On my real type (EII)— Aushura, Beebe

[Braingel]

So, I had actually initially started off typing myself as an EII when I first got into socionics, and I was correct, but not for the model that I was under, which threw me off from accurately self-typing. I would be an EII by classical standard, with mental Fi, Ne, Ti and Se, and vital Ni, Si Te and Ni.


In world socionics society, it would be an impossibility for me to be an EII, because of how Fe ignoring in that model is about keeping to oneself and avoiding expression and dramatic display, and an EII actively seeks to be pragmatic, seeking out and stimulating by Te. An IEI in classical aushura is actually more Te cognizant, because it has Te in a mental perfection spot (base and polr), and an eii in classical may be more aligned with a WSS IEI, because of TiSe super ego making great aspirations towards of this and fitting “Quadra values”, and the Te wouldn’t be as “valued”, because it would be a vital, unconscious function.


I am highly cognizant of my emotional distance between objects, and I am gifted in perceiving underlying properties and interworkings of things, which would be Ne in this model (is more Ni in modern, another point towards EII being closer to the modern idea of IEI).. I fixate on the placement of things and their appearances, and have a rigid, immature view of these means. I thought that living in a prettier area could solve all my problems and blamed a lack of beauty and nature for my some of my unhappiness. In spite of my fixation on Se aesthetics, I cannot actually well-understand this element and try and replace it with the deeper workings of their physical properties and their soul qualities.. I blame my issues on TiSe things. It was actually a user named Capitan, who pointed out my TiSe super ego:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...47d6beb3318c0&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...265f77a577acf&

It is partially of why I have limited myself with my abuse situation. Once this was pointed, I rapidly realized a lot of things I had said of myself and of other things are quite TiSe super ego… I noticed a lot of patterns.. I had mistaken my Si as a super ego function, it fits well in a super ID type of fantasy..


Now as far as John Beebe, I would be an FiNe, INFP.


My Fe oppositional is why I have been mistyped by so many, as an EIE.


I had noticed that SCS and John Beebe overlap one another slightly, and I had with this shared to Lena..

But as far as the oppositional Fe, I would like to give unto a quotation:

One of the shadow archetypes of consciousness, the opposing personality, consists of a cluster of defenses of the self that are used to oppose, rather than one and work with others. The opposing personality fuels the defensive character styles— passive aggressive, paranoid, avoidant and histrionic— we sometimes see in our patients. Deployed internally, this consciousness can end up opposing one’s own best interests in perverse ways.

--John Beebe, Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type, page 58

My Fe works against my own self and others, it is how I react with, it is where my neurosis shoots up. The Beebe oppositional function (first phase of a shadow) is aligned very well with the conception of the ignoring:

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

-p. 58

And even in Gulenko’s own school, the ignoring being a highly weakened, struggling area would befit of.

My oppositional Fe is identified with, from having been faced with immense trauma that has opposed my essence and made me work against my own self and others. It is likely a severely abused person in general would identify (as in relate or others would equate this person to such) more with their oppositional, which is defensive in nature and highly neurotic.

If you really examine myself, you will see all my criticisms and defensive behaviors are Fe, this is why people have typed me an EIE, and it is wrong they assume my defensive nature is hidden agenda Se and Fe base. It is almost like my Fe opposition feeds into my polr Se rotations and makes it more neurotic, and even a degree, psychotic.

Others misidentify this as Fe and Se, when it is pure unhealthy, neurotic Fe. When I had criticized and lashed out on Qaz, I had told him, “the community doesn’t need you”. It was me basing on collective standard in a delusional, opposing, attack full way.. I have exposed my abusive parents to the entire world to be seen— an Se+ super ego with my own placement and regard to the appearance/illusion my family gives, and exposing them to the entire world, globally to be seen (Fe-)… This has do with the TiSe super ego and oppositional/neurotically ignored Fe, that is suppressed in a healthful person, but in myself, has flared and shown face to the world in its scream— literal and metaphoric.

