriginally Posted by Charles Bukowski
I dated a couple of ISFps when I was younger, and I've had plenty of friends who are ISFps. I really really like ISFps, though I think the quote above where it said something about guys getting frustrated when they realize they aren't useful to you being accurate. I need help with Te and I wouldn't really register or think about it but I think I'd naturally look elsewhere and in a romantic relationship that can irritate guys. But ISFps are so warm and sweet and friendly I just love to be around them.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
yeah thats true. i have the same problem reversed with estp, where i can't relate to their fe seeking and want them to back off with it the whole time. especially in real life; and especially with estp-se. when they go into full fe mode, i end up just sitting there and saying "uhuh.....yep.. err nah"... for a while. But there is good sexual chemistry between semiduals i think. so maybe you should go have sex with a bunch of ilis and do the world a favor. they need it. even though... i thought you were isfp, and not estp. I have to admit i found it strange i got along with an isfp, though ..... anyway, yeah. ILIs are natural killers. as you learn socionics you can make those weaknesses go away though.. eventually they should all be gone. if you are learning on here, anyway ...
not just dicking around and repeating yourself, or being the mind police
Semi-duals can be quite nice. At the very least the SD will not hit your PoLR, just expect it from you. At the very best, each person can learn to give a bit of the 4th function and be a better, more developed person for it.
LII
that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.
Does this sound normal?
1. Meet, have a good conversation, playful... good fun
2. Maybe progress this further (ie. male and female)
3. Get pissed off over lack of contact
4. Semi-ignore semi-dual
5. Feel bad about this
6. See semi-dual and act all friendly again (maybe after they approach me / maybe me approach them)
7. Progress
8. Get pissed off as not meeting expectations... lacking communication, no idea what wants
9. Maybe piss them off
10. Feel guilty, and then contact them
and over again...!
Solution?
ENTp... love it
3w2
If you know that you are semi duals, then this is what to expect, the moth and the flame.
(Yet, if you don't know for sure what kind of relationship you are in, this thing also happens with conflictors, just a bit more agressive.)
Solution: there is no solution, socionics interaction pattern cannot be changed drastically.
so the only solution there is, find your dual. and you don't have these problems anymore.