LSE-IEE activity relations (ENFp & ESTj)

[meatburger]

Before i start, i would like to admit that these problems are mostly mine but maybe by voicing them i will get some peace lol.

I am currently at War with a number of ESTj's.

1) I have been friends with an ESTj guy since i was 5 years old. Lately since hes studying medicine and hes got an INFj girlfriend he has been largely innaccessable. If he does something with me he always has to leave early. His girlfriend is quite demanding of his time and gets upset if he doesn't hang around with her every second night. I cant explain what annoys me, but he seems really arrogant lately, and its as if he looks down on me from his Superior life. He even likened Socionics to religeon the other night. He seems to love to question everything everyone says...

2) Another ESTj i work with became interested in me instantly at a party we went to. He is in a second level group and i used to go and visit him all the time etc. One time recently i went to his house where it was me and about 8 of his friends and he ridiculed me infront of them. It really hurt and angered me.

3) Finally the 3rd ESTj is a girl at work. She has been there less time than me and she thinks shes the bees knees. She loves to order people around. She rang me up the other day and pointed out an error i did(which was about as miniscule as an ATOM) and told me not to do it again. Bascially im probablly better at my job than her and no one really likes her as shes like that with everyone..

The war: (my stupid way of dealing with it)

So basically i have been really cold to the 3 of them lately. The girl left work with another guy and wished everyone merry xmas and i wished him merry xmas not acknowledging her, she definately noticed.

Then the other IT guy came over to my area and sat next to me to talk, and basically i just ignored him only giving him 1/10 of my attention in front of my colleagues until he just walked off.

Then the other night i did a similar ignoring thing with my friend. I think i enjoyed making him feel uncomfortable

Anyway im not proud of this its really immature and sad. To be honest as my Activity i think i must expect them to be nice to me. There are two other ESTj girls at work and i really like them. One even gave me a free longneck beer for helping her.

In this way i think i do fit the ENFp description well as this is probablly part of some Bizzare Ethical game to see how much they actually care and to hurt them..

I would love to hear from Smilex / Cracka with some ideas

[XoX]

You have inferiority complex. And ESTjs are pricks sometimes yes.

[meatburger]

Yeah. Your confirming what i suspected Xox..

Never really had my EGO confirmed as a youngin as my ISTj father put me down that much. Its not his fault tho.

Looks like i need more Soul Searching

[Slacker]

From what I've seen, ESTjs and ISTps like to tease ENFps. And maybe INFjs, I don't know. And I tend to tease them back. In the early months with my husband, this was probably our biggest hurdle - we had to establish some rules about what was off limits, and there are different rules for "alone" and "in front of other people" so it was a bit tricky. So I can see the #2 scenario and it really just takes time with someone to get that established. ESTjs seem to be a bit more aggressive with their teasing than ISTps, at least the ESTjs I know are compared to the ISTps I know, so it might be even tricker to get that worked out. And when you're romantically involved, it's a pretty easy discussion to have (maybe loud but easy to get started). It's harder to start that discussion with someone you don't know as well.

I've never felt "ordered around" really by ESTjs but I can see how people could feel that way because they are all business when something needs to happen. The ESTjs I've known, particularly my ESTj ex-boss, are very fair and understanding as co-workers. Like they have things that need to be done, and they explain the situation and what has to happen, but it doesn't really feel like an order to me. Like my ex-boss, I'd say, "This is a problem because . . . " and he'd say, "Well what I need is this, I don't really care about the specifics" and I'd suggest another way it could get done and so long as that didn't cause problems he'd be fine with it. To me an order is when someone wants something done their way and they aren't willing to compromise when the circumstances change or don't work the way they expect. Of course ESTj #3 of yours sounds insecure so I suppose she's probably over-compensating.

Circumstance #1 is something that immature people do when they Find True Love for the first time. Any type can do that, and he will eventually get over it (probably anyway - I know some people who never got over that but most seem to). He sees himself as Enlightened because he has discovered the meaning of life and he sees you as among the unenlightened. It's annoying but hopefully temporary.

That's long and probably not terribly useful. I'd complain to both #2 and #3, personally. Although when you're angry it's hard to be diplomatic so ignoring it might be a good idea until an opportunity to complain constructively comes up. You might just have to wait out #1 for a bit and see how things progress.

