IEE-ESE Benefit Relations (ESFj and ENFp)

[yellow82]

yeah IMO DON'T go for it. it's better to stay the good friends that you already are than to risk losing him completely because you want to try out the romantic arena. i mean, it's not guaranteed that you'll lose him but there's a good chance that if it doesn't work out then the friendship will be done too. having that history might be awkward. another good reason is you don't actually have any sort of attraction to him aside from his looks. you'll find someone else, someone who you also care for and find attractive. AND you get to stay friends with him.

Yeah, I've been wondering about this. . . my ENTp best-pal also told me not to. . . or at least to inform him first that I "want" to have feelings for him, and I think we're a good fit, but that the feelings aren't there yet.

just curious: what did you say to him before, whenever he would mention his feelings for you?

The First Time: I told him that he was too young for me (there is an age difference, and at 15 it's HUGE! )

The Second Time: I had feelings and was with another guy. . . I had thought that he had realized that but he still seemed to develop feelings for me anyway.

The Third Time: I told him that I was in love with (said guy above) and that I simply saw him as a little/big brother.

The Fourth Time: I told him that there were no feelings on my side, and that I was trying to get over my ex. . . I wasn't looking for a relationship.



So yeah. . . but then again it's been an off and on thing for five years. I actually had never considered it until now. (Because I wasn't even attracted to him back in the day.)

Now, he's pretty good-looking, I feel comfortable around him, we're very close emotionally and there's a lot of pluses. . . I just don't feel that emotional-passion. . . and I wonder if that would come with time, if I opened up my heart to the possibility? We have everything else. . . sometimes I wonder if I'm throwing away the best thing ever offered to me. . .

[Park]

yeah IMO DON'T go for it. it's better to stay the good friends that you already are than to risk losing him completely because you want to try out the romantic arena. i mean, it's not guaranteed that you'll lose him but there's a good chance that if it doesn't work out then the friendship will be done too. having that history might be awkward. another good reason is you don't actually have any sort of attraction to him aside from his looks. you'll find someone else, someone who you also care for and find attractive. AND you get to stay friends with him.

How old were you again? Exactly.

[CILi]

I just don't feel that emotional-passion. . . and I wonder if that would come with time, if I opened up my heart to the possibility? We have everything else. . . sometimes I wonder if I'm throwing away the best thing ever offered to me. . .

Socionics aside, do you have really, really, really similar goals in life?

Similar values on what's "important"?

Similar views on "who" and "where" you wanna be 5, 10, or 20+ years from now?

'Cause in the case that you do, I'm pretty sure you could (with mutual effort) learn to smooth all that "personality" stuff out.

[Park]

My advice is to take CILi's advice.

Sociotype: Your Dual

Damn straight.

[Jenna]

Yeah, I've been wondering about this. . . my ENTp best-pal also told me not to. . . or at least to inform him first that I "want" to have feelings for him, and I think we're a good fit, but that the feelings aren't there yet.

yeah, that's good advice, if you do decide to.

The First Time: I told him that he was too young for me (there is an age difference, and at 15 it's HUGE! )

The Second Time: I had feelings and was with another guy. . . I had thought that he had realized that but he still seemed to develop feelings for me anyway.

The Third Time: I told him that I was in love with (said guy above) and that I simply saw him as a little/big brother.

The Fourth Time: I told him that there were no feelings on my side, and that I was trying to get over my ex. . . I wasn't looking for a relationship.

So yeah. . . but then again it's been an off and on thing for five years. I actually had never considered it until now. (Because I wasn't even attracted to him back in the day.)

dang lol seems like he had really bad timing on ALL of those

Now, he's pretty good-looking, I feel comfortable around him, we're very close emotionally and there's a lot of pluses. . . I just don't feel that emotional-passion. . . and I wonder if that would come with time, if I opened up my heart to the possibility? We have everything else. . . sometimes I wonder if I'm throwing away the best thing ever offered to me. . .

hmm.. i see what you mean. but what if you tried for the relationship and then those feelings never came? would you still stick around?

i think that if you are willing to face that you may never have those feelings for him (though you can still try of course), and if you're still willing to make it work despite that, THEN you can go for it.

