Dealing With Insane Gamma Parent

[DEAD]

Ever since I made my theread about my Gamma Dad (VERY unhealthy Gamma NT), things have gotten worse. He has become more close-minded and moralistic since then.

- He has started to make everything come down to "morals", and a lot of things are "evil" to him.
- He over moralises and it’s annoying. He thinks he has a right to do whatever he wants because he misinterpreted something years ago.
- He tries to micromanage everything, even when I try and push him away and tell him to go away.
- He has one standard for himself, and another for everyone else and when you point it out, he tries to argue with you and say that you're wrong.
- He contradicts himself a lot. He tells you to do something, but he does the opposite (e.g. today he told me to get ready for something, and I told him it was too early and when I did go and do it, he blocked me at the door and prolonged me more to argue his null point with me.
- He needs to have an opinion on everything, and starts to spout off random shit in the car or when you're doing something near him.
- He thinks people give a shit about what he has to say and that his opinions are important and superior. They’re not. They’re just run of the mill things.
- He fights and argues with my Mom a lot and tries to star fights when he feels disrespected, and even when people don't provoke him.

He has bouts of being "normal" and "nice" but they're getting more farther away, so how do I cope with him? Before you write a snarky comment like "move out lol", I'm working on that. I am working on saving up enough money for that, so what can I do in the meantime to cope when I have to be around him? I do try to avoid him as much as I can when he's being like that, but it's difficult when he gets up your ass and into yoiur face and provokes you. So, any advice for living with him for now?

[Adam Strange]

In my opinion, life is all about figuring out what things you are willing to put up with from other people, and what things you aren't.

I had a violent narcissistic mother who tried to control everything about my life, including what I was allowed to say and think. She would emphasize her opinions with a punch to the face. She broke my sister's cheekbone by hitting her in the face with a wood-soled shoe.
I figured out early that my own mother didn't love me, or my sisters, or probably anyone, for that matter. She didn't love us, but instead we had a deal with her; We did everything she asked and we got to live there. Because I was in grade school and couldn't leave, I had to find a way to compromise.
She did tell me in fourth grade to get the hell out of her house, packed my suitcase for me, and threw me out. I had to beg to stay, because I knew that I would die on my own.
This moral compromise that I made, in the face of overwhelming threats, was to suppress my feelings at all costs, and it made my life similar to that of concentration camp prisoners. I'm still dealing with that today.

I don't recommend my solution to you, because the compromises that I made, while the best I could do at the time, resulted in my hating my mother with a deep passion for the rest of her life, and this didn't really hurt her at all; it merely fucked up my emotional state whenever I thought of her. In other words, my failure to take better control of my situation only hurt me.

In my defense, I will say that, when I was growing up, not many grade-school age kids had much in the way of psychological resources, but that is changing.

Let's look at your situation.

Your father is becoming increasingly abusive to you, probably with the intention of getting you to leave his house.
You say that you are not able or willing to leave his house, but you don't like the fact that he's giving you a hard time.

Maybe you should sit down with him and ask him what he'd like you to do, and then try to find a way for both of you to get what you want.

[Expansion]

Present to him your goals and intentions, and try to work with the authority if you can, and avoid confrontation. Ask him if he is OK with a leave time- line, and that should stop the triggers you are seeing. With the proviso that he's mentally OK, and that includes sobriety, if that even plays into it.

[DEAD]

In my opinion, life is all about figuring out what things you are willing to put up with from other people, and what things you aren't.

I had a violent narcissistic mother who tried to control everything about my life, including what I was allowed to say and think. She would emphasize her opinions with a punch to the face. She broke my sister's cheekbone by hitting her in the face with a wood-soled shoe.
I figured out early that my own mother didn't love me, or my sisters, or probably anyone, for that matter. She didn't love us, but instead we had a deal with her; We did everything she asked and we got to live there. Because I was in grade school and couldn't leave, I had to find a way to compromise.
She did tell me in fourth grade to get the hell out of her house, packed my suitcase for me, and threw me out. I had to beg to stay, because I knew that I would die on my own.
This moral compromise that I made, in the face of overwhelming threats, was to suppress my feelings at all costs, and it made my life similar to that of concentration camp prisoners. I'm still dealing with that today.

