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Thread: Two subtypes of SLEs-ESTps: which one are you?

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    Default Two subtypes of SLEs-ESTps: which one are you?

    ESTP:

    COORDINATOR (Se subtype, Se-ESTp)

    Description by Meged & Ovcharov:

    Appearance


    Seems clever, impulsive, seemingly concealing within him a latent threat. Far from being easygoing and appeasable. In reality, he can be sharp, sufficiently aggressive, and persistent. Can hold a grudge and be sufficiently resourceful to make the life of his ill-wishers become intolerable. Has a contrasting and unpredictable character. With those whom he loves can be kind, tender, even sentimental. Possesses a sense of humor, that easily molds into sarcasm and caustic irony. Talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp. Likes epithets and slang expressions. His movements are springy and fast. Gait is somewhat waddling, with knees slightly bent, which yields a stealthy feline semblance. Has a characteristic evaluating gaze with slight squint. Usually looks after his health, periodically takes up physical sport, exercise of gymnastics. Dresses expensively and with taste. Most often he makes a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.

    Character

    Insistent, energetic, resolute person. While trying to achieve his goals, he acts both directly and through intermediaries. As a rule, he is capable of becoming the winner. Knows how to manage people, can impose on them his wishes and will, to involve and draw them in by useful and interesting projects and tasks. Knows how to be liked and how to please others: charming, possesses a sense of humor, a good conversationalist. Natural leader: needs competition, struggle, passion, victory, without these his vitality wanes. Boredom is his first enemy. An absence of decent employment and application of his abilities makes him quite a difficult partner.

    He is oriented at achieving major concrete goals, but often runs into difficulty when trying to choose them. It takes time for him to get going, he doubts, thinks things over again. But once he makes a choice, he acts swiftly, amping up his pace and not resting until he has realized the conceived. A very resourceful and flexible tactician. Active and operative, in periods of elation his capacity for work is very high. Doesn't like unasked for advice, prefers to make decisions independently. Can hear out his conversation partner, but leave the last word to himself. Doesn't tolerate commanding tone in others. If someone tries to pressure him, he resolutely counters it. In the interest of his business, shows diplomatic abilities, be considerate and courteous.

    Dislikes it very much when others show initiative that seems to be out of place, for example, try to impose something or hurry others - in this case, can do the opposite. Very self-loving and easily offended, but tries to hide it, considering this to be his weakness. Doesn't forgive tactlessness and injustice towards himself. This can provoke a flash of aggression in him.

    Insightful, witty, has a critical turn of mind. When angry shows intolerance towards other people's shortcomings. Knows how to give a brief and succinct description of a person, to ridicule him in presence of strangers, to put him on the spot. Actively asserts his interests, and those of his loved ones. Can create an unfavorable environment for disagreeable people, but for those whom he loves, he tries to provide the necessary comfort, showing care and attention.

    Feels proud of his successes and seeks high valuation of himself. Has a tendency to overestimate his abilities, which leads to arrogance and a wish to teach others. Self-instilled confidence in his own rightness and insufficient self-criticism do not simplify his relations with others. Respects people who are influential and authoritative. Lenient and forgiving towards those who are compliant, soft and vulnerable, in need of help, especially towards children. Often provides them his protection and support. Nonetheless, he is strict, even harsh both at home and at work.

    Very stubborn and demanding. In personal relationships with difficulty adjusts to his partner, as he is rather uncompromising. Using willpower, can make himself subdue feelings to reason. Proud and independent. It is often unpredictable in his actions, depends on the changes in his mood. Changes his interests and his hobbies often, but his affection tries to keep for a long time. Cherishes old friendships, although he usually doesn't show sentimentality in his relationships.

    Strives towards high material level of life. Has a good aesthetic taste, gourmand, cannot deny himself that which gives him pleasure. Bold in sex, but mistrustful of love, afraid of being deceived in his hopes or to get lost in wishful thinking. Quickly grows tired of monotony: he is attracted by psychological games with a partner, when hope interchanges with doubt - in this lies an element of excitement for him.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behavior. Can be expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergency and crisis situations, abruptly joins into conflicts, can apply pressure in order to create order. If he finds himself unoccupied by anything, can even provoke a conflict, so that later he can take initiative into his own hands. Emotional and sociable, with his attention won't pass by a single person of the opposite sex. Women of this type also take initiative in getting to know potential partners. Usually muscular, active and mobile, somewhat thin. Has a well developed taste, a gourmand. In fashion drawn to exquisiteness and prestige.