*shrugs* one of the benefits of you already being friends is that you know how he operates and vice versa, so you can skip a lot of obstacles often faced in new relationships haha.


fwiw, i had a relationship with my best friend, though he was my semi-dual. i don't like putting too much about my personal life on the internet but it was full of a lot of ups and downs, for non-socionics related reasons, and also non-best friend related reasons, lol (well, maybe the ups, just not the downs) but we WERE better able to handle our issues because of being friends prior to the relationship.


(sorry if anything doesn't make sense, headache haha, but just ask and i can probably clear it up..)

How old were you again? Exactly.

don't be bitter just because you've been in the same situation as this IEE.

[Park]

How old were you again? Exactly.

don't be bitter just because you've been in the same situation as this IEE.

Don't try to "give advice" like you're an experienced 30 year old, which you're clearly not, because while you might enjoy chit-chatting about these things, what you say here can have a discouraging effect on someone who has perfectly reasonable hopes.

[ClaudiaM]

I'm wondering, is there any way that I can create that passion within myself?

Genuinely, no.

Should I try the relationship out?

Absolutely yes.

Does anyone know any IEE-ESE couples. . . how are their relationships?

IME, frustrating beyond belief.

-Extrovert + -Extrovert = ...A Dead Extrovert.

I do not understand this post at all. Maybe this is an Ne vs. Ni thing, but you acknowledge that it is impossible to conjur up passion where it is not naturally present, you state that Fi extrovert + Fe extrovert = frustrating, and THEN you tell her to go for it? WTF??

yeah IMO DON'T go for it. it's better to stay the good friends that you already are than to risk losing him completely because you want to try out the romantic arena. i mean, it's not guaranteed that you'll lose him but there's a good chance that if it doesn't work out then the friendship will be done too. having that history might be awkward. another good reason is you don't actually have any sort of attraction to him aside from his looks. you'll find someone else, someone who you also care for and find attractive. AND you get to stay friends with him.

Pretty much, this.

There's a lot to lose and little to gain from being with someone you love in a "sisterly" way. You seem to know the answer to your own question, from the way you worded your post (maybe even from the fact that you posted it at all). It will be short-lived and painless at best, or short- or long-lived, painful, and friendship-destroying at worst.

[Park]

Genuinely, no.


Absolutely yes.


IME, frustrating beyond belief.

-Extrovert + -Extrovert = ...A Dead Extrovert.

I do not understand this post at all. Maybe this is an Ne vs. Ni thing, but you acknowledge that it is impossible to conjur up passion where it is not naturally present, you state that Fi extrovert + Fe extrovert = frustrating, and THEN you tell her to go for it? WTF??

yeah IMO DON'T go for it. it's better to stay the good friends that you already are than to risk losing him completely because you want to try out the romantic arena. i mean, it's not guaranteed that you'll lose him but there's a good chance that if it doesn't work out then the friendship will be done too. having that history might be awkward. another good reason is you don't actually have any sort of attraction to him aside from his looks. you'll find someone else, someone who you also care for and find attractive. AND you get to stay friends with him.

Pretty much, this.

There's a lot to lose and little to gain from being with someone you love in a "sisterly" way. You seem to know the answer to your own question, from the way you worded your post (maybe even from the fact that you posted it at all). It will be short-lived and painless at best, or short- or long-lived, painful, and friendship-destroying at worst.

Are you 5 years old, too?

[Jenna]

Don't try to "give advice" like you're an experienced 30 year old, which you're clearly not, because while you might enjoy chit-chatting about these things, what you say here can have a discouraging effect on someone who has perfectly reasonable hopes.

I don't understand where your hostility is coming from. Yeah she does have reasonable hopes, I'm not denying that, but everyone was telling her to jump into it, even though it can mess up her friendship with him forever. I do have experience with dating friends, and having friends who have feelings for me that aren't returned. No, I'm not some "experienced 30 year old" I was staying my opinion like everyone else. Your reaction was harsh and uncalled for.

