Your Type and Traumatic Reactions of your own

[Braingel]

I had planned to make this thread quite a long time ago, but I believe this is something that needs address, as this site has a vast history of childhood abuse, neglect or overall adversity, such as death of a parent.. It may even be the most important thread that will end up being made on this site…

Some behaviors may fuse if they become maladaptive patterns, but overall, I believe people mistype as reactive cores in enneagram, and especially 6 core (an anxiety centered type, and ptsd is an anxiety disorder), and also higher Fe and higher Se.. Even when this may. It necessarily be the case. It may also show specific patterns and confirm certain theories like shadow or grip.

Now, people need to realize that their reactions and behavior in a traumatic environment of origin would likely differ from their behavior from years upon years of living away..

This is sort of a “survey”, I suppose, but I would like you to if it isn’t too personal, enlist:

-Behaviors you had whilst you were living around a traumatic environment, and especially if you’ve been abused, your behaviors there..
-How many years you’ve lived away from traumatic stimulus or have processed the trauma
-If you believe others would’ve mistyped you a certain thing or if you behaved more of a certain type…
-Personality shifts that occurred after the trauma from your original nature, and also that changes after you got out of the trauma or processed it
-What your self-type(s) is/are (list the school you use, for instance, school of classical socionics, John beebe, Naranjo or RH enneagram, etc)
-the kind of trauma (as I believe some forms of trauma may beget specific behaviors that may be sort of universal reactions. For instance, a victim do gaslighting will probably feel more inclined to “prove” and show, or outright reject talking to anyone.
-the duration and amount of years of the trauma —if chronic (this would also have a prevalent role in behavioral formation)
-Whether you were conscious or unconscious of certain behaviors
-outlooks you’ve developed as the result of the traumatic stimulus
-your own theories in why you’ve developed the way you had

Unfortunately, I cannot vastly answer my own questionnaire, because I live with my family, however, when I’ve lived in youth facilities, I became much more complacent and less volatile.

Rules of this thread:

1) You cannot invalidate someone else’s trauma
2) You cannot argue someone’s self-type in this thread
3) Whilst sympathy can give, try keep it mostly on topic

As I started to write my own response, I realize that you also need specify the relationships had relative to abuse and trauma.

I will add an additional question— how did you reach the conclusion of your current self-type, and rule out traumatic factors? And at which confidence are you identifying as these/this type(s)?

Also: what types were you raised around? How did this potentially influence the way you formed?

-list themes (emotional, behavioral, parenting style, etc) in your childhood

[Braingel]

I had planned to make this thread quite a long time ago, but I believe this is something that needs address, as this site has a vast history of childhood abuse, neglect or overall adversity, such as death of a parent.. It may even be the most important thread that will end up being made on this site…

Some behaviors may fuse if they become maladaptive patterns, but overall, I believe people mistype as reactive cores in enneagram, and especially 6 core (an anxiety centered type, and ptsd is an anxiety disorder), and also higher Fe and higher Se.. Even when this may. It necessarily be the case. It may also show specific patterns and confirm certain theories like shadow or grip.

Now, people need to realize that their reactions and behavior in a traumatic environment of origin would likely differ from their behavior from years upon years of living away..

This is sort of a “survey”, I suppose, but I would like you to if it isn’t too personal, enlist:

-Behaviors you had whilst you were living around a traumatic environment, and especially if you’ve been abused, your behaviors there..
-How many years you’ve lived away from traumatic stimulus or have processed the trauma
-If you believe others would’ve mistyped you a certain thing or if you behaved more of a certain type…
-Personality shifts that occurred after the trauma from your original nature, and also that changes after you got out of the trauma or processed it
-What your self-type(s) is/are (list the school you use, for instance, school of classical socionics, John beebe, Naranjo or RH enneagram, etc)
-the kind of trauma (as I believe some forms of trauma may beget specific behaviors that may be sort of universal reactions. For instance, a victim do gaslighting will probably feel more inclined to “prove” and show, or outright reject talking to anyone.
-the duration and amount of years of the trauma (this would also have a prevalent role in behavioral formation)
-Whether you were conscious or unconscious of certain behaviors
-outlooks you’ve developed as the result of the traumatic stimulus
-your own theories in why you’ve developed the way you had

Unfortunately, I cannot vastly answer my own questionnaire, because I live with my family, however, when I’ve lived in youth facilities, I became much more complacent and less volatile.

Rules of this thread:

1) You cannot invalidate someone else’s trauma
2) You cannot argue someone’s self-type in this thread
3) Whilst sympathy can give, try keep it mostly on topic

As I started to write my own response, I realize that you also need specify the relationships had relative to abuse and trauma.

My own response to my questionnaire—

Note: I have to go, so I will make a continuation post later on…



Types of trauma:


1) Primary emotional abuse and emotional neglect (parental)
2) Isolated incidences of physical abuse (parental, cousin, bullying physical assaults by peers)
3) Isolated sexual assault (mother’s friend, stranger)
4) Chronic inappropriate sexual boundary violated by father up to age 15 (“love biting”, but never my breasts or genital. But my nubile body, including buttocks and thighs)
5) School bullying primary
6) Medicated food by mother for a few months with Lexapro
7) Taken out of house in midst of night by youth transporters (age recently turnt 16)
8) chronic online harassment
9) chronic mental health stigma towards borderline personality disorder
10) Secondary emotional abuse from youth caregiver (facility called Cathedral Home for Children with staff)
11) Chronically ill sister
12) Primary and secondary (extended) family dysfunction: abuse, alcoholism, criminality at felon level, power imbalance dynamic, breech of boundaries, meth use (extended)
13) psychiatric inpatients

My self-types:

Western socionics: IEI
Classical Socionics: EII
MBTI: INFP
John Beebe: INFP
Oscar Ichazo 4, 479
Claudio Naranjo: Social 4
RH: social 4w5
modern tritype: 461
Big 5: RLUE/AI

Duration of trauma:

School bullying: kindergarten to eleventh grade, isolated incidences in 12th and I dropped out

Emotional abuse: around 16-17 years (so I tend say 15+ years, because I can’t remember the exact date)

Physical abuse: happened in isolated episodes throughout childhood, hard to pin a duration
Father’s inappropriate biting boundary: infancy to fifteen. I learnt from my mother, who normalized the behavior, that he did it to me as a baby, which wasn’t as weird admittedly, it’s weird it happened in my pubescent time

Online harassment: around 6 1/2 years

Regular stigma: around 3-4 years


More specific in types of abuse:
Emotional: Family— name calling (“worthless piece of shit”, “stupid girl”, “dumbass”, “mother fucker”, “bitch”, “cunt”), gaslighting (accusing me of having “hallucinated” my molest and physical abuse seconds after I was hit. I’ve never hallucinated in my life), terrorizing threats (speeding and threatening crash car, faking me out with remotes and standing out door and threatening harm me and standing in my face with an object, threatening break it on my head), favoritism with mother saying sister is favorite child and double standards (mother punishing me for my reactions to my sister’s bullying, including sexual harassment and threatening me with psych ward and police).. Blackmail, including out of reporting and guilt tripping with child protective services with my sister’s physical illnesses and how she needs medical care, when I was 17
Facility staff: name calling (“snot”, spoilt princess”), therapist broke my confidentiality to other girls like me walking naked in front of parents (my parents told the therapist that, and well.. I learnt do that because of father’s love biting and my mother also being naked sometimes), therapist threatening to put me in a psych ward if I cried and she knew how much psych wards scared myself.. Never feeling like I can tell her anything, taking me back from a public outing for crying in public and my make up away and yelling at me in car for crying.

Physical: Father— Hair pull, pull and shake me by hair (once), spankings with hands and wooden spoons, pinning me down, biting is physical/sexual, slapping.. Mother: hit with back brace of my sister’s, spankings, pinching and grabbing.. Wyatt (peer): isolated incidence of choking, Raquel’s (peer), whipping me with a belt and placing a beetle in my ear (in facility), Brittany (peer): chronically pinched my arms in girl’s locker room at Nadadore’s swim team.. For maybe 2 years, Kiani (peer) isolated incidence of slapping me, cousin Chelsea: isolated incidence of hitting me whilst she was drunk when I was 14 and she, 21

Other notable bullying: George plotted take my life at age 13 and got expelled from the catholic school and a juice record and restraining order, locked in a bathroom for the duration of summer camp break when I was 11, social media post when I was 12 that spread to other schools and those girls got in huge trouble.. Had my backpack taken numerous times whilst I was in a lunchline and not attending my backpack, and it was found in the drinking fountain drenched and soaked.. Age 7: girls tried blame me for a girl’s bloody nose that I didn’t do..