    ORGANIZER (Ti subtype, Ti-ESTp)

    Description by Meged & Ovcharov:

    Appearance

    Leaves an impression of calm strength and self-assurance. Rational and consistent in his affairs. Hardworking and enduring. Usually he is cold-blooded, restrained, collected and unfazed, but in moments of irritation does not conceal his anger, which shows in his look and in sudden categorical gestures. When he is calm, he is polite and courteous, tough keeps his conversation partners at a distance. His humor is blunt and can be somewhat crude. Sometimes he has a fast moving, distrustful look that looks from under his eyebrows. Appearance is usually serious, somewhat guarded and alert. Gait and gestures are harmonious, flowing, and precise. Dresses somewhat monotonously, and strictly, although at times surprisingly brightly and extravagantly. Values quality in clothing, occasionally putting together sets from only a few items. In most cases has a tendency to not stand out. This applies both to how he behaves and how he dresses. Seems cold and inaccessible, even though he tries to be appropriate, even-tempered and well-wishing towards others. Holds himself with dignity.

    Character

    Balanced and self-controlled. Tries not to lose his composure under any circumstances. Restrained and appropriate in his statements, but at times can flare up. Feels very upset when he has lost his temper in front of other people. Authoritative and serious, has a well-developed sense of self-worth. Prefers to talk about that in which he considers himself competent. Relies on official and trusted source of information. Distrustful of new theories, hypotheses, and assumptions that haven't been tested in practice. Skeptical of the occult and the esoteric.

    This is a person of action and not reflection. When the time comes to react, he orients quickly in the changing circumstances, boldly takes risks, carefully weighting all chances and not losing his interests from sight. Enthusiastically takes up new tasks, projects, or business. Interested in laws and instructions. Can maintain good documentation. If he is asked for advice or a consultation, delves into the details of the issue and gives concrete advice. Predisposes other people towards himself by giving them his attention and providing his services.

    Mobilizes beforehand to overcome obstacles, calculating ahead of time all the risks of current situation. Always has a good sense of the real situation, and knows how to extract benefit from it. Knows how to properly arrange people to carry out a job or assignment. Well perceptive of other people's business acumen and capabilities. However, finds it difficult to evaluate more distant prospects of projects and relationships.

    Grows bored if he doesn't find an application to his abilities, or if he has to finish something he's lost an interest in or that which has no practical interest for him. Only new experiences and impressions and frequent changes in activity raise his vitality.

    Rationalistic, pragmatic, and hard working. Very logical and practical in his activities and in business. Punctual, responsible, demanding of himself and expects the same from others. Looks to quality in everything. Unforgiving of simulation and negligence. Evaluates efficacy not by the efforts expended but by the final outcome. Likes to act boldly, takes big risks, but prepares for it thoroughly and in detail.

    Discerning and sensible, speaks with a confident tone, tries to convince by facts. Very practical, dislikes theories and pointless activities. In contact with strangers via indirect questions assesses their position in society, connections and capabilities. Looks for common ground and ways in which it is possible to come together to solve common business interests. Undemonstrative, but when a chance presents itself likes to emphasize his achievements. Proud, if he has achieved everything in his life by his own effort.

    Authoritarian and possesses a strong will, but, if needed, can demonstrate flexibility in communication, even make temporary concessions for the sake of reaching his ultimate goal. Understands the importance of material and financial incentives, knows how to use them, without losing his own benefit. Shows a friendly, well-wishing attitude towards others, but in work and business requires unity and unanimity.

    Considers restraint in expressing feelings to be a guarantee of their seriousness and reliability. Proud, doesn't impose his company, doesn't know how to entertain guests. Rarely makes compliments even towards women. Lives by his mind and puts business above personal sympathies, due to which may unwittingly offend other people, himself not attaching any importance to this. Afraid of falling into dependency, even on people who are close to him. Quite secretive, doesn't like when others try to "climb into his soul". Can deflect a direct conversation and skillfully place his conversation partner on the spot.

