i was wondering whicht type i am?

[normal]

so... joy thinks im ESFp. But, everyone else??

I think its hard to type you ESFp with the problems your having as an individual, typing you ESFp isn't going to help you notice your problems or apparent strengths you have (which is why I assume you are looking all this stuff up). However ESFp does make sense provided the backwards rationale that was provided for it, but it doesn't truely strike at the heart of your personality I think, and in such is a less than perfect assesment.

and, what do you think its my type? need more info? its ok the info that a gave you about my extrovertion?

[Joy]

so... joy thinks im ESFp. But, everyone else??

I think its hard to type you ESFp with the problems your having as an individual, typing you ESFp isn't going to help you notice your problems or apparent strengths you have (which is why I assume you are looking all this stuff up). However ESFp does make sense provided the backwards rationale that was provided for it, but it doesn't truely strike at the heart of your personality I think, and in such is a less than perfect assesment.

ESFps don't get depressed and don't have worthwhile strengths? And the "backwards rationale" as you call it is about the best we can do with what we've got at this point, imo. If you think you can read between the lines through what normal has written (in a language that is not his first language), so much so that you feel you can get enough of an idea of his personality to be able to disregard the things he's told us about himself, feel free. And if you think that you can type somebody based on how they behave when they're depressed, go for it.

[Creepy-male]

so... joy thinks im ESFp. But, everyone else??

I think its hard to type you ESFp with the problems your having as an individual, typing you ESFp isn't going to help you notice your problems or apparent strengths you have (which is why I assume you are looking all this stuff up). However ESFp does make sense provided the backwards rationale that was provided for it, but it doesn't truely strike at the heart of your personality I think, and in such is a less than perfect assesment.

and, what do you think its my type? need more info? its ok the info that a gave you about my extrovertion?

Well I'd need to look into it more, my attentions been divided but I'd really have to concentrate on all this, so I am sorry I didn't get back to you. For now I am not going to make a hasteful judgement, but this is me personally.

I think its bad to be hasteful about this since most people use these to find stuff out about themselves and take notice of the characteristics and temparment of people. If you guess and check long enough your sure to strike a match, but you still won't learn anything from it.

[FDG]

This doesn't exactly sound like the presentation an ESFp would make of him/itself on any forum. Obviously every ESFp has problems but the way you describe yourself makes me completely tend towards negativism over positivism.

[implied]

i think introvert at the least. ISFj?


also: hola soy hispanohablante tambien pero de espanya el pais de los pijos y esnobs.

[FDG]

i think introvert at the least. ISFj?


also: hola soy hispanohablante tambien pero de espanya el pais de los pijos y esnobs.

My first thought was ISFj.

[Creepy-male]

so... joy thinks im ESFp. But, everyone else??

I think its hard to type you ESFp with the problems your having as an individual, typing you ESFp isn't going to help you notice your problems or apparent strengths you have (which is why I assume you are looking all this stuff up). However ESFp does make sense provided the backwards rationale that was provided for it, but it doesn't truely strike at the heart of your personality I think, and in such is a less than perfect assesment.

ESFps don't get depressed and don't have worthwhile strengths? And the "backwards rationale" as you call it is about the best we can do with what we've got at this point, imo. If you think you can read between the lines through what normal has written (in a language that is not his first language), so much so that you feel you can get enough of an idea of his personality to be able to disregard the things he's told us about himself, feel free. And if you think that you can type somebody based on how they behave when they're depressed, go for it.

Ok purely off of what the model tells us......

would be external feeling, would be internal feeling. The concept would be as follows......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> after getting yelled at by their friend, they realized that their friend was angry and that they suddenly became angry at their friend for being so mean.

-> after getting yelled at by their friend, they realized their friend was experiencing anger in his life and that this anger lead him to act in a cruel and malicious way towards others. Since cruelity is bad, they feel their friend has made a bad decision by resorting to anger.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

with that it can be understood, that a persons identity would be an issue, their view of the ethics of the world would be , their view of others would be

while a person's feelings they experience about themself would be , a person's feelings about how other people treat them would be , a person's feelings about an experience would be

So I'd say the feeling bad/low/lonely/depressed aspect of the person is
While the feeling of "Who am I" would be

So with that said lets consider the model

If indeed he was a ESFp that'd imply that is in the ego block. The ego block is extremely concious and confident. The person doesn't sound confident about who they are.