[necrosebud]

Idk if contentious for my family (possible)

I think l there is low emotional intelligence and it might be inter generational


and that I am specially vulnerable to the lack of emotional intelligence and insensitive caregiving

my dad definitely can get into moods where he projects tone that does not exist and becomes punitive for it

my mom is disconnected from me and just wants me to be positive or something

can’t imagine this dynamic wasn’t at play even if nonverbally in childhood or infancy

[necrosebud]

Although to be fair every single photo of me when young I seem to be clearly mischievous/happy and there’s no disconnect. My dad said I also had a careful temperament tho so maybe both then

and some point k become reserved and my mom said I suddenly withdrew and became very sad after starting school and they don’t know why. I don’t remember any trauma tied to something like this personally

all I know as far as I remember I have in fact avoidant attachment with my parents
anxious attachment with romantic interests

ie disorganized attachment overall. The most messed up one apparently

[Braingel]

I know that this questionnaire/survey I made is very personal and others may not have the comfort to be posting this on a random thread, but I would appreciate if people can do it, because it can show people how trauma can make someone behave atypically for their own type and that it’s not automatically about being a type.. It also can show specific shadow dynamics amid other things, that would really benefit the community to know of.

I figured Rose would answer, I appreciate her in so doing..

I have a lot of stuff to work on, and will tackle the rest of my own response in this later.. I’ve two art competitions coming up with my developmental disability day program, and am trying hone in on sketching and water color…

I also omitted one type of trauma I had, well, two (likely because my Si is vital and low D in classical).. Concerning my health. With my rheumatoid arthritis and when I injured my left front fake tooth at age 8.. Also preverbal traumas I had.. I will have to include this in my second half of my questionnaire.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Although to be fair every single photo of me when young I seem to be clearly mischievous/happy and there’s no disconnect. My dad said I also had a careful temperament tho so maybe both then

and some point k become reserved and my mom said I suddenly withdrew and became very sad after starting school and they don’t know why. I don’t remember any trauma tied to something like this personally

all I know as far as I remember I have in fact avoidant attachment with my parents
anxious attachment with romantic interests

ie disorganized attachment overall. The most messed up one apparently

What do you think you need? Love?

[necrosebud]

What do you think you need? Love?

im not completley sure

[FreelancePoliceman]

im not completley sure

It'll work out for us all. You gotta believe and you gotta fight.

[necrosebud]

Thanks for the encouragement

[Braingel]

My own response to my questionnaire—

Note: I have to go, so I will make a continuation post later on…



Types of trauma:


1) Primary emotional abuse and emotional neglect (parental)
2) Isolated incidences of physical abuse (parental, cousin, bullying physical assaults by peers)
3) Isolated sexual assault (mother’s friend, stranger)
4) Chronic inappropriate sexual boundary violated by father up to age 15 (“love biting”, but never my breasts or genital. But my nubile body, including buttocks and thighs)
5) School bullying primary
6) Medicated food by mother for a few months with Lexapro
7) Taken out of house in midst of night by youth transporters (age recently turnt 16)
8) chronic online harassment
9) chronic mental health stigma towards borderline personality disorder
10) Secondary emotional abuse from youth caregiver (facility called Cathedral Home for Children with staff)
11) Chronically ill sister
12) Primary and secondary (extended) family dysfunction: abuse, alcoholism, criminality at felon level, power imbalance dynamic, breech of boundaries, meth use (extended)
13) psychiatric inpatients

My self-types:

Western socionics: IEI
Classical Socionics: EII
MBTI: INFP
John Beebe: INFP
Oscar Ichazo 4, 479
Claudio Naranjo: Social 4
RH: social 4w5
modern tritype: 461
Big 5: RLUE/AI

Duration of trauma:

School bullying: kindergarten to eleventh grade, isolated incidences in 12th and I dropped out

Emotional abuse: around 16-17 years (so I tend say 15+ years, because I can’t remember the exact date)

Physical abuse: happened in isolated episodes throughout childhood, hard to pin a duration
Father’s inappropriate biting boundary: infancy to fifteen. I learnt from my mother, who normalized the behavior, that he did it to me as a baby, which wasn’t as weird admittedly, it’s weird it happened in my pubescent time

Online harassment: around 6 1/2 years

Regular stigma: around 3-4 years


More specific in types of abuse:
Emotional: Family— name calling (“worthless piece of shit”, “stupid girl”, “dumbass”, “mother fucker”, “bitch”, “cunt”), gaslighting (accusing me of having “hallucinated” my molest and physical abuse seconds after I was hit. I’ve never hallucinated in my life), terrorizing threats (speeding and threatening crash car, faking me out with remotes and standing out door and threatening harm me and standing in my face with an object, threatening break it on my head), favoritism with mother saying sister is favorite child and double standards (mother punishing me for my reactions to my sister’s bullying, including sexual harassment and threatening me with psych ward and police).. Blackmail, including out of reporting and guilt tripping with child protective services with my sister’s physical illnesses and how she needs medical care, when I was 17
Facility staff: name calling (“snot”, spoilt princess”), therapist broke my confidentiality to other girls like me walking naked in front of parents (my parents told the therapist that, and well.. I learnt do that because of father’s love biting and my mother also being naked sometimes), therapist threatening to put me in a psych ward if I cried and she knew how much psych wards scared myself.. Never feeling like I can tell her anything, taking me back from a public outing for crying in public and my make up away and yelling at me in car for crying.

Physical: Father— Hair pull, pull and shake me by hair (once), spankings with hands and wooden spoons, pinning me down, biting is physical/sexual, slapping.. Mother: hit with back brace of my sister’s, spankings, pinching and grabbing.. Wyatt (peer): isolated incidence of choking, Raquel’s (peer), whipping me with a belt and placing a beetle in my ear (in facility), Brittany (peer): chronically pinched my arms in girl’s locker room at Nadadore’s swim team.. For maybe 2 years, Kiani (peer) isolated incidence of slapping me, cousin Chelsea: isolated incidence of hitting me whilst she was drunk when I was 14 and she, 21

Other notable bullying: George plotted take my life at age 13 and got expelled from the catholic school and a juice record and restraining order, locked in a bathroom for the duration of summer camp break when I was 11, social media post when I was 12 that spread to other schools and those girls got in huge trouble.. Had my backpack taken numerous times whilst I was in a lunchline and not attending my backpack, and it was found in the drinking fountain drenched and soaked.. Age 7: girls tried blame me for a girl’s bloody nose that I didn’t do..

I still have a lot to write of my questionnaire. I don’t have enough time to get into everything, but I will do my best to finish it..

As I said in my other post, I excluded a few types of trauma I’ve had pre-verbally and with my health (“vital” Si on the ladder).

Starting with the health trauma:

In 2022, I started to become very sick as the result of psychological breakdown, and from my mother having purposefully, yes, purposefully, given me COVID.

You see, there was construction going on in our house.. I had begged my mother to place me with my grandfather or even in a hotel, as with my autism, I cannot bear the loudness of such things.. I was having a meltdown (sensory) when they were knocking things down in the house and was yelling and cussing.. My mother being “embarrassed” (mind you, even though one of the workers had an autistic son) had threatened to breathe in my face if I wouldn’t stop, and she knew she had Covid (yes, she had people in our house in spite, as she isn’t mindful like that).. I couldn’t stop, so she cornered myself to the library back bookcase (the whole wall is a book case) and breathed in my face and slapped me, for my inability to calm down and “embarrassing” her. I’ve gotten her confessing to this on video, but will not post it here.

I developed sickness I believe from this activating the HLAB27 gene in me is tested for, positively… And extreme psychological stress that occurred from PTSD and oral ordeals..

I ensured significant medical gaslighting, as no one knew what was wrong with me, and I endured a plethora of misdiagnoses, until a very thorough ILI 5 core caught my rheumatoid arthritis, she was the only one who bothered to test for this, as you don’t tend develop such a thing until mid age… Even on the 16T discord, I was dealing with a lot of people just saying I’m being an “Si brake” eie and it further traumatized myself with further invalidation.

This will have explanation later on, with why I reacted the way I did in that time on that server…

The other medical trauma is that I broke my left front tooth at age 8, which to me, in my child perspective, even younger than 8 mentally due to autism, was like losing a finger. I hated the fake tooth and often grinder it against the surface of objects and I wanted get revenge on the woman connected to it.. I will later on get into this in the reaction categorization.

Almost forgot to include this, but I nearly died at age 2, had go to an ER where they ruled out spinal meningitis with a spinal tap… I’d a 105 degree fever, which for a toddler, is even more lethal, as their body can lesser handle heat.

At birth, my right clavicle had been broken by the suction.. My mother had induced me a week early, as she thought I’d be a hardy build as my father, when neither myself or my sister ended up being.. I didn’t want come out, so they had to rough handle me and fractured her pelvis (mother’s) and broke my collarbone/clavicle. It was unknown it was broken for 6+ weeks, so I was in agony as a newborn often.

Whilst I bear no conscious memory of these means, I am sure the first few days of my existence pain harbors away deep into my unconscious and its reactions…

There won’t be anyway to know definitively without a Time Machine or astral travel to the past, but it’s possible I faced molestation as an infant or two-year old. My father had hired two later on convicted pedophiles, that were around me often in that timeframe. I had started masturbating from memory by at least three, and it’s possible it embarked younger. The only memory I have is sitting on Zack’s lap when I was 3, in a sketcher’s with my father nearby, and he didn’t touch me inappropriately, but this is my only memory with him, and then in a restaurant vaguely. Kyle, the other pedophile, had been my volleyball coach when I was 8, and he was around me as a toddler and infant as well. I didn’t have any repulsion’s to him when he was my coach, however.