There's a lot to lose and little to gain from being with someone you love in a "sisterly" way. You seem to know the answer to your own question, from the way you worded your post (maybe even from the fact that you posted it at all). It will be short-lived and painless at best, or short- or long-lived, painful, and friendship-destroying at worst.

[Park]

Wtf, what hostility?

edit: Whatever, I don't care.

[ClaudiaM]

Parkster, you're an ass and a moron. A dangerous combination.

Oh, well.

[Park]

I appreciate the compliment. The feelings are mutual.

[CILi]

I do not understand [your] post at all. Maybe this is an Ne vs. Ni thing, but you acknowledge that it is impossible to conjur up passion where it is not naturally present, you state that Fi extrovert + Fe extrovert = frustrating, and THEN you tell her to go for it? WTF??

The odds are pretty ridiculously stacked against yellow and the beau; but, per the magic of ...

[ClaudiaM]

I appreciate the compliment. The feelings are mutual.

I do not understand [your] post at all. Maybe this is an Ne vs. Ni thing, but you acknowledge that it is impossible to conjur up passion where it is not naturally present, you state that Fi extrovert + Fe extrovert = frustrating, and THEN you tell her to go for it? WTF??

The odds are pretty ridiculously stacked against yellow and the beau; but, per the magic of ...

lol

Yellow, you're a grown woman I presume, and you should do what feels right for you. I'm just saying in response to the request for advice that I think going forward romantically here is a bad idea, unlikely to lead to any good. Well, unless you consider the personal growth that comes from losing a dear one, blah blah blah

[Bardia]

I'm not really "attracted" to him romantically.

You answered your own question right there. I'm pretty sure you are just stringing him along for your own emotional benefit if you don't want to have some sort of serious relationship down the road.

[yellow82]

Thank you everyone for your input. I've realized as of late that if the feelings aren't there, it isn't worth trying. So I'm going to hold off on the idea of a relationship as of right now.

I'm pretty sure you are just stringing him along for your own emotional benefit if you don't want to have some sort of serious relationship down the road.

Wow. Accusation much?

I'm not stringing him along whatsoever. . . especially not now since I'm realizing that I am uncertain about how it would end up.

But we are friends. Extremely close friends. . . in fact, we adopted each other as brother-sister a few years back. So I "do" still talk to him. And we "do" still hang out. And I know people that would consider it flirting but it's not. I do it with everyone. Quite literally. . .

People now adays have an odd definition of "stringing him along" and "flirting". . . they're things I do naturally without even thinking of it like that at all.

Where did the days go when it wasn't flirting for a girl to just out of the blue say hi to a guy? How has friendly turned into "flirting". How has chivalry turned into "he's into me"? It's really sad when you stop to think about it. . . especially for people like me where it would be completely against my grain to not be friendly. . . .

I've had people say: "Well just cut back on the friendly bit." And my reaction is an honest: "how?"

I can't be someone that isn't me. I'm sorry. And I hate the culture I live in. . . .

[Jenna]

If that's how you are, then that's how you are. No need to change for others. It isn't even something bad. You are very friendly, and some guys may think you are flirting and so they ask you out, but I guess that's the price you have to pay

[Bardia]

I'm pretty sure you are just stringing him along for your own emotional benefit if you don't want to have some sort of serious relationship down the road.

Wow. Accusation much?

I'm not stringing him along whatsoever. . . especially not now since I'm realizing that I am uncertain about how it would end up.

But we are friends. Extremely close friends. . . in fact, we adopted each other as brother-sister a few years back. So I "do" still talk to him. And we "do" still hang out. And I know people that would consider it flirting but it's not. I do it with everyone. Quite literally. . .

People now adays have an odd definition of "stringing him along" and "flirting". . . they're things I do naturally without even thinking of it like that at all.

That statement had an implication that it only applied if you started dating him. You said you weren't romantically attracted to him so if you dated him it would be to fulfill your own desires since he has expressed that he is romantically interested in you in the past.