[cracka]

I agree with SM about #1. It's happened to me once or twice where I'll meet someone and forget about the rest of the world...lol It's like a kid with a new toy though, they will notice that they still have other things and people to pay attention to. I figure that he will most likely tell his g/f some time in the near future that he really needs a guys night out where she won't bother him and you guys will be back to being best buds again.

With #2 your best bet would be to tell him that you didn't like the way he spoke of you in front of others. Truth is, he probably didn't think it would hurt or anger you as much as it did or he would have most likely not said it at all...if he is indeed someone you get along with well at other times. I've been known to do things like that in the past and have had the nice little chat after of how someone didn't like what i said, I apologized and said it wouldn't happen again. It's like going out of bounds in a sports game and telling your team that it's your bad and you won't do it again, usually making everyone OK with it.

#3, she may be socially ignorant, doesn't know how to deal with people... most likely a bit narcissistic... tell her this and she'll hate you for saying it but later on she'll hopefully notice it in herself and probably tell you she's sorry and that she's working on it.

[meatburger]

Thanks Slacks and Cracks

#1 - Is the only one i care about. I might have to apologise or break the ice but at this point i dont feel like it.

Update - my ISTp friend at work just complained about #3 and then another girl heard about him complaining and joined in. Seems like shes a little stressed / going through a hard time.

[FDG]

#1 should realize that his girlfriend is a demanding bitch and set some boundaries.

[force my hand]

Hehe, this is an amusing thread. I can only think of two ESTjs I've had much contact with recently:

1. An aunt. Ex-vice principal, now a head honcho/distract manager for an entire school system. She loves to take charge and get into people's business, but she's a very matronly figure and a mother to boot. I can handle older women 'bossing' me around. Very easy to take, and we get along fine.

2. A co-worker. I've been in my position near five years now. In my estimation, I kind of know what the hell I'm talking about... to put it dryly, experience and all that. I trained the guy who trained #2, but #2 has taken it into his head that I don't know anything and loves to TRY to boss me around. What's worse is that he'll often ask for my advice on some procedure, and when I confirm it, he'll argue. "Is this the right X?" Yep." "No it isn't!" Uhhh... if you're not going to listen to five years experience, then why the bleep did you just ask? I've openly mocked him which did NOT go down well, but thankfully, my ass is covered. We've kind of reached an uncomfortable truce at the moment... it'll be interesting to see how this work-weekend goes down.

[meatburger]

Yeah, thats my same experience as my #3 forcemyhand. I feel that in my 3 years in my job i have come to have a good knowledge. I am classified as an SME (subject matter expert) so a lot of the other people come and ask me for help. I seem to have the same reaction to #3 ESTj as you i think. Whenever she nit picks on the smallest mistake i feel like telling her big deal. Other people come across her mistakes all the time :wink:

I think as someone else pointed out, ESTj's sometimes dont have any Major blaring faults. POLR big deal??????? lol. When i see him interacting with people i cant really see any weaknesses. On the other hand if he wanted to obliterate my POLR he could quite easily. And that is the type of thinking that has backed me into a corner.

Time heals all wounds tho and the more comfortable someone feels about themselves, the less likely they are to compare themselves to others


BTW im drunk as a skunk right now

[meatburger]

I made friends with them again. ESTj #1 made a big effort to contact me lately so i cant ignore that.

ESTj #2 is all ok now hes comming out drinking on friday

ESTj #3 told me off again. I just started laughing at her on the phone. She ended up sending me emails asking me if i was drunk and we are on better terms now.

Very hard to keep a grudge

[stefana]

I made friends with them again. ESTj #1 made a big effort to contact me lately so i cant ignore that.

ESTj #2 is all ok now hes comming out drinking on friday

ESTj #3 told me off again. I just started laughing at her on the phone. She ended up sending me emails asking me if i was drunk and we are on better terms now.

Very hard to keep a grudge

The meatburger spirit. You never give up.

[Mariano Rajoy]

Very nice thread. Yay for ENFp's, the world is a better place.