Instead the person sounds like they are wishing to improve this understanding of -- cheifly sounding like the id block.

...I will really appreciate your words because i dont know where to start feeling ok with myself.

FOR EXAMPLE

Also in addition the person claims to be uncomfortable with sharing feelings, like how they feel about things, and has trouble with it. This would be and cheifly sounds to be in the super-ego block.

...on emotion and finally i can't express my feelings, getting extremely introverted....

...I usually don't like talk about emotion....

...get too emotional (i dont like express my anger o sadness)...

FOR EXAMPLE

So with this it seems to me theoretically this illustrates the INTj or ENTp -- this doesn't nessicarily match the posts made or the activities he engages in though. But on the level of personal understanding and report it matches. Personal understanding and report is of course more important than the activites themselves; for example... any type could do X activity, but each of them performs it differently.


This is what I am "reading between the lines"

I think its backwards rationale because it makes sense and is reasoned but doesn't really strike at the heart of the matter. Its like a person trying to explain why they are really helping the world by murdering people, using darwin and the idea of population checks. This is a backwards rationale since it explains it effectively but doesn't strike at the "heart" of the idea correctly.

Also I didn't say any of those things about ESFp's -- I just said the ESFp doesn't describe his traits effectively enough in my opinion, the ESFp is a master at understanding themselves ( creative) and others and from that determining who fits in which groups ( application). This is why they are called the politician and why they are excellent in social situations.

Hope this explains it, if not please respond

[FDG]

Maybe HaveLucidDreamz you're right, but IME, none of the ESFps I know like to "talk" about their feelings, and none of the ISFjs either. Usually, though, ENFjs and INFps are the best at it.

In any case, I might be misunderstanding what you mean, so if I am, correct me.

[Creepy-male]

Maybe HaveLucidDreamz you're right, but IME, none of the ESFps I know like to "talk" about their feelings, and none of the ISFjs either. Usually, though, ENFjs and INFps are the best at it.

In any case, I might be misunderstanding what you mean, so if I am, correct me.

hmm well I think ESFp's and ISFj's would not like to talk about their so much as their feelings..... in which their would unconciously come out

this is what I meant

I can envision ESFp's and ISFj's having no reservations about sharing their feelings about ethical, spiritual, or people based issues. But saying something like "I feel lonely, sad, or even trying to emote these things across seem secondary to simply explaining about who you are and acting like that".

[normal]

ISFj sounds very weird on Chile. People tend to be more dominant and even aggresive. I feel a little touched with ISFj description because i really dont like fights. I like competition, but not serious fight between guys i know or against my fathers. I fough iwh my fathers many times before, just because depression or simply because i dont like feel like a 'peon' and follow the order. but, with my friends i was totally different, submisse and always alert against any sign of conflict. I tend to be the joke of mine friends ending very annoying but at least, not very complex.
i could resist that freaking jokes of my friend, stupid proposition of love, do things that i deeply dont like, but i did because the people around me trust in me.

Right now, i dont know if its different. I think im more analitical, overly detail-oriented when i feel stress. Normaly im a relaxed person, who likes people (not too much), computers, jokes, foreign lenguage (jeje), dreaming when im alone. People still trust in me, and i dont mind make them pleasure, its just that right now im more sensitive about others people emotion, manipulation and stuff like that.

Saludos implied. Me encanta tu pais y espero algún día ir a conocerlo y enfrentar el terrible calor que debe hacer ahí en verano, comiendo naranjas y disfrutando (y espero estar ahí) del mediterraneo, donde algúna vez anibal creo cartagena. No sé donde realmente vives, pero me gusta mucho esa parte multicultural de España. =)

[Joy]

This doesn't exactly sound like the presentation an ESFp would make of him/itself on any forum. Obviously every ESFp has problems but the way you describe yourself makes me completely tend towards negativism over positivism.