    In his heart, he is a bit guarded, mistrustful and suspecting. Afraid of trickery and betrayal by those whom he trusts. Inclined to fall into pessimism and melancholy. Ponders over his problems, especially of personal nature, tries not to share them with people around him. Opens up his heart and soul only to very close and tested friends. In moments of despair, needs understanding, compassion and consolation, but due to his mistrust he doesn't risk to open up and be honest. Not seldom turns to alcohol to relieve stress and tensions.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    Prefers to remain in the shadow, not showing his aspirations, but constantly holds his hand on the pulse of all that is happening around him. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all the variations of possible consequences, and only then enters into the game. Distrustful, careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Due to his low sociability makes an impression of being introverted. Once he has identified a target, acts slowly, by the method of "slowly compressing ring".


    I think those subtypes are much better than the subtypes described by Gulenko.

    By this token I'd be a Se one more than a Ti, although it also depends on the environment: in comparison to the ESTps I know @ university, I'm a Se subtype, but in comparison to the ghetto ESTps, I'm super Ti.
    Last edited by silke; 04-15-2018 at 08:29 PM. Reason: updated with translations
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    From this Daniel is both depending on his environment. He often seems to change depending on the company. For instance with me or my family he acts very , with his dad or his friends he's very
    All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    i think i'm more of the subtype. certain characteristics of the subtype also fit. i dunno i guess it depends on who i'm with. when i really let go of myself i'm clearly . but in general i try to keep a appearance so people won't flee from me. when confronted with my more demeanour, some people find me too loud for their tastes but i just think they're pussy. :wink:

    i get that mostly from the gamma IRL and sometimes delta. "what happen to the guy i used to know " or (my fav) "stay as you were yesterday". honorable mentions: "you've changed"; "you two-faced bastard"; "you rat"; "people are so much nicer when you first meet them... ".

    i think growing up in a mostly gamma environment forced me to maybe tone down my personality, doubt myself and my own judgements. when i was 20 i broke out and was forever changed. yeah, maybe i'm more of the black sensing kind.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    From this Daniel is both depending on his environment. He often seems to change depending on the company. For instance with me or my family he acts very , with his dad or his friends he's very
    I act much more creative function around my family as well... but more so with people I do not feel very connected too.

    Is that how he is?
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

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    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    ESTp Subtypes


    Sensory subtype: (The Coordinator)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The sensory subtype is witty and impulsive… while seemingly concealing within them latent threats they appear unappeasable. However, they are sharp, aggressive and persevering people. Notably resourceful, they are able to manifest vindictiveness in doses that make life for their ill-wishers simply intolerable. Their character appears full of contrasts and unpredictability. Towards those whom they love they are often tender, even sentimental. Their sense of humor easily incorporates sarcasm and caustic irony. Are talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp, love epithets and slang expressions. Their movements are fast and gait centered, When walking their slightly bent knees provide them with an ingratiating feline resemblance. Appreciate life and tend to watch over their health, periodically exercising through sports/gymnastics. Dresses tastefully and expensively. Usually provide a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.

    (Victor Gulenko) Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behaviour. Expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergencies; find themselves in conflicts; can pressure people in order to rapidly introduce order. If conflicts do not occur, they can provoke some in order to then take the initiative into their own hands. Emotional and sociable, will want the attention of more than one person of the opposite sex. Women also display initiative in their acquaintances with men. This subtype is sinewy, mobile, often thin, has a well developed taste, is an epicure. In fashion are drawn to refinement and prestige.

    (Sexual behaviour) Demonstrative and behave unpredictably. Are sexually daring and energetic; animated in interaction and possessing feelings of humor. Are sexual and diverse in both moods and erotic reactions. Strongly emotional, are inclined to ignore the feelings and attitudes of other people and to consider their interests. An imperious and demanding partner, but can be thoughtful and affectionate. Find it difficult to restrain jealousy. Require an attentive, loyal, and reliable partner, whom will remain utterly submissive to their initiative.










    Logical subtype: (The Organizer)

    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype constructs an impression of quite force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.

    (Victor Gulenko) Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".

    (Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
    INFp-Ni

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    according to the above description my ex would be a Ti organizer subtype. he is definitely initally quiet and watches the dynamics so he can ascertain the power base.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    bullshit

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    Thanks, that really made my day.