[XoX]

I made friends with them again. ESTj #1 made a big effort to contact me lately so i cant ignore that.

ESTj #2 is all ok now hes comming out drinking on friday

ESTj #3 told me off again. I just started laughing at her on the phone. She ended up sending me emails asking me if i was drunk and we are on better terms now.

Very hard to keep a grudge

The meatburger spirit. You never give up.

That is one way to say it The other way is to say that meatie used "creatively" and invented an imaginary problem and later discovered it doesn't exist in reality. He is still popular and everyone still loves him

[stefana]

That is one way to say it The other way is to say that meatie used "creatively" and invented an imaginary problem and later discovered it doesn't exist in reality. He is still popular and everyone still loves him

Hahaha !

[meatburger]

Hehe..

Well XoX you did help me come to terms that the problem was a lot mine with your comment so you did your part

[Slacker]

I'm just glad all is well.

[jewels]

Can this work for dating? What would the good/bad things be?

[meatburger]

Yeah im pretty sure it could work well. Ive never dated an ESTj but ive known quite a few girls and i liked them a lot. My ESTj friend and i have an interesting bond i think. To be honest its a much closer bond most of the time than my duality. We barely ever argue and just enjoy each others company. Whenever he rings im pretty much bound to want to see him no matter how i feel.

Bad things: hmm im not feeling very creative this morning. I think you definately could over activate each other. One other thing ive noticed is we barely ever talk about feelings. Like im talking its happened twice in 20 years. Its happened quite a few more times with ISTp's suprisingly which i think i actually enjoy a little. Not sure if this is normal though

I know its utterly stupid but one reason why i would not want an ESTj is because of all my little INFj friends. I wouldn't want them to pine after her and perhaps even her for them. I have a friend with an ISTp girlfriend who looks at me. Fucked up situation thars why i like duals.

[xyz]

Bad things: hmm im not feeling very creative this morning. I think you definately could over activate each other. One other thing ive noticed is we barely ever talk about feelings. Like im talking its happened twice in 20 years. Its happened quite a few more times with ISTp's suprisingly which i think i actually enjoy a little. Not sure if this is normal though

Feelings?! What the hell are those mate??

[UDP]

I know its utterly stupid but one reason why i would not want an ESTj is because of all my little INFj friends. I wouldn't want them to pine after her and perhaps even her for them. I have a friend with an ISTp girlfriend who looks at me. Fucked up situation thars why i like duals.

It makes sense.

[meatburger]

Feelings?! What the hell are those mate??

I actually have no idea what i meant lol.

It makes sense.

yeah you can actually see how things can turn into a real life soap opera. ENFp and ESTj are dating. ESTj and INFj friend fall head over heels with one another. They start seeing each other. ENFp friendship and relationship shattered.

[xyz]

Yeah im pretty sure it could work well. Ive never dated an ESTj but ive known quite a few girls and i liked them a lot. My ESTj friend and i have an interesting bond i think. To be honest its a much closer bond most of the time than my duality. We barely ever argue and just enjoy each others company. Whenever he rings im pretty much bound to want to see him no matter how i feel.

Bad things: hmm im not feeling very creative this morning. I think you definately could over activate each other. One other thing ive noticed is we barely ever talk about feelings. Like im talking its happened twice in 20 years. Its happened quite a few more times with ISTp's suprisingly which i think i actually enjoy a little. Not sure if this is normal though

I know its utterly stupid but one reason why i would not want an ESTj is because of all my little INFj friends. I wouldn't want them to pine after her and perhaps even her for them. I have a friend with an ISTp girlfriend who looks at me. Fucked up situation thars why i like duals.

Yeah, I'd say go for it if the situation presented itself, jewels.

[jewels]

interesting. I would think the possible problems could be the enfp's sudden career changes, etc.

What I like about estjs is how grounded they are and its easy for them to take care of things and they're on time and reliable. I think they may think I'm a bit frivolous and not on time at times, but all in all I would imagine it could work.

Meatburger, yeah what is it with enfps and drama? I have also thought of similar scenarious, back when I was dating a guy and one of my friends was a compatible type, but it was never a problem. I think there is more to it than type alone, especially since initially, duals can be not attracted.