My Se is a perfection, evaluatory function— where I cannot keep track of my surreal sings, am poor at grasping the physical details and surface of objects, and yet aspire to be very good in this area. I want be a drawer and visual artist, to be able pair my drawings with poetry I write, and get it is notoriously difficult for me as to focus on all the pushcart details and keep them up with.. I aspire to have beautiful things and live beautifully, and yet can’t keep up with these things well, and it causes me pain and issue when I can’t meet up to these standards.

I am also very poorly aware of my own space, which is vital Si. I aspire to have my own “power” in my own placement of things, and yet I cannot achieve this— power to attain society aligning with my own FiNe ideals.. The FiNe are where the TiSe serve. (TiSe is concerned with power and is aware of those dynamics). It’s not that I want control over others or want power to compensate for deficits, but more to be seen (Se) and to bring about my own ideals for society (Fi in ego block).

My oppositional Fe can easily result in others to mistake me as an Fe ego or 4D Fe type.. Some peoples’ idea of Fe also overlaps Se, so very rarely, you may get a person who may try me 4D Se as well, but neither my Fe or Se maturely use. The Fe is discarded other than as an arsenal or unfulfilled ego wishes to try and ultimately bring about FiNe. Because others do not have a concept of full ego blocks. And the SCS view of ignoring isn’t quite complete, because it isn’t dealing with a direct neurotic person as does Beebe’s model. Most neurosis in SCS would be in super ego and suggestive..

My Fe is far from being an ego, as I am not consciously aware of my moods and emotions affecting others, and my image core in enneagram
more shows up in deliberately showing my gifts and abilities (Ne).

My Se also, I aspire to take action and imagine willpower, but never can initiate the will physically. Never in present reality, and put it off via Ne exploration of potential ideas and things that can come and help me with this, and of getting lost deep into the working of things. I have also tried be “scientific” (Se, observable, verified concrete proof), and yet always ended in my own ideas and interpretations of means, and also applying the science poorly in a way that doesn’t prove it in arguments.

[Muira]

I had noticed that SCS and John Beebe overlap one another slightly, and I had with this shared to Lena..

You know Lena? I know her too! She is so smart and polite.

[Braingel]

You know Lena? I know her too! She is so smart and polite.

Yes, she is. As far as my showing her of my own findings with beebe, she could see what I was sharing and what I had said about bebe’s literature of an Fi dom’s Ti demon fitting the role in what I noticed.

[Muira]

Yes, she is. As far as my showing her of my own findings with beebe, she could see what I was sharing and what I had said about bebe’s literature of an Fi dom’s Ti demon fitting the role in what I noticed.

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

[Braingel]

When @Metaphor had told me that I am an EII a year plus ago in my G thread, I had been surprised, and tried see why he’d think this from a POV of WSD, which I assumed he was using.. He has been able to correctly identify me as an EII, but I’d no idea he was using that model, nor did I know anything of it.

Calm, serious, rigid, and somewhat detached from the imaginary perception but able to mental imagery (Ni demo), something that I wouldn't usually see from the other IEIs. And IEI often is quite noticeable from their upbringing - despite when they appear serious, no one would arduously take them seriously because of their fun-loving nature (this is common among the Beta quadra). Also, as for the further implication, you could check this thread for a few more details about their noticeable differences when it comes to behaviors or upbringings:

what-are-some-differences-between-eii-and-iei

What he was basically describing when he’d typed me, is 4D vital Ni (unconscious).

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Sure, give me time. I’ve a few things to add to this thread in my initial starting post, and I’ll post what I found..

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

So, I’m going to show you the direct things I’ve shown Lena..


The book has a bunch of annotations of insights and had revelations I’d..