[chip]

Yellow, I can remember you posting a forum nearly identical in theme except the roles were reverse. Before you were interested in a INTJ who after years of friendship you suddenly realised you were in love with him but were uncertain as to weather or not he felt the same, etc. The difference now is after years of friendship an ENFP is in love with you and your not sure how you really feel. I don't take you seriously. That is to say your flippant.

[redbaron]

I know a male ENFp and a female ESFj, married for about 15 years. But with plenty of issues/problems.

[yellow82]

Yellow, I can remember you posting a forum nearly identical in theme except the roles were reverse. Before you were interested in a INTJ who after years of friendship you suddenly realised you were in love with him but were uncertain as to weather or not he felt the same, etc. The difference now is after years of friendship an ENFP is in love with you and your not sure how you really feel. I don't take you seriously. That is to say your flippant.

Haha. "suddenly realized"? More like, had feelings for for years. . . there wasn't anything sudden about that one at all. . .

I also don't see how this makes me flippant. . . if things don't work out, you move on. You get back into the dating game. . . I've been in the "dating game" for a good 6 months now. That's quite a lot of time for a "recovery period" for something that I wasn't that deeply into yet. . .

Also, if one of your best-friends had feelings for you, wouldn't you consider them before you turned them down? Especially if you were single?

I really fail to see how this makes "me" flippant. I've taken both situations very seriously. . . I asked you all for help to look at all the different angles and possibilities. I didn't take either of the decisions lightly. . . so yes, I fail to see your point of view.

I know a male ENFp and a female ESFj, married for about 15 years. But with plenty of issues/problems.

Well, tbh, every marriage has "problems", but what problems do they experience? Do you know?

[chip]

ummm in my experience when you love someone but it doesn't work out then you get over them (rebounding) or as some people like to call it "moving on" depending upon the individual's own pace. Basically I have an emotional void that I'm trying to fill. The more I like the person the more I miss them.

All I mean to suggest is you built up your interest in the INTJ to be more than what it really was and your repeating yourself now with the ENFP. The reason is your dragging the past behind and not seeing true reality. Sounds like your searching for a solution rather than a companion. To be serious about anyone means your deeply committed to them. A contrary notion to 'there's plenty more fish in the sea'.

A optimistic point of view would be to imagine yourself happily married and the same for the INTj and ENFp and any other love interest (past, present or future) to be in the same situation. Therefore you eliminate any negativity or selfishness or self-pity. What I am suggesting is depending upon your on-look on life you can be happy with your ex, the INTj or ENFp but all you have to decide is what kind of happiness do you want? Happiness is expressed a thousand different ways and you can experience it differently with different people. So there is no such thing as the right or wrong person. Realisitically you can be happy with someone else and so can the ENFp and INTj.

My personal advice is make sure your happy no matter who your with and I do not mean having a malicious free license to be a bitch. Next, find a potential partner who is already happy so then you can only make your lives even more happier together.

That dreary sense of needing someone because their miserable without them makes no different. Really those people are miserable with people as they are without them. However when your a happy person you can even be happy with a miserable person but those moments maybe few and far between.

[yellow82]

That is interesting. . . the only real issue I've had with Daniel is I have a tendency of laying over and "playing dead" so to speak. . . I practically let him do whatever he wants.

He hates it. . . he's like, have an opinion already! So, I've been learning to not just go: "oh that sounds like fun!" every time he makes a suggestion. . .

I can change not having an opinion pretty easily. . .

Hmmm. . . what makes the ESE seem loud? I've never had anyone really call me "loud" before. Friendly, yes. . . opinionated? Sometimes. . . extroverted in the extreme? All the time. . . but not "loud". . .

[yellow82]

ummm in my experience when you love someone but it doesn't work out then you get over them (rebounding) or as some people like to call it "moving on" depending upon the individual's own pace. Basically I have an emotional void that I'm trying to fill. The more I like the person the more I miss them.