I don’t believe Kyle or Zack’s
crimes had do with prepubescent children though, I believe 14 was the age of one of the victims for Kyle. Whilst this is pedophilia, it is hard to say if they would do the same thing to a baby or toddler.

I was also left alone once with my cousin Michael, who had sexual deviance and my mother’s friends’s other infant son, Christian. I sometimes have weird flashes of memory regarding him, but I can’t ever uncover it. There will never anytime soon be a direct, physical way to know if I’ve faced molestation. My uncle Rhea, a convicted lifelong felon https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangel...ctims-husband/, had been sexually suggestive to me once when I was 15, and he was around me as an infant and toddler… He had said I’ve a nice tight ass and wanted to take me to Victoria’s Secret to buy me yoga pants to show it off.

Whilst he was sexual with me in that way, and I was afraid of him for different reasons with his reckless driving and untrustworthy personality, I never felt any repulsion from him or sexual feelings arouse. My sister, however, later on strangely enough said she was afraid of him raping her. She would’ve been 12 when he was around her a lot, so if she was afraid of him because he made comments, he was sexual with a 12 year old which is not fully pubescent.

My cousin Chelsea, who had hit me, had been repeatedly molested as a baby with my aunt’s drug addict male friends. She has weird reactions to intercourse and has scarring in there. I’ve never had inter course so wouldn’t know, but when masturbating, sometimes I cry.

Personality shifts

I endured significant shifts in my personality— most notably at age 15, so much to a point that with my other symptoms (muscle spasms, icepick/suicide headaches, doctors suspected I’d a brain tumor and I was tested.

I had never been violent in my life, not to any physical assault I had, including the choking, but at this age, I became more defiant towards my parents, and only my parents.

I believe if this forced out of my to survive and with repeated nervous system flares, such as my sister charging at me, and then out of impulse when she was, I whipped my iPhone charger at her, and it left a bump on her head (which I got in extreme trouble for, and I didn’t even want to hurt her, merely defend myself).. Being so unaware with sensation and force, I’d no idea that I would land it that hard to a point of her injuring and it was a moment of reactive defense.. My father repeatedly sped and threatened to crash the car and kill is at this age, he started before, but it occurred in the highest frequency at this age, so much, I tried to run away from home.

All 3 of my immediate family are 4D De types, which gets into the territory of a different question.. and they all forced
aggression from myself…

Anyhow, I have very important things that I’d like to share in documentation, as I believe they are educational
in terms of my gnarly personality shift, that resulted from extreme trauma and abuse..

This will likely be the only component I continue today…

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a04c32a94be6e&

Whilst I showed significant emotional disturbance by age 13, starting at age 11, the full shift occurred at 15.

This again, was the age I tried running away from home.. My search history on my phone would’ve showed ways to conceal my autism, and also wikihow searches on how to successfully run away from home… As well as how to commit suicide without any pain.

This was the age my threshold had been met, and I became an overflowing spout of water from the bucket I carried of all my traumatic baggage.

15 1/2 specifically… I had my first outpatient and inpatient psychiatric placement. For a lot of low line to 2 4 behaviors with attention seeking via self-harm… The inpatient unit had distressed me so much, I came out of it with vertigo for a week, with my perception being a continual spinning motion..

I was living in a hyper ptsd state, as they medicated me with the pill my mother had placed in my food, and I had a serious reaction to that pill the day she bumped it to 10 Mg, with a headache that made me believe I was dying.

My threshold was quite high, as by the time before I had this break, I had already faced routine (daily) emotional abuse in my household, sporadic occurrences of physical abuse throughout the months, daily mild to moderate bullying, isolated severe incidences of bullying (choking, plotting take my life).. At least one incidence of sexual abuse (I say one, because it’s possible I was molested as a baby or two-year old, and I have no way to know this for sure. And if you count what my father did as sexual abuse with the biting, then I had regular sexual abuse, but I don’t know how to classify it fully, it’s a breach of a sexual boundary, and is also physical). I’ve faced at least two sexual assaults, but the other one that happened 100% was after this age.

It took a decade of trauma overtime to collapse me full-on..

Prior to this shift, I had no aggression or paranoia towards my family. I still have no paranoia towards others outside of specific ptsd triggers and have never been physically aggressive towards anyone but my mother or father.

I am incapable of immense physical aggression. Even with my parents, it has been object throws, pinching and slapping.. It is out of element for myself, and it is an emotional extreme push. When I was molested by a man named Tony, my mother’s friend (which yes, is pair personality shift), I turnt my arm and jerked it and I just froze, I couldn’t slap him.

Whilst it was there by the time I had instagram (age 13, one month short of 14) with my expressiveness, as I begun to disintegrate into 2 at this age, I was not as histrionic until 15, and especially age 18. Maybe it’s the whole “personality disorder generally onsets by young adulthood”, as I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at age 17, even though I don’t believe I’ve it full-on and have cptsd with bpd features..

As a child, I was more of a delta NF in behavioral
models… There was nothing vastly beta about myself or Se valuing in general.. I’d have been typed by others, as something as EII-Ne or IEE-Fi, likely the former, with no ability to outwardly organize well (1D Te).

I’d say at age 12-13 I started to get there, and by 15, my behavior fully shifted into Beta. I was the embodiment of dreamy fairy girl who keeps in her own bubble, creates alternate worlds in her own sphere, and fantasizes having one close friend.

I will complete other portions in this post later on; themes and I’ll add a parental background categorization…. I will also have to finish my shadow shift later on, as I have to go.. I will edit this post and add in more at a later time.

Quickly, though people are probably wondering how I had so much trauma, aaaaand.. To simplify, autism. Autism with dysfunctional family dynamic on extended both sides, which placed me into further positions to face more traumatization. I’ll build on this in a separate category. Combined with an atypically that others pathologize and treated as an illness.

[Distance]

Having a difficult parent and loving parent was strange for me. I was raised single parent and my EIE mother babied me, and would say some girl is going to steal you away from me, lol. Or she would say, she is also going to take advantage of you teasing me, because i could be a soft touch.

Overall showered me with everything.

Flip side:

My dad was very controlling and verbally abusive and somewhere in my history i died inside toward him in a certain instance. There was the DC shooter's wife, when her husband was caught she said didn't even know this person anymore or who he even was. He snipered pedestrians out of a trunk of car, if anyone remembers. I thought the analogy apt. It was something like that were something completely alienates you in a separation from another where there is no return.

In the last 4 years i looked up personality disorders and i see some OCPD with the order and control & Empathy = 0 in that dynamic.

As a kid you always want to please but being around him it was volatile or nice in a splitting.

We were at my aunt's onetime, his sister, and we were in a snowball fight outside, and my cousin threw a bunch of direct hits, and my dad charged him and rubbed his face in the snow making him cry. He darted fast in a rage. We were only 12.

There was a toilet paper roll that fell into toilet, and he grabbed both of us and forced our hands into the toilet among the poop to get it out. He thought we did it and blamed us for it.

He grabbed my cousin by the hair onetime, and rocked his head against the wall hard enough where the pictures were rocking on the wall. He just snapped like that. It was some minor provocation, it just didn't happen out of thin air, but still.

He once called over here at 2 in the morning and accused me of hiding his keys, i was there earlier in a visit during the day and he just plain lost them.

I reached the emotional death zone here with him at that certain instance. Like i couldn't fathom a parent descending into something where you are seen and treated as an enemy.

My middle name for him was overkill. Privately.

He has held people at gunpoint a few times. I witnessed a lot of violence with him when he snapped. And out came the 9mm pistol.

He killed a guy in a bar fight once, it was in self defense. He used to punch a bag in the garage, just in case. His dad was a champion boxer in the navy, and he inherited that ability, my dad was 6' 4" and could kill with a punch. He used to brag he could last 3 rounds with Muhammad Ali. It was stressful being around him.

Realizing that my dad was ill brought another whole understanding to the forefront.

He was LSI, and i identify with IEE type.

[Braingel]

Having a difficult parent and loving parent was strange for me. I was raised single parent and my EIE mother babied me, and would say some girl is going to steal you away from me, lol. Or she would say, she is also going to take advantage of you teasing me, because i could be a soft touch.

Overall showered me with everything.

Flip side:

My dad was very controlling and verbally abusive and somewhere in my history i died inside toward him in a certain instance. There was the DC shooter's wife, when her husband was caught she said didn't even know this person anymore or who he even was. He snipered pedestrians out of a trunk of car, if anyone remembers. I thought the analogy apt. It was something like that were something completely alienates you in a separation from another where there is no return.

In the last 4 years i looked up personality disorders and i see some OCPD with the order and control & Empathy = 0 in that dynamic.

As a kid you always want to please but being around him it was volatile or nice in a splitting.

We were at my aunt's onetime, his sister, and we were in a snowball fight outside, and my cousin threw a bunch of direct hits, and my dad charged him and rubbed his face in the snow making him cry. He darted fast in a rage. We were only 12.

