What's his type?

[FDG]

As for work discipline, it turned out it is not consistent, but effective. He goes through phases as a true workaholic, but then takes time off and puts work aside. He is self-employed currently, so he is on his own schedule. So instead of working consistently to finish a project, he will work on and off, but when he does work, he goes into the zone and there is nothing else. He is responsible about getting things done, but is rather last minute sometimes.

Aahah. I'm exactly like this. I think this is rather against ESTj, but I'm not sure.

[Gilly]

I agree. I can identify with the work habits, and, indeed, the large marjority of what has been mentioned to a great extent. I think most of it is unrelated to type almost entirely, although it may appear to match the stereotype of ESTj

[FDG]

I agree. I can identify with the work habits, and, indeed, the large marjority of what has been mentioned to a great extent. I think most of it is unrelated to type almost entirely, although it may appear to match the stereotype of ESTj

Yeah, I know that the other things can match too, but I also think that not everybody has that kind of work habits. Many many people I know work "steady".

[Kim]

Oh, and I seem to remember you being "confident" that I, too, was Delta at some point. Just something to think on. :wink:

Shush! :wink:

Ok you guys, ENTp? ESTp? I am the same way when it comes to work discipline. Fabie, I agree that that goes against ESTj. When I first met him, he was always working, but lately he has worked on and off.

Gilly, where do you see Ti?

EP temperament (I think).

Based on this http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml, I am inclined to say Alpha>Delta>Beta>Gamma (but that is to be taken with a grain of salt, really....I am absolutely not sure about this and could probably move the first three around with delta always being first or second. I am pretty sure he is not gamma).

Perhaps this helps (the nutshell approach):

He is willing to take risks (and has), he does not mind change AT ALL and would be willing to move anywhere (for example), he can adapt very well to situations but is a non-comformist when it comes to principles and values, he only opens up to people he feels very comfortable with, he expresses happiness freely, but is restrained when expressing sadness, I can see both aggressor and caregiver, he is a team player and can't stand it when people are selfish and do not act in the interest of the group, as a supervisor, he is laid back and does not openly display a leader attitude ("we are a team, I don't want to be the boss"), he is courageous, he will not pick a fight necessarily (unless it is for a good reason), but he will stand his ground (when it is something insignificant, he will try to appease the opponent first), he will go out of his way to help people, he can be very sentimental, he hates injustice and gets upset when watching movies that depict examples of injustice and the violation of people (Hotel Rwanda, etc.), he will try anything new that comes his way, but can be content in a more stable and unchanging situation for a while, he can be loud and rowdy and non-pc with lots of self-irony (and I think it's hysterical-probably because he is very willing to make fun of himself and traits in him), but only around the right people. He used to be quite the hedonistic bad boy and womanizer (unless he was in committed relationships), but isn't anymore (or at least so I hope, hehe).

Can either of you (or both) relate?

Ok, tell me about Fi PoLR again! Fabie, I will have something for you about SeTi (as promised) later today. Perhaps that will help, too.

I really want to know!! :wink:

[FDG]

Still, what you list here is usually only linked with ExTx, that's completely undoubtable

[Kim]

Still, what you list here is usually only linked with ExTx, that's completely undoubtable

Well, that's a start (because I have also considered ENFj). But are ESTps, ENTps, ESTjs, and ENTjs really THAT similar for this not to be enough information?

[Gilly]

Potentially, yes. When you have ENTps that are 3s and ESTjs that are 8w7s, you need quite a bit of information about their actual habits to distinguish the two. Perhaps if you would provide select portions of what we talked about, others would see my case.

[Mariano Rajoy]

From the beginning of your description, he never seemed like a J to me, and I had an ESTp/ISTp impression. If he has been VI-ed as ENTp, then I would say my first impression isn't too far off as N vs. S is often tricky to identify without hearing the person put thoughts and ideas together in a conversation.

Perhaps ENTp as my experience with that type correlates with the inconsistent behavior in all areas of your friends life; womanizer and commited, lazy and workaholic, non-pc and hating injustice.

.02

[Kim]

Thanks Mariano!

