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Thread: Heresy Thread

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    Post Heresy Thread

    Compsci is a scam because no one uses lambda calculus or Turing machines. Turing offed himself because of something some beachside tent fortune teller told him anyway.

    Pineapple doesn't go on pizza because pizza is bad. Speaking of which, I should go make some curry with pineapple.

    Socionics is very silly because duality is an awful idea. Who wants to be with someone who has the opposite personality to you. Sounds gross.

    Heresy is from The Chrysalids by John Wyndham. I like 40k as much as anyone but if you don't read real old sci-fi books that take ideas like mutants with telepathy seriously you're boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    pizza is bad.
    Weirdo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Weirdo.
    It's called Heresy Thread and I call myself a mutant for a reason.

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    Why I Hate Pizza (vice.com)

    <In loyalty to their kind they cannot tolerate our rise; in loyalty to our kind we cannot tolerate their bread with cheese on it.>

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    The Scientific Reason Why Some People Hate Cheese | MyRecipes

    11.5% of French people hate cheese and this is literally France. You cannot stop the tide of mutants when we have such a strong foothold in the cheese capital of humanity. Seeing as there's apparently a genetic link, this is also likely to literally be a mutation, even if it doesn't give you telepathy. No one cares about mutations that give you telepathy, mutations that make you not like cheese are what's really weird in this world.

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    I would commit the action of being a Quadra Traitor and stick my dick in a Gamma if they weren't lacking in sex appeal.

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    Cover your heaven, Zeus,
    With cloudy vapours,
    And test your strength, like a boy
    Beheading thistles,
    On oaks and mountain peaks;
    Yet you must leave
    My earth alone,
    And my hut you did not build,
    And my hearth,
    Whose fire
    You envy me.

    I know nothing more paltry
    Beneath the sun than you, gods!
    Meagrely you nourish
    Your majesty
    On levied offerings
    And the breath of prayer,
    And would starve, were
    Not children and beggars
    Optimistic fools.

    When I was a child,
    Not knowing which way to turn,
    I raise my misguided eyes
    To the sun, as if above it there were
    An ear to hear my lament,
    A heart like mine,
    To pity me in my anguish.

    Who helped me
    Withstand the Titans’ insolence?
    Who saved me from death
    And slavery?
    Did you not accomplish all this yourself,
    Sacred glowing heart?
    And did you not – young, innocent,
    Deceived – glow with gratitude for your deliverance
    To that slumber in the skies?

    I honour you? Why?
    Did you ever soothe the anguish
    That weighed me down?
    Did you ever dry my tears
    When I was terrified?
    Was I not forged into manhood
    By all-powerful Time
    And everlasting Fate,
    My masters and yours?

    Did you suppose
    I should hate life,
    Flee into the wilderness,
    Because not all
    My blossoming dreams bore fruit?

    Here I sit, making <mutants>
    In my own image,
    A race that shall be like me,
    That shall suffer, weep,
    Know joy and delight,
    And ignore you
    As I do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    I would commit the action of being a Quadra Traitor and stick my dick in a Gamma if they weren't lacking in sex appeal.
    TIMSLI (XX Chromosomes)
    XX male syndrome? MUTANT. Join the party!

    I always wonder if Henry the VIII had XX male syndrome.

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    On the topic of me being a mutant for not liking cheese and pizza (because it has cheese on it,) parents forcing their offspring to eat things when they don't like them and there's other food available should be considered some kind of child abuse or bullying, and ditto for the normalization of "pizza parties" etc. I would not be surprised at all if the aggregate of little things like that didn't have some kind of profound psychological effect, though I hesitate to just say trauma or anything since I think people should be strong instead of being victims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    Compsci is a scam because no one uses lambda calculus or Turing machines. Turing offed himself because of something some beachside tent fortune teller told him anyway.
    I had to look up some Turing quotes. At first I thought he was an ST, but then I remembered the golden rule of Socionics: if they're famous for being smart, they're an NT. Obviously, he's an LII, if he were alive today he'd be a liberal with blue hair like Sonic The Hedgehog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    I had to look up some Turing quotes. At first I thought he was an ST, but then I remembered the golden rule of Socionics: if they're famous for being smart, they're an NT. Obviously, he's an LII, if he were alive today he'd be a liberal with blue hair like Sonic The Hedgehog.
    Well, Turing was gay. Like literally, he was just gay. But that's not great representation for gay people since he made up a bunch of useless speculative garbage that's held computing (different from computer science) back and he killed himself due to visiting a fortune teller. He also worked for the British in WWII breaking codes, and you know what that means: He didn't give a rat's behind about the Holocaust or what Churchill was doing to the Indians and doing with Crowley (seriously, the V gesture is from Aleister Crowley the Satanist, look it up.) Also part of his Turing test was that he didn't think machines could ever convince people they had ESP. Seriously. Meanwhile in the real world a lot of people think ChatGPT is a demon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    he killed himself due to visiting a fortune teller.
    Google said he killed himself because he couldn't bear being chemically castrated. Stop telling lies on the internet, Birdbrain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Google said he killed himself because he couldn't bear being chemically castrated. Stop telling lies on the internet, Birdbrain.
    Alan Turing - Wikipedia

