Hey dude. By that explanation i would definately also be an Fi subtype. Im fairly good at sports too. I would probablly prefer to see myself as the Ne subtype as they are more intellectual but im fairly sure im not. My Ti is indeed quite weak
Yeah organisation sucks pretty hard. I think ive met Ne focussed Enfp's and they are the more quirky kind?
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Every time I think I get a handle on the organization thing, stuff goes to pot again. I was just thinking about that last night as I was looking for a misplaced something or other. It seems that mail just comes in too fast for me to sort it. Junk mail is the bane of an ENFp. Especially when some company like Pottery Barn gets you on their list and you receive 3 catalogs from them in one week.
One trick has helped me tremendously in cleaning my house - setting a timer for 2 minutes and then concentrating on putting away all the tiny bits of junk that I set down and forget about. It's amazing what you can do in 2 minutes.
I have no idea which subtype I am. I just feel talkative right now
ring up pottery barn and say "NO MORE POTS! or im gonna cram a pot up your ass". Or put a no junk mail sign on ur letterbox.
I understand the cleaning part. I like to do it as fast as possible too. Once i do clean though i normally go for quite a while. *clean mode engaged*. Im happy to do the dishes / put stuff away as thats the most easy cleaning task for biggest return. Actually getting marks of walls and things i cant do tho
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I think I'm the Fi subtype. I have always pretty pretty good at athletic things. I do get very easily confused by Ti stuff. Even the concept of Ti gives me a headache. I think I'm also more insecure at times than the Ne subtypes, who can sound more definite in what they're saying, versus "it could be this, or that or this, or i could be wrong, etc (which is what I'd say). But I am good at being sympathetic/getting along w/ people so maybe that's the Fi.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Your a diamond.Originally Posted by jewels
Haha so many Fi subtypes. Are you guys more withdrawn and quiet or more "soul of the party" kind?
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
"Yes, it will be done."
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
Im exactly the same Jewels! more withdrawn and quiet. Although im not entirely withdrawn depending on what mood im in. Im also very social, i understand how to get along with people very well. Its a real conscious desicion for me to socialise, i can if i feel like it. When i was younger i was definately the life of the party, everyone loved me. Now yeah now not so much.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I'm super quiet. A lot of people think I'm introverted. But I'm also very, very talkative. People who know me well, especially guys tell me I talk too much. I can be very outgoing when I notice someone who is quiet or looks awkward, to make them more comfortable. I'm also very outgoing in groups of friends who are slightlly boring and/or need entertainment. But if everyone seems entertained, I sorta sit back. Around Betas, I'm especially quiet as there seems there is nothing to add.Im exactly the same Jewels! more withdrawn and quiet. Although im not entirely withdrawn depending on what mood im in. Im also very social, i understand how to get along with people very well. Its a real conscious desicion for me to socialise, i can if i feel like it
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
hey Kewels can you be my honorary sister? im an only child but i think that you and i were seperated at birth
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
This "...life of the party" description is annoying. ENFps on this board usually say they can be the life of a party, provided it's the right kind of party with the right kind of people, and provided they feel comfortable and not too tired and etc etc etc. So, the description? Pretty useless.
As I see it, it's a scale.
(1) sad, lonely, bored to tears. Person wilts, withdraws into self and goes "...I'm doomed..."
(2) serious, focussed on a task, sometimes to the point of making people shout at us repeatedly before we go "...uh? ...oh, you said something?"
(3) quiet, harmless, needs to participate more in class discussions.
(4) lively, energetic, doing five things simultaneously, easily distracted, a firework of new ideas. Stand-up comedy. Free entertainment for the discerning ISTp.
(5) silly switch.
Right/wrong?
Correct. I would agree with this description. I would even say that sometimes I am none of these. I don't allow my self much boredom either. I usually have some mental stimulation going on which may or may not have anything to do with what's going on around me. I've definitely gone through periods of being the life of the party but I think now not so much. I don't even go to parties much anymore.
I am talking classes now and have no qualms about speaking up. It just makes it more interesting to be involved than to sit spaced out like other students might. My professors like me because I ask questions and challenge their knowledge of the subject.