There was a toilet paper roll that fell into toilet, and he grabbed both of us and forced our hands into the toilet among the poop to get it out. He thought we did it and blamed us for it.

He grabbed my cousin by the hair onetime, and rocked his head against the wall hard enough where the pictures were rocking on the wall. He just snapped like that. It was some minor provocation, it just didn't happen out of thin air, but still.

He once called over here at 2 in the morning and accused me of hiding his keys, i was there earlier in a visit during the day and he just plain lost them.

I reached the emotional death zone here with him at that certain instance. Like i couldn't fathom a parent descending into something where you are seen and treated as an enemy.

My middle name for him was overkill. Privately.

He has held people at gunpoint a few times. I witnessed a lot of violence with him when he snapped. And out came the 9mm pistol.

He killed a guy in a bar fight once, it was in self defense. He used to punch a bag in the garage, just in case. His dad was a champion boxer in the navy, and he inherited that ability, my dad was 6' 4" and could kill with a punch. He used to brag he could last 3 rounds with Muhammad Ali. It was stressful being around him.

Realizing that my dad was ill brought another whole understanding to the forefront.

He was LSI, and i identify with IEE type.

Mother sounds like a 2, father sounds like an 8.. Interestingly enough, my parents’ types. You need not answer the questionnaire in more detail, but it seems like you were around your mother more? So you wouldn’t have developed around father as much which would’ve probably enabled healthier development and personality formation.. Correct me if I’ve it wrong.

[Braingel]

Also Fi- is there in your outlook towards father.. In modern.. In classical, that wouldn’t necessarily mean Fi-

[Distance]

Also Fi- is there in your outlook towards father.. In modern.. In classical, that wouldn’t necessarily mean Fi-

I'm curious Braingel, in how would Fe manifest in this scenario. I think I'm Fi with 4 D Fe, but if you can, how would an Fe attitude show here, do you think?

[godslave]

I'm curious Braingel, in how would Fe manifest in this scenario. I think I'm Fi with 4 D Fe, but if you can, how would an Fe attitude show here, do you think?

In socionics we don't talk about attitude but about information. You have to think of all the Information aspects as data that can be detected only throught spoken or written language. For instance, when you read a text in this forum, you have to be able to identify the information aspects underlying the text i.e. not the meaning of what is written but rather which information aspect it conveys.

Is it an Fe information (about the internal energy of the object (often about Emotions and Mood)) ?

Is it an Ni information (about relations of events happening through a linear timeline (imagined and/or real)) ?

is it an Si Information (about relations of objects in space (their positions, Harmonious / disharmonious, Pleasing not pleasing, adequate/ inadequate, they go together well/ they don't go together well, Comfortable/uncomfortable contact between bodies (it coube be my body, yours, theirs, anybody it doesn't matter)) ?

etc...

Once you learn to identify Information Element, you'll have to learn how to localize them in the model. Whether the info stems from the Mental Ring (Ego / SuperEgo Blocks) or the Vital Ring (Id / Super-Id Blocks). In order to learn how to do that I encourage you to check out this site in which there is a whole methodology explained with example etc...

If you want to type seriously, you have to go through a certain learning curve. However before doing this and especially if you come from MBTI / OPS...

[Braingel]

I'm curious Braingel, in how would Fe manifest in this scenario. I think I'm Fi with 4 D Fe, but if you can, how would an Fe attitude show here, do you think?

Well to be honest, apart of why I asked in my questionnaire the duration and other things has do with that I don’t believe it is as simple as “Fe will react this way”.. Then when you throw shadows into this all, it’s actually FiNe and FiSe that will act histrionic and hysterical.. Especially if enneagram 4 at a 2 line.

That being said, an NeFi has an NiFe shadow. If you weee disintegrated into a shadow in that situation, you’d have a specific outlook and vision, likely a tunnel vision concerning how your father had formed you to perceive the world, how he then the kaleidoscope around and your own inherent stones (traits) being tossed around into a formation… The Fe would make yourself, given it’s positive, have emotional extremes of high and low, bursts of intense emotional displays that return to baseline quickly… And given it’s Fe+, it would with the right enneagram, focus too much on positively expressing… This is why some people don’t believe myself as IEI in G (plus they see me as detailed and thus process, even though I seek to simplify fundamentally. I’m just autistic), but that’s not wholly how Fe+ can manifest at all. It has primarily to do with emotional extremes..

Note: I treat model G entirely separate, as it’s more of a rigid archetype and speaks less to function outlooks internally and cognition, it’s about behavioral output.

Overall, I believe the inherent threshold had in a person for distress tolerance and negative circumstances, and the duration of the trauma and its type relative to how it would be traumatic to an individual (what is the worst trauma for me wouldn’t be for another person or for you)..

But in a typical Fe+ profile in behavioral models like G, it can probably mimic a sort of hypomania.. Going from screaming to yelling, even borderline personality. Especially in irrationals.

How I would imagine an enfp in an infj shadow is that they may feel compelled to a calling, but this vision would take form of an immature means, that isn’t actually directed for the betterment of the future, and it would lie to the enfp, that it is so…

[Braingel]

I still have a lot to write of my questionnaire. I don’t have enough time to get into everything, but I will do my best to finish it..As I said in my other post, I excluded a few types of trauma I’ve had pre-verbally and with my health (“vital” Si on the ladder). Starting with the health trauma: In 2022, I started to become very sick as the result of psychological breakdown, and from my mother having purposefully, yes, purposefully, given me COVID. You see, there was construction going on in our house.. I had begged my mother to place me with my grandfather or even in a hotel, as with my autism, I cannot bear the loudness of such things.. I was having a meltdown (sensory) when they were knocking things down in the house and was yelling and cussing.. My mother being “embarrassed” (mind you, even though one of the workers had an autistic son) had threatened to breathe in my face if I wouldn’t stop, and she knew she had Covid (yes, she had people in our house in spite, as she isn’t mindful like that).. I couldn’t stop, so she cornered myself to the library back bookcase (the whole wall is a book case) and breathed in my face and slapped me, for my inability to calm down and “embarrassing” her. I’ve gotten her confessing to this on video, but will not post it here.I developed sickness I believe from this activating the HLAB27 gene in me is tested for, positively… And extreme psychological stress that occurred from PTSD and oral ordeals.. I ensured significant medical gaslighting, as no one knew what was wrong with me, and I endured a plethora of misdiagnoses, until a very thorough ILI 5 core caught my rheumatoid arthritis, she was the only one who bothered to test for this, as you don’t tend develop such a thing until mid age… Even on the 16T discord, I was dealing with a lot of people just saying I’m being an “Si brake” eie and it further traumatized myself with further invalidation. This will have explanation later on, with why I reacted the way I did in that time on that server…The other medical trauma is that I broke my left front tooth at age 8, which to me, in my child perspective, even younger than 8 mentally due to autism, was like losing a finger. I hated the fake tooth and often grinder it against the surface of objects and I wanted get revenge on the woman connected to it.. I will later on get into this in the reaction categorization. Almost forgot to include this, but I nearly died at age 2, had go to an ER where they ruled out spinal meningitis with a spinal tap… I’d a 105 degree fever, which for a toddler, is even more lethal, as their body can lesser handle heat.At birth, my right clavicle had been broken by the suction.. My mother had induced me a week early, as she thought I’d be a hardy build as my father, when neither myself or my sister ended up being.. I didn’t want come out, so they had to rough handle me and fractured her pelvis (mother’s) and broke my collarbone/clavicle. It was unknown it was broken for 6+ weeks, so I was in agony as a newborn often.Whilst I bear no conscious memory of these means, I am sure the first few days of my existence pain harbors away deep into my unconscious and its reactions… There won’t be anyway to know definitively without a Time Machine or astral travel to the past, but it’s possible I faced molestation as an infant or two-year old. My father had hired two later on convicted pedophiles, that were around me often in that timeframe. I had started masturbating from memory by at least three, and it’s possible it embarked younger. The only memory I have is sitting on Zack’s lap when I was 3, in a sketcher’s with my father nearby, and he didn’t touch me inappropriately, but this is my only memory with him, and then in a restaurant vaguely. Kyle, the other pedophile, had been my volleyball coach when I was 8, and he was around me as a toddler and infant as well. I didn’t have any repulsion’s to him when he was my coach, however.I don’t believe Kyle or Zack’scrimes had do with prepubescent children though, I believe 14 was the age of one of the victims for Kyle. Whilst this is pedophilia, it is hard to say if they would do the same thing to a baby or toddler. I was also left alone once with my cousin Michael, who had sexual deviance and my mother’s friends’s other infant son, Christian. I sometimes have weird flashes of memory regarding him, but I can’t ever uncover it. There will never anytime soon be a direct, physical way to know if I’ve faced molestation. My uncle Rhea, a convicted lifelong felon https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangel...ctims-husband/, had been sexually suggestive to me once when I was 15, and he was around me as an infant and toddler… He had said I’ve a nice tight ass and wanted to take me to Victoria’s Secret to buy me yoga pants to show it off.Whilst he was sexual with me in that way, and I was afraid of him for different reasons with his reckless driving and untrustworthy personality, I never felt any repulsion from him or sexual feelings arouse. My sister, however, later on strangely enough said she was afraid of him raping her. She would’ve been 12 when he was around her a lot, so if she was afraid of him because he made comments, he was sexual with a 12 year old which is not fully pubescent. My cousin Chelsea, who had hit me, had been repeatedly molested as a baby with my aunt’s drug addict male friends. She has weird reactions to intercourse and has scarring in there. I’ve never had inter course so wouldn’t know, but when masturbating, sometimes I cry. Personality shifts I endured significant shifts in my personality— most notably at age 15, so much to a point that with my other symptoms (muscle spasms, icepick/suicide headaches, doctors suspected I’d a brain tumor and I was tested.I had never been violent in my life, not to any physical assault I had, including the choking, but at this age, I became more defiant towards my parents, and only my parents. I believe if this forced out of my to survive and with repeated nervous system flares, such as my sister charging at me, and then out of impulse when she was, I whipped my iPhone charger at her, and it left a bump on her head (which I got in extreme trouble for, and I didn’t even want to hurt her, merely defend myself).. Being so unaware with sensation and force, I’d no idea that I would land it that hard to a point of her injuring and it was a moment of reactive defense.. My father repeatedly sped and threatened to crash the car and kill is at this age, he started before, but it occurred in the highest frequency at this age, so much, I tried to run away from home.All 3 of my immediate family are 4D De types, which gets into the territory of a different question.. and they all forced aggression from myself… Anyhow, I have very important things that I’d like to share in documentation, as I believe they are educationalin terms of my gnarly personality shift, that resulted from extreme trauma and abuse..This will likely be the only component I continue today…https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a04c32a94be6e&