    It has been suggested that Turing's belief in fortune-telling may have caused his depressed mood.[180] As a youth, Turing had been told by a fortune-teller that he would be a genius. In mid-May 1954, shortly before his death, Turing again decided to consult a fortune-teller during a day-trip to St Annes-on-Sea with the Greenbaum family.[180] According to the Greenbaums' daughter, Barbara:[172]

    But it was a lovely sunny day and Alan was in a cheerful mood and off we went... Then he thought it would be a good idea to go to the Pleasure Beach at Blackpool. We found a fortune-teller's tent and Alan said he'd like to go in[,] so we waited around for him to come back... And this sunny, cheerful visage had shrunk into a pale, shaking, horror-stricken face. Something had happened. We don't know what the fortune-teller said but he obviously was deeply unhappy. I think that was probably the last time we saw him before we heard of his suicide.

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    I don't know how the idea of duality in socionics isn't a major libido-killer despite all the jokes that 16t is not a dating site, is full of porn, or is about bestiality etc. Dating the opposite personality type is unattractive. On the other hand, the book I mentioned, The Chrysalids by John Wyndham has the opposite effect. I admit it actually makes me fantasize off and on about finding another telep... person like me.

    Speaking of chemical castration, 16t is probably like electronic castration that way. Eww and lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    Fascinating. My schizophrenic aunt that's an EIE worked as a fortune teller; I had an idea of becoming a wrestler a few months ago (no homo) and she called me on the phone to tell me that I could become famous as a wrestler. I could be an LII professional wrestler if I try hard enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    XX male syndrome? MUTANT. Join the party!

    I always wonder if Henry the VIII had XX male syndrome.
    I'm not an XX male, I'm an XY male. I'm not a dainty woman, I'm a big hairy man. That's just the truth, don't let profile information on the internet fool you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Fascinating. My schizophrenic aunt that's an EIE worked as a fortune teller; I had an idea of becoming a wrestler a few months ago (no homo) and she called me on the phone to tell me that I could become famous as a wrestler. I could be an LII professional wrestler if I try hard enough.
    Socionics is fake and wrestling is also fake so I don't doubt it. She isn't wrong just because she's schizophrenic and works as a fortune teller. For that matter, some people who say they're fortune tellers can imo, just it seems like Alan Turing was willing to trust literally anyone who claimed it. I think even if some people can doesn't mean you should trust everyone who says they can. That's like trusting everyone who claims to be a Nigerian prince. Do you have to believe there are no Nigerian princes or else believe everyone who claims to be a Nigerian prince on the Internet? But then that's basically Arthur Conan Doyle's opinion. However, unlike Nigerian princes, no one can really prove random schizophrenics wrong about being a fortune teller all that easily, or random people who want to believe people claiming to be fortune tellers. Some of the parapsychology organizations are trying to work on certifying it though, but that might be a bad thing if psychic people are mutants. Everyone knows what hominids like to do to their neighbors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    Socionics is fake and wrestling is also fake so I don't doubt it.
    Look, I get it. I wasted my money becoming a Medical Doctor of Socionics. You don't have to rub it in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    I'm not an XX male, I'm an XY male. I'm not a dainty woman, I'm a big hairy man. That's just the truth, don't let profile information on the internet fool you.
    But XX males usually are big hairy men. Go get some genetic testing for no reason other than I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    But XX males usually are big hairy men. Go get some genetic testing for no reason other than I said.
    I'm not actually an XX male or an XY male, I'm a Radiohead song, it's my username actually. Checkmate, atheist.

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    More heresy:

    Te As Ideological Function (the16types.info)

    This thread where I quote Dijkstra is an example of how I really got into computing recently. I've had a little bit of an interest off and on, and I've had a little tiny bit of experience through silly things like playing ROBLOX when I was much younger (though it wasn't popular then, I was at least in the target age range) and making HTML webpages and then having my parents try to get me to learn Java (life pro tip: don't try to learn Java unless you have something really specific you want to do with Java, just learn Python, I haven't finished learning Python yet but it's still very clearly better in almost every way) but Dijkstra basically dispelled all the really negative opinions of computing in general I had.