From the beginning of your description, he never seemed like a J to me, and I had an ESTp/ISTp impression. If he has been VI-ed as ENTp, then I would say my first impression isn't too far off as N vs. S is often tricky to identify without hearing the person put thoughts and ideas together in a conversation.

Indeed - I would tend towards NeTi. I feel that my Ne is productive with him like it is with other Ne types (Gilligan for example, as well as friends in rl). I also don't think that he is naturally Se dominant, but I could be wrong. I am trying to make sense of how SeTi works at the moment. I have a good grasp of NeTi I think. I am certain that he is not ISTp. But he is also very assertive during debates and rather aggressive during rants.

Gilly, what is it that made you VI him as ENTp?

Perhaps ENTp as my experience with that type correlates with the inconsistent behavior in all areas of your friends life; womanizer and commited, lazy and workaholic, non-pc and hating injustice.

It is really funny to me that you picked up on those behavioral traits being inconsistent - they are so normal to me. EP temperament seems pretty clear then. So you don't quite see that in ESTps? Fabie, do you relate?

Here is part of our conversation, Gilly (edited). He is making a case for a comparative relationship.

I know I can talk about things and the other day I was really down about all that has been going on and he was great - no insecurities on how to handle it at all. He is just reserved with his own problems.

To add: he talks about what he does and has done, but not about how he feels (with some exceptions). That is when NeFi comes in handy.

Keep in mind that psychological attraction is a LOT different from physical attraction or finding someone interesting/significant, and is ENTIRELY seperate from emotional attraction.

So how would you describe psychological attraction?

Imagine love, only more cerebral (I guess?) than emotional.Having someone fulfill your Super Id feels a lot like someone is petting your brain Laughing I know that sounds completely ridiculous, but I absolutely cannot think of a better way to put it >_<

...God, Warcraft? You should have known he was NT! Laughing

Yes, I can see what you mean. And I would say that that will take a bit of time indeed because he is moving very slowly in that regard. I can see it develop, but as I said, it will take longer with him than it did with other people I have been with.

To clarify: it is moving slow because he does not throw himself right into this concept of being partners. So I don't really have access to all levels of him yet and the psychological part is still to some extent closed off and subject to my interpretation. But the psychological attraction is surely developing as he opens up more and interaction becomes more complex and open because he reveals more facets of himself. So eventually it won't be any less intense, but also more stable. AND what I like is that it makes me move more slowly as well, which is GOOD! I have been more restrained in terms of attaching myself emotionally which is a good thing for me.

Emotional attraction was very strong from the very beginning for both of us. I know he definitely agrees with the emotional attraction because it made him a bit nervous. Fi PoLR?

Oh jeez, no wonder he feels like a science project and is freaked out about my obsession with finding out his type.

[Gilly]

Perhaps ENTp as my experience with that type correlates with the inconsistent behavior in all areas of your friends life; womanizer and commited, lazy and workaholic, non-pc and hating injustice.

Excellent observation. This is very much true of me.

Kim:
He has an EP look to him, and he's clearly not a feeler. I couldn't get a very good feel for his look, but what you described sounded more Ne dominat and weak Si to me.

[Kim]

He has an EP look to him, and he's clearly not a feeler. I couldn't get a very good feel for his look, but what you described sounded more Ne dominat and weak Si to me.

He does not appear to be a feeler based on description, picture or both?

Yes, by now I would say he is clearly Ne>Ni and Se>Si. I am not sure about the Ti and Te though. At this point, he seems to be ExTp, but I want to hear what Expat has to say when he is back.

Where do you see Ti?

[Kim]

Perhaps ENTp as my experience with that type correlates with the inconsistent behavior in all areas of your friends life; womanizer and commited, lazy and workaholic, non-pc and hating injustice.

Excellent observation. This is very much true of me.

But it's true of me and I would assume of Fabie as well. Does that really indicate ENTp? Perhaps it plays out differently for each EP type in terms of emotional involvement, sense of appropriateness, etc. So the difference would lie in the attitude towards/awareness of/ etc. of one's own inconsistent behavior rather than the behavior itself? E.g. I would only be non-pc in a situation where I know for sure that I don't offend anyone while an ESTp would not be so worried about that. How about an ENTp?