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    Default Re: ESTps: which subtype of those two are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    By this token I'd be a Se one more than a Ti, although it also depends on the environment: in comparison to the ESTps I know @ university, I'm a Se subtype, but in comparison to the ghetto ESTps, I'm super Ti.
    I agree; I know I can be seen as both in different situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy
    According to the descriptions that Misutii gave, I'm much more of a logical subtype.
    bullshit
    You know, because you've met me IRL and everything. You must have a crystal clear picture of my personality patterns etched into your grey matter, because of all those intimate conversations we've had IRL. I don't know a single person who knows me better than you. Congratulations, dipshit.
    lol my ex used to say dipshit all the time too

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default SLE-Ti

    Edit: What is this type like? How would I recognize them? Do you guys know any celebrity examples or could you please post some pictures for VI purposes? Also does this type display hidden aganda differently than the Se subtype? If so, how?

    Thank you : )
    Last edited by Christy B; 02-20-2008 at 11:18 PM.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    what, like lokivanguard? like mario? I don't understand
    Iam wondering in real life what the SLE-Ti type acts like, looks like, and how they present their hidden agenda. I think I can recognize the Se subtype, but am not sure I would recognize Ti if I was faced with them.

    Maybe, if someone could tell me how they differ from the Se-subtype I would have something to compare them to. . .?
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cudcat View Post
    Thanks. Who would be considered Ti?
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Are they "goal oriented"? Would they be likely to set a goal in their career, or getting a girl/or guy, or getting some material thing like a specific car or house, and then telling people "I am going to do this thing" . . . and then doing it?

    Se types I have known seem less inclined to formally set goals, but maybe Ti is not the same.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    um.... i dont know.. maybe a bit more strategic.. but it could be taken that Se subs are just as strategic in that they are able to act on weaknesses they see very well.

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    Ti is more like the ESTp description in the Articles forum. Phlegmatic enough to be (initially) mistaken for an introverted judger; truly the ISTj's mirror.

    Se is more like the ESTp description on socionics.com.

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    Oh - I found another - Maybe this one?

    http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=9...1cbc6d67266992

    In their struggles SLE will never yield initiative. If necessary they will wait for the proper moment to act and will never forsake the opportunity at hand. Their influence is governed by their power, often they don’t think, to themselves of other [strange] ways to solve problems. Acting with pressure they do not submit themselves to the success of a common cause but rather are capable of entirely taking the responsibility of leadership amongst themselves. They are inflexible and rigid in conducting other people towards the execution of activities/problems. Decisively they manifest their interest in work and are not tormented or distracted by pangs in their consciousness, even if, for the achievement of their goals, they must pinch, punish or offend someone. When that, which they desire, is impossible to reach quickly and directly, they seek alternate routes and without fail tend to attain one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    Iam wondering in real life what the SLE-Ti type acts like, looks like, and how they present their hidden agenda. I think I can recognize the Se subtype, but am not sure I would recognize Ti if I was faced with them.

    Maybe, if someone could tell me how they differ from the Se-subtype I would have something to compare them to. . .?
    Right, evidently no one who has posted here has given satisfactory descriptions for a Ti subtype and for a Se subtype. They're useless turds. Fabio amongst others have posted subtype descriptions for the SLE before. Here's a link to the thread about SLE subtypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    why are you showing sergei ganin's bullshit? nearly all of these are wrong.
    Are you referring to socionics.com (owned by Ganin), in which case you're provided the wrong link or to socionics.us (owned by Rick), in which case you're slagging off Rick, not Ganin?