    I heard about Dijkstra when I got horribly sick, fell way behind in my classes, and then showed up to one of my professor's office hours and saw that she had Python books everywhere. Some people were telling me to learn Python before then and I also wanted to learn Python for Audacity as silly as that is, but people also agreed I should just learn Python in general, you don't really need Java or all those other languages so much if you learn Python (you probably still need C/C++ if you're doing things that are complicated enough for it though) since Python works for scripting and programming and I've heard specifically it's basically Lua (aka the language ROBLOX gets kids to script for them in for free/underpaid) but with different punctuation too.

    Then I said if I got a job applying math I would do AI (though I think everyone just wants me to be an actuary or something because they don't understand lots of people in math go into computing,) but I disagree with how the computer science people I met were doing AI when they showed up to math club to talk about it. My professor said that what I was talking about is something people also do and then she sent me one of Dijkstra's papers (a different one.) Then I started reading a lot of Dijkstra papers and enjoyed them because it's a completely different Weltanschauung (to use the pretentious word) than anything I've encountered before, it definitely doesn't seem like a bunch of sweaty hackers or corporate slavedrivers, despite the fact there are people who like those ideas and would take offense that I said "sweaty hackers" and "corporate slavedrivers." (Not that all professional hackers or business owners are remotely like that but everyone knows what kind of people I mean. The so-called heroes of Silly-Con Valley.)

    Now I tend to see Turing as the apex of really what's wrong with computing. Dijkstra goes after Turing and he goes after "black magic" in the tech bro kind of culture but he never makes the connection. Even if you want to believe in clairvoyance, Turing didn't want to be critical of the literal dockside fortune-teller in a random tent because that would require him to have some understanding of what fortune-telling hypothetically is and Turing just wanted to sort of play with fire and things he doesn't understand. Dijkstra says black magic along with black box and that's been how I understood the idea of black magic for a while now, I've even expressly said it on 16t, I just wasn't willing to extend the idea to anything more mainstream than literal occultism (even if literal occultism is not all that rare.) Black magic, black box, things you don't understand.

    A lot of the threads where I was talking about my theoretical understandings of different kinds of occult practices got deleted though because of the whole occult aspect where people want to hide things. If people just like the mystery because they want to be bewildered the fact I was explaining theories of black magic probably had something to do with it. That's probably also why lots of occultists and especially the Wiccans get really ticked off at chaos magick to be honest too, because they have a theory of black magic, and their theory of black magic is more or less explicitly what I say about black magic: the biggest part of their practice involves intentionally and deliberately trying to forget things and not think about them. That more or less confirms that is, indeed, the core of black magic among actual literal black magicians though, not just "voodoo dolls and hexes" or whatever (voodoo dolls and hexes might not even count as black magic by that standard depending on what exactly you're doing with them.)

    However, the main thing that immediately helped me regarding the Dijkstra article is the idea more knowledge does not mean more understanding, which is what I was trying to connect to Te in socionics to get people to read more about it. It's not so much that people think knowledge is more important than understanding, people generally know understanding is better than memorizing a bunch of trivia, but they think memorizing a bunch of facts will lead them to more knowledge when instead it leads to more extremism. I think you really see that in the world today. The popularity of Trump and Biden is about 35% for both of them even though both of them are actually pretty bipartisan and 25% of people wouldn't even interact with someone who voted for the other candidate if they knew. That's a similar percentage of people to people who think the Earth is flat too, so I just blame that on the Internet.

    But I don't think the Internet itself is directly to blame. All the technologies for the Internet have been around for a long time and the Internet used to literally run on phone lines and radio (= wifi) is old too, computer screens are basically just TV screens which go all the way back to like silent films, and data storage and calculation has existed in a mechanical form since literally Ancient Greece. Originally the Internet was just for academics and military to do research and send stuff to each other on and it didn't really hurt its users so much then (might have hurt some Vietnamese kids or something since the military was involved but none of the current controversies were around.) It seems to be more of a cultural shift driving how people use technology than a direct result of just certain technologies existing. Speaking of TV screens, you see a similar kind of thing with all the corporate broadcasting there. There's not really anything harmful about watching things on a screen but what gets broadcast and recorded for that format is generally very corporate and thus you get all the stereotypes about the boob tube and stupid TV watchers and things like that even though the stereotypes generally only apply to TV addicts and also usually not to people watching the shows that are considered smarter.