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
Originally Posted by jewels
I'm super quiet. A lot of people think I'm introverted. But I'm also very, very talkative. People who know me well, especially guys tell me I talk too much. I can be very outgoing when I notice someone who is quiet or looks awkward, to make them more comfortable. I'm also very outgoing in groups of friends who are slightlly boring and/or need entertainment. But if everyone seems entertained, I sorta sit back. Around Betas, I'm especially quiet as there seems there is nothing to add.I identify with all of this very much. The silly switch is activated in situations where I am totally comfortable and with people I know very well. So people would describe me in different ways depending on how well they know me. People in my department would see me as nice and quiet while close friends would giggle at that.
I was invited to a barbecue once and almost everyone present was beta (except my ESTj friend who invited me). The atmosphere was Fe Fe Fe and I felt like I had nothing to say, so I didn't say much. I get extremely self-conscious in situations like that. Many of them loved crude humor, which I can deal with and can even find funny, but not for 7 hours straight. And of course they thought I don't have a sense of humor and I am stuck-up.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Every now and then I get feed back from people saying they either thought I was stuck up until they got to know me better or that I AM stuck up because I am polite and sometimes use words they are unfamiliar with or are uncommon. So sue me if I have a vocabulary. I like to read. I listen for interesting word groups.
Also there are some people I haven't a clue what to talk to them about. Their lives and interest are too removed for me. We just don't overlap in any areas except the weather. "Nice weather huh?" "Oh yes, very nice. However, they say it might rain next week" "You don't say...."
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
Honestly, I'm not sure what I am yet, though I seem to be ENFP. However, I'm not always quiet (I prefer to be approached as opposed to approaching), and I have little problem speaking up in class.
By the way, Topaz, your sig quote rocks. Nice to find someone else who's seen the List.
I went to a dinner with people and it was a very Fe enviornment. I think I said 2 sentences the entire 5 hour dinner + movie. Except for this gone Brazilian guy, we talked about awesome food.I identify with all of this very much. The silly switch is activated in situations where I am totally comfortable and with people I know very well. So people would describe me in different ways depending on how well they know me. People in my department would see me as nice and quiet while close friends would giggle at that.
I was invited to a barbecue once and almost everyone present was beta (except my ESTj friend who invited me). The atmosphere was Fe Fe Fe and I felt like I had nothing to say, so I didn't say much. I get extremely self-conscious in situations like that. Many of them loved crude humor, which I can deal with and can even find funny, but not for 7 hours straight. And of course they thought I don't have a sense of humor and I am stuck-up.
If you guys are feeling gloomy, what cheers you up?
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
My bro's an ENFp. Can subtypes change? Cause he used to be really social and all that, but now he doesn't seem all that interested in social events. He was telling me that he often feels like he just can't be bothered making an effort to be outgoing. That said, he can still turn it on when he wants to. ENFp's - what's your motivation for being the 'life of the party'? My brother reckons it's really important to him that everyone likes him. He was telling me about this party he went to where he only knew one person - this girl he was interested in. He said that by the end of the night, he had everyone incl. her parents waiting on him hand and foot. lol He said he even chatted up the grandmother and had the girl's mum blushing from his compliments. Apparently, she was running around serving him food and getting drinks for him all night.Boy, I would love to be an ENFp for a day just to see what it feels like.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
hehe. Its not always roses Chopin
Your brother has discovered the secret of ENFp's. Going somewhere where we know nobody is the perfect operating conditions for us. Every time ive made out with girls etc its because im hanging around people i dont know. Theres probablly nothing i enjoy more than going out and winning people over. Something just changes in me.
Around my friends sadly im pretty bored. We just play bored games or beers. See i already know them and cant think of much to talk about anymore.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Do you think it's possible for ENFps to love someone for life? I mean - wouldn't you get bored with them after you got to know them and want to move on? What is it about ISTps that's attractive to you?hehe. Its not always roses Chopin
Your brother has discovered the secret of ENFp's. Going somewhere where we know nobody is the perfect operating conditions for us. Every time ive made out with girls etc its because im hanging around people i dont know. Theres probablly nothing i enjoy more than going out and winning people over. Something just changes in me.
Around my friends sadly im pretty bored. We just play bored games or beers. See i already know them and cant think of much to talk about anymore.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Yes i do. Enfp's enjoy the possibility that something better is out there i cant deny that. We often get bored with relationships because we are right, there is something better out there. People are retarded. They get into stupid relationships that cause all types of heart ache. I would rather be free. When we are with an ISTp hopefully we come to realise that we have finally cracked it. Someone who needs what we have to give and we dont get those itchy feelings. ISTp's are interesting and perplexing people. Its tough i think to fully understand them as they are very differen't to us. I think once we decide we have someone pretty good the doors close on looking for someone else.