I don't recommend my solution to you, because the compromises that I made, while the best I could do at the time, resulted in my hating my mother with a deep passion for the rest of her life, and this didn't really hurt her at all; it merely fucked up my emotional state whenever I thought of her. In other words, my failure to take better control of my situation only hurt me.

In my defense, I will say that, when I was growing up, not many grade-school age kids had much in the way of psychological resources, but that is changing.

Let's look at your situation.

Your father is becoming increasingly abusive to you, probably with the intention of getting you to leave his house.
You say that you are not able or willing to leave his house, but you don't like the fact that he's giving you a hard time.

Maybe you should sit down with him and ask him what he'd like you to do, and then try to find a way for both of you to get what you want.

Yeah, I don't tolerate a lot of fools and stupid people now. I don't tolerate a lot of crap from them. I prefer to have my own company, do shit by myself and not have people interfere with my shit. I get easily annoyed when people start to interfere with things.

But yeah, I try to compromise but avoid him as much as I can. My Dad tries to be controlling in a way, but I stand up for myself. He tries to find ways to squeeze more money out of me, and I refuse to let him do that. I need to save up as much as I can, I need to have a headstart on things. He's got worse in the last ten years, and he was less severe before. He thinks that he can "judge people", like God. He can't do that. He is just a dumb human, like the rest of us, by that line of thinking. He just rambles, and a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Compromising is becoming harder with him. He seems to be becoming needier, and he doesn't have to be needier. He has what he needs to survive, just about. He thinks that his job he does is "ethical", but he needs to make more money from it. He needs to market himself more, and be more visible to make more money. If you try and tell him that, he thinks it's compromising, in a way. But you gotta compromise your vision for cash at times. You have to be ruthless if you want to make money in your own business like that.

But yeah, it sucks that your Mom was like that. But I understand why you had to compromise like that. I don't think that my Dad is quite that. He wasn't this bad when I was growing up, but over time he has become almost unbearable. He's getting more difficult with each pasing year to tolerate. There was only so much you could realistically do as a kid, and things are supposed to be getting better in the system, but I don't know. Are there more resources available? Yes, because of the digital age, I agree with that viewpoint.

Yeah, he is. But he knows that if he loses me, he's gonna be more screwed because I give him some form of supplementary "rent" to help pay bills that's a lot cheaper than renting a single one or two bedroom place. I understand the logic behind it, but like I said, it's getting harder to tolerate him. If I had enough money, I'd be out no problem. I'm willing to leave, but not able to leave which is annoying.


My Dad's too easily annoyed. He thinks everything is "demonic" and keeps forcing his opinions onto us. He keeps trying to save money, and saying that we're going to be judged for going to certain companies. It's impossible to avoid companies, realistically. He has so many opinions on companies and what they sponsor, but you can't actually avoid most of them. If that's his logic, then we shouldn't be wearing any clothes. We should be walking around naked, starving. You can't boycott everything. That's ridiculous. There is always going to be some underhanded "evil" (in his words) with companies. Is there a "lesser than two evils"? Yes, but there is always gonna be corporate greed, regardless of the governmental system put in place. Can it be distributed differently? Yes, it can be.

I probably should sit him down, but it's hard to do that. He's busy too. I should arrange something like what I said below to Expansion, but I don't know when I'll be able to do that. His routine is very spontaneous. Maybe I should ask him.

Present to him your goals and intentions, and try to work with the authority if you can, and avoid confrontation. Asked him if he is OK with a leave time- line, and that should stop the triggers you are seeing. With the proviso that he's mentally OK, and that includes sobriety, if that even plays into it.

I was thinking of making a document, with some pointers to present to him. Add some proof, and some pointers for a plan and he might actually listen. He is very dependent on the Te, over the Ti. He likes things to be thought out, and straightforward from what I've observed of him over the past 28 years.