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    Shorter heresy: So-called woke moralism is a good thing. I don't agree with it and it caused me lots of heartache too before I understood it serves a purpose. It's just moralism. You can complain about people hiring for toeing the line over competence all you want, but Oppenheimer is still in the cultural zeitgeist. I'd rather my friend's friend have to pretend to be nonbinary for a job and me have to deal with straight up losing a moderately prestigious job because I didn't do anything like that myself than have Elon Musk put a brain chip in everyone's head, which, if you read about him, is very clearly the end-goal of why he's buying Neuralink, xAI, Starlink, SpaceX, etc. and why he changed Twitter to X.com and fired/laid off almost all the employees despite all the money he lost from doing that (he wants to basically own the entire Internet so when he gets an AI he can try to become god of the Universe or whatever. Same reason he tried to do that with Paypal in 1999 though luckily the Paypal founder saw how crazy he was and was just like nope, and same reason he's trying to run OpenAI into the ground now.)

    I would rather there be a bunch of awful Hollywood movies and horror novels about Strong Black Woman beating up White Cisheteropatriarchy than that, especially since awful movies, books, and other entertainment will exist anyway (entertainment just means something that you pay attention to, not necessarily light amusement, super highbrow literature should be entertainment too.) It's basically just post-Christianity in a way. Things like the atomic bomb make the need for some kind of moralizing very clear. I myself have been somewhat preoccupied about the likely potential for people to abuse some things I already know how to do.

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    'Purity . . .' I said. 'The will of the Lord. Honour thy father . . . Am I supposed to forgive him! Orto try to kill him?'
    The answer startled me. I was not aware that I had sent out the thought at large.
    'Let him be,' came the severe, clear pattern from the Sealand woman. 'Your work is to survive.
    Neither his kind, nor his kind of thinking will survive long. They are the crown of creation, they are
    ambition fulfilled—they have nowhere more to go. But life is change, that is how it differs from the
    rocks, change is its very nature. Who, then, were the recent lords of creation, that they should expect
    to remain unchanged?
    'The living form defies evolution at its peril; if it does not adapt, it will be broken. The idea of
    completed man is the supreme vanity: the finished image is a sacrilegious myth.
    'The Old People brought down Tribulation, and were broken into fragments by it. Your father and
    his kind are a part of those fragments. They have become history without being aware of it. They are
    determined still that there is a final form to defend: soon they will attain the stability they strive for, in
    the only form it is granted—a place among the fossils. . . .'
    Her patterns became less harsh and decisive. A kindlier shaping softened them, but, for all that,
    she seemed to be in a mood which required an oracular style of presentation, for she went on:
    'There is comfort in a mother's breast, but there has to be a weaning. The attainment of
    independence, the severing of ties, is, at best, a bleak process for both sides; but it is necessary, even
    though each may grudge it and hold it against the other. The cord has been cut at the other end already;
    it will only be a futile entanglement if you do not cut it at your end, too.
    'Whether harsh intolerance and bitter rectitude are the armour worn over fear and
    disappointment, or whether they are the festival-dress of the sadist, they cover an enemy of the lifeforce. The difference in kind can be bridged only by self-sacrifice; his self-sacrifice, for yours would
    bridge nothing. So, there is the severance. We have a new world to conquer: they have only a lost
    cause to lose.'
    She ceased, leaving me somewhat bemused. Rosalind, too, looked as if she were still catching up
    on it. Petra seemed bored.
    Sophie regarded us curiously. She said:
    'You give an outsider an uncomfortable feeling. Is it something I could know?







    Elon Musk Claims To Be Doctor Strange, But Marvel Director Lets Him Know Otherwise (comicbook.com)

    Liches are wizards because life is always changing, and the only way to get it to stop changing so you can use your bookworm knowledge is to get rid of life entirely and make it die. You don't have to become a lich in fantasy if you want to stay alive, you could reasonably go find the Fountain of Youth in El Dorado or the Philosopher's Stone or the undersea herb that Glaucus used in Greek mythology to become a sea god, but you choose lichdom like Voldemort because you have a problem with life and don't want to die, not because you want to live forever. It's undeath for a reason. That problem with life is that life is evolution, change, and growth by definition. For example, in the human body, you're producing growth hormone and regenerating until you get old. You don't actually stop growing when people think, that's just when growth balances against external forces. You only start to shrink, shrivel, and become elderly when the external forces start to way overtake natural regenerative processes.

    Schrödinger defined life as negentropy (which in turn is actually another word for thermodynamic free energy and thus much more expansive than how people want to treat it with the kind of mindset they've been inoculated with,) which would always be changing, and also explain why all the quests to try to find abiogenesis/life originating from non-life have ended in futility: negentropy will not originate from entropy essentially by definition, as much as people associate any kind of alternative hypothesis to abiogenesis with a desire for religious god-of-the-gaps theories to the point abiogenesis is basically taken for granted even among a lot of the religious.