All I mean to suggest is you built up your interest in the INTJ to be more than what it really was and your repeating yourself now with the ENFP. The reason is your dragging the past behind and not seeing true reality. Sounds like your searching for a solution rather than a companion. To be serious about anyone means your deeply committed to them. A contrary notion to 'there's plenty more fish in the sea'.

A optimistic point of view would be to imagine yourself happily married and the same for the INTj and ENFp and any other love interest (past, present or future) to be in the same situation. Therefore you eliminate any negativity or selfishness or self-pity. What I am suggesting is depending upon your on-look on life you can be happy with your ex, the INTj or ENFp but all you have to decide is what kind of happiness do you want? Happiness is expressed a thousand different ways and you can experience it differently with different people. So there is no such thing as the right or wrong person. Realisitically you can be happy with someone else and so can the ENFp and INTj.

My personal advice is make sure your happy no matter who your with and I do not mean having a malicious free license to be a bitch. Next, find a potential partner who is already happy so then you can only make your lives even more happier together.

That dreary sense of needing someone because their miserable without them makes no different. Really those people are miserable with people as they are without them. However when your a happy person you can even be happy with a miserable person but those moments maybe few and far between.

Wow. Ok. Let's get some things "straight" here. . . the ENFp told me that he has feelings for me, and that he wants to be with me. . . that leaves me having to make a choice. Considering we are so close, and I am single, and he "is" a nice guy and meets my criteria, I am going to consider committing to him, which is what this thread was all about. Looking at the pros and cons of starting a relationship with him.

Now, what happened with the INTj really doesn't matter. . . that's all in the past. He's with another girl, I'm very busy with school. . . and we're still friends throughout everything. I didn't turn my back on him, and in my opinion I behaved in a very self-sacrificing way, not in a selfish way. If I was selfish, I would have dropped him like a hat, moved on by going out with every guy that asked me out, and made his life as miserable as possible. . . obviously, I could have done that, but I chose not to, because I do care about him and always will. . . I don't say things that I don't mean.

But being practical, I'm not an idiotic INTj that stays around somebody that they "love" forever, hoping and wishing that someday their "true" love will notice them and fall in love with them like they always dreamed. . . even after they've been told no about a dozen times. . . IDIOTS! I always tell an INTj to move on when I hear that story, and trust me, I hear it a LOT!

Now, I may always have feelings for the INTj before-hand, but I'm not going to sit here and cry like a baby and turn down every nice guy that comes my way simply because my heart is still in love with the former INTj. . . it's simply impractical.

The ENFp here is very nice and we've been close for years. He's always loved me no matter what, been there for me through everything etc. (that means something to me.)

Mr. X (INTj) is not going to come back. He's very happy with the INFj girl that he's with. They're going to get married, and probably be reasonably happy for the rest of their lives. . . I'm not going to wait simply because I have feelings for him. That would be stupid. . .

So that leaves me with a choice, marry the nice ENFp, or take a chance that "maybe" a nice INTj or ENTp will come strolling down the road my way in the future. I've decided to take the second all because I'm still young, there's still time and I'd rather wait for my heart to be into a relationship then not into it.

I wish both the ENFp and INTj well.

[Airman]

Try it out. Don't get narrow in this Socionics thing.
Relationships can be good between any type even conflictors, love is beyond all this, though the best relation is with your dual and activator IMO.

But anyway, if these are YOUR feelings, go for it and see what happens. Don't hesitate, never, because this will lead you to lose great opportunities in life, even when they don't work out as you would have them, you learn something from it all.

I'm more interested in Enneagram now, what's your E-type, and his, do you know, yellow?

[yellow82]

Hmmm. . . I think we're both 2's. . . but I'd have to double-check his to make sure. . . "goes off to check"

[Airman]

Hmmm. . . I think we're both 2's. . . but I'd have to double-check his to make sure. . . "goes off to check"

We can talk about this in the Enneagram section of this forum. Go for what you will, don't stay in hesitation and overthinking because this will only lead you to inertia and more confusion. I'm talking what worked out for ME, IME, as an E6, but I see lots of E2s also hesitating too much.