It's very difficult to avoid confrontation. It's in my nature to be quite confrontational, and stand-offish. I'm very independent, too. I'm just living there cause I am broke, and it's too expensive for a single person to just move into something. It's a rip-off. I'm still searching for something cheap somewhere. It's honestly not worth it to actually live alone, even in a small place, unless you find roomates, but that defeats the purpose of "living alone", doesn't it?

There is an option to get government funding, somewhat, but it's not always approved. I think you have to meet certain criteria, and you also need to have found a council house. There are certain ways to get around it, though, but you need to show proof. I think that it needs to be when he's clear-minded, so earlier in the day. You need to think about the things you're gonna say as well.

[FDG]

LIE or ILI? Can't give advice on ILIs since they have a different mind and I don't understand them. They are quite convoluted, I think they are made for SEEs.

If he's LIE and does what you describe - I can give you some advice. I am almost never like your father but if I look at myself, since I am a natural chronometer and I have understood that our mind and bodies are actually biological clocks, during covid times I think in total I had a combined bout of 3-4 hours of being like him. It's the big problem of having extroverts not doing what they have to do...whatever, it happend, now we have to deal with it.


Thanks to socionics (I really have to be thankful to this forum), I have some decent insight in my own mind, doesn't work all the time but after 20 years...I know of know myself...sometimes I even shock people with insights...also stop being american, you exported your lifestyle in Europe and we are getting sick of it. Don't do war with your own family out of money, it's they only place where you can be safe and stay in peace, please read carefully this booklet and understand that. Consider that I am here one of the few that are dualized since 12 years so I actually know what works.

Said that: when LIEs become like that, being confrontational never works. I know it's truly hard for you americans to do that and be vulnerable, but what works with us is...let's be completely honest, I am 36...treat us like a pet. Give us some nice meal, a caress, maybe a small gift, a kiss (you can't since you are his male son, but some sex would also be nice ofc). We need and . If he can't accept that, do it a bit less directly, invite him to a nice restaurant with friends with a nice relaxed atmosphere...and then have a nice convo with him. You'll see it'll work. Don't look at socionics articles written by russians - tough love never works with a LIE who is actually doing his job 100%. Russians are speaking about real drunkens or criminals who spend their days doing nothing. If you try to treat a LIE who does his honest job like that - prepare for a full-scale war where he will spend the rest of his life trying to make your life hell. Strastevskaya must have had some really bad experiences judging for her descriptions, or perhaps ESIs have an overactive imagination.

Don't make a document lol. That will make it worse. You do have a very little bit of money right? Offer him a nice meal, no document, hug him, something like that, it'll make your life better straight away. However he needs to be open with
you, if he rejects that, mm, well, try to do your best.


With parents who ad a traumatic education, it's difficult. I was 23, working full time, paying rent to my mother and buying food and had my own car and living in a detached room at their house (I was finishing unversity in my hometown and it just made sense...). My father was of course even happy with it. My mother who had a traumatic education since in my region (Veneto) the standard is being evil, sometimes tried to make a scene about me not doing anything in the house etc. ofc when my father was around it never happened. I think I was 22 and actually earning good money and helping in the house when one day while I was working at the PC all of a sudden, she came in my room and accused me of not doing anything with my life (again - working full time and writing world-class published papers in financial mathematics, lol).
I had to tell her, look, please, go back to your bedroom, and I destroyed my bedroom door and started bleeding. She came and begged me pardon. The day after, I left and never saw her for 6 years. Unfortunately in many places, people use traumatic education for both the best and the worst people, and then this happens...the worst don't care about it and go on with life, the best become traumatized for life...in some places you just have to leave forever and leave them to their own destiny (dead, poor and alone).

[FDG]

Yeah, I don't tolerate a lot of fools and stupid people now. I don't tolerate a lot of crap from them. I prefer to have my own company, do shit by myself and not have people interfere with my shit. I get easily annoyed when people start to interfere with things.