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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ead.php?t=7322


    Sensory- logical ekstravert: LEADER
    Appearance SLE is very diverse. This type of personality is not always simple for visual diagnostics as type Eie. It is possible to isolate these common features:
    Cold, evaluating view, sufficiently tenacious, entire noticing, but with the light haze or the languishing eyes, which imparts to it at times the expression of innocence, romanticism or pensiveness. Smile SLE does not always correspond to the expression of eyes; therefore it can appear stretched. Most frequently it smiles on the specific occasion, but not in order to arrange to itself.
    Motions well coordinated, harmonious, although somewhat irregular can be. Gait usually is smooth, is confident, is flexible, "cat". It is noticeable that man cans himself tax, to emphasize the merits of its body. SLE knows how to easily bear its body, even having significant weight. It dresses, as a rule, with the taste, it loves expensive, rare things. Style on each day of business or sport.
    If in a good mood - it is weakened and oars. In the poor mood of lip they are compressed, view sullenly. Poses moderately flattened, gestures important-looking, willingly demonstrates force and confidence in itself. It is time it is impatient, with the unexpected drops in the mood: first it is impulsive and cuttings, then it is ironic and affectionate with the notes of intimacy in the voice.

    COORDINATOR
    Sensory subtype seems by person ingenious, impulsive, who conceals the concealed threat and by no means reasonable. In actuality it is sharp, sufficiently aggressive and persistent. It can be rancorous and it is sufficient to resourceful in order to make life of the svikh ill-wishers of that of simply not tolerated. Has a nature contrasting and unpredictable. With those, whom it loves, it is periodically is very affectionate and even it is sentimental. It possesses such feeling of humor, which easily passes into the sarcasm or the caustic irony. Is talkative, obayatelen, it is ingenious, critical and cuttings, it loves epithets and slang expressions. Its motions are elastic and rapid, gait only waddle, elbows are slightly bent with walking, which gives cat ingratiating tones to it. Is characteristic the evaluating view with light prishchurom. Usually it follows its health, it is periodically occupied by sport or gymnastics. It dresses dearly and with the taste. The bright impression of confident in itself, flourishing person usually is produced.

    ORGANIZER
    Logical subtype leaves the impression of calm force and confidence in itself. It is rational and sequential in the matters. It is industrious and hardy. It is usually cold-blooded, sustained and imperturbable, but into the minutes of irritation it does not hide its fury, which is manifested in the view and the sharp, categorical gestures. In the calm state it is polite, amiable, although it holds collocutor on a certain distance. Its humor of cuttings is rather rough. In it there is rapid, distrustful view from under the eyebrows. Form usually is serious, is alerted. Gait and gestures are harmonious, are smooth and are clear. Somewhat monotonous dresses, and it is strict, although with the times of unexpectedly thrust or it is extravagant. It values qualitative clothing, rarely creating ensembles from a few things. In the majority of the cases it has a tendency too not to be separated. This relates both to the behavior and to the clothing. It seems cold and inaccessible, although he tries to be correct, flat and benevolent. It is held with the merit.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Default SLE-Ti subtype romantic behaviour

    This is probably Gulenko, but I don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion
    (Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
    Link

    Sounds like Victim to me. Thoughts from Aggressors and Victims alike?

    Herzy, as an SLE-Ti, what do you reckon? Does this sound like you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    It makes sense if you've ever seen their interactions with Fe-IEI.
    Can you elaborate? (What are those interactions like?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    omg baby, that Ti-ESTp sounds just like a sheep, LOL

    I would die before I was in that situation. Alternatively, the level of conversation between me and the IEIs I associate myself with is far better. I'm sorry, I just don't operate like that. This guy is too indecisive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    omg baby, that Ti-ESTp sounds just like a sheep, LOL

    I would die before I was in that situation. Alternatively, the level of conversation between me and the IEIs I associate myself with is far better. I'm sorry, I just don't operate like that. This guy is too indecisive.
    Weak Fi could cause one to be unsure of their own likes and dislikes, but I think some SLE's can try to make things the way they want them anyways. I think it would depend on who they're dealing with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Weak Fi could cause one to be unsure of their own likes and dislikes, but I think some SLE's can try to make things the way they want them anyways. I think it would depend on who they're dealing with?
    Oh come of it! I know my own likes and dislikes perfectly! I thought the SLE was assertive! Not some weakling who didn't really know what they wanted out of life!

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    I don't think the ESTp in baby's example is being indecisive. ESTp's are decisive, but cooperative in order to get things moving. Aggressive - appropriate use of Se.

    OTOH, the ENTp's I know are aggressive about pushing people to do what the ENTp wants to do, with very little regard for what the group wants. We either do what they want, or the ENTp gets sullen and dismissive. Infantile - inappropriate use of Se.