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...72f213f9fc090&


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...f8432de026ffa&

The focus on placement in the Fi lead and power imbalance feels highly super ego ish, and whilst Beebe defines Ti as the demon of Fi, his conception of Ti is highly aligning of the role… The super ego start.. I had shown this to Lena and she’s agreed with my interpretation, that it aligns scs (as I’ve not studied the model in vast, and merely grasped it intuitively).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...876e8718361fb&

My comments on beebe Lena had corrected fits Se for his own views (likely because it’s finance), but it still would fit super ego, and I feel it does fit SeFi (he is an ILE, and self-types such in his model, furthering his super ego is highly aligning scs in his own self-type)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1d305a49f70e8&

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function befits the ignoring overall:

The shadow is repressed because it is felt to be incomparable with a person’s moral values. It retains, and firm time to time expresses, feelings, motives, desires, and ambitions that the person has long decided are unworthy, because they do not accord with the individual’s idea of how people should feel, let alone behave. Since it is usually not owned as part of the person, the shadow has a great deal of autonomy, which allows it from time to time even to escape repression, so that it can act out the very striving that the ego has rejected as incomparable with its standards.

(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychiatrist (but who specializes in psychotherapy). His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

[Braingel]

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function before the ignoring overall:



(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychologist. His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

My Fe, for instance, is EXTREMELY neurotic. It is no surprise I have been typed a model G “EIE-H”.. They assume it would be “Fe- base”.. And one person suggesting me as SEE (which is way off). It is easy to assume me as those, because my Fe and my Se are easily my most neurotic placements, aside from my Ti. But this is having do with the placement of my functions, rather than actual behavioral correlation to functions. Which is how most people approach typing, which is a false way to by. My Fe shows its face. Beebe’s oppositional fits ignoring in socionics, but he takes it further in that he pathologizes this placement as a highly neurotic show. He thinks all of the shadow can be neurotic, and the super ego would be the shadow as well in his model, and scs would classify the ID and super ego as neurotic…. So this idea is also quite in support of beebe as well… though, the super ID suggestive may be put to as more neurotic.

[Braingel]

Model G can’t catch my real type alone, because it doesn’t get into the essence of someone’s psychological processes and focuses on behavior. It’s a very, very sensory system. Gulenko would be an SCS ESI, replacing Ne deeper workings and content of objects and their potentials, with Se observations of physical behavior, and a TiNe super ego.. His Ne is rigid.

It just looks at my “behavior”. So in the whole “type image”, it is easy to slam me as “EIE” with Fe- base… It doesn’t look at the origin of my Fe-. I would have Fe- in classical aushura… But it is not conscious, it is not 4D. It is ignored. And Beebe’s way of defining the ignoring of opposition makes it an arsenal and offense.. Which does show up in myself.

[Braingel]

Model G would assume me as an overall neurotic person.. It would dumb it down and classify me as being neurotic, because I’m “a negativist” (which I am not). When it is my shadow that’s neurotic.. My Fi and Ne aren’t neurotic at all… They’re my least neurotic functions, but of course I still will internalize info in these things, which will feed into trauma responses, but they’re how info digests, and then the Fe throws up.. From the Fi-Ne digestion..

[Braingel]

Model G can’t catch my real type alone, because it doesn’t get into the essence of someone’s psychological processes and focuses on behavior. It’s a very, very sensory system. Gulenko would be an SCS ESI, replacing Ne deeper workings and content of objects and their potentials, with Se observations of physical behavior, and a TiNe super ego.. His Ne is rigid.

It just looks at my “behavior”. So in the whole “type image”, it is easy to slam me as “EIE” with Fe- base… It doesn’t look at the origin of my Fe-. I would have Fe- in classical aushura… But it is not conscious, it is not 4D. It is ignored. And Beebe’s way of defining the ignoring of opposition makes it an arsenal and offense.. Which does show up in myself.

Which doesn’t work in the case of complex trauma. So it’s no wonder I am basically untypable in model G. Because that entire system is based on behavior and what behavior shows out.. Well, my behavior showing out are neurotic reactions from child abuse and other traumas… It isn’t even coming drom
my base function. My abuse makes me behave like a 4D Fe type and look stronger Se than I am, because my Se is polr and highly neurotic thereof, and can’t maturely express itself.