I see positivism in the tone... and EP... but like I said before, English isn't his first language so who knows if we're reading the tone properly.

[Joy]

Implied is fluent in Spanish. Maybe if you talk to her a little bit she can help give us an idea of your tone, etc.

[normal]

ok, ill try. i did a post on her last.fm web. I hope she can help ^^.

About my english, i know its not the best english. I use to learn word about five because of video-game. My grade in school wasn't really bad but, we usually dont talk and make works with the lenguage.
I can understand what you write, the meaning of many word but my problem is write a text. I can speak well, but i have always forget how to use some words in the proper way.
About the positivism. I read my first post presentation and sounds really weird and depressed. My presentation isnt negative at all. its really on the other way, not negative but positive.

[science as magic]

chile!

maybe isfp?

puedo hablar un pocito espanol tambien pero puedo entender mas de lo que puedo hablar. algunos de mis parientes eran de guatemala

[Joy]

HaveLucidDreamz, INTjs and ENTps do not have Fe in their superego block.

I like competition, but not serious fight between guys i know or against my fathers. I fough iwh my fathers many times before, just because depression or simply because i dont like feel like a 'peon' and follow the order. but, with my friends i was totally different, submisse and always alert against any sign of conflict. I tend to be the joke of mine friends ending very annoying but at least, not very complex.
i could resist that freaking jokes of my friend, stupid proposition of love, do things that i deeply dont like, but i did because the people around me trust in me.

This sounds ESFp to me, if I'm understanding it correctly.

The stuff about not wanting conflict between friends (does the conflict threaten relationships or does it threaten the atmosphere?) and the stuff he wrong about what he's like when he's too stressed out don't seem to contradict ESFp to me.

It seems like people are using the information normal gives about himself when he's not well and trying to apply it to typing and as a result ending up with something introverted/IxFp.

[Creepy-male]

HaveLucidDreamz, INTjs and ENTps do not have Fe in their superego block.

I like competition, but not serious fight between guys i know or against my fathers. I fough iwh my fathers many times before, just because depression or simply because i dont like feel like a 'peon' and follow the order. but, with my friends i was totally different, submisse and always alert against any sign of conflict. I tend to be the joke of mine friends ending very annoying but at least, not very complex.
i could resist that freaking jokes of my friend, stupid proposition of love, do things that i deeply dont like, but i did because the people around me trust in me.

This sounds ESFp to me, if I'm understanding it correctly.

The stuff about not wanting conflict between friends (does the conflict threaten relationships or does it threaten the atmosphere?) and the stuff he wrong about what he's like when he's too stressed out don't seem to contradict ESFp to me.

It seems like people are using the information normal gives about himself when he's not well and trying to apply it to typing and as a result ending up with something introverted/IxFp.

alright perhaps what I meant was ENTj and INTp, I just derived it out wrong.

or possibly I mixed it up, but my rationale is very tight theoretically and it all matches up.....

anyways this may clash with you, since my view is people change personality over time to adapt, I disagree with Jung and other people who think that its set from birth. I agree a person starts with a particular temparment, but I believe it can change as circumstances change.

In the case of introversion, sometimes people change towards introversion for adaptive reasons. Other times people change towards extroversion for adaptive reasons.

Lets say you get thrown into prison and are put into deep isolation, this I could see would make a person more introverted. However lets consider you get thrown in prison and you see gang to gang violence, in this case you may adapt to be more extroverted and learn to work with people and join groups in order to survive. These aren't really day to day circumstances, but its an effective illustration of how people would shift in order to adapt.

[Joy]

anyways this may clash with you, since my view is people change personality over time to adapt, I disagree with Jung and other people who think that its set from birth. I agree a person starts with a particular temparment, but I believe it can change as circumstances change.

theoretically...

Personality? Yes. Socionics type? No. They're two entirely different things.

In the case of introversion, sometimes people change towards introversion for adaptive reasons. Other times people change towards extroversion for adaptive reasons.

We call it "subtypes".

