IEI-LSE Conflict Relations (INFp and ESTj)

[meatburger]

Ive seen a LSE guy and IEI girl interract quite a few times. Im not 100% sure of the girls type but pretty sure. From my experience there didn't seem to be a great deal of conflicting, it seemed quite toned down. Same with SEI and LIE. Ive asked them if they could see the conflictor relation, LSE had no idea what i was talking about and IEI i think said she could a little. LIE said he could definately see it but it doesn't stop him going to the movies with him?? I think perhaps theres an element with your conflictor where you know not to argue because it is going to turn ugly, almost a slight fear. Once that barrier passes it sucks.

Nothing like my conflictor relations with LSI's, but thats been fostering over years

[Kristiina]

what I see from one IEI and LSE, the IEI doesn't understand why the LSE is always giving new tasks to her. She has everything planned and knows what she has to do and then the LSE multiplies the workload and takes it for granted that she does everything asked of her. After all, she agreed to help, even though she agreed when it was still a small task. Then the IEI says, "he's so insensitive and doesn't understand how this is such a difficult and time-consuming project. I already agreed to help so I can't say I won't help him. I wish he was more considerate with what he asks of me."

[implied]

what I see from one IEI and LSE, the IEI doesn't understand why the LSE is always giving new tasks to her. She has everything planned and knows what she has to do and then the LSE multiplies the workload and takes it for granted that she does everything asked of her. After all, she agreed to help, even though she agreed when it was still a small task. Then the IEI says, "he's so insensitive and doesn't understand how this is such a difficult and time-consuming project. I already agreed to help so I can't say I won't help him. I wish he was more considerate with what he asks of me."

now that sounds more like the conflict between myself and my mother. and you know she's not LSE.

[UDP]

3--when the LSE tried to push the IEI to focus on every little detail and do it in the prescribed manner every time, this will frustrate the IEI and maybe even make them feel like the LSE is getting on their back about something so trivial that takes too much effort to notice in the first place--as long as it gets done, isn't that all that matters?

Of course that's not all that matters.

The LSE may be great at figuring how to make things work properly in the immediate task, and may be absolutely wonderful with it. But when it comes to deciphering people's motives enough to find the right person to trust and buddy-buddy up with (Fe--Fi?), the LSE, IME, is often duped. They tend to try to take care of other's needs (Si), giving away money, food, gifts, all the time, without having an actual ability to percieve if that person intends to give her something return (Fe--Fi?).

That's true, and that's why I actually don't trust people much. I'm not sure how that explains IEI and LSE conflict however. Just because it is so foreign to you, I suppose.

The LSE may work relentlessly at a task, and when finally at the end of the world when all their energy is completely spent, they often leave themselves in a precarious position. A great task is finished to perfection, but the long-term gains are hard to find (Ni?). Yet in both these areas--the ability to know people's motives (Fe) and how things will develop over time (Ni)--even through repeated system of behavior and failures, the LSE will claim that they know exactly what these things are--precisely--probably better than you do.

That is definitely the manifestation of trying to avoid weak functions and being an unhealthy LSE. I've seen this, and in my own ways, I've been there myself, although more so with people's motives, rather than focusing too much on perfecting one task.

Of course, this is IME, which may more extreme than your experiences. You know, somebody should describe a good experience with an ESTj. I would like to see that.

...yet it would be against the purpose of this thread. A lot of people have said how swell things are, but that's not what I really wanted to find out. Heh but if you need to 'boost the mood' here, go ahead.

[UDP]

It seems that conflictors are problematic because they represent someone who is focused on entirely foreign things to you, and the fact that they live their lives based on those values proves that those values (functions, really) actually exist in reality. To me this is kind of more apparent with ENFjs, because they are more vibrant and active and are more pioneering in their work - so they spread the influence of functions I least like - Fe and Ni, particularly together.