[Gilly]

Depends ENTIRELY on the people and my relationship to them, as well what effect doing so might have on me in the future.

[Kim]

Depends ENTIRELY on the people and my relationship to them, as well what effect doing so might have on me in the future.

I see.

So tell me where you see Ti. He is still ENTp in your mind?

[Gilly]

Well, here's my perspective: VI indicates an ExTx, you describe him as EP, you say that he agrees with what I described as typical Si Super-Id behavior, your relationship sounds like mine with my IEE roommate and you agreed with what I said about comparatives, and nothing you have said so far is contrary to ILE in any way that might cause me to sufficiently doubt it.

Does that answer your question?

[Kim]

It does!

I will run a few descriptions by him and see if he identifies. Perhaps I can get a more natural picture, too.

Let's see what Expat has to say. And I would like to know if Fabie thinks he could also be ESTp.

[FDG]

There are many things I identify with; but I think that I'd need a VI in order to confirm or not.

Something I'm particularly good at is taking up accents, that's a particularity I share with him. But uhm, I don't wanna be a negativist - but could you describe some negative traits too?

How are his energy levels? ENTps I know all have noticeably lower energy levels.

Oh yeah I identify with paradoxical thinking to a certain extent. It's usually stabilized only when I find myself in a situation in which I am required to "take a stance"; only then I'm able to decide which side I "sponsor", so to speak.

[Kim]

Negative traits?? I will think about those.

He has a lot of energy, but it's somewhat erratic. He can be at the computer for a long time, then he suddenly jumps at and does something else. He paces often. When I read him personality profiles, he was constantly walking around and basically cleaning up. I would not at all describe him as passive. When he talks, he usually sounds excited and as I said, he is very expressive and sounds very energetic and lively.

I will pm you for the picture.

[FDG]

Def. ExTp, ennagram 7 or 3...

[Kim]

Def. ExTp, ennagram 7 or 3...

I would say a 7w6. That would be Gilly. And myself. That would make sense.

[Gilly]

Eh, I'm personally beginning to doubt that I lean significantly to either 6 or 8, because I have marked traits of both, but if you see more of one than the other in me, that's your call

[Kim]

Eh, I'm personally beginning to doubt that I lean significantly to either 6 or 8, because I have marked traits of both, but if you see more of one than the other in me, that's your call

I still think you are a deviant ENTp and some sort of closet delta, so 6 it is!

[Gilly]

ESTjs are 8s

[Kim]

ESTjs are 8s

Nice try, hehe!

[Gilly]

You are most likely a type 7 (the Enthusiast) with 8 wing

Sexual variant


Type 7 SX
Type 8 SX
Type 3 SX
Type 2 SX
Type 4 SX
Type 1 SX
Type 5 SX
Type 9 SX
Type 6 SX

:wink:

[Kim]

Only because you are hiding the 6 characteristics for special occasions.

Let's just say you are COMPLEX! There, complex is good. People like complex.

[FDG]

Oh there's a tell-tale of ESTp that ENTps don't do. When standing in one place (not sitting) ESTps move the body/feet/arms/hips rythmically without noticing that they do.

[Gilly]

No; I do that, too.

[FDG]

No; I do that, too.

When you aren't sitting??? NEVER seen an ENTp doing it with his whole body, sorry.

[Gilly]

Yep, all the time. My sister used to comment on it all the time in church; that's the only reason I know

[Gilly]

But she also recently conveyed observations of me that indicate lots of Se... She always tells me that I take up alot of space in a room, and that I can be really indimidating/scary without meaning to be or completely out of context, which was REALLY foreign to me...

But I'm no SLE.

[Kim]

But I'm no SLE.

What makes you so sure?

And anything that could help distinguish between ENTp and ESTp is most welcome, so discuss your own types! Thanks guys!

[Steve]

Oh there's a tell-tale of ESTp that ENTps don't do. When standing in one place (not sitting) ESTps move the body/feet/arms/hips rythmically without noticing that they do.

Is this different from always having a beat/song/rhythm in your head that you're moving some part of your body to, because I do that?

However if you're referring to those parts moving together as in a stiff synchronized motion, I do not do that.