    Negentropy - Wikipedia

    Rupert Sheldrake and David Bohm on the other hand question that there are even fixed laws of nature rather than the laws of nature themselves evolving over time. If some principle within the Universe that predated anything that would be considered molecular life as NASA defines it is driven by negative entropy, though, the laws of nature would be evolving almost by definition. It's interesting to consider that perhaps evolution and abiogenesis are actually quite possibly diametrically opposed ideas rather than abiogenesis being what its proponents used to consider it, "chemical evolution," and somehow you can be Underpants Gnome but instead it's Life Gnome: 1. Primordial soup 2. ??? 3. Profit! Promissory materialism as Rupert Sheldrake calls it also sounds a lot like Dijkstra's criticisms of black magic, and Turing incidentally has a popular paper on morphogenesis where he attributes it entirely to chemical reactions and not to negentropy or anything.

    it (sheldrake.org)

    In this light, the enemy of liches are mutants, but beware, some liches are mutants too and I don't think we can blame Stranger Things for that idea.





    Lots of things have been inspired by Michael Moorcock's Elric Saga, but none of the things inspired by it have gotten the part where he's sort of a transitional form between Michael Moorcock's version of the Norse elves and the new race of humans that's been popping up, he has a lot of abilities other people don't have and he has a lot of weaknesses other people don't have, the weaknesses cause him to become increasingly sickly and start dying until he gets a sword that's actually a demon in the form of a sword as a sort of Faustian bargain to use to keep himself alive. At first he's really happy to have the sword, Stormbringer, and his brother has Mournblade which is its twin sword that's also a demon, but slowly Stormbringer takes the souls of everyone around Elric since Elric is too attached to it.

    Despite the fact that the Elric saga has inspired everything from Warhammer (40k and Fantasy/Age of Sigmar) to Warcraft (originally supposed to be Warhammer games but they couldn't get the copyright) to the Elder Scrolls universe (used to unabashedly have characters with names like the Eternal Champion) and Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, no one seems to really do anything with the combination of points where Elric is really obviously some kind of mutant, he's an albino and he casts spells with his thoughts which surprises him and he feels and thinks things the other Melniboneáns literally don't know about or understand, but is also a lich with his demon sword ripping out souls and then the demon even rips out the souls of people close to him when he's just addicted to it.

    In A Song of Ice and Fire, all the different aspects like the lord of dragons, the heir of the empire, the cripple with mind powers etc. are just split between different people and often in ways that makes them seem like other things, which is fair, but I still haven't seen the confluence of the beginning of the new thing deciding no, it wants to try to hold onto the old order instead. I've also heard Michael Moorcock say it's partially based on the decline of the British Empire and that might have a little to do with it, people aren't exactly doing that in pseudo-Tolkien fantasy. Pseudo-Tolkien fantasy also has little to do with Tolkien.

    Both Michael Moorcock and George R. R. Martin are pretty curmudgeonly toward Tolkien despite liking Tolkien which seems kind of like karma in a way since Tolkien was curmudgeonly toward everyone else, but I still tend to think that once you put aside all the horrible pseudo-Tolkien fantasies that were made as cash grabs and the fact even Christopher Tolkien his son tried to participate the cash grab to the detriment of Tolkien's work, which means publishing really obviously-unfinished books like the Silmarillion etc., which wasn't unfinished because of the style, the really unfinished parts were just the lack of certain details and the continued inclusion of other ones like the fact the Earth is flat despite in Tolkien's journal he wrote he was working on changing that and that later got parodied as Discworld once fantasy authors decided the Earth has to be canonically flat in fantasy because of Silmarillion even though that's not what Tolkien wanted at all just because that's what greedy Christopher Tolkien decided to publish against Tolkien's wishes for money.

    I guarantee you if you can see through your preconceptions and view Lord of the Rings a little more like the people in the 1960's Tolkien boom would've saw it, or like Star Wars or Dune, you'll like it a lot more than if you just see it colored through pseudo-Tolkien commercial romantic fantasy, even if Tolkien probably deserves a little of the curmudgeonliness toward him because of how he treated other people, and I'm glad I don't have to do it because in this light I tend to think Lord of the Rings is pretty perfect even if most of the things that claim to be based on it are absolute garbage.