    I've never known an SLE to worry about whether they are perceived as a weakling... but ILE's worry about it all the time, often over-doing aggression because Se is a lesser understood function. ENTp's are overly passive (Fi) when Se would be more productive and overly aggressive (Se) when Fi would be most appropriate.

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    My SLE mom tends to try to push others to do what she wants with no concept of what they want, and I've attributed that to weak Fi. The things she wants are usually related to Si though... where to eat, etc. Or she wants them to run errands for her. And sometimes it's related to wanting Fe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Dude, get over yourself already. Everyone already knows that you think you're a RAWR TUFF 1337 D0M1NAT0R, so you don't need to keep beating a dead horse. Literally no one cares that you think you're all that.
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough. (And these misunderstandings are another reason why I think Gamma may make more sense for him than Beta.)
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    He seems like a positivist to me though, and an extrovert. atm I tend to think SEE makes the most sense. If not, then LIE.
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    Yeah, neither of those seems quite right to me, either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough.
    Ezra's is trying to sound tough to himself, not us. He's fighting internal anxiety stemming from a fear of ridicule, which just makes him seem aggressive while communicating with others. He's battling himself, not us.

    Anger masks fear. Preemptive aggression wards off attackers. Neither 'strategy' is an application of Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Ha! I knew I was good in Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Dude, get over yourself already. Everyone already knows that you think you're a RAWR TUFF 1337 D0M1NAT0R, so you don't need to keep beating a dead horse. Literally no one cares that you think you're all that.
    Dude, like totally. I mean, man, it's like... fuck man! Totally fuckin'... I mean what the fuck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't take the stuff Ezra says like that, and it amazes me that people confuse the stuff he says for trying to impress people or trying to sound tough. (And these misunderstandings are another reason why I think Gamma may make more sense for him than Beta.)
    Why is Joy the only person who understands my behaviour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    That dialogue was just about going to the fucking movies, not about getting "what you want out of life." I don't know where you're getting this idea that SLEs are bent on imposing their own desires on others 24/7, on all the mundane affairs of life and beyond. This simply is not the case and if most IEIs were to meet such a person, they would be outright repulsed. Matters of business/career path/"getting what you want out of life"? Sure. Social matters/matters of love? Not so much.
    Right, okay, a misunderstanding. I always took the IEI for someone who 'gave direction in life to the SLE', which really made me doubt SLE. I didn't realise it was only to do with love and social matters. Of course, I know exactly where I'm going with my life (to successville), exactly what I want to do (law), and exactly what I want to get out of it. (MONEY MONEY MONEY). However, when it comes to love and relationships etc., I am clueless.

    SLEs in general tend to give up the reins in these little social affairs and in consequently those greater affairs of love and relationships. These are the domains of the IEI. The Russian descriptions nail this dynamic pretty squarely, and it's no source of shame or grief for most SLEs. They pretty willingly give up dominion over the "relationship" to the ethical type - it's just not their area of focus.
    Thanks, this clears things up for me.

    That said, I think what Joy said about your possibly being Gamma makes sense in view of what you're saying. I could see maybe ISFj making more sense for you.
    Errr, I couldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Those could work, although I think I remember him always complaining about club atmospheres and loudness and laughter associated with Beta-quadra dynamics and whatnot, which made me lean towards ESI > SEE (who tend not to mind that sort of thing as much).
    Why would SEEs be more okay with it than ESIs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Ezra's is trying to sound tough to himself, not us. He's fighting internal anxiety stemming from a fear of ridicule, which just makes him seem aggressive while communicating with others. He's battling himself, not us.

    Anger masks fear. Preemptive aggression wards off attackers. Neither 'strategy' is an application of Se.
    Errr, yeah. You don't know me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Oh come of it! I know my own likes and dislikes perfectly! I thought the SLE was assertive! Not some weakling who didn't really know what they wanted out of life!
    This has nothing to do with being assertive. In Baby's example the ESTp wasn't being submissive, he was simply responding positively to the INFp's Ni. I've noticed that, for example, ESTps don't really look up information before doing something, like seeing a movie, therefore without Ni they can waste lots of time and money seeing boring/stupid movies. INFps on the other hand will check imdb.com and rottentomatoes and other information outlets beforehand so are usually better able to decide what movie would be good/enjoyable vs. a waste of time. An ESTp that refuses to acknowledge the benefit of an INFp's Ni in these matters is not "assertive" but stupid.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    Well what are the SEEs that you know like? IME, they don’t shy away from that sort of thing at all as a group. With ESIs it’s more of a toss-up. Some can tolerate it pretty well and some despise that sort of atmosphere.
    Fair enough; I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I don't know if you are joking, but, what do you mean by "good"?