Lets say you get thrown into prison and are put into deep isolation, this I could see would make a person more introverted. However lets consider you get thrown in prison and you see gang to gang violence, in this case you may adapt to be more extroverted and learn to work with people and join groups in order to survive. These aren't really day to day circumstances, but its an effective illustration of how people would shift in order to adapt.

I've just decided that you're ESFj.

[FDG]

This doesn't exactly sound like the presentation an ESFp would make of him/itself on any forum. Obviously every ESFp has problems but the way you describe yourself makes me completely tend towards negativism over positivism.

I see positivism in the tone... and EP... but like I said before, English isn't his first language so who knows if we're reading the tone properly.

Joy, please. Where, where do you see positivism? Maybe EP, okay.

[Gilly]

ENFp.

[Creepy-male]

anyways this may clash with you, since my view is people change personality over time to adapt, I disagree with Jung and other people who think that its set from birth. I agree a person starts with a particular temparment, but I believe it can change as circumstances change.

theoretically...

Personality? Yes. Socionics type? No. They're two entirely different things.

In the case of introversion, sometimes people change towards introversion for adaptive reasons. Other times people change towards extroversion for adaptive reasons.

We call it "subtypes".

Lets say you get thrown into prison and are put into deep isolation, this I could see would make a person more introverted. However lets consider you get thrown in prison and you see gang to gang violence, in this case you may adapt to be more extroverted and learn to work with people and join groups in order to survive. These aren't really day to day circumstances, but its an effective illustration of how people would shift in order to adapt.

I've just decided that you're ESFj.

Whoa, first off -- I disagree about socionics types, please provide your rationale... there is none, jung or some person told you this and you beliefed it, I think its ludacris.

ok "subtypes"??? I don't have any idea of what that means, I just said what made sense to me

Any type can give an example, what first popped into my head was prison, because I ran across a guy who had been to prison (very scary guy actually) but he said prison is being inside your head for the entire day.... it sounded INxx I thought. In another instance my friend was talking about the movie twelve monkeys and he indicated the person was in prison and he had like INxx type stuff going on and what not. But because of this my mind intuitively was drawn towards this as an example.

[normal]

i read ISFj threat and sounds more like me than ESFp. ESFp sounds more egoccentric or somethings like "getting more attention and people to be happy". And i dont mind being the center, but its not my basic goal.

But, fit me as a ISFj type, there's one things i dont care... and its to be alone. I dont mind being alone... i thinks im always alone, but thats doesnt mean that i dont have friends or pals. I very opne with my circle of friend, but around stranger im another person who likes listen (like the description on the web). There are many things i that fits me wih ISFj. About dont express emotion, open around friends, knowing how i feel and i dont look into the eye's person when i talk.
But, i dont mind being alone... i can found people, to talk, but not about my insecurities, just about jokes and fun.
Maybe, i can't see the point about being alone (because i know that i have some people behind me).
So... i still dont know exactly, but ISFj sounds somehow like me.

[Joy]

welcome

[Creepy-male]

i read ISFj threat and sounds more like me than ESFp. ESFp sounds more egoccentric or somethings like "getting more attention and people to be happy". And i dont mind being the center, but its not my basic goal.

But, fit me as a ISFj type, there's one things i dont care... and its to be alone. I dont mind being alone... i thinks im always alone, but thats doesnt mean that i dont have friends or pals. I very opne with my circle of friend, but around stranger im another person who likes listen (like the description on the web). There are many things i that fits me wih ISFj. About dont express emotion, open around friends, knowing how i feel and i dont look into the eye's person when i talk.
But, i dont mind being alone... i can found people, to talk, but not about my insecurities, just about jokes and fun.
Maybe, i can't see the point about being alone (because i know that i have some people behind me).
So... i still dont know exactly, but ISFj sounds somehow like me.

Well at least from my MBTI knowledge, ISFj's tend to be very oriented towards people, and see their role as being dependable. Not dependable in a business like way, but more so in a feeling way. They are dependable by being of service to others. The ISFj's tend to value service to organizations they support, whether they be family or government for example.

[normal]

i read ISFj threat and sounds more like me than ESFp. ESFp sounds more egoccentric or somethings like "getting more attention and people to be happy". And i dont mind being the center, but its not my basic goal.