[Braingel]

Model G is basically a system made for Se egos. Which is no surprise, because Gulenko is actually an Se ego his own self. Others may try argue, “but it is the only system that considers a plethora of possibilities”.. Yes, it considers possibilities, but based on physically observable qualities and features of a person, and their expressed, seen behavior. This is Se replacing Ne. This is why Gulenko is an XSI, and I type him as an ESI, because TiNe super ego form of mental functions make far more sense than of FiSe super ego/mental, and he is quite open to Ti systems, and hyper focuses on peoples’ placements in society.

It is Se replacing Ne to focus on possibilities by physical observation and what is concretely presenting, and to make an entire model based around “type images”. Even Gulenko’s book descriptions are based on physical characteristics and observed behavior. It never goes into deep cognition or what’s underneath the behavior and of why it happens.

[Braingel]

Scs is made for Ne egos and Ne roles (who are more open and don’t discriminate/filter Ne info). No susprise, was at its basis, made by an Ne base ego.

[Braingel]

Which doesn’t work in the case of complex trauma. So it’s no wonder I am basically untypable in model G. Because that entire system is based on behavior and what behavior shows out.. Well, my behavior showing out are neurotic reactions from child abuse and other traumas… It isn’t even coming drom
my base function. My abuse makes me behave like a 4D Fe type and look stronger Se than I am, because my Se is polr and highly neurotic thereof, and can’t maturely express itself.

I can only think of three people who are active SHS users who aren’t Se ego, and two of them are Se roles (Kindness, Reality denialist/mr p).. Wisteria is some sei or lii, in this model. It makes sense also for an Se role to be interested in shs, because they don’t have a filter for Se forms of info.. They’re wide open to it.

Pirouette, Ilyi, Aster, my research, etc.. Are Se egos… ESI for the first two (aster would have super ID Ni fantasy and Se fairy aesthetic), ilyi SLE, myr LSI is kept. Now varla is likely an Se ego or an Se role. Dunno him enough, but he is interested in Se systems, like model G and vultology. He could be Se role unable to discern info on this..

Spectrum is likely LSI/SEI.

So only two people type their own accurately by an Aushura and Beebe standard of typing. I actually always had both aster and pirouette as esi’s..

[Braingel]

I can only think of three people who are active SHS users who aren’t Se ego, and two of them are Se roles (Kindness, Reality denialist/mr p).. Wisteria is some sei or lii, in this model. It makes sense also for an Se role to be interested in shs, because they don’t have a filter for Se forms of info.. They’re wide open to it.

Pirouette, Ilyi, Aster, my research, etc.. Are Se egos… ESI for the first two (aster would have super ID Ni fantasy and Se fairy aesthetic), ilyi SLE, myr LSI is kept. Now varla is likely an Se ego or an Se role. Dunno him enough, but he is interested in Se systems, like model G and vultology. He could be Se role unable to discern info on this..

Spectrum is likely LSI/SEI.

So only two people type their own accurately by an Aushura and Beebe standard of typing. I actually always had both aster and pirouette as esi’s..

Ilyi is very open to Ne models like Beebe and scs, because of her role being Ne..

[Muira]

Then, Beebe’s eternal child conception really befits a super ID (which I assume would be fantasy of unconscious), being a childish function not vastly developed.. And wanting play and grab attention.. And then his oppositional function befits the ignoring overall:



(The oppositional is the start of the shadow). Beebe is focused on pathology and neurosis, as he’s a clinical psychiatrist (but who specializes in psychotherapy). His model conceived after 40+ years of clinical work.. So his idea of the ignoring will be more averted upon pathology and neurotic cases. In a non neurotic person, it would manifest differently…

Interesting! Wanna see the analysis Lena composed for me?

[Braingel]

Indeed! She has typed me out on my profile Yukita on PDB, but as talking to her on discord, she explained a lot more on my typing and helped me on how much information I should add.