But yeah, I try to compromise but avoid him as much as I can. My Dad tries to be controlling in a way, but I stand up for myself. He tries to find ways to squeeze more money out of me, and I refuse to let him do that. I need to save up as much as I can, I need to have a headstart on things. He's got worse in the last ten years, and he was less severe before. He thinks that he can "judge people", like God. He can't do that. He is just a dumb human, like the rest of us, by that line of thinking. He just rambles, and a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Compromising is becoming harder with him. He seems to be becoming needier, and he doesn't have to be needier. He has what he needs to survive, just about. He thinks that his job he does is "ethical", but he needs to make more money from it. He needs to market himself more, and be more visible to make more money. If you try and tell him that, he thinks it's compromising, in a way. But you gotta compromise your vision for cash at times. You have to be ruthless if you want to make money in your own business like that.

But yeah, it sucks that your Mom was like that. But I understand why you had to compromise like that. I don't think that my Dad is quite that. He wasn't this bad when I was growing up, but over time he has become almost unbearable. He's getting more difficult with each pasing year to tolerate. There was only so much you could realistically do as a kid, and things are supposed to be getting better in the system, but I don't know. Are there more resources available? Yes, because of the digital age, I agree with that viewpoint.

Yeah, he is. But he knows that if he loses me, he's gonna be more screwed because I give him some form of supplementary "rent" to help pay bills that's a lot cheaper than renting a single one or two bedroom place. I understand the logic behind it, but like I said, it's getting harder to tolerate him. If I had enough money, I'd be out no problem. I'm willing to leave, but not able to leave which is annoying.


My Dad's too easily annoyed. He thinks everything is "demonic" and keeps forcing his opinions onto us. He keeps trying to save money, and saying that we're going to be judged for going to certain companies. It's impossible to avoid companies, realistically. He has so many opinions on companies and what they sponsor, but you can't actually avoid most of them. If that's his logic, then we shouldn't be wearing any clothes. We should be walking around naked, starving. You can't boycott everything. That's ridiculous. There is always going to be some underhanded "evil" (in his words) with companies. Is there a "lesser than two evils"? Yes, but there is always gonna be corporate greed, regardless of the governmental system put in place. Can it be distributed differently? Yes, it can be.

I probably should sit him down, but it's hard to do that. He's busy too. I should arrange something like what I said below to Expansion, but I don't know when I'll be able to do that. His routine is very spontaneous. Maybe I should ask him.




I was thinking of making a document, with some pointers to present to him. Add some proof, and some pointers for a plan and he might actually listen. He is very dependent on the Te, over the Ti. He likes things to be thought out, and straightforward from what I've observed of him over the past 28 years.

It's very difficult to avoid confrontation. It's in my nature to be quite confrontational, and stand-offish. I'm very independent, too. I'm just living there cause I am broke, and it's too expensive for a single person to just move into something. It's a rip-off. I'm still searching for something cheap somewhere. It's honestly not worth it to actually live alone, even in a small place, unless you find roomates, but that defeats the purpose of "living alone", doesn't it?

There is an option to get government funding, somewhat, but it's not always approved. I think you have to meet certain criteria, and you also need to have found a council house. There are certain ways to get around it, though, but you need to show proof. I think that it needs to be when he's clear-minded, so earlier in the day. You need to think about the things you're gonna say as well.

Your father is kind of right with companies, but since he has more experience: ask him then which companies are the good ones (without emotions, just ask him). Surely there must be a couple of decent ones, they can't be ALL evil...try to have an open conversation, he's your father after all...or are in the US all companies evil? Perhaps, then idk found your own company with your father and fight them

If you both have money problems - whatever, speak about it and you'll live with less for a while, I don't believe in 2024 you will be starving. Money comes and goes...

(Ftr it's weird to find a non-ruthless LIE? I never ever do anything criminal, but in business I am quite ruthless, depending ofc on the people involved...if they are normal I am not ruthless)

[khaki]

In my opinion, life is all about figuring out what things you are willing to put up with from other people, and what things you aren't.

