Differences between ILE-ENTp and SLE-ESTp

[XoX]

Ok, there have been some argument about what are the commonalities and differences between these types. Fabie claims to be on the S-side. I think I could be on the N-side etc. However these types shouldn't be THAT similar. There should be something to clearly distinguish them from each other. What would that be? Are Reinin dichotomies the way to go? How does subtype affect Reinin dichotomies manifestation in these types?

[FDG]

ENTps are generally slimmer, a bit more ectomorphic we could say. They have a gentler look in their faces, I think it's actually a better look. They walk more rigidly usually. They have a more graceful voice and way of speaking whereas the ESTps tend to be blunter as a rule. ESTps are usually better coordinated, something which is generally visible from the walk, too.

My experience with an ENTp, in a finance class: he had a very fast mind in seeing solutions that weren't obvious. For example when we came to a dead end in an equation he would look at it for some time and figure out how to do it. He was slower at implementing and applying things though, although I think mostly due to uwillingness. He also preferred to talk in "monologues" rather than "dialogues" in comparison to me. He had a very strong Ti death stare so there wasn't much difference in that realm. I was also quicker at walking. I also squirmed a lot more when sitting, and talked a bit faster. He was calmer. I liked this guy very much, smart calm and fun.

Another experience with an ENTp was pretty bad. He was in a rugby team so he wanted to fake Se. He was always going around talking how he wanted to fuck girls and then leave them, he criticized all the time the way i was dressing while he himself did not care about his appearnce...i almost throwed him a venice waterway once out of anger. Liked to make me angry.

Anyway the bottom line is...the types are incredibly easy to tell apart when you see them but not that easy to tell apart by words.

[Khamelion]

ENTps are generally slimmer, a bit more ectomorphic we could say. They have a gentler look in their faces, I think it's actually a better look. They walk more rigidly usually. They have a more graceful voice and way of speaking whereas the ESTps tend to be blunter as a rule. ESTps are usually better coordinated, something which is generally visible from the walk, too.

You've discribed the difference between what I picture an ESTp to be like, and how my boyfriend actually is.

[XoX]

ENTps are generally slimmer, a bit more ectomorphic we could say. They have a gentler look in their faces, I think it's actually a better look. They walk more rigidly usually. They have a more graceful voice and way of speaking whereas the ESTps tend to be blunter as a rule. ESTps are usually better coordinated, something which is generally visible from the walk, too.

You've discribed the difference between what I picture an ESTp to be like, and how my boyfriend actually is.

So what you are saying is that he doesn't spank you hard enough?

Anyways...I like what we have so far but we need more Reinin dichotomies should be quite different. e.g. Taciturn vs Narrator. What else are the differences in Reinin scales and do the subtypes bring those types closer to each other in Reinin scale or is narrator always a narrator etc?

[Jimbean]

This is a good question because sometimes there is not a lot of difference between the two. Basically I would agree with what FDG mentioned, plus I would say that each type might have a strong role function (or might me weak, in which case it would not be difficult to tell them apart), but each of them may be more reckless about it than if it was their strength. It is not anything that I could explicitly explain, but rather it is something that you would have to catch on to after meeting enough EXTp’s.

[FDG]

ENTps are generally slimmer, a bit more ectomorphic we could say. They have a gentler look in their faces, I think it's actually a better look. They walk more rigidly usually. They have a more graceful voice and way of speaking whereas the ESTps tend to be blunter as a rule. ESTps are usually better coordinated, something which is generally visible from the walk, too.

You've discribed the difference between what I picture an ESTp to be like, and how my boyfriend actually is.

So what you are saying is that he doesn't spank you hard enough?

Anyways...I like what we have so far but we need more Reinin dichotomies should be quite different. e.g. Taciturn vs Narrator. What else are the differences in Reinin scales and do the subtypes bring those types closer to each other in Reinin scale or is narrator always a narrator etc?

The Renin differencies I've found...

tactics vs strategic: they seem to change for example university courses for no motivation at all whereas i prefer to keep a bit more in track.

taciturn vs narrator: this is harder to figure out honestly. Because it doesn't mean what the name says. ENTps I know prefer monologues to dialogues in comparison to me. I tend to interrupt them. They also speak a bit more even when in a bad mood.

Ne vs Se role: ENTps i know are better at acting completely unprepared for an exam. This doesn't mean they get better result but they just GO there without having studied thinking they can do something. Sometimes this gives results, sometimes not.

[Exodus]

Ne vs Se role: ENTps i know are better at acting completely unprepared for an exam. This doesn't mean they get better result but they just GO there without having studied thinking they can do something. Sometimes this gives results, sometimes not.

lol, this sounds like me.

[XoX]

Ne vs Se role: ENTps i know are better at acting completely unprepared for an exam. This doesn't mean they get better result but they just GO there without having studied thinking they can do something. Sometimes this gives results, sometimes not.

lol, this sounds like me.

Heh. I don't generally do this. I have tried it but it kinda failed. And I dislike getting bad grades so I don't do that. I dislike performing below potential. I have jumped from course to course though. I can suddenly get bored in a course and feel like there isa a better one out there. I'm bad at follow-through on subjects that start to bore me

Anyways what's the difference between ENTp(Ne) and ENTp(Ti)? FDG once had a thread about this which claimed that ENTp(Ne) is a useless type or something. I have been thinking and I guess it makes more sense that I'm ENTp(Ne) because I'm more about generating ideas and I often lack the follow-through on my projects. Also ENTp(Ne) is stronger in NF functions and ENTp(Ti) is stronger in ST functions. My NF self-perceptions would point more to ENTp(Ne). This would also explain why I am perceived as ENFpish/Deltaish (almost an ENFp) or as INFp/ENFj (Fe is there to some extent, Ni is apparently too)

[FDG]

I think you refer to the SLE type descriptions. It was mostly like ENTps-Ne are harmless which does not mean useless - just means you don't have to watch your back while you interact with them.