I learned a lot as she analyzed my questionnaire, she also explained a lot of important concepts.

She also was critical of ITR theory which made a lot more sense when using my own experience, she agreed that ITR only seems to apply to which when two people are unfamiliar and remain immature(haven't broken away from chain-of-thought, lacks individual based self-actualization).

Can you show me some examples of Bebe's literature you discussed? I wanna see them for myself.

Aushura’s Fi was basically replaced by Ti sysemtizing, so she had a very rigid view of ITR dynamics.. In a systemic, Ti replaced way, and her system is Ne-Ti with very poor Fi.

[Braingel]

Interesting! Wanna see the analysis Lena composed for me?

Sure. I haven’t been typed by scs formally, as their queue has closed for this time. But I’ve been informally typed eii by several users with good analyses, and Lena didn’t directly type me (and implied questionnaire is required), but implied Fi base and observatory/ignoring Fe are likely, and that mental Ne is. She basically implied I’m likely EII or ESI. She also had said Capitan’s EII analysis is highly aligned with SCS.. But yeah, I’d be EII.

[Muira]

Aushura’s Fi was basically replaced by Ti sysemtizing, so she had a very rigid view of ITR dynamics.. In a systemic, Ti replaced way, and her system is Ne-Ti with very poor Fi.

Yep, which I thought similar to Aushura until I looked at my experience with my conflictors(ex My dad) and reflected after going to therapy.

I was offended because they were right, and I was of course immature, but also after really understanding how one of the people who have cared about me even at my lowest were EII and ESI, I understood more.


Poor Fi leads to general lack of satisfaction in relationships, a 1D view of people around them, etc.

[Muira]

Sure. I haven’t been typed by scs formally, as their queue has closed for this time. But I’ve been informally typed eii by several users with good analyses, and Lena didn’t directly type me (and implied questionnaire is required), but implied Fi base and observatory/ignoring Fe are likely, and that mental Ne is. She basically implied I’m likely EII or ESI. She also had said Capitan’s EII analysis is highly aligned with SCS.. But yeah, I’d be EII.

Here

You being EII fits well, naturally reflective and insightful.

I also know Captain too, who typed me the same TIM as Lena. He also called me a more healthy, sane version of Logan Roy, lmao.

Are you on the SCS server?

[Braingel]

Here

You being EII fits well, naturally reflective and insightful.

I also know Captain too, who typed me the same TIM as Lena. He also called me a more healthy, sane version of Logan Roy, lmao.

Are you on the SCS server?

I left the scs server for now, but may join when they re-open their queue

[Muira]

I left the scs server for now, but may join when they re-open their queue

Like public typing? Doesn't it require 2 quizzes completed and passed to get analyzed?

They are pausing typing temporarily all together right now?

[Braingel]

Like public typing? Doesn't it require 2 quizzes completed and passed to get analyzed?

They are pausing typing temporarily all together right now?

Yes to everything.. But this wouldn’t be an issue, I can do that when it’s re-opened.

[Braingel]

Here

You being EII fits well, naturally reflective and insightful.

I also know Captain too, who typed me the same TIM as Lena. He also called me a more healthy, sane version of Logan Roy, lmao.

Are you on the SCS server?

And yeah, it is very unfortunate that I had started with world socionics society.. It is the most accessible school for English natives… Filatova isn’t that great her own self, either. Filatova may be LSI, or something.. I am a pretty clear EII by classical socio standard, and few people would believe this typing for myself (unless they’re pan Jung, which I don’t believe every single system transfers over, but I do believe that Beebe and scs are mostly transfer overs)..

The thing is also, that my Fe is very much showing its face and screams so loud, it seems mental. It dominates my life so much, because it is right where all my neurosis and trauma is stored in. It takes away from the goodness of my Fi and my Ne. This is where my cptsd shows up, and it also shows in social 4 (Naranjo, RH).