Whilst I showed significant emotional disturbance by age 13, starting at age 11, the full shift occurred at 15.

This again, was the age I tried running away from home.. My search history on my phone would’ve showed ways to conceal my autism, and also wikihow searches on how to successfully run away from home… As well as how to commit suicide without any pain.This was the age my threshold had been met, and I became an overflowing spout of water from the bucket I carried of all my traumatic baggage.

15 1/2 specifically… I had my first outpatient and inpatient psychiatric placement. For a lot of low line to 2 4 behaviors with attention seeking via self-harm… The inpatient unit had distressed me so much, I came out of it with vertigo for a week, with my perception being a continual spinning motion..I was living in a hyper ptsd state, as they medicated me with the pill my mother had placed in my food, and I had a serious reaction to that pill the day she bumped it to 10 Mg, with a headache that made me believe I was dying.My threshold was quite high, as by the time before I had this break, I had already faced routine (daily) emotional abuse in my household, sporadic occurrences of physical abuse throughout the months, daily mild to moderate bullying, isolated severe incidences of bullying (choking, plotting take my life).. At least one incidence of sexual abuse (I say one, because it’s possible I was molested as a baby or two-year old, and I have no way to know this for sure. And if you count what my father did as sexual abuse with the biting, then I had regular sexual abuse, but I don’t know how to classify it fully, it’s a breach of a sexual boundary, and is also physical). I’ve faced at least two sexual assaults, but the other one that happened 100% was after this age.It took a decade of trauma overtime to collapse me full-on..Prior to this shift, I had no aggression or paranoia towards my family. I still have no paranoia towards others outside of specific ptsd triggers and have never been physically aggressive towards anyone but my mother or father.I am incapable of immense physical aggression. Even with my parents, it has been object throws, pinching and slapping.. It is out of element for myself, and it is an emotional extreme push. When I was molested by a man named Tony, my mother’s friend (which yes, is pair personality shift), I turnt my arm and jerked it and I just froze, I couldn’t slap him.Whilst it was there by the time I had instagram (age 13, one month short of 14) with my expressiveness, as I begun to disintegrate into 2 at this age, I was not as histrionic until 15, and especially age 18. Maybe it’s the whole “personality disorder generally onsets by young adulthood”, as I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at age 17, even though I don’t believe I’ve it full-on and have cptsd with bpd features..As a child, I was more of a delta NF in behavioral models… There was nothing vastly beta about myself or Se valuing in general.. I’d have been typed by others, as something as EII-Ne or IEE-Fi, likely the former, with no ability to outwardly organize well (1D Te). I’d say at age 12-13 I started to get there, and by 15, my behavior fully shifted into Beta. I was the embodiment of dreamy fairy girl who keeps in her own bubble, creates alternate worlds in her own sphere, and fantasizes having one close friend.I will complete other portions in this post later on; themes and I’ll add a parental background categorization…. I will also have to finish my shadow shift later on, as I have to go.. I will edit this post and add in more at a later time.Quickly, though people are probably wondering how I had so much trauma, aaaaand.. To simplify, autism. Autism with dysfunctional family dynamic on extended both sides, which placed me into further positions to face more traumatization. I’ll build on this in a separate category. Combined with an atypically that others pathologize and treated as an illness.

I’d made a bunch of typos that I’ll later on address. I’ve to say, that I have so much trauma, I haven’t even captured all my trauma, and I wouldn’t be able to, because if I went into every single familial dysfunction dynamic between my mother, father, sister and myself, and also the dysfunction on both sides of my family, with Reha (the convicted felon, he is the only one who got charged, but there are other felons in my family, including my parents for specific abuses that had occurred, and tons of misdemeanors, and most notably my meth addicted aunt and rapist uncles on my mother’s side, and my father’s deceased dad that I never got meet, as he passed of liver failure before I was born from alcohol abuse)..

I wish I could simplify, but there is just so much trauma, that I can’t even write it all out in just one or two posts….

I forgot say, if I did write out every family dynamic, there would be like 50 posts, and no one is going to read that, and I wouldn’t even bother with that, unless I was writing a biography that would be published.

Believe me when I say this is the “short” version, and I haven’t even gotten into much detail or specifics for certain forms, only the core ones I gave more to just break it down easier.

In total, my family including both sides, has a total of at least 8 felons, and only one has been convicted. My aunt did face jail time, but she didn’t get charged for her substance abuse or for the neglect that resulted in my cousin to die and have resuscitate. I say at least, because it’s likely that there are more than two rapists in my family generational chain, but there are only two I know about (grandpa’s brother and some other distant one). And there are more child abusers in my family chain without a doubt, than just my mother and father, aunt, great grandma, uncle, and my father’s father. My grandfather and grandma were abusive, but not to a level of being a felon. And it’s likely there is more illicit drug use than just my aunt and her children.

My family is essentially a classical case of generational abuse, and two abused children marrying one another as adults. My mother and father married after 6 weeks of knowing and had a 17 year age gap with her being 25 and he being 42.

List of felonies on my family, though, when my great grandma was alive, it may not have been considered a “felony” officially, and with my father’s father, he was in Istanbul, which has a different set of laws (my father after all, said stoning a person to death was legal in the time he grew up there in the 1950’s, yes, he is a baby boomer born in 1956, and had me and my sister super late).. So it’s equivalence in those cases.Note: how I heard about the case of my grandma’s childhood is from my mother, so it’s from her own reporting to myself, but likely to be accurate.

Father: physical abuse of a child that caused injury, I really don’t know the intent my father had in doing this or if he would’ve been charged, but potentially sexual abuse of a child, because he never bit my breast or genitalia, but the love biting thing outlined in the first post..

Mother: Blackmail out of reporting molest, forcing a lie to child protective services, lying to police officers to hide the molestReha: his own is already documented by news and law, so it’s not really necessary to write it out:https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangel...ctims-husband/

Grandpa’s brother: child rapist of my former meth addicted aunt (who went on to do felon-tier things as a means to try and cope with the rape and moderate emotional abuse she faced from my grandparents)

Aunt: neglect of a child that resulted in her death (she was resuscitated), meth use and giving to her minor children. She went to jail for this specific thing, but wasn’t convicted. She lost custody of my cousin and got court ordered rehab…

Father’s father: domestic violence, severe physical damage to a child (damaged my father’s vision). He abused Reha as well, he made both of them develop sociopathic tendencies, but I don’t know to which extent Rehabwas abused or if he was injured. My father claimed reha was more favored as a son… I know they both witnessed their mother (my paternal grandma) get beaten and bloody in front of them a few times

Great grandmother (maternal): Severe abuse and neglect to children.. I don’t know if she committed other crimes in additionDistant relative related to grandfather: child rapist of my cousin

Why have I had so much trauma?

I write this out, because a few people have been skeptical about my childhood and thought it was exaggeratory… The answer lies in that it’s a case where *both* my parents come from extreme dysfunctional and abusive backgrounds, married in a dysfunctional dynamic, and then, I just had to be autistic in addition, which predisposes a lot of maltreatment from peers and even adults if the individual isn’t planted in the right soil and treated tenderly.It is a chain effect; my parents decide to marry out of their own dysfunctional dynamics, they have myself and my sister.. I am autistic and find myself in the scapegoat dynamic, and both my parents were raised in a dysfunctional schema where there were scapegoats (my father claims he was the one in his, my aunt Lori, the one who was method addicted, was my mother’s side)..