I had a violent narcissistic mother who tried to control everything about my life, including what I was allowed to say and think. She would emphasize her opinions with a punch to the face. She broke my sister's cheekbone by hitting her in the face with a wood-soled shoe.
I figured out early that my own mother didn't love me, or my sisters, or probably anyone, for that matter. She didn't love us, but instead we had a deal with her; We did everything she asked and we got to live there. Because I was in grade school and couldn't leave, I had to find a way to compromise.
She did tell me in fourth grade to get the hell out of her house, packed my suitcase for me, and threw me out. I had to beg to stay, because I knew that I would die on my own.
This moral compromise that I made, in the face of overwhelming threats, was to suppress my feelings at all costs, and it made my life similar to that of concentration camp prisoners. I'm still dealing with that today.

I don't recommend my solution to you, because the compromises that I made, while the best I could do at the time, resulted in my hating my mother with a deep passion for the rest of her life, and this didn't really hurt her at all; it merely fucked up my emotional state whenever I thought of her. In other words, my failure to take better control of my situation only hurt me.

In my defense, I will say that, when I was growing up, not many grade-school age kids had much in the way of psychological resources, but that is changing.

Let's look at your situation.

Your father is becoming increasingly abusive to you, probably with the intention of getting you to leave his house.
You say that you are not able or willing to leave his house, but you don't like the fact that he's giving you a hard time.

Maybe you should sit down with him and ask him what he'd like you to do, and then try to find a way for both of you to get what you want.

What's your mother's type?

[DEAD]

Your father is kind of right with companies, but since he has more experience: ask him then which companies are the good ones (without emotions, just ask him). Surely there must be a couple of decent ones, they can't be ALL evil...try to have an open conversation, he's your father after all...or are in the US all companies evil? Perhaps, then idk found your own company with your father and fight them

If you both have money problems - whatever, speak about it and you'll live with less for a while, I don't believe in 2024 you will be starving. Money comes and goes...

(Ftr it's weird to find a non-ruthless LIE? I never ever do anything criminal, but in business I am quite ruthless, depending ofc on the people involved...if they are normal I am not ruthless)

I understand, but I don’t really care about that in the same way that he does. He has a thing for finding ethical companies, or “the lesser of two evil”. I get the concept but it’s tiresome and pointless to a degree.

Companies are companies at the end of the day and are out for their own interests aka to make profit from a product in the cheapest way. I have no actual opinions on them, nor do I care much.

He is the emotional one, whining on about the companies being evil, but in my opinion, there are no good companies if you want to look at it that way.

Even ethical companies are just using that as a unique selling point, or a way to raise the price more. It’s the same thing, different process. You’re getting the same end product, even if it’s a higher quality version.

It’s just the product for different budgets. I’m not in the US, but a lot of US companies are global, yeah. The US is multicultural global hub and a big world player, so it makes sense.

I don’t care about fighting the companies ethically in the way that he does. He has his own “company” which makes supplements and he sells them, which is fine but he’s not making a lot of money from it.

It’s part time, but he juggles a lot of home maker things. But that’s how it is. Not every company is gonna be a million dollar one.

I’m trying to be reasonable with him, but he’s going through a bit of an unstable and rough patch at the moment and he’s a bit unbearable. I’m trying my best to work stuff out with him. I know I won’t starve but things are a bit tight at the moment.

I’m just a bit frustrated with him because of how he’s going about things. I know I need to be patient and work things out but it’s difficult. Will I get a place? Eventually. Will he calm down? Yes. I don’t mind living with less. I have already cut down. It’s not the end of the world. You’re right.

He’s being ruthless in an illogical way. He’s not thinking about things. He’s not thinking about what he’s doing. He’s being too stubborn with his morals and stuff, and he’s a bit stressed/unwell. I agree that there’s nothing wrong with being ruthless when you need to be. It’s life and it helps you survive.

But if you’re gonna be annoying and stupid all of the time, then go away and leave me alone. Lemme do my thing. Butt out. He needs to learn to do that more.

[stan]

ds

[DEAD]

ds

Who is dual seeking what?