My studying of Beebe (skim) is what made me ultimately accept EII for myself, because I for one, noticed it transfers, and secondly, it directly explains why my Fe dictates my life.

but I had *always* wondered, prior to studying beebe or intuiting aushura, if I can just be an extremely traumatized eii who would look beta because of cptsd..

[Braingel]

I mean, I don’t even really have a Gulenko typing for myself. Nothing in that model even works for me. People would try type me eie or ili H, because of my neuroticism. But I am not a Te ego, I am not an Fe base, Fi ignored, Si brake. I am not EJ.

[Muira]

Yes to everything.. But this wouldn’t be an issue, I can do that when it’s re-opened.

Dam, not even private typings?

[Braingel]

Dam, not even private typings?

No, best bet for now is to get a guess by Capitan or the sort.. But it’s pretty apparent I am an EII. I mean, I really don’t see what else I could be typed as.. IEE would be the only thing coming close by this..

[Braingel]

Once Capitan pointed out my TiSe super ego, I started noticing it everywhere in myself, in past things I’ve written and the sort. I thought that Si mental/super ego can also work, because I don’t discriminate Si info (but this is mostly for aromatherapy and herbs, not in direct comfort itself and space, I suppose).. Bit super ID fantasy works. After all, it isn’t like I always think about health and comfort… It’s a fantasy that I hold..

[Braingel]

I mean, I would’ve figured it out in my own, but I barely know the model and most my understanding is intuitive inference and logic.. And I was at time, still operating mostly under Fila/WSS, in which where Fe ignoring is an absolute for me, impossibility.

[Braingel]

Once Capitan pointed out my TiSe super ego, I started noticing it everywhere in myself, in past things I’ve written and the sort. I thought that Si mental/super ego can also work, because I don’t discriminate Si info (but this is mostly for aromatherapy and herbs, not in direct comfort itself and space, I suppose).. Bit super ID fantasy works. After all, it isn’t like I always think about health and comfort… It’s a fantasy that I hold..

Which tbh, shows how immature my Si is.. Just studying aromatherapy and herbs like a curious child sometimes, and then boring it by, and having fantasies of comfort without being able materialize it, like a comfortable cottage by a brook that’s misty, where I can spend the days in my own inner world.

[Braingel]

At first I didn’t even really want type myself as an EII, even, because it went against my self-idealized image of an ultimate fairy dreamer (which isn’t even how it is per se, in scs and an EII is more perceptive in ways of many in terms of deep auric perception, because of being able to perceive the hidden essence and potential of the object, making it even more “fairy ish”), and still tried see IEI in SCS, but no, EII is aligning my essence and cognition.. My social 4w5 presence just wanted mask itself over the lens for a brief. Then, my boyfriend is an SLE and had always thought me an EII and criticized the conflict relation, and so whilst I knew this doesn’t determine compatibility alone, it bothered me to be seen EII.

[Muira]

And yeah, it is very unfortunate that I had started with world socionics society.. It is the most accessible school for English natives… Filatova isn’t that great her own self, either. Filatova may be LSI, or something.. I am a pretty clear EII by classical socio standard, and few people would believe this typing for myself (unless they’re pan Jung, which I don’t believe every single system transfers over, but I do believe that Beebe and scs are mostly transfer overs)..

The thing is also, that my Fe is very much showing its face and screams so loud, it seems mental. It dominates my life so much, because it is right where all my neurosis and trauma is stored in. It takes away from the goodness of my Fi and my Ne. This is where my cptsd shows up, and it also shows in social 4 (Naranjo, RH).

My studying of Beebe (skim) is what made me ultimately accept EII for myself, because I for one, noticed it transfers, and secondly, it directly explains why my Fe dictates my life.

but I had *always* wondered, prior to studying beebe or intuiting aushura, if I can just be an extremely traumatized eii who would look beta because of cptsd..

Who hasn't discovered socionics through western socionics, I generally correlate Jungian with socionics(classical), but MBTI and most socionic models are their own thing due to the lost translations of the definitions of the IME functions.