But, fit me as a ISFj type, there's one things i dont care... and its to be alone. I dont mind being alone... i thinks im always alone, but thats doesnt mean that i dont have friends or pals. I very opne with my circle of friend, but around stranger im another person who likes listen (like the description on the web). There are many things i that fits me wih ISFj. About dont express emotion, open around friends, knowing how i feel and i dont look into the eye's person when i talk.
But, i dont mind being alone... i can found people, to talk, but not about my insecurities, just about jokes and fun.
Maybe, i can't see the point about being alone (because i know that i have some people behind me).
So... i still dont know exactly, but ISFj sounds somehow like me.

Well at least from my MBTI knowledge, ISFj's tend to be very oriented towards people, and see their role as being dependable. Not dependable in a business like way, but more so in a feeling way. They are dependable by being of service to others. The ISFj's tend to value service to organizations they support, whether they be family or government for example.

And what its the difference about MBTI's ISFj and the SOCIONIC's ISFj?

[Joy]

MBTI's descriptions are a bit generic and often not as specific as Socionics descriptions, and many times MBTI descriptions are just simply inaccurate about Socionics types. Also, an MBTI ISFJ's main functions are Si and Fe, while a Socionic's ISFj's functions are Fi and Se.

MBTI is pretty much totally irrelevant to any forum on this site besides Anything Goes, but there are a lot of newcomers who don't quite seem to understand that yet.

[Creepy-male]

MBTI's descriptions are a bit generic and often not as specific as Socionics descriptions, and many times MBTI descriptions are just simply inaccurate about Socionics types. Also, an MBTI ISFJ's main functions are Si and Fe, while a Socionic's ISFj's functions are Fi and Se.

MBTI is pretty much totally irrelevant to any forum on this site besides Anything Goes, but there are a lot of newcomers who don't quite seem to understand that yet.

This is a matter of personal opinion I believe, I think that their are similiarities, just as of course their are divergences from MBTI.

To say they share nothing in common is downright illogical, because for one they are both concerned with Jung's writtings - at least that is one thing, hence disproving your idea about the "irrelevance" of MBTI.

Also you really can't say MBTI is Si and Fe and Socionics Fi and Se, because socionics has a different model for which the functions fit in than MBTI. MBTI rates primary, secondary, teriary, etc for the functions, socionics has a psyche model. These are two seperate ways of looking what roles the functions play. So you really can't say their different.... if a person is looking upside down objects appear upside down, but if a person is looking right side up objects appear right side up, its all relative. MBTI is one viewpoint concerning the functions, Socionics another, but they both concern the functions.

[normal]

some pictures.


a year before

2 year before

August-September

[Creepy-male]

I am curious, how do you approach work, what is meaningful to you, how do you switch between being alone, inside, and introverted to being around people and lively.....

[FDG]

You look ESFp to me, normal

[normal]

I am curious, how do you approach work, what is meaningful to you, how do you switch between being alone, inside, and introverted to being around people and lively.....

about work, i like the practical works and, obviously works that i like, that they have a personal reason (for example, because my parents like it, etc). I consider myself to be moderately responsible. In works of studies im not totally responsible but in important things, yes i am punctual and responsible and detest to come slowed down (exams for example). I like work with people, but actually im studying to be a programmer so i dont thinks i going to work with people. I dont mind work alone, but i like work with people.
Now, i never worked with money within. Only with parents, people i like or something like that. Money its not important for me but necessary.

Meaningful. The most important thing for me, it is to have a harmony with all. That there are no conflicts and that simultaneously, constant. I believe that always i have worried in supporting the harmony and i think that i have got into problems often when I see that this harmony that I have with the people sees affected.
Intellect, not.
I dont work, either. (im not looking for a job now, its not important)
Amusement, yes. I believe that partly i me like to entertain, but I like to do it without so much work of for way.
To be important, i dont thinks so. What i truly think is that i dont like the rejection, for the same thing that I believe in the harmony.