This alone subjects me to torment from my extended family members who always get the trash talking of myself and the exclusion of their own misdeeds to myself, and puts me in a position of extreme invalidation which I already deal with severely, as an autistic person who has a different perspective from the collective because of theory of mind differences.. And then my family doesn’t take my needs seriously and they abuse me, and not taking my needs seriously and gratifying their own ego, place me in educational systems I am destined be bullied in, and put me in sports, stripping oriented front natural gifts in storytelling and reading..

I face a lot of bullying for my athletic incompetence and eventually, not being able wear a bra.. And get bullied tremendously in the public setting, with delays in developments, peculiar behavior and not getting social norms or keeping up with peers..

Parents’ toxic friend choice gets me sexually abused, their upbringing attracts them to unhealthful people.. Abd they’re both poor arbiters of character judgment.

From all the maltreatment, I have psychiatric breakdowns and get put in psych wards where I’m traumatized and I get abused in one of my three childhood residential.. Then I develop health conditions from all the shit and flared nervous system and face stigma for a diagnosis I received that’s related to child abuse and trauma. I become an object of peoples’ pleasure to harass, throw around and beat up. Mother medicated food at age 14 prior to breakdown.

Once I am seen as object, it goes downhill and I become the possession of those who hold me and take further damage and abuse.

[necrosebud]

I may have had what might be defined as "sexual assault" (not rape), but I was not traumatized from them. There was one though that made upset when it was happening. But it overall does not affect me

here's the YPI scores if relevant, haven't looked up how to interpret them yetScreenshot 2024-05-28 at 12.00.34 PM.png

[Braingel]

I may have had what might be defined as "sexual assault" (not rape), but I was not traumatized from them. There was one though that made upset when it was happening. But it overall does not affect me

here's the YPI scores if relevant, haven't looked up how to interpret them yetScreenshot 2024-05-28 at 12.00.34 PM.png

What caused me more harm from sexual assault was being invalidated, gaslit, blackmailed out of reporting and how I was made out after it occurred. Likely because this triggers my earlier childhood wounds where my cptsd is its most vulnerable.

By far, the emotional abuse (primarily from father and school peers), but also other family) affected me more than the physical abuse or sexual abuse. I don’t know if it’s because it is the trauma that happened the most overtime and started the youngest. Formative year trauma tends be more tolling.

[necrosebud]

I was also left alone once with my cousin Michael, who had sexual deviance and my mother’s friends’s other infant son, Christian. I sometimes have weird flashes of memory regarding him, but I can’t ever uncover it. There will never anytime soon be a direct, physical way to know if I’ve faced molestation. My uncle Rhea, a convicted lifelong felon https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangel...ctims-husband/, had been sexually suggestive to me once when I was 15, and he was around me as an infant and toddler… He had said I’ve a nice tight ass and wanted to take me to Victoria’s Secret to buy me yoga pants to show it off.

that's really creepy and concerning

[Braingel]

I also want to clarify that when I say there was no way to know if I’ve faced molestation in that context, I meant preverbal (I showed signs, such as precocity in vivid masturbation). I was molested 4 1/2 years ago, and I was sexually abused at age 14, but it wasn’t molest. Now if you consider what my father did to me as sexual abuse, he did this from infancy to 15, with the love biting. But he never bit my breast or genitalia, and I do not want to assume his motivations, because it is unlikely he was being sexual if he never involved my breasts or my vagina.

I had asked @myresearch if this is a cultural thing in Istanbul, where my father was brought up, and she said no. But my father is a baby boomer who had me in his 40’s and my sister… He is 30 something years older then MYR, so I don’t know if she would’ve answered accurately for his time.

My best theory is that there was a pedophile somewhere in the line of my father’s side as well, given my uncle showed sexual behavior towards myself and it appears he did my sister for her to be afraid he’d rape her, my father’s behavior, and my mother said she watched my grandma do what my father did to me as an infant. But she said stomach, didn’t say anything of butt or thighs for grandma.

I don’t know who the pedophile would be, as I don’t know my father’s side well, as they’re based in Istanbul. But even if my father wasn’t sexual in his intent, he could’ve learnt that was normal and not have seen it as sexual.

In case I never needed it for a legal situation though, I had gotten a video of my mother admitting it happened… And when she confessed to this, this is how I learnt my grandma was doing it to my stomach:https://youtu.be/BY1SJI5WZu0?si=axNArMOkYvOfJF2N

I hadn’t uploaded that to my YouTube. It’s a good thing I did now in case I lost it, because it’s very important.. But I am not going to make this video public, because this is the kind of video that can ruin someone’s life, and I sincerely cannot say if my father had the actual intent to sexually abuse/use my body for sexual gratification. It seemed more like “play”, but the matter is that even if he didn’t know, it is inappropriate to do to a child when they are naked in puberty.

Acted upon, scheming pedophilia is a completely separate category of crime and intent. I do not want to believe or accuse my father of being a pedophile, especially when it wasn’t my breast or vagina he bit.

My mother did find him looking at 18 and 19 year olds sexually on his phone once (she told him she’s very uncomfortable with it), but this was legal. It seems that if he was actually a pedophile, he is trying do things legally with legal age and with never having bit my vagina or breasts (still probably isn’t legal to bite a child’s nubile body like that, it would definitely have made me removed from the home by a social worker if they knew)

But his intent, I cannot comment on. For one thing, I really don’t know his culture. And MYR said it isn’t a thing there, but my father lived there 30+ years before her (I believe myr is 32, unless she turnt 33 since which is likely, because I think she’s an Aquarius). Then he always stayed clear of my vagina and my breasts.. Even when he bit marks on me, on my butt and my stomach.

What I can say is that his brother (the one in prison) has been sexual with me verbally and tried get me to show in lewd yoga pants at 15, and my sister some years later said she was afraid of him raping her, which means he probably made suggestive comments at her when she was a 12 year old, a not fully pubescent child. And that my Grenada was biting my stomach as an infant, which maybe isn’t that weird… But it’s weird to do to a teenager with developed D cup breasts also being exposed (father).

[Braingel]

What caused me more harm from sexual assault was being invalidated, gaslit, blackmailed out of reporting and how I was made out after it occurred. Likely because this triggers my earlier childhood wounds where my cptsd is its most vulnerable.

By far, the emotional abuse (primarily from father and school peers), but also other family) affected me more than the physical abuse or sexual abuse. I don’t know if it’s because it is the trauma that happened the most overtime and started the youngest. Formative year trauma tends be more tolling.

I see enneagram as both genetic and environmental. In me being an enneagram 4, I want say that I was born with extreme emotional sensitivity and an introverted propensity, that which when distressed and traumatized enough, would become emotionally reactive (reactive triad), and the way I was raised had do with a lot of image worth issues, such as being invalidated by my family and called names like a “worthless piece of shit” and “stupid girl”..

At the very making of my childhood, my first complex emotions were shame and envy.

An introvert when stressed will actually become very extroverted behaviorally, which is a common misconception others have about introverts being the contained ones under stress. It’s actually the extroverts who are in specific ways… I mean think of it logically, extroverts have way more control, with a base and lead in an extroversive way… The forefront of their conscious. I also believe it’s a gross misconception that sensors are the ones who react aggressively.. Maybe physically, but in an emotional mean, intuitive have very little control over their Se…

It is an intuitive who is going to be overwhelmed by an impulse triggering in them and not be able to act on or process it healthfully, and it would manifest in immature ways. When I’ve been physically aggressive, it has manifested like a child throwing an object immaturely.. Or just screaming and crying loudly and being so overwhelmed by it, I squeezed my mother or father.

Note: this would be Jung, John Beebe and enneagram where introverts get more histrionic than extroverts when pathological (enneagram 4 is an introvert generally as is 5. They go to two of the most extroverted types under stress; 2 and 7).

Going back to my four formation.. I believe that it is my high sensitivity (HSP), autistic differences, being less adaptive and focused inside intensively (mbti FiNe) and the way I was raised in my first years with shame and worth means, put me into being a 4.

If you think about grip states, then INFJ and INTJ would be the most impulsive types under stress.. They just wouldn’t be able to exert physical force like an ESTP or an ESFP..

Going back to my core point in of this writing, with me as a socially led heart type, whether others acknowledge my emotions is determining largely of my emotional reactions. I am exceedingly sensitive to when others dismiss *my* own personal feelings, my own experiences, my own identity, my qualities of myself I value and want others see in myself, and react when this doesn’t happen. Invalidation fundamentally stabs me right in the heart of my core outlooks and emotional processing, leading it to deep traumatization and by others, perceived incongruent reactions.


With my reactive aggression, this also gets into a point with me being a 4 core and intuitive with weakened Se. I am orally aggressive, which is actually a trait of enneagram 4. I have no force or active volition, being disconnected from my gut center and having weakened Se, and my verbal aggression and reactions are a compensation to my lacking of.