I relate a lot to you as well, at first I was confused between LSE and SLE at first, but I don't think I should share my explicit personal stuff if It's unasked for.

But its generally self desensitization and callousness, disassociating from internal judgement to then be consumed by the present moment and the impluse that comes with it, development from a lack of safety(Child SA, etc) and needed emotional needs, being so focused on superficial things as a Naranjo sp/so 8 and 847 by Ichazo. Generally being neurodivergent as well might have amplified my struggle with socializing properly, etc.

Having repeated thoughts like "Why should I be open if Ill just become a doormat and exploited, etc?” Which lacked a lot of Fi nuace.

Yet sometimes my actions might contradict(giving, donating, getting rid of someone else's workload) what I believe and think, the separation of nonverbal personality and verbal display.

Personality and Personality type

overlap but aren't the same thing, as Aushra has written about it.

[Muira]

At first I didn’t even really want type myself as an EII, even, because it went against my self-idealized image of an ultimate fairy dreamer (which isn’t even how it is per se, in scs and an EII is more perceptive in ways of many in terms of deep auric perception, because of being able to perceive the hidden essence and potential of the object, making it even more “fairy ish”), and still tried see IEI in SCS, but no, EII is aligning my essence and cognition.. My social 4w5 presence just wanted mask itself over the lens for a brief. Then, my boyfriend is an SLE and had always thought me an EII and criticized the conflict relation, and so whilst I knew this doesn’t determine compatibility alone, it bothered me to be seen EII.

EIIs are so much more creative and coherent though, but I get where you are coming from.

[Muira]

No, best bet for now is to get a guess by Capitan or the sort.. But it’s pretty apparent I am an EII. I mean, I really don’t see what else I could be typed as.. IEE would be the only thing coming close by this..

Interesting! What's your opinion on SCS in general?

[Braingel]

Interesting! What's your opinion on SCS in general?

SCS is superior to all other socio schools in my view, but is still incomplete. I would like to see SCs incorporate John Beebe’s insights, especially in the shadow. I’ve noticed they occasionally mistype a person in their shadow, as their shadow type, and it’s because they don’t yet know that the ignoring function can be the most neurotic placement (to me, it is almost as if it’s the dammed off place, where all the unconscious traumas are harbored, and so it is only accessed when absolutely necessary. Moment it opens full, flood of neurosis outpours, and trauma is often the key to its unfortunate, devastating unlock.. But I really don’t believe I’d be typed as an EIE by them.. Issue is if someone is too identified in their shadow, they’ll answer the questionnaire from that function.

[Braingel]

EIIs are so much more creative and coherent though, but I get where you are coming from.

Yeah, I know. Qaz was trying say I am not intuitive or Ni base, because he can understand my thoughts and they’re not as disconnected as Ni based on this site (which is a pretty bad way to type by, but it’s because his Si base processes like that, and his Ni can only learn from experience).. I am autistic, so I will in general communicate more blunt and straightforward, even though I am extremely adept with symbols. Also, part of this got drilled into me, to not communicate in my flower metaphoric language, because of ABA therapy, which.. In my childhood as you can see, I got bullied often for speaking too maturely and also abstractly: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...857d0f8ba8841&

But I always express this where it will be valued. Some of my selectiveness with revealing this has do with image-based shame issues.

Anyone who knows me and is close would tell you I am deeply metaphoric and symbolical in my communication. But I can be blunt in general social interactions as a learnt way to avoid more social miscommunications that have resulted in a lot of trauma as for me.

This is why typing by surface characteristics is often inaccurate. People evolve defenses and ways to guard their essence overtime with enough negative reinforcements..

I’ve shown a lot of my symbolical communicative style on discord, and it’s driven some people insane, even threw “schizo” at me.