    Tolkien and Lewis disliked Snow White. You know who wouldn’t have? - Decent Films

    The Norse Mythology Blog | norsemyth.org: Interview with Michael Moorcock, Part One | Articles & Interviews on Myth & Religion

    GROGNARDIA: How Dragonlance Ruined Everything

    J.R.R. Tolkien on Science Fiction | Mind Matters

    Ordway nicely wraps up her chapter by summarizing Tolkien’s views on the relationship between science fiction and fantasy, writing,
    Tolkien’s willingness to validate the classifying of The Lord of the Rings as a kind of science fiction reminds us of how he viewed the relations between science fiction and the genre within which his epic work is normally placed – namely, fantasy. Tolkien observed that science fiction “performs the same operation as fantasy – it provides Recovery and Escape … and wonder.” …Writers of science fiction, he said, had “replaced the wizard” with the “legendary laboratory professor.” What if the author of Middle-earth, like the contrarian he was, simply reversed that process?

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    Regarding Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's argument about some mediums being fake not meaning all of them are:

    Harry Houdini | Psi Encyclopedia (spr.ac.uk)

    Of course, the argument I would prefer to make doesn't have much to do with mediumship or even fortune-telling, but sometimes those are more of the same thing as the sci-fi psionics kind of thing than some of us would want them to be, aren't they?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    More heresy:

    Te As Ideological Function (the16types.info)

    This thread where I quote Dijkstra is an example of how I really got into computing recently. I've had a little bit of an interest off and on, and I've had a little tiny bit of experience through silly things like playing ROBLOX when I was much younger (though it wasn't popular then, I was at least in the target age range) and making HTML webpages and then having my parents try to get me to learn Java (life pro tip: don't try to learn Java unless you have something really specific you want to do with Java, just learn Python, I haven't finished learning Python yet but it's still very clearly better in almost every way) but Dijkstra basically dispelled all the really negative opinions of computing in general I had.

    I heard about Dijkstra when I got horribly sick, fell way behind in my classes, and then showed up to one of my professor's office hours and saw that she had Python books everywhere. Some people were telling me to learn Python before then and I also wanted to learn Python for Audacity as silly as that is, but people also agreed I should just learn Python in general, you don't really need Java or all those other languages so much if you learn Python (you probably still need C/C++ if you're doing things that are complicated enough for it though) since Python works for scripting and programming and I've heard specifically it's basically Lua (aka the language ROBLOX gets kids to script for them in for free/underpaid) but with different punctuation too.

    Then I said if I got a job applying math I would do AI (though I think everyone just wants me to be an actuary or something because they don't understand lots of people in math go into computing,) but I disagree with how the computer science people I met were doing AI when they showed up to math club to talk about it. My professor said that what I was talking about is something people also do and then she sent me one of Dijkstra's papers (a different one.) Then I started reading a lot of Dijkstra papers and enjoyed them because it's a completely different Weltanschauung (to use the pretentious word) than anything I've encountered before, it definitely doesn't seem like a bunch of sweaty hackers or corporate slavedrivers, despite the fact there are people who like those ideas and would take offense that I said "sweaty hackers" and "corporate slavedrivers." (Not that all professional hackers or business owners are remotely like that but everyone knows what kind of people I mean. The so-called heroes of Silly-Con Valley.)

    Now I tend to see Turing as the apex of really what's wrong with computing. Dijkstra goes after Turing and he goes after "black magic" in the tech bro kind of culture but he never makes the connection. Even if you want to believe in clairvoyance, Turing didn't want to be critical of the literal dockside fortune-teller in a random tent because that would require him to have some understanding of what fortune-telling hypothetically is and Turing just wanted to sort of play with fire and things he doesn't understand. Dijkstra says black magic along with black box and that's been how I understood the idea of black magic for a while now, I've even expressly said it on 16t, I just wasn't willing to extend the idea to anything more mainstream than literal occultism (even if literal occultism is not all that rare.) Black magic, black box, things you don't understand.

    A lot of the threads where I was talking about my theoretical understandings of different kinds of occult practices got deleted though because of the whole occult aspect where people want to hide things. If people just like the mystery because they want to be bewildered the fact I was explaining theories of black magic probably had something to do with it. That's probably also why lots of occultists and especially the Wiccans get really ticked off at chaos magick to be honest too, because they have a theory of black magic, and their theory of black magic is more or less explicitly what I say about black magic: the biggest part of their practice involves intentionally and deliberately trying to forget things and not think about them. That more or less confirms that is, indeed, the core of black magic among actual literal black magicians though, not just "voodoo dolls and hexes" or whatever (voodoo dolls and hexes might not even count as black magic by that standard depending on what exactly you're doing with them.)