[meatburger]

In my life Activity partners are probablly the best overall type as friends. There is no one who can stimulate my Ego Functions and bring me out of a funk than an ESTj. Sometimes we wont talk to each other for a few weeks but eventually when we do we both really enjoy it. There is probablly no one i would rather be hanging around (yes including my dual).

In uni once this nice looking red head chick sat next to me. I asked her something and we started talking. Neither of us wanted to stop talking it was so much fun. So we spent like an hour talking in a filled computer room of like 30 people. We walked to lecture together and i could tell we were both thinking "but i dont even know this person lol". Anyway in my end of year exam i look over and about 5 rows across i see her looking over at me. We both just nodded. Its addictive.

Only thing ive noticed about ESTj's is you can damage your relation to them. I bagged one for being christian and thats it we dislike each other now. I snapped at one at work once for asking if i was ok and she never forgave me after that. My good friend is bagging me all the time because i dont enjoy going out anymore. I dont want to go to house parties, i dont want to go out. I can tell its getting to the stage where he will start cutting off his dealings off with me. None of the relations are irrepairable though, they will take some effort.

[Christy B]

In my life Activity partners are probablly the best overall type as friends. There is no one who can stimulate my Ego Functions and bring me out of a funk than an ESTj. Sometimes we wont talk to each other for a few weeks but eventually when we do we both really enjoy it. There is probablly no one i would rather be hanging around (yes including my dual).

In uni once this nice looking red head chick sat next to me. I asked her something and we started talking. Neither of us wanted to stop talking it was so much fun. So we spent like an hour talking in a filled computer room of like 30 people. We walked to lecture together and i could tell we were both thinking "but i dont even know this person lol". Anyway in my end of year exam i look over and about 5 rows across i see her looking over at me. We both just nodded. Its addictive.

Only thing ive noticed about ESTj's is you can damage your relation to them. I bagged one for being christian and thats it we dislike each other now. I snapped at one at work once for asking if i was ok and she never forgave me after that. My good friend is bagging me all the time because i dont enjoy going out anymore. I dont want to go to house parties, i dont want to go out. I can tell its getting to the stage where he will start cutting off his dealings off with me. None of the relations are irrepairable though, they will take some effort.

Cool examples! Thanks!

[UDP]

Only thing ive noticed about ESTj's is you can damage your relation to them. I bagged one for being christian and thats it we dislike each other now. I snapped at one at work once for asking if i was ok and she never forgave me after that. My good friend is bagging me all the time because i dont enjoy going out anymore. I dont want to go to house parties, i dont want to go out. I can tell its getting to the stage where he will start cutting off his dealings off with me. None of the relations are irrepairable though, they will take some effort.

To construct its personal interrelations to representatives of this type is very difficult.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead.php?t=5319

[Christy B]

How can you fix it if you have said or done something wrong to them UDP? Something that upsets them or pushes them away?

[meatburger]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead.php?t=5319

Socionics sometimes amazes me, because thats exactly what i meant. I suppose they are like ISTp's, they are not easy to get close to and thats whats attractive about them to an Fi dominant.

Christy B - Fi of course is the way you do it. You just need to slowly seep it into them over a long period and they will respond.

[Christy B]

Socionics sometimes amazes me

Yeah. Very weird how it is almost always right on.

[Christy B]

Christy B - Fi of course is the way you do it. You just need to slowly seep it into them over a long period and they will respond.

This reminds me of an LSE I have known for many years. I hadn't seen him in a long time and when recently I did he walked up after a while of me being kinda quiet and said "Hi. You know, I used to know you. We used to know each other. . .Remember?"

We used to be pretty close so this was kind-of a funny thing to say. I never felt like we stopped knowing each other even if it had been a while. (His best friend is going to marry one of my best friends and I always hear about him and think about him even if we haven't actually seen or talked to each other.)

I looked at him and said "I still know you." After this it seemed to get a lot better (less awkward). We started talking like old times and it was great. Now that I think about what you said, maybe he really didn't know I was "still" his friend.

[UDP]

How can you fix it if you have said or done something wrong to them UDP? Something that upsets them or pushes them away?

I am not sure, honestly. No one has ever sought to repair a relationship with me, so, I don't know how it works, really.