What i said about my friends is not entirely true. I stick with them because they are interesting people. Im just bored shitless with girlfriends wanting to spend time with them so they cant go out. Many guys with girlfriends dont need to go out socialising. Which sucks for someone like me.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I can relate to you wanting to be free, prob for different reasons than you though. Maybe I've just been with the wrong guys, but at some point I usu start feeling stifled and I have to get out. Not because I'm bored or see something better - I just start feeling stircrazy and need fresh air.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Do you think its possible you could meet someone who still gives you your space at the same time as not being too distant?
Oh yeah - I'm sure I will - one day. I think I just attract the wrong guys (ENFj, INFj, INFp) - too emotionally intense for me.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Okay, according to istpunk, that makes me the ethical subtype
I don't really have boredom issues with my friends.. but I don't see them every weekend either. I kind of do my own thing, and they do theirs, and it seems to work for us. I do like variety in my activities, though. I tend to come up with whatever sounds interesting that we haven't done in a while and see who wants to come with. Usually they're bored with their rut too, so it works.
I don't know that the word 'bored' really describes why I flake when it comes to dating. I realize very quickly whether the person needs what I have to give and vice versa. I just don't push the issue, because if I do it will never stop bothering me. Guess that's the hypersensitivity to incompatible IM? Trying a relationship out isn't going to get us anywhere 'cause it's already a doomed ship. And I guess I feel that they'll eventually come to that conclusion too, it'll just take them five times longer.
I just don't get why other people don't let their significant other "breathe" for a little bit. I mean, it's really pointless to force to be with each other just because that's what "you're supposed" to be like. If they really love you, they'll come back =]
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
Yeah I totally think this is possible. I think that's the ideal really.
I think it's less about being bored and more about the ability to grow and change while still being with the same person. Staring at a wall is really fun when you're into somebody.
Some people want things to never change and that is stiffling. i read somewhere that what isn't growing is dying, and that feels icky! Ideally, after five years, ten years, etc, you should be completely different people -- both of you. But in a good way. If you complement eachother well, than however you change would be okay (whether that's career, lifestyle, etc.) I think that type of freedom is esential, and usually relationships end when growth isn't there.
I think it's a misconception that ENFPs run from commitment just for the next experiences. Maybe when we're younger...I have dated more than I probably should have. But, that security is really nice and it's what i want more, so long as it doesn't stifle self-growth,
I'm actually getting to the point where first dates are boring and relationships are interesting, because dates are so surface level. In relationships you can see all of those interesting layers (assuming the person has layers). Maybe we ENFPs need layers? Like Shrek w/ the onion thing.
As for the outgoing-ness thing, I vary a lot too. If there is a reason for me to want to get along w/ the people, I will make it happen and be very outgoing. If there is no reason for me to do so, I will sit back and possibly even be bored or look aloof. If I'm looking to ahve fun and especially when I don't know anyone there, I will be charming. But otherwise, I just don't care enough to try. If someone seems interesting and we naturally click I'll talk to them, but I won't mold myself into the shapes necessary to be charming, especially when there is a vibe that I don't "get." It's just too much work as I get older and care slightly less whether people like me.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
That's a good point about things never changing being stifling. I never thought about it like that before ... but I guess that's why I've found past relationships stifling. There's just a long stretch of unswerving predictability in front of you where you know if you press this button, this is going to happen; if you say this, they're going to say that. You feel like they've seen and liked some particular characteristics of yours when you've first met and built this entire character in their head from it who isn't you. Then they get annoyed when you do something 'unpredictable' which in reality is who you actually are.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
I think it's a maturity thing. IEEs will always be intrigued by the possibilities and attracted to start many things, but as you get older you realize that spending time developing a choice pays better in the long term. I mean, somewhere in the road of life you start realizing the real shallowness of constantly changing direction.
It's important, I think, to keep a solid base beneath IEE's feet. Stable friends, stable way of life.
[
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
I have some thoughts about all of this.
First, I found this on the wikisocion and I felt like it was a very good description of the subtypes: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=IEE_subtypes
I was athletic in high school, and I enjoyed sports. But I remember finding myself in situations in which if I was on a bad streak (like for instance, in basketball a cold streak shooting, or in baseball struggling at bat) it really affected me mentally. I just didn't have that mental prowess to be able to let things go and move on. And that's why I didn't really pursue sports after high school, because I just didn't think I was up to it, even though physically I probably would have been just fine and I probably had the capacity to do it. I still really enjoy and appreciate sports to this day, though I'm not an active participant in sports.