Now with the high sensitivity.. I actually understand why Claudio Naranjo correlated borderline personality to 4, even though I believe 6 core and 268 2 core can just as easily have this condition. Borderline is a deeply sensitive, empathic temperament that faces chronic invalidation and dismissal of its own emotions, which can take form if mismatched caregivers and clashing personalities, to something as extreme as sexual abuse, which often accompanies intensive invalidation. And triggering over being invalidated can be largely of the heart. However, I can also see 6’s reacting this way if they actually doubt and react this way to avoid more identity disturbance turmoil.

[Squirrel]

Such an interesting and uncomfortable thread, it's hard to answer tbh becauseI don't really focus on my traumas or think about it, I barely know it , but I'll talk about what I know

ExI mother and IxxP father

I remember two very bad situations that my mother did to me :

1- she once claimed that she would sell me and my sister to other people if we didn't help her with the housework , I don't really know why did she tell us this because we basically helped her a lot when we were little kids

2- she once was very angry with me , so she grabbed the knife and threatened to kill herself because of me

Anyway, I don't see any effect of this on me : no attachment problems, no fear of abandonment or similar things, so I doubt that the effect of this was more than momentary ( if there was an effect in the first place, I don't remember )

Apart from these two situations, I still doubt that I have trauma or abuse from my parents, since they are very supportive

I have a trait that I'm not sure whether it's related to trauma from educational system (because the system always forces us to "memorize the answers as they are" and any deviation from the text or lack of it reduces grades ) or it's from a function , I always seek to give the most accurate and comprehensive answer possible , I discovered this through my sister when she asked me about the time, I answered her in an estimated way , then re-answered accurately in minutes, she told me that she always feels as if I was answering exam questions not a simple ordinary question, then I thought about it and paid attention to this , I also noticed this when I was answering SCS questionnaire

The only trauma I'm sure of , and I really needed time to recover from was the need to stay alone in an environment that I couldn't adapt to at all
Normally, new environments don't scare me at all and I adapt to them easily , but this time it was different : I had one thing that worried me about the new environment when I moved in : making new friends

Even with the ability to easily make superficial friends and acquaintances , I couldn't do the same with deeper friendships, I'm fully aware that I can't evaluate friendships : is it right for me or not ? is it real or not ? will it be continuos or not ?, since I entered school, the only friendship that worked for me and actually lasted was my mother's choice and not my choice , all my choices were failures and caused me problems
I wondered that all this inability was due to a trauma caused by an old friend from early elementary school , she accompanied me for a while and then accused me of something naive and left me to befriend another girl , but even years after this incident I was still able to make friends and acquaintances, as long as the close friendship that my mother chose for me was around
So , the problem started when I moved to a new school far from my old school and needed to rebuild friendships from scratch
I didn't want to start with only superficial acquaintances , I wanted only one close and deep friendship and I rushed into it , and when I failed , I had
depression, I lacked the ability to study, I distracted myself with my newly purchased mobile phone and with sleep , I also expressed extreme anger , hatred, considering the world a "forest" and survival is for the strongest, and so on

In the second year I got a close friend, a problem was solved, but other problems continued besides an additional problem : the supervisor of the class hated me for a reason I don't know , she also caused me problems with my family , when my mother talked to her on the phone after a situation and blamed her for a problem , she shouted at her and said to her : you're saying this instead of thanking me? - I don't know what exactly to thank her for lol
also my grades got really bad and I passed with the help of the teachers

Anyway, I moved to another school two years later , on the first day of the new school I met a friend and I was living as nothing happened , this year and the year after it were the recovery years , I didn't succeed academically because I got an extra trauma: fear of studying, before high school I was never afraid of an exam, but after this experience I had a prior frustration: I formed a conviction that there was no need to try again , I would fail like every time , I also did some other things as a kind of vent for the accumulated psychological pain

Anyway, it's all over and I recovered from almost everything when I entered college, everything I went through is no longer a problem for me, maybe I still have something of fear of the exam but it's not that bad, my grades and studies have improved a lot at the college and I'm on the way to being in the top ten at the college, I aspire to be one of the top three though
I now have a lot of friends again, and I've given up on the idea of a one best friend given the amount of damage it's done to me , my friends are really good and enough

[Muira]

I'd like to try this out, but I wouldn't want to make it public. is it okay if I PM it to you @Braingel ?

I was also very sorry for what you've been through, that family just seems very off

[Squirrel]

I also grew up around a sister that I used to type as Beta NF , but after reading your notes about the ignoring function, I think she is probably going through something similar, she is E4 anyway and I have a personal belief that E4 and especially with a social instinct in the instinctual stack will show something of a very negative Fe , which may cause mistyping as Beta NF
we don't agree with each others really , but I learned a lot about myself from my discussions with her

Also, a brother I don't know his type, I hang out with him very rarely, mostly when he wants to help with cooking or when he asks for my help in doing something

As for my type, I don't know it
Ennneagram 9 , 952 probably , I'm sure of 5 and 2 fix , I'm not sure about the gut center (core), I was confused between 9 and 8, but probably no E8 talks about his suffering, while I'm a little open to talking about it online ، also I have known a lot of E8 in my life and I don't have the same orientation to stay in control and so on as them
my current confusion is between 1 and 9 , I want to do more research

[Muira]

I also grew up around a sister that I used to type as Beta NF , but after reading your notes about the ignoring function, I think she is probably going through something similar, she is E4 anyway and I have a personal belief that E4 and especially with a social instinct in the instinctual stack will show something of a very negative Fe , which may cause mistyping as Beta NF
we don't agree with each others really , but I learned a lot about myself from my discussions with her

Also, a brother I don't know his type, I hang out with him very rarely, mostly when he wants to help with cooking or when he asks for my help in doing something

As for my type, I don't know it
Ennneagram 9 , 952 probably , I'm sure of 5 and 2 fix , I'm not sure about the gut center (core), I was confused between 9 and 8, but probably no E8 talks about his suffering, while I'm a little open to talking about it online ، also I have known a lot of E8 in my life and I don't have the same orientation to stay in control and so on as them
my current confusion is between 1 and 9 , I want to do more research

If you need help, e8 is more linked to Se base, e9 for Si base. E1 is LXE in SCS overall

[necrosebud]

tbf the more I have understood (or what I can of it, its only online) of what you might be experiencing, psychologically speaking, the more I realized I internalized this scathing toxic voice that is all too easy to pick up online and that it was not fair (towards me or anyone similar)

based on your family dynamics, I would be surprised if someone did not come out somewhat messed up, regardless of their "temperament" whatever that really means, I am beginning to question that. Incipient personality potential? Sort of co-determined by basic child development? How would we even disentangle them

[Braingel]

I'd like to try this out, but I wouldn't want to make it public. is it okay if I PM it to you @Braingel ?

I was also very sorry for what you've been through, that family just seems very off

Sure, you can email me.. This Dm format on the forum sucks.. And yeah, my family is exceedingly dysfunctional. The root on my mother’s side is pedophilia and substance abuse that broke their family and toxic use of Christianity, and then with my father, it was an abusive alcoholic father and I’d also say it was their culture, as Istanbul borders the Middle East and is known for violence. As I said, my father knew of people being stoned to death in his time there. There is also very likely a pedophile on my father’s side, but I know little about my father’s side, other than my grandma (who wasn’t abusive, but had toxic emotional behavior that resulted in her being divorced and remarried the abuser), his father of what he’s told me, Reha, my father of course and I know of one distant womanizer guy who is a pathological liar, I don’t know his name’s spelling, but it’s pronounced “Murot/ Maurott”.

My Bf is very good at VI, he looked at my family and typed them all 4D Se.. (I don’t believe you can type alone by VI, but he typed every one of them correct). I have always typed most of my extended family the same, and even all of my immediate family is 4D Se. Which may have a role in why Q thought I have 4D Se.. I have been raised around all 4D Se and I got put into all 4D Se active. Volleyball is exceedingly Se, running can be Se and Si.. Swimming is Si/Se, but the way they put me in it competitively is Se, having to track how fast others are going..

I before wrote out how I believe a lack of Ni in my family has had a role in the abuse passing on, and how it’s a gift that I have 4D Ni in this dynamic.

[Muira]

Sure, you can email me.. This Dm format on the forum sucks.. And yeah, my family is exceedingly dysfunctional. The root on my mother’s side is pedophilia and substance abuse that broke their family and toxic use of Christianity, and then with my father, it was an abusive alcoholic father and I’d also say it was their culture, as Istanbul borders the Middle East and is known for violence. As I said, my father knew of people being stoned to death in his time there. There is also very likely a pedophile on my father’s side, but I know little about my father’s side, other than my grandma (who wasn’t abusive, but had toxic emotional behavior that resulted in her being divorced and remarried the abuser), his father of what he’s told me, Reha, my father of course and I know of one distant womanizer guy who is a pathological liar, I don’t know his name’s spelling, but it’s pronounced “Murot/ Maurott”.