Socionics sometimes amazes me, because thats exactly what i meant. I suppose they are like ISTp's, they are not easy to get close to and thats whats attractive about them to an Fi dominant.

Christy B - Fi of course is the way you do it. You just need to slowly seep it into them over a long period and they will respond.

Is that really attractive to an Fi dominant?

Your advice seems like it is reasonable.

The worst thing you could do would probably be to go and "pretend" like everything is great, and everything is fine, and we're best friends, and nothing happened. That would seem like you're totally trying to avoid the reality of the situation, and that what happened doesn't matter to you. Don't ever pretend like things are fine, or, alternatively, act like nothing at all happened, for the sake of smooth relations. Acting like nothing is wrong and I'm foolish for being upset will not at all improve things. . I'm not sure which is more frustrating or invigorating in terms of creating an anger and feeling of disrespect or disgust. You must demonstrate that you actually care about the status of our relationship, though being emotionally vibrant will generally lead me to think you're trying manipulate me, so it must be gone about in other, what I would consider "more sincere" methods.

Any manifestation of dishonorableness, dishonesty, meanness, treachery, zhul'nichestva survives very acutely. (Shtirlits in the ethical plan we generally deeply wound. By external severity and by inaccessibility it covers its internal vulnerability.)

If you are making an earnest effort, "slowly seeping it in over time", that would have more value.

[UDP]

This reminds me of an LSE I have known for many years. I hadn't seen him in a long time and when recently I did he walked up after a while of me being kinda quiet and said "Hi. You know, I used to know you. We used to know each other. . .Remember?"

We used to be pretty close so this was kind-of a funny thing to say. I never felt like we stopped knowing each other even if it had been a while. (His best friend is going to marry one of my best friends and I always hear about him and think about him even if we haven't actually seen or talked to each other.)

I looked at him and said "I still know you." After this it seemed to get a lot better (less awkward). We started talking like old times and it was great. Now that I think about what you said, maybe he really didn't know I was "still" his friend.

I've been in that situation before, where I asked people if they still remember me, and was quite awkward before hand.

It is hard enough knowing who is my friend out of the people I talk to on a regular basis. Things change, people change, I don't expect anyone to stay the same or really continue to like me, especially if I am not there interacting with them every day, or doing anything for them.

I have a story which basically exemplifies what you said there. I'll think about how to word it properly, and say it when I get back.

[Christy B]

I've been in that situation before, where I asked people if they still remember me, and was quite awkward before hand.

It is hard enough knowing who is my friend out of the people I talk to on a regular basis. Things change, people change, I don't expect anyone to stay the same or really continue to like me, especially if I am not there interacting with them every day, or doing anything for them.

I have a story which basically exemplifies what you said there. I'll think about how to word it properly, and say it when I get back.

Things change, but YOU are still the same, even if life has affected you. I mean essentially you are always the same. Nothing as weak as time can change that. Nothing at all can change that. Also, I think "liking" you is different than being your friend. Yes certain things can affect if someone "likes" you or not, but if they are your friend, caring about you may be different than liking you superficially. If people don't care about you, but like you for something so superficial that it could change by the next time you see them, then F-them anyway.

[UDP]

Things change, but YOU are still the same, even if life has affected you. I mean essentially you are always the same. Nothing as weak as time can change that. Nothing at all can change that. Also, I think "liking" you is different than being your friend. Yes certain things can affect if someone "likes" you or not, but if they are your friend, caring about you may be different than liking you superficially. If people don't care about you, but like you for something so superficial that it could change by the next time you see them, then F-them anyway.

Well I'm glad you feel confident in saying that at least. I don't feel like I can comment on anything there, other than expressing a sense of doubt or "if you say so", "I guess".

Things change, but YOU are still the same, even if life has affected you. I mean essentially you are always the same. Nothing as weak as time can change that. Nothing at all can change that.

I'd like that to be true, but I really don't know. For me to believe that, it takes a lot of proving I guess. I've seen a lot of people change. I guess there are core things that stay the same but... I guess I'm waiting for someone to show that what you are saying is actually really true.