[FDG]

Oh there's a tell-tale of ESTp that ENTps don't do. When standing in one place (not sitting) ESTps move the body/feet/arms/hips rythmically without noticing that they do.

Is this different from always having a beat/song/rhythm in your head that you're moving some part of your body to, because I do that?

However if you're referring to those parts moving together as in a stiff synchronized motion, I do not do that.

Say you are standing still in a place. You move your ankles left and then right? Or your hips back and forth pushing a little on the top of your toes?

[Steve]

Oh I see. I don't think I do that but I can't really remember. I'll pay attention the next time I'm in that position.

[Gilly]

Those things that you describe are PRECISELY what I do, Fabie.

The biggest difference between SLE and ILE...this is tough, because to be honest, I would say that I exemplify LOTS of stereotypical SLE traits I like physical contact with my friends, I love to wrestle, fuck around, be immature, make potty jokes, play sports, compete, etc...But the biggest difference I see between myself and other ILEs, and most SLEs is the internal tension. ILEs always have this thing about them where you feel like they are a little high-strung, whereas SLEs are a little bit more mellow, but at the same time have a more lower-tone energy about them. They also usually look a bit sturdier...they tend to look "tuned in," whereas ILEs look "switched on," if that makes any sense. ILEs have more nervous/mental energy, whereas SLEs have more physical energy.

[Gilly]

But I'm no SLE.

What makes you so sure?

And anything that could help distinguish between ENTp and ESTp is most welcome, so discuss your own types! Thanks guys!

Because I have both SLE and ILE friends en masse, and I can tell who my identicals are. Also, SLEs and I have more of a respect for one another, while ILEs and I share a sort of brotherhood/common ground. Plus, I honestly can't see myself as not Ne dominant. If I'm not, then I'm Ni dominant, and there are many, MANY more who would protest that than the former (including myself ). So yes, I am sure that I am ILE, although I'm flattered that you seem to think I could be dominant I naturally have more genuine respect for the types that I know in terms of appreciation for one another's abilities and perspectives than any other type that I know of (obviously this is a blanket statement, and is not true in every case ).

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Kim]

The biggest difference between SLE and ILE...this is tough, because to be honest, I would say that I exemplify LOTS of stereotypical SLE traits I like physical contact with my friends, I love to wrestle, fuck around, be immature, make potty jokes, play sports, compete, etc...But the biggest difference I see between myself and other ILEs, and most SLEs is the internal tension. ILEs always have this thing about them where you feel like they are a little high-strung, whereas SLEs are a little bit more mellow, but at the same time have a more lower-tone energy about them. They also usually look a bit sturdier...they tend to look "tuned in," whereas ILEs look "switched on," if that makes any sense. ILEs have more nervous/mental energy, whereas SLEs have more physical energy.

^

Based on this, I would say he is ENTp - his energy does not seem sensorishly grounded. :wink: And he often seems a bit spaced out, like myself.

Actually, the tuned in/switched on dichotomy absolutely works to differeniate between my ESFp friends and me. Their energy is also more physical and grounded whereas mine is also nervous/mental. Interesting.

And I agree, you absolutely are Ne dominant! The second most likely type for you is, after all, ENFp!

I was just wondering what exactly it is that makes you think you are ENTp.

[FDG]

Oh there's a tell-tale of ESTp that ENTps don't do. When standing in one place (not sitting) ESTps move the body/feet/arms/hips rythmically without noticing that they do.

Is this different from always having a beat/song/rhythm in your head that you're moving some part of your body to, because I do that?

However if you're referring to those parts moving together as in a stiff synchronized motion, I do not do that.

Say you are standing still in a place. You move your ankles left and then right? Or your hips back and forth pushing a little on the top of your toes?

I'm not an ESTp that's for sure, but I'll roll my ankles back and forth, or rock from heel to toe sometimes if I'm standing for awhile in one place. So, maybe not so type-related.

I don't know. I've also observed it in one professor of mine. It's done in a precise way which I cannot communicate, but which is also a tell-tale. I'm sure it's type realted, because in that exact way I have never observed other types doing it. Just like the waddle-walk of ESFps: I can wallde a bit when I walk, but theirs is done in a very particular way.