[Expat]

taciturn vs narrator: this is harder to figure out honestly. Because it doesn't mean what the name says. ENTps I know prefer monologues to dialogues in comparison to me. I tend to interrupt them. They also speak a bit more even when in a bad mood.

The best way to spot this is to look at combination with positivist-negativist:

ENTp: taciturn-positivist-process
ESTp: narrator-negativist-result

So what it means is that EPs should be inclined to adopting a "critic" stance (different from INTps', though) in terms of your objectives, goals, or opinions - "what you want to do is wrong because you don't know this and that"; "you will get nowhere if you continue as you are now"; OR adopt a "how do I do this right now?" stance when trying to accomplish something specific.

Both the ENTp and the ESTp can shift back and forth between these stances; although each point should be most clearly visible in the corresponding type.

[Suomea]

ENTps are generally slimmer, a bit more ectomorphic we could say. They have a gentler look in their faces, I think it's actually a better look. They walk more rigidly usually. They have a more graceful voice and way of speaking whereas the ESTps tend to be blunter as a rule. ESTps are usually better coordinated, something which is generally visible from the walk, too.

My experience with an ENTp, in a finance class: he had a very fast mind in seeing solutions that weren't obvious. For example when we came to a dead end in an equation he would look at it for some time and figure out how to do it. He was slower at implementing and applying things though, although I think mostly due to uwillingness. He also preferred to talk in "monologues" rather than "dialogues" in comparison to me. He had a very strong Ti death stare so there wasn't much difference in that realm. I was also quicker at walking. I also squirmed a lot more when sitting, and talked a bit faster. He was calmer. I liked this guy very much, smart calm and fun.

Another experience with an ENTp was pretty bad. He was in a rugby team so he wanted to fake Se. He was always going around talking how he wanted to fuck girls and then leave them, he criticized all the time the way i was dressing while he himself did not care about his appearnce...i almost throwed him a venice waterway once out of anger. Liked to make me angry.

Anyway the bottom line is...the types are incredibly easy to tell apart when you see them but not that easy to tell apart by words.

Very cool mentioning the Ti death stare. As an ENTp- Ti I notice the Ti death stare with ESTp- Tis too. One of my best friends is ESTp- Ti and we get along really well. We'll blow up at each other once in a while but for the most part we're cool with one another. And when we do blow up we're normally alright the next day or whenever we've had time to release whatever was bothering us. I think the Ti subtypes are just more patiently observant with a lot more serious bite. Ne's and Se's are too busy using their extraverted function to understand things in as much depth. I don't know whether the other ENTp you mentioned was an Ne subtype or not (I'd maybe guess so), but in general I get along better with ESTp- Ti than ESTp- Se (this is moreso true for males than females). ESTp- Ses I'll sometimes explode on if they are putting too much Se pressure on me or someone I care about, or if they are really over the line I'll make everyone and their mother hate them, and get them fired or kicked out of school. It's funny because they don't realize that all they had to do was release some of the unnecessary over the top Se pressure..... maybe they just don't care.

[Ms. Kensington]

People should post pics. I am not sure that everyone's talking about the same thing with the death stare.

[implied]

People should post pics. I am not sure that everyone's talking about the same thing with the death stare.

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=9371

i will find some more pics if i can. i tend to sort of think it is something similar to what vladimir mayakovsky does in photos (what a fox.) very penetrating sort of i'll eat your soul stare.

[Ms. Kensington]

wow

i have some pics of me doing the same thing but it's too embarrasing.

PS if you have one of these you don't have my permission to post it

[Suomea]

Yep.....that's what I was talking about....

[Logos]

wow

i have some pics of me doing the same thing but it's too embarrasing.

PS if you have one of these you don't have my permission to post it

No wonder why many villians and sociopaths get typed with having Ti.

[implied]

Another experience with an ENTp was pretty bad. He was in a rugby team so he wanted to fake Se. He was always going around talking how he wanted to fuck girls and then leave them, he criticized all the time the way i was dressing while he himself did not care about his appearnce...i almost throwed him a venice waterway once out of anger. Liked to make me angry.

i really cannot stand these ENTps and they grate me worse than any other type.

[Steve]

A main difference is that ENTp-Tis will give off more Si, like noticeably so. Si is actually visible with ENTip-Tis and not as visible with ENTp-Nes. ESTp-Tis will give off more Ni, so a main difference between ESTp-Ti and ENTp-Ti is that while they are both Ti subs, you will see a lot of Si with ENTp-Tis and Ni with ESTp-Tis. So there is also that noticeable difference in addition to the differences with Ne and Se.

@introspectivedolphin: your brother instantly hit me as ENTp-Ti, and primarily from the Si I sense from him, just like me. Its the added Si that makes ENTps gentler and not as intense.

Here are some examples:

ENTp-Ti:








Here are some ESTp-Ti:

[Gilly]

Nixon? No fucking way, man. The only one I'd even possibly agree with would be the first one.

[Exodus]

A main difference is that ENTp-Tis will give off more Si, like noticeably so. Si is actually visible with ENTip-Tis and not as visible with ENTp-Nes.

IME it's the opposite. ENTp-Tis value Si less than ENTp-Nes, so they tend to avoid using it more.