[yellow82]

I just went to double check, and yeah we're both a definite 2. . .

I found it interesting when he took an MBTI test recently and got ESFJ as well as I. . . although he is a typical "ENFp" in Socionics and I am a typical "ESFj" in Socionics. . . perhaps it has something more to do with our Enneagram type?

[redbaron]

Relationships can be good between any type even conflictors, love is beyond all this

oh boy. proceed at your own risk.

And, as for the specific problems my friends have, I don't know a lot of specifics. Their family is loud and active and can be fun but it's clear that they don't have the sort of balance they need. I do think the ENFp loves the ESFjs cooking and baking!! The stuff she does in the kitchen is amazing. They both had careers they loved (before she quit after they had kids) and they used to live in NYC and have a very active social life. They're still kinda like that--they know everyone and are always out and about, even with three young kids. They're a fun couple actually. I like them a lot.

And no, not every couple has problems. Not the kind of problems I'm talking about where you get really down about it. I mean there are minor squabbles, that's not what I mean at all. I mean problems that persist and become larger than you as a couple. I mean, have you ever been married? No? Okay then. Forget it.

[Beautiful sky]

Benefit relations are a warm attractive relations at first, but the Beneficiary (ENFp) tries to find a way to escape the relations due to too much pressure being applied in psychological areas that they don't value. This is suggestive Si from ESE. The ENFp wants the ESFj and all of their relations to do Si for them not to suggest to them and then wait and hope for them to do it for the ESE.

[yellow82]

And no, not every couple has problems. Not the kind of problems I'm talking about where you get really down about it. I mean there are minor squabbles, that's not what I mean at all. I mean problems that persist and become larger than you as a couple. I mean, have you ever been married? No? Okay then. Forget it.

Umm. . . isn't a normal ESE, IEE reaction to get down when their relationship isn't working amazingly atm? Or is that just me?

[Beautiful sky]

And no, not every couple has problems. Not the kind of problems I'm talking about where you get really down about it. I mean there are minor squabbles, that's not what I mean at all. I mean problems that persist and become larger than you as a couple. I mean, have you ever been married? No? Okay then. Forget it.

Umm. . . isn't a normal ESE, IEE reaction to get down when their relationship isn't working amazingly atm? Or is that just me?

That's a typical ESE reaction; IEE would make efforts to leave the relationship.

[CILi]

Umm. . . isn't a normal ESE, IEE reaction to get down when their relationship isn't working amazingly atm? Or is that just me?

That's a typical ESE reaction; IEE would make efforts to leave the relationship.

You sure that's type-related?

[Park]

Don't worry yellow, you'll find your prince on a white horse one day, and live happily ever after. Just make sure you're the one riding the horse, cause you know, LIIs can be a bit clumsy.

[Beautiful sky]

That's a typical ESE reaction; IEE would make efforts to leave the relationship.

You sure that's type-related?

Actually, you may be right.

[Crispy]

No Maritsa, you were right:

(About Creative Fi) Politician reinforces positive attitudes, values ​​relationships and acquaintances, is able to forgive and move on reconciliation (+ R). Advisor, severing the relationship, does not seek to recover them, so that distances itself from unpleasant people, acutely perceives interpersonal negative (-R).

In the general case at least

[Beautiful sky]

Thanks Crispy,

My mind kept going back and forth and I couldn't get why. Thank you very much.

[yellow82]

Don't worry yellow, you'll find your prince on a white horse one day, and live happily ever after. Just make sure you're the one riding the horse, cause you know, LIIs can be a bit clumsy.

[InvisibleJim]

Can anyone point out two forum members who display an interaction style reminiscent of these two types interacting?

[anndelise]

Might be better placed in Intertype Relations section?
There's plenty of discussions happening on other Intertype Relations there, ESE-IEE Benefactor/Benafactee might make a useful addition. I'd be happy to talk about one of my neightbors and one of my old friends there, and our interactions with each other.