Regarding soul of the party vs withdrawn, it really depends for me. I certainly can be both. I think being the soul of the party does happen for me more often in situations where I don't really know the people who are there. But, then again, there are social situations I've been in where I didn't know most of the people and I kept feeling this overwhelming "I gotta get out of here" feeling, and left after being there only for about 15 minutes (10 of which I spent outside pacing around "checking" my voicemails, and I think returning a call or something).
On the other hand of actually being the soul of the party, there's always this worry I have of having too much focus planted on me. It's like, if I end up doing something and it's entertaining everyone there, there's almost this expectation I feel like I need to come up with something else, and I need to RIGHT NOW because everyone's waiting for you. Running out of ideas really sucks, and I buckle under the spotlight when that happens, because when I improvise, it might work for a minute or two, and then it just falls apart. As long as I have stuff I can do that's different, I'm all right.
This of course is all predicated on comfort level. How comfortable am I there? How well do people know me? (Being anonymous is cool if you can leave a good impression imo)
Yup. Although (1) will sometimes manifest in me in a sort of panic as well. Not all the time. I also withdraw when I don't feel like I can add anything different or insightful to conversations or social situations. And so, I appear quiet to others and people asking "What's wrong?" a lot, things like that. But yes, that is a pretty good range for me as well.
I would like to add that participating in class also went back and forth for me as far as being in the front, actively participating, talking to the lecturer after class, and then also being reserved and in the middle/towards the back of the room. And that was dependent on how comfortable I felt with the lecturer and the people in the class. Is the lecturer the type that says they welcome all questions, but seem to still shoot down the retarted questions? If that was the case, I probably wouldn't say much at all, even if I had a question... just hope someone else asked it. If the lecturer poses a question to the class and I was somewhat sure of the answer, there were a handful of times I wouldn't answer it. If I got a vibe from a lecturer that people were just wasting his/her time, I wouldn't bother going up to them after class if I had a question. If the atmosphere of the class was ... I'll just call it "hostile", I would tend to not say anything at all and just take my notes and move on to the next class. If it was more welcoming and open, I'd feel more apt to speak up.
I haven't dated much at all in my life. That's a loaded topic and maybe I'll discuss it more later, but I just wanted to state briefly how it has been for me.
Ok, that's my thoughts. Hope that helps.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
Yeah i've had a couple of partners trying to work me out. Personally I dont think i'm that complicated, but at the same time I am. Maybe one of you ENFp's dudes could take a pop at it haha
ENFp will settle on something eventually, that's true, to make a living, but ideally it will be a profession that allows the change of direction ENFp needs. I am in teaching and research because I can change things up, take my research in different directions and use the knowledge I have gained through what you refer to as "the real shallowness" of changing directions to establish contexts, contextualize ideas, and so on. Part of why I believe I am a good teacher is because I am in some way familiar with many issues, fields, cultures, etc. and I can provide a context for most issues that my students bring up in class. I might not be an expert on all of them, but I know enough to address the issue. And regardless of what I pick as my focus in any given time, I will ALWAYS keep exploring seemingly unrelated areas because I love to learn. My dissertation topic was born out of many changes of directions, that I eventually was able to synthesize into an innovative project. In my mind, that's how ENFp works.
Changing directions refines ENFp's Ne filter and makes ENFp creative and innovative. If you, at some point in your life, realized the "real shallowness" of constantly changing directions, then you cannot be an ENFp. That's just ludicrous.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I haven't had exactly those experiences, but I can relate to what you're saying. That's more or less what I meant. Sometimes there's this stereotype of ENFps being all about "wheeee!" and waterfights and openness and love and understanding and gambollings with butterflies and pink unicorns. Whenever I read descriptions of that type I'm certain that I can't be an ENFp. I'm outgoing in some situations and extremely tongue-tied in others, and it's not even something straightforward - I mean, I'm outgoing with strangers and then, after I've known them for a while, I get kind of shy - how strange is THAT?! That isn't what it's supposed to be like, or is it? And I've also done that thing where you make people laugh or something, and then you suddenly realize that you've actually succeeded, and that makes you freeze up. Or sometimes I long for company, and then when I get it, I'm feeling trapped and I'd give anything to be at my laptop working on some useless story.
Sometimes I wonder whether ISTps and ENFps aren't in some kind of "tortured soul" contest. Perhaps that's part of our appeal for ISTps - "whoa, compared to you I'm straight-forward!"