An LSE's focus on Te and Si must be problematic for an IEI because those are the things which, in its standard programing of reality, it tries to avoid or significantly undervalues. (As types get healthier, I believe, they are less radically averse to their weaker functions having reality - they get a bit more "enlightened" as a whole, in terms of their understanding and interpretation of reality). But I know as myself, when I'm cheating, I just don't want to care about Ni and Fe. I basically say, screw this - I'm not dealing with this. I can still get things done anyway

Why the hell are people wasting their time and talking, chatting, goofing around? What is this bullshit you're talking about, it's irrelevant, lets just get this done now so we can move on to the next thing. And most of the time it feels like I'm one of the few people really concerned with actually pushing things forward, so that makes my position even more at odds with some people.

The point being, when I am "angry", or "discontent", or psychologically disbalanced, what goes out the window are the weak functions, and I am inclined to try to just avoid them. Every type as far as I've seen does this. Or they just get hyperfocused on their ego block, thinking therein lies all the answers.

I think, as I said at the beginning, conflictor relationship is offensive or simply totally incompatible because that hyperfocus on the ego block and/or outright neglect of the super id is the hallmark of turmoil in conflicting relationships. As I said, it is more apparent with ENFjs for me, however, because they seem much more bent on spreading the functions I don't like, whereas with INFps, they sort of keep to themselves, and I basically learn enough to just avoid them, or deal with them only on certain matters.

Obviously you can get along with your conflictor fine, but I think it somewhat requires that you are of a healthy mental state, and secure in yourself and your understanding of reality. I know a few INFps and I am decent friends with them. When it gets into technical discussion, I find them constantly asking me to explain things, and I wonder why they do that. "I'm confused". : / I wonder if they are reading into my words too much, and it is like I have to explain everything out over again, to which they don't really enjoy. But that is only with one INFp in particular, at this time.


Again, this isn't to say we cannot coexist, I made this thread to try to understand more about reality and my interpretation of it, and why there are some tensions with some people. It seems to go back, ultimately, to what was said about the other person simply devaluing your ego block, which is interpreted as devaluing the crux of your existence.

Learning from your conflictors though could be kind of interesting. It seems that duals help you facilitate this process though, by connecting superego functions to the valued, superid functions. I wonder -- thinking of this just now -- if that is a good way to interpret one's generally unvalued superego functions.

[Kristiina]

The only person I know who I think is LSE is my uncle. But I don't notice many conflicts between us. He tends to schedule everything to precisely specific times like on family trips and that creates stress and tension for me. Also he'll have it planned out what exactly we'll do and even what restaurants we'll eat at (all spontaneity is completely snuffed out)... if things don't go according to plan he becomes tense... And he can go on about things I find boring for quite a while... which creates tension for me because I don't know how long I'm going to have to continue to "endure" it. But I don't consider him to be insensitive at all.

However, he has had issues at his job where others perceived him as "insensitive" (these were mostly people that he supervised). This is interesting to me because I know he is not at all insensitive. But probably in a work environment he would be very focused on efficiency and ignore Fe. I could imagine him behaving very formal and emotionless and caring the most about accomplishing tasks within given time frames in a work environment... He had to attend workshops about how to interact with people better so that they wouldn't perceive him as insensitive. What's interesting is I think my aunt (his wife) is EII. And they work very well together. The only way I could really see him and I conflicting is if we were trying to accomplish a task together... but this is very unlikely to happen ever given our relationship. Also he's more open with his feelings around family than he probably would be in a job setting.

That could be a description of my LSE dad (except for the EII wife). Among other things he's a travel organizer and he has trip descriptions on his travel website, "Day 6. 9.5km and 400m rise. The day begins at the valley and we walk on a rocky hillside for 3 km, then we will reach a small lake which is unsuitable for swimming. It is a very beautiful natural lake." etc. I'm not exaggerating at all. He has 20-day trips planned out like this.

[snegledmaca]

It is the hardest thing, IME, to convince an LSE of anything new. Like, any fundamental, real concept. You might be able to tack some obscure structure ontop of their existing fundamentals, and give them some kind of awkward converter to help them deal with the world, but that's about it.

Perhaps the LSE sees your Ni as mysticism and as such redundant and even counterproductive. And your Fe as being shallow and distracting. So when you approach them while being all dramatic and mystical they see you as a rambling fool and what you say to be disregarded as having no substance and relevance.