[meatburger]

I'd like that to be true, but I really don't know. For me to believe that, it takes a lot of proving I guess. I've seen a lot of people change. I guess there are core things that stay the same but... I guess I'm waiting for someone to show that what you are saying is actually really true.

I actually agree 100% with what Christy B said. I can tell that my ESTj friend thinks that perhaps i dont want to see him anymore. Its more complicated than that, he has no time for me as he is a doctor and he spends a lot of time with his girlfriend. Our friendship is basically screwed because he has progressed into a different life stage than me. But i dont like him any less, i never will. The reality is that like Christy, i hold all relationships in my head for basically forever, irrespective of physically seeing someone.

For relationships to not work its not normally a case that the person has changed. If you get on with someone well at some point, im quite convinced that you can get on well with that person again. This is the nature of Fi, People are like butter. If you keep working on them they will almost always soften. So people aren't changing but their perception of your relationship is changing and their life circumstances are changing. Sometimes people decide for whatever reason, consciously or unconsciously that they dont want to try any more.

I feel like i have butchered my thought process here but oh well im posting anyway

[Christy B]

My bestest friend is LSE-Si (Hmm, I think she's already introduced her self here) and I don't know if I can possibly describe our relationship in words, or in anything less than an epic essay!

Essentially, we've been together through the worst, most emotionally destructive and unhealthy periods of our lives and we've both sort of grown into healthy and confident people together. The trajectory of our friendship covers everything significant we've done over the last 7 or 8 years. I don't know if I would have survived the years between 15 and 19 without her. And we've never ever 'fought'. Sure, we sometimes disagree about things, but we just shut up, cool off, and acknowledge the situation. I think being in the same quadra prevents us from misinterpreting each other.

The really critical thing is that as an extravert-activity relationship, we tend to drive each other to exhaustion. We both talk really fast (I also bounce) and we will talk for hours and hours and never stop until we're physically fatigued. We DO A LOT together. More subconsciously than anything, we push each other to do more, to expand our energies. We get a lot done - even if that's just by talking - together. We don't just ever 'enjoy' each other company. We enjoy it en route to some other purpose we're pursuing, even if the purpose is 'getting to the bottom of LSE's feelings for SEI'. So, when we lived together, we really had to have separate rooms that we could just retreat to and recharge.

Oh! You bounce! How cute : )

Actually I am sometimes driven to exhaustion by my activity partner evne though we are introverted because there are so many details to what interests the ISTP, and there are so many details to what interests me, and it can be a lot to try and remember.

I actually just got off the phone with an ISTP-Te. After about thirty minuts of intense conversation we start to wear each other out. It is almost like we start to step on each other's toes. If I stop talking to him before that time I feel like it was a great conversation, and I have a lot to think about later. If we start to bug each other it is sort of frustrating.

[idolatrie]

I'd like that to be true, but I really don't know. For me to believe that, it takes a lot of proving I guess. I've seen a lot of people change. I guess there are core things that stay the same but... I guess I'm waiting for someone to show that what you are saying is actually really true.

word. It's not about questioning the past connection, but rather ensuring that it's still there (not just in my mind)! Kind of a need for reassurance.

In terms of activity partner relationships, I've already talked a little about my relationship with unefille in different threads, so I won't bore you all by going on about it again. But basically, given how long we've known each other, and what we've gone through together, it is easily the most important friendship in my life. I *trust* her implicitly. More than that, I trust her with my emotional life/state. I don't know how to explain the importance of that really, but it is hugely significant. It's not quite like the feeling I get from INFjs, that they just *wouldn't* flake out on me emotionally because it is not something they do, but that I actually believe she would choose not to do that. I trust her to help me figure out my emotions and what I should do. So in case I haven't used the word enough, I guess trust is what is so important, and that she has strenghts in areas that I need help. And that I understand that help - it is something I can easily assimilate into my worldview.

I'll ditto the driving each other to exhaustion. We just start talking and don't stop. Our record would have to be, what, 13 hours straight when on a plane (seats were too uncomfortable to sleep in), and our tendency to just stay up talking even though we know we should be going to bed already. We feed each other's fears though, I think, like when things go wrong we'll unconsciously stoke each other's panic until it spirals up and up. The upside of that kind of drive is that we do push each other to get involved and achieve things we probably wouldn't do independently.