My Bf is very good at VI, he looked at my family and typed them all 4D Se.. I have always typed most of my extended family the same, and even all of my immediate family is 4D Se. Which may have a role in why Q thought I have 4D Se.. I have been raised around all 4D Se and I got put into all 4D Se active. Volleyball is exceedingly Se, running can be Se and Si.. Swimming is Si/Se, but the way they put me in it competitively is Se, having to track how fast others are going..

Not even


My mother's tribe, while muslim, etc, often segregates girls from boys. And it would be inappropriate for a father to be so touchy with his own daughters. Heck I don't even kiss my own dad at all and never will.

Often, cultures like that often are ironically heretical justifications for the wrong actions. Even if there are executions, and might be done publicly, it should be and has been done far away of children or the sensitive.

They can argue "culture" all they want, but it's objective that those actions often lead to sexual abuse, etc, which is considered outside sexual norms globally.

[Braingel]

Not even


My mother's tribe, while muslim, etc, often segregates girls from boys. And it would be inappropriate for a father to be so touchy with his own daughters. Heck I don't even kiss my own dad at all and never will.

Often, cultures like that often are ironically heretical justifications for the wrong actions. Even if there are executions, and might be done publicly, it should be and has been done far away of children or the sensitive.

They can argue "culture" all they want, but it's objective that those actions often lead to sexual abuse, etc, which is considered outside sexual norms globally.

I don’t disagree, but if it is actually cultural and normal, I do believe it mitigates responsibility on the offender (because the intent may not have actually been to cause harm consciously).. This doesn’t mean you accept the behavior, but it would mean that the offender is less punishable. Which is why I’m in a grey area with my father for this. He didn’t bite my vagina or breasts, but he did my nubile body and buttocks.. Until age 15. His mother apparently did this to me according to my mother as an infant.. And whilst what my uncle said to myself and I am assuming he said to my sister given she was afraid of being raped, that’s definite pedophilia, especially in her own case, because she was 12. I know that their culture has different views on sex and the age of consent is lower, but it doesn’t excuse this. My uncle was behaving pedophilic, but I don’t know if he acted physically on anyone. He’s in prison for holding a woman ransom, though, at gunpoint.

[Braingel]

I don’t honestly know if my father’s behavior and actions with that specific form of abuse, is fairly punishable. Because I can’t measure his intent. However, this doesn’t undo that his behavior made me have damaging behaviors and views of my body. It doesn’t mitigate the impact upon me. And my father definitely had punishable behaviors for his physical and verbal and emotional abuse. I would’ve loved to see him rehabilitated, given he was an abused child himself and for him to acknowledge all the pain he’s done me and be the father he should have been. I crave this deeply, and to live for his atoning of damage and comforting the trauma he’s resulted… I hate that he isn’t doing this and dismisses the pain. I have a great deal of hatred within me for his actions, not necessarily his fundamental essence and concept, even though it sometimes grabs up and pulls as a hating himself full. When the tide is high and I can’t see his self below from my own sea of emotions and just swimming in them trying survive.

Sometimes his gaslighting makes me want him punished, but if my father genuinely apologized to me, confessed publicly to his misdeeds and abuse and lived a life of redemption, I would forgive my father, but never forget and would keep a certain distance until he became a new person.

[Muira]

I don’t disagree, but if it is actually cultural and normal, I do believe it mitigates responsibility on the offender (because the intent may not have actually been to cause harm consciously).. This doesn’t mean you accept the behavior, but it would mean that the offender is less punishable. Which is why I’m in a grey area with my father for this. He didn’t bite my vagina or breasts, but he did my nubile body and buttocks.. Until age 15. His mother apparently did this to me according to my mother as an infant.. And whilst what my uncle said to myself and I am assuming he said to my sister given she was afraid of being raped, that’s definite pedophilia, especially in her own case, because she was 12. I know that their culture has different views on sex and the age of consent is lower, but it doesn’t excuse this. My uncle was behaving pedophilic, but I don’t know if he acted physically on anyone. He’s in prison for holding a woman ransom, though, at gunpoint.

Indeed.

Your uncle should stay in jail, deserves it.

For your Father, now I presume you grew up in the US, thus they should have looked into and adapted to the customs of the US like a normal person.

But hopefully the next generation won't face this.

Sent the email But through a personal email

[Braingel]

Yeah, I was thinking about how he would’ve had to adapt.. But it still in my opinion would mitigate criminal responsibility. The thing with my father though, is he had kids in his forties. So, he had more than two decades to work on his abusive childhood… I see the twenties as the time to shed toxicity, especially on the case of an abused child. For an abused child, the twenties are probably the most important years on if someone goes on to be an abuser or not, if they’ve the potential to pass it on.. As your brain prunes behaviors it doesn’t use and fuses the ones that are still there. He should’ve been working on himself in his twenties. But society in general doesn’t view the twenties as it should be and especially in child abuse, so.. It isn’t like my father would’ve had an incentive towards this and he was working on building his adult career and fucking around.. Which I’m not saying this shouldn’t occur, but in the instance of child abuse, it determines in my view, if someone with abusive potential solidifies this way.

I would say that roughly ages 20-29 is the time that matters most in a person predisposed to being abusive, if they had an abusive childhood and learnt abusive schemas therein.

[Muira]

Yeah, I was thinking about how he would’ve had to adapt.. But it still in my opinion would mitigate criminal responsibility. The thing with my father though, is he had kids in his forties. So, he had two decades to work on his abusive childhood… I see the twenties as the time to shed toxicity, especially on the case of an abused child. For an abused child, the twenties are probably the most important years on if someone goes on to be an abuser or not, if they’ve the potential to pass it on.. As your brain prunes behaviors it doesn’t use and fuses the ones that are still there. He should’ve been working on himself in his twenties. But society in general doesn’t view the twenties as it should be and especially in child abuse, so.. It isn’t like my father would’ve had an incentive towards this and he was working on building his adult career and fucking around.. Which I’m not saying this shouldn’t occur, but in the instance of child abuse, it determines in my view, if someone with abusive potential solidifies this way.

I would say that roughly ages 20-29 is the time that matters most in a person predisposed to being abusive, if they had an abusive childhood and learnt abusive schemas therein.

Well regardless of culture, typology in general helps us self reflect a lot.

Do you still communicate with your dad?

[Braingel]

Well regardless of culture, typology in general helps us self reflect a lot.

Do you still communicate with your dad?

Unfortunately yes, and I get gaslit a lot. I try my best to minimize interactions, but sometimes it’s not fully possible. I’ll get to your email on a bit of time..

[Muira]

Unfortunately yes, and I get gaslit a lot. I try my best to minimize interactions, but sometimes it’s not fully possible.

Have you tried to get him to read John Beebe's or Carl Jung's works? To maybe help him see himself for hat he truly is?

[Braingel]

Have you tried to get him to read John Beebe's or Carl Jung's works? To maybe help him see himself for hat he truly is?

I have made my mother read a bit of enneagram 2 (Naranjo and RH). She rejected she’s anything like the Naranjo 2, which… Is typical for a core 2, with their pride focus, not wanting accept themselves as being unlovable, and Naranjo’s work gets far into the dysfunctional schemas…. She recognized herself in gentler Riso Hudson. She is an ESE and their description is also more geared to this, Naranjo’s is more SEE and EIE. She actually has picked up a bit of my typology books and skimmed them, and accurately typed herself ESFJ.

I have also tried showing my sister she’s a 6.. And her bf, he’s a 9. I have drew up charts of my parental interactions and how all the dysfunction has occurred in a sphere of the enneagram, much as it’s a circular symbol.. Later on, I can post some of this..

[Braingel]

Her blackmailing behavior is directly an 8 line. And it triggered when it became in jeopardy of her not having the image of a loving, caring person and mother came into the light.. And probably she felt she failed and didn’t want accept I was molested. She also with my father often says I make her feel like an awful person who married an abuser, and she doesn’t “like” it. She before said it would have go over her dead body, for the public to know certain things and details about our family dysfunction.

And with her being a core rejectionist and positive outlook, she can’t fathom how I with my own style (4) latch unto my trauma and effortlessly analyze and brood it upon. She always says her and I see things in a different light, and this is true; her image is tarnished with her own positive outlook and pride. It is true I focus more on the negative of my family than positive, as well. I’ve had some “good” times with my family. My mother emphasizes these. Going into pride preservation to maintain her own worth.

[Muira]

I have made my mother read a bit of enneagram 2 (Naranjo and RH). She rejected she’s anything like the Naranjo 2, which… Is typical for a core 2, with their pride focus, not wanting accept themselves as being unlovable, and Naranjo’s work gets far into the dysfunctional schemas…. She recognized herself in gentler Riso Hudson. She is an ESE and their description is also more geared to this, Naranjo’s is more SEE and EIE.

I have also tried showing my sister she’s a 6.. I have drew up charts of my parental interactions and how all the dysfunction has occurred in a sphere of the enneagram, much as it’s a circular symbol.. Later on, I can post some of this..

Interesting, this must be difficult, but at least good that they are somewhat looking into their own issues.

I'd say Naranjo's e2 seems just Fe base, but sx2 being particularly more chaotic, but almost sx8 even.

What subtype would you type her with?

[Muira]

Did you also get my email?