    However, the main thing that immediately helped me regarding the Dijkstra article is the idea more knowledge does not mean more understanding, which is what I was trying to connect to Te in socionics to get people to read more about it. It's not so much that people think knowledge is more important than understanding, people generally know understanding is better than memorizing a bunch of trivia, but they think memorizing a bunch of facts will lead them to more knowledge when instead it leads to more extremism. I think you really see that in the world today. The popularity of Trump and Biden is about 35% for both of them even though both of them are actually pretty bipartisan and 25% of people wouldn't even interact with someone who voted for the other candidate if they knew. That's a similar percentage of people to people who think the Earth is flat too, so I just blame that on the Internet.

    But I don't think the Internet itself is directly to blame. All the technologies for the Internet have been around for a long time and the Internet used to literally run on phone lines and radio (= wifi) is old too, computer screens are basically just TV screens which go all the way back to like silent films, and data storage and calculation has existed in a mechanical form since literally Ancient Greece. Originally the Internet was just for academics and military to do research and send stuff to each other on and it didn't really hurt its users so much then (might have hurt some Vietnamese kids or something since the military was involved but none of the current controversies were around.) It seems to be more of a cultural shift driving how people use technology than a direct result of just certain technologies existing. Speaking of TV screens, you see a similar kind of thing with all the corporate broadcasting there. There's not really anything harmful about watching things on a screen but what gets broadcast and recorded for that format is generally very corporate and thus you get all the stereotypes about the boob tube and stupid TV watchers and things like that even though the stereotypes generally only apply to TV addicts and also usually not to people watching the shows that are considered smarter.
    Te is just the dynamic movement of objects and how they impact each other; it's kind of primitive in comparison to Ti which is where you do get ideology from as it creates structures, laws, and ranks.

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    Trasumanar (neologism): Moon, Paradiso 1

    Claiming that his ascent from the Terrestrial Paradise to the celestial realm of the blessed cannot be expressed adequately in words, Dante invents the word trasumanar ("to transhumanize, to pass beyond the human"), the first of many neologisms in the Paradiso. He compares the internal transformation he undergoes during this ascent to the change experienced by Glaucus, a fisherman-turned-god whose story contains several parallels with Dante's journey. Glaucus found a piece of land along the shore that was completely untouched by human civilization, a place of pristine beauty. He observed that the fish he caught became animated as soon as they touched the grass and that they then escaped en masse back into the water. Understandably amazed, Glaucus chewed several blades of the grass; seized with an irresistible longing for the sea, he bid the earth farewell and dove into the water, where he was received by the sea gods and "deemed worthy to join their company." Glaucus was then purified of his mortal elements and cleansed of sin (after reciting a charm nine times and immersing himself in one hundred rivers), thus becoming immortal himself. As a sea god Glaucus fell in love with Scylla, but the girl rejected his love and was turned into a monster (her lower body transformed into a pack of dogs) by the enchantress Circe after she, in turn, had been rebuffed by Glaucus (who had gone to her for assistance in winning the love of Scylla) (Ovid, Met. 13.900-14.69).
    Trasumanar (neologism) (utexas.edu)


    61
    62
    63
    And suddenly it seemed that day to day
    Was added, as if He who has the power
    Had with another sun the heaven adorned.




    64
    65
    66
    With eyes upon the everlasting wheels
    Stood Beatrice all intent, and I, on her
    Fixing my vision from above removed,




    67
    68
    69
    Such at her aspect inwardly became
    As Glaucus, tasting of the herb that made him
    Peer of the other gods beneath the sea.




    70
    71
    72
    To represent transhumanise in words
    Impossible were; the example, then, suffice
    Him for whom Grace the experience reserves.


    Dante Lab at Dartmouth College: Reader

    The slug in the video above is called Glaucus atlanticus or blue glaucus. It might look like a Pokémon, but you shouldn't touch it, because it picks up tentacles in the ocean and it can eject them at you and kill you. In fact, you wouldn't touch a wild Pokémon, because if Pokémon were real they could probably kill you if you aren't careful and didn't use your Pokéball or whatever to approach them, so its appearance is actually pretty useful.


    Faust:
    Alas, what am I, if I can
    Not reach for mankind's crown which merely
    mocks
    Our senses' craving like a star?

    Mephisto:
    You're in the end -- just what you are!
    Put wigs on with a million locks
    And put your foot on ell-high socks,
    You still remain just what you are.

    Faust:
    I feel, I gathered up and piled up high
    In vain the treasures of the human mind:
    When I sit down at last, I cannot find
    New strength within -- it is all dry.
    My stature has not grown a whit,
    No closer to the Infinite.

    -- Lines 1803-1815, The First Part of the Tragedy, Faust
    Jared Unzipped: A Faustian Memory.