That's not changing direction, that's simply increasing your Te. I do that too.
Shallowness would be to have a future as a teacher and drop it for whatever catches your mind this week.
[
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Or you simply have different ideas about what "changing directions" means. Both Kim and Mikemex have a point. I'll give an example to show what I mean. When I was a child I did lots of creative things - writing, drawing, music, writing songs, learning languages. I didn't focus on any of those though, so... let's just say it's good that I threw most of that stuff away. Then I started to focus on writing. But I still started lots of projects without finishing them. Sooner or later I'd lose interest, or I'd come up with new ideas that seemed far more exciting than the old ones. Nowadays I'm trying to keep going until the story is done. If it becomes boring, I try to change directions within the story. Changing directions is still important. But it's less about abandoning old projects and starting new ones, and more about finding variety and somehow combining it into one project.
Kim gave a good example of how she's made her desire for variety work for her. I'm hoping to make it work for my stories by writing interesting plotlines and characters, and by tricks like having two or three stories on the go simultaneously, perhaps at different stages, so you're writing the first draft of one, filling out the blanks in another, and editing a third.
Some ENFps do this -- just drop everything and go 'chase a rainbow' or some naive crap like that -- especially when younger... I sure did. (E.g. at 18 I left college in England and moved to Germany without knowing the language--pretty much on a whim... Everyone told me I was an idiot.) A lot of you other ENFps probably did/do a lot of impulsive stuff too. Probably with mixed results too, (like me.)
Schrodinger's Cat provides an excellent example... It's not that an ENFp's interests stop changing as they mature, or even that they become less impulsive, it's that ENFps are better able to incorporate their changes of interest/impulsivity into an established framework, e.g. interdisciplinary studies in academia, simultaneous plotlines in writings, journalism that investigates widely varying topics, etc.
That's not shallow to me. I have done that and have no regrets, quite the contrary.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Change of direction, in my mind, can be as foolish as it can be courageous, but there is nothing "shallow" about it. And I have a hard time seeing an ENFp who rejects changing directions, career or what have you.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I've experienced changing directions as well to many degrees.
The most glaring example of this for me was what I decided for my career towards the end of college. I was on my way to an Electrical Engineering degree, and in my senior year I strongly considered dropping the major and starting with a new major. I didn't start to think about that until my senior year. The major became a chore for me, and I started to grind through it instead of enjoying it. I had a very good idea of what industry would be like, and I just didn't feel like it was a good fit for me. I picked the major initially for several reasons, but I did enjoy the first 2 years of the major very much. I started very strongly, and I faded very badly towards the end and ended up with a 3.46. While that alone looks good, and while I could have forced myself into industry and probably been fine there, it just didn't feel right.
I was convinced by others to finish the degree since I was so close to the end (had it not been for them, I probably would have dropped the major) but I decided at that moment that I would not pursue an engineering job. There are several layers of this, but that's essentially what it boiled down to.
I got a lot of puzzled looks, most particularly from immediate family. That was a pretty trying time for me because I got a lot of flak and a lot of guilt trips about wasted time and money. I got a lot of flak for passing up a career that would have paid me well (since I made it clear that money was not a big enough reason to choose a career)
To some degree, I'm still looking, even though at the moment I have a good job that I enjoy. I'm at a point in my life where I'm still looking for that thing that completely motivates me and excites me.
And that brings me to the other area: hobby-like interests. There are so many things that I dabble in and get my hands in. Probably in hopes of finding "it". The interests will rotate around in a very "changing direction" way as well. I'll do something like, say, I'll focus on playing guitar for a period of time. And then, something happens and I move on to another interest. There are several interests I have ON TOP OF my interests I get my hands in that I would classify as "I'd like to get into that". I'd love to take up cello, for instance.
So I identify with these sentiments a lot. There is a sense of unsettling searching... but I do think that once I find "it", I'll know it.
So, I feel in line with what a lot of you are talking about as well.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
I had a friend who once mentioned my extreme unpredictability. I don't think it damaged our friendship, though. I don't know whether he got used to it, enjoyed it, or just didn't find it worth mentioning again.
I'd never thought of that.
*glomps schrödinger's cat* Kindred! *looks for Tereg while she's at it* It's so great to find people like me, spastic, attention-deficit and all.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Ooh!... Oooooh! *raises arm and holds it up with my other arm*
Over here!
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
*glomps Tereg*
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
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