In terms of other ENFps I know, there's just such a wonderful ease of connection there. Interaction never feels forced, or like I have to make this great effort where I'm struggling to judge what is going on. Like, I was walking in the city when I bumped into an ENFp I know reasonably well (we're involved in the same extracurricular activity). We were walking the same way so for a few blocks we just chatted about his classes, my classes, what we were going to, and then split ways. And it was just so *easy* being around him, there were no conversational missteps and no need to overthink our interaction, which lifted my mood.

So I guess for me the activity relationship is quite stimulating and just really really comfortable.

[snegledmaca]

Hmm, could you people tell me if this is a description of an activity relation between an IEE and a LSE? I'm pretty confident one of the people involved is IEE.

People often pair us together. Like, they know him, and they meet me, and the go, "figures he would have such a friend" and vice versa with people I know. We are both universally considered as weird, unorthodox, strange and so on. Quite alike. And to be honest, it completely feels this way. It's like, I can read his mind and finish his sentences and vice versa. We think alike. But at the same time slightly different. And because of this we can get into lengthy discussions on things. These tend to follow a certain pattern. We start off disagreeing. Come from opposing sides, views, ways of doing things. And then through discussion we find points of similarity and at the end realize that we are talking about the same things just from different perspectives. And through our realization we enrich our understanding and conception of whatever we were talking about. And then we just continue off in unknown directions, randomly jumping from topic to topic depending on our train of through at the time, having various realizations, insights, epiphanies and so on. And this can last for hours. Normally the only thing that stops us is that we get physically exhausted. Like literally we are barely staying awake from spending the last 12 hours engaged in a non stop discussion. Eventually we simply have to separate as it gets too much and you have to rest. But we haven't really had one of these in a while. There are no favorable conditions. Before he lived like 200 meters from me. We could stay at his place all night and work on stuff, play games and so on with no problems as it would be empty on a regular basis. Now, we moved to another city and there is no place to do that anymore. The conditions are missing.

[meatburger]

I wonder if ESTjs and ISTps are afraid of trusting in someone completely. Is that even possible? if so, how long does it take? years?

I fucked up with my friend (sli) today. I said i would be late comming to his house but i left it just that little too late and he smsed and cancelled it. Not answering his phone. He invited people over but not many came. One of his particular problems is he doesn't realise who are his real friends, and gets upset when he invites people who dont like him and they dont come. Anyway, theres repecussions of not attending for sure. That extra bit of anger and mistrust has just built inside him.

Hmm, could you people tell me if this is a description of an activity relation between an IEE and a LSE? I'm pretty confident one of the people involved is IEE.

Yeah i dont see why not. It does play out a great deal like an activity relation. I dont see any particular reason why it couldn't be another activity relation tho? I dont think i or any LSE's ive known are considered universally weird though. I can resonate with "we start off disagreeing" a lot of the time, that often seems to happen with mirrors a lot with me too. Although as activity i must admit we tend to always agree at the end. When i was younger the relations were perhaps extreme like that (hours) but now im a bit older unfortunately its not like that.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I fucked up with my friend (sli) today. I said i would be late comming to his house but i left it just that little too late and he smsed and cancelled it. Not answering his phone. He invited people over but not many came. One of his particular problems is he doesn't realise who are his real friends, and gets upset when he invites people who dont like him and they dont come. Anyway, theres repecussions of not attending for sure. That extra bit of anger and mistrust has just built inside him.

If he's got annoyed it must be a regular occurance. It's not like an ISTp to be that obssesed with time, unless your really taking the biscuit

Yeah i dont see why not. It does play out a great deal like an activity relation. I dont see any particular reason why it couldn't be another activity relation tho? I dont think i or any LSE's ive known are considered universally weird though. I can resonate with "we start off disagreeing" a lot of the time, that often seems to happen with mirrors a lot with me too. Although as activity i must admit we tend to always agree at the end. When i was younger the relations were perhaps extreme like that (hours) but now im a bit older unfortunately its not like that.

Interesting. I can't recall every disagreeing with an activity partner, but I have disagreed with a mirror on occasion. Are you sure your typing these guys correctly?