[Braingel]

Yeah, I know. Qaz was trying say I am not intuitive or Ni base, because he can understand my thoughts and they’re not as disconnected as Ni based on this site (which is a pretty bad way to type by, but it’s because his Si base processes like that, and his Ni can only learn from experience).. I am autistic, so I will in general communicate more blunt and straightforward, even though I am extremely adept with symbols. Also, part of this got drilled into me, to not communicate in my flower metaphoric language, because of ABA therapy, which.. In my childhood as you can see, I got bullied often for speaking too maturely and also abstractly: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...857d0f8ba8841&

But I always express this where it will be valued. Some of my selectiveness with revealing this has do with image-based shame issues.

Anyone who knows me and is close would tell you I am deeply metaphoric and symbolical in my communication. But I can be blunt in general social interactions as a learnt way to avoid more social miscommunications that have resulted in a lot of trauma as for me.

This is why typing by surface characteristics is often inaccurate. People evolve defenses and ways to guard their essence overtime with enough negative reinforcements..

I’ve shown a lot of my symbolical communicative style on discord, and it’s driven some people insane, even threw “schizo” at me.

I would go around using far advanced my age vocabulary words, and communicating in metaphors and analogies and random thoughts devoid from reality.. My teachers and ABA therapists tried train this out of me, to avoid me becoming more bullied than already I was being…

I’ve faced immense maltreatment in my life, and it was present from kindergarten.. By peers and happened made severely alone age 7 from family.. Me being more selective with things about myself, is not only image in the context of shame in this way, but it is how a victim of sexual assault may with an introversive personality, wear a lot of saggy clothing to conceal their own self as a measure to avoid more touching..

See, how I had said “long story” https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ad96b64b303d7&
I wrote it out places I knew I wouldn’t be devalued as much.. Even if I was a bit.. From my intensive split from reality insights and metaphors and people had given me such a hard time for clogging chats with that.. When I am accessed into my 2 line, though, I just unfilteredly pour everything out. Often in the shadow of Fe. (Vital ignored Fe that does come on, expressing my own emotions to public for my own self in those times, with no care for impact in how it’s received).

[Muira]

SCS is superior to all other socio schools in my view, but is still incomplete. I would like to see SCs incorporate John Beebe’s insights, especially in the shadow. I’ve noticed they occasionally mistype a person in their shadow, as their shadow type, and it’s because they don’t yet know that the ignoring function can be the most neurotic placement (to me, it is almost as if it’s the dammed off place, where all the unconscious traumas are harbored, and so it is only accessed when absolutely necessary. Moment it opens full, flood of neurosis outpours, and trauma is often the key to its unfortunate, devastating unlock.. But I really don’t believe I’d be typed as an EIE by them.. Issue is if someone is too identified in their shadow, they’ll answer the questionnaire from that function.

This is all interesting, I'll defiantly look a lot into Beebe's work.

I see, well what level are you on the socionic quizzes?

How confident are you on typing, are you still studying SCS?

[Braingel]

I would go around using far advanced my age vocabulary words, and communicating in metaphors and analogies and random thoughts devoid from reality.. My teachers and ABA therapists tried train this out of me, to avoid me becoming more bullied than already I was being…

I’ve faced immense maltreatment in my life, and it was present from kindergarten.. By peers and happened made severely alone age 7 from family.. Me being more selective with things about myself, is not only image in the context of shame in this way, but it is how a victim of sexual assault may with an introversive personality, wear a lot of saggy clothing to conceal their own self as a measure to avoid more touching..

See, how I had said “long story” https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ad96b64b303d7&
I wrote it out places I knew I wouldn’t be devalued as much.. Even if I was a bit.. From my intensive split from reality insights and metaphors and people had given me such a hard time for clogging chats with that.. When I am accessed into my 2 line, though, I just unfilteredly pour everything out. Often in the shadow of Fe. (Vital ignored Fe that does come on, expressing my own emotions to public for my own self in those times, with no care for impact in how it’s received).

This random blurting out my detached thoughts, awkward social interactions, communicative differences (more metaphoric, more awkward interactions, lack of eye contact and more importantly my severe disorganization for me evaluated by special ed team and school psych for autism to begin with.