About of being alone. I believe that its simple and i learned it here (i dont know where).
I like to be with persons known. Before foreign persons i prove to be quiet and observant. And then, i analyze if I get into the new group or not. I dont walk looking friends in the life, only that quite the friends who i know have somehow of relation with this 'harmony'. In fact, when knew people across my life, and i had to see them for the street, i avoid them. Always i avoid unnecessary intereaction.

Another thing that i wanted to say about to the people, is that i dont like to be a lot of time with a person, maybe because i don like to show myself, well, i dont know, but its true about that i dont like. I thinks that 2 days with the same person, he/she bores me. I like to meet with different persons that i love and know. I consider myself of these persons who have few friends but knows them well, but know different people(many people) that not know well.

improving my english a little (and using some translator for some words)
greetings!

[Joy]

normal, have you seen this? http://socioniko.net/es/index.html

I think I'm still leaning towards ESFp, ethical subtype. Question though... when you talk about "harmony", are you referring to a general emotional harmony in the atmosphere or are you talking about harmony in your specific relationships with individuals?

[Gilly]

SEI, sensory subtype.

[Joy]

MBTI's descriptions are a bit generic and often not as specific as Socionics descriptions, and many times MBTI descriptions are just simply inaccurate about Socionics types. Also, an MBTI ISFJ's main functions are Si and Fe, while a Socionic's ISFj's functions are Fi and Se.

MBTI is pretty much totally irrelevant to any forum on this site besides Anything Goes, but there are a lot of newcomers who don't quite seem to understand that yet.

This is a matter of personal opinion I believe, I think that their are similiarities, just as of course their are divergences from MBTI.

To say they share nothing in common is downright illogical, because for one they are both concerned with Jung's writtings - at least that is one thing, hence disproving your idea about the "irrelevance" of MBTI.

MBTI and Socionics are both born of Jung's writings, but Socionics also incorporates information elements. It could be sorta like comparing Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim... all came from the same original source but are very different things.

Also you really can't say MBTI is Si and Fe and Socionics Fi and Se, because socionics has a different model for which the functions fit in than MBTI. MBTI rates primary, secondary, teriary, etc for the functions, socionics has a psyche model. These are two seperate ways of looking what roles the functions play. So you really can't say their different.... if a person is looking upside down objects appear upside down, but if a person is looking right side up objects appear right side up, its all relative. MBTI is one viewpoint concerning the functions, Socionics another, but they both concern the functions.

I don't know enough about MBTI to speak intelligently on how it uses functions. All I know is that according to what I've read about Socionics, Socionics and MBTI introverts differ in this regard. FiNe is an INFj in Socionics but an INFP in MBTI. NeFi is ENFp in both Socionics and MBTI.

[Joy]

SEI, sensory subtype.

Could be, depending on the answer to the question about harmony. (SEI is ISFp, normal)

[Gilly]

I have very little doubt. VI works perfectly, and both his gaze and facial structure are remarkably similar to two Si dominants that I know.

[normal]

normal, have you seen this? http://socioniko.net/es/index.html

I think I'm still leaning towards ESFp, ethical subtype. Question though... when you talk about "harmony", are you referring to a general emotional harmony in the atmosphere or are you talking about harmony in your specific relationships with individuals?

more harmony with people, not only atmosphere. :wink:

EDIT:::
And yes, i have read many page about socionics --even the 16types info page.

[Gilly]

I still say SEI. Given the answer, I think that the question does not adequately differentiate what is being examined.

[implied]

looking @ the pics, i thought ISFp, IST(?)p (totally throwing guesses out there @ this point,) with maybe ISFj as a totally last resort sort of thing.

but dominant, IXXp temperament.

[Creepy-male]

I have very little doubt. VI works perfectly, and both his gaze and facial structure are remarkably similar to two Si dominants that I know.

Actually I currently got ISFp vibes from those pictures, I am not a good VI specialist or anything, but I'd agree with Gilligan. I am asking for extra information because I personally don't trust VI without it being used in combination with behavior.

[Joy]

oh nm

If you want to continue to refer to MBTI descriptions instead of Socionics descriptions in conversations with newcomers who are looking for their Socionics type on a Socionics site, knock yourself out.