    if you are truly confident about Fi-related matters, then you being SLE doesn't make any sense.
    I don't know what makes sense any more. My introspection skills are so shite one day I can see myself as one type and have evidence for it; the next I can see myself as a different type and have evidence for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    This has nothing to do with being assertive. In Baby's example the ESTp wasn't being submissive, he was simply responding positively to the INFp's Ni. I've noticed that, for example, ESTps don't really look up information before doing something, like seeing a movie, therefore without Ni they can waste lots of time and money seeing boring/stupid movies. INFps on the other hand will check imdb.com and rottentomatoes and other information outlets beforehand so are usually better able to decide what movie would be good/enjoyable vs. a waste of time. An ESTp that refuses to acknowledge the benefit of an INFp's Ni in these matters is not "assertive" but stupid.
    In the example conversation Baby came up the SLE's wishy-washy "I dunno, I guess so... whatever you want to do" attitude as extremely annoying. Herzy took it the wrong way. So did Baby. I'm sick of this shit that people place on me about wanting to be tough. If they see me as tough fair enough, but fuck off when you're discussing my self-perception; I'm not interested in what you think about what I think about myself; I'm interested in what you think about me and what I think about myself. No one has access to my head except me.

    By the way, that is bullshit. I used to check Empire before seeing a film, then decided it influenced my views on the film as I was watching it, so I started to go and see films I knew were going to be good, or at least ones critics were raving about. I will never go and see a film impulsively, and my judgment is almost always correct (regarding whether or not it had potential). I will not let someone else dictate going to see a film that wastes my money because it's bad. NI THANKYOU

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    It confuses me, however, that I have heard alot about SLE's hesitating due to confidence, although it seems an Se-Ti dominant wouldn't do that, would have assertive (Se) understanding (Ti). How do we reconcile that?
    ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    ??
    I think SLE-Tis hesitate because they're waiting for more information. period. Then when they have what they perceive to be enough, they will act decisively. I've seen this in action with more than one SLE-Ti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think SLE-Tis hesitate because they're waiting for more information. period. Then when they have what they perceive to be enough, they will act decisively. I've seen this in action with more than one SLE-Ti.
    what happens while they are making up their minds, is IEI to wait around in this time?? not me, they need to make up the mind-heart and then come after me :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    This has nothing to do with being assertive. In Baby's example the ESTp wasn't being submissive, he was simply responding positively to the INFp's Ni. I've noticed that, for example, ESTps don't really look up information before doing something, like seeing a movie, therefore without Ni they can waste lots of time and money seeing boring/stupid movies. INFps on the other hand will check imdb.com and rottentomatoes and other information outlets beforehand so are usually better able to decide what movie would be good/enjoyable vs. a waste of time. An ESTp that refuses to acknowledge the benefit of an INFp's Ni in these matters is not "assertive" but stupid.
    This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    what happens while they are making up their minds, is IEI to wait around in this time?? not me, they need to make up the mind-heart and then come after me :wink:
    Are you waiting around for an SLE? He's probably shy.

    As for the mind/heart, you will never get this made up. At least not until you're really deeply into the relationship. I was questioning my feelings for my dual up until a month or so ago, even though we've been together for nearly a year. Even though I told her I loved her from the start, there were things which made us both doubt this.

    You're far more likely to encounter an SLE who quickly goes for you, thinks he feels something for you, but doesn't. Then later he'll decide that he does, after all. And it will continue like this. And you will doubt it, and yourself. But eventually you'll realise that whatever you thought is irrelevant - you're quite clearly in love with one another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    what happens while they are making up their minds, is IEI to wait around in this time?? not me, they need to make up the mind-heart and then come after me :wink:
    IEIs just dance and sing and live their merry life (dating others if need be) until the SLE comes to their senses and realizes what they want. heh.

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