    I did not see his real difficulty. After all, God, being omnipotent, could cause anything He liked. Itried to explain this to Uncle Axel, but he shook his head.
    'We've got to believe that God is sane, Davie boy. We'd be lost indeed if we didn't do that. But
    whatever happened out there'—he waved his hand round the horizon at large—'what happened there
    was not sane—not sane at all. It was something vast, yet something beneath the wisdom of God. So
    what was it? What can it have been?'
    'But Tribulation—' I began.
    Uncle Axel moved impatiently. 'A word,' he said, 'a rusted mirror, reflecting nothing. It'd do the
    preachers good to see it for themselves. They'd not understand, but they might begin to think. They
    might begin to ask themselves: "What are we doing? What are we preaching? What were the Old
    People really like? What was it they did to bring this frightful disaster down upon themselves and all
    the world?" And after a bit they might begin to say: "Are we right? Tribulation has made the world a
    different place; can we, therefore, ever hope to build in it the kind of world the Old People lost?
    Should we try to? What would be gained if we were to build it up again so exactly that it culminated
    in another Tribulation?" For it is clear, boy, that however wonderful the Old People were, they were
    not too wonderful to make mistakes—and nobody knows, or is ever likely to know, where they were
    wise and where they were mistaken.'
    Much of what he was saying went right over my head, but I thought I caught its gist. I said:
    'But, Uncle, if we don't try to be like the Old People and rebuild the things that have been lost,
    what can we do?'
    'Well, we might try being ourselves, and build for the world that is, instead of for one that's
    gone,' he suggested.
    'I don't think I understand,' I told him. 'You mean not bother about the True Line or the True
    Image? Not mind about Deviations?'
    'Not quite that,' he said, and then looked sidelong at me. 'You heard some heresy from your aunt;
    well, here's a bit more, from your uncle. What do you think it is that makes a man a man?'
    I started on the Definition. He cut me off after five words.
    'It is not!' he said. 'A wax figure could have all that, and he'd still be a wax figure, wouldn't he?'
    'I suppose he would.'
    'Well, then, what makes a man a man is something inside him.'
    'A soul?' I suggested.
    'No,' he said, 'souls are just counters for churches to collect, all the same value, like nails. No,
    what makes man man is mind; it's not a thing, it's a quality, and minds aren't all the same value; they're
    better or worse, and the better they are, the more they mean. See where we're going?'
    'No,' I admitted.
    'It's this way, Davie, I reckon the church people are more or less right about most deviations—
    only not for the reasons they say. They're right because most deviations aren't any good. Say they did
    allow a deviation to live like us, what'd be the good of it? Would a dozen arms and legs, or a couple
    of heads, or eyes like telescopes give him any more of the quality that makes him a man? They would
    not. Man got his physical shape—the true image, they call it—before he even knew he was man at all.
    It's what happened inside, after that, that made him human. He discovered he had what nothing else
    had, mind. That put him on a different level. Like a lot of the animals he was physically pretty nearly
    as good as he needed to be; but he had this new quality, mind, which was only in its early stages, and
    he developed that. That was the only thing he could usefully develop; it's the only way open to him—
    to develop new qualities of mind.' Uncle Axel paused reflectively. 'There was a doctor on my second
    ship who talked that way, and the more I got to thinking it over, the more I reckoned it was the way
    that made sense. Now, as I see it, some way or another you and Rosalind and the others have got a
    new quality of mind. To pray God to take it away is wrong; it's like asking Him to strike you blind, or
    make you deaf. I know what you're up against, Davie, but funking it isn't the way out. There isn't an
    easy way out. You have to come to terms with it. You'll have to face it and decide that, since that's the
    way things are with you, what is the best use you can make of it and still keep yourselves safe?'
    I did not, of course, follow him clearly through that the first time. Some of it stayed in my mind,
    the rest of it I reconstructed in half-memory from later talks. I began to understand better later on,
    particularly after Michael had gone to school.





    Transhumanism is all in the mind. You're in the end—just what you are! Put a brain chip in your head, replace your limbs with robot arms instead, you still remain just what you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Te is just the dynamic movement of objects and how they impact each other; it's kind of primitive in comparison to Ti which is where you do get ideology from as it creates structures, laws, and ranks.
    Perhaps, but people who focus on "objects" and primitive things are the ones who become extremists. I linked the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    Perhaps, but people who focus on "objects" and primitive things are the ones who become extremists. I linked the article.
    Supposedly Islam is an incredibly F- (Se) religion, so, you aren't wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Supposedly Islam is an incredibly F- (Se) religion, so, you aren't wrong.
    I don't think Islam is the real religion and it certainly has a lot of extremists, but at least Muslims just want things like virgins and wine in paradise. If you want real extremism try Calvinism! Let's analyze that in terms of socionics! I haven't read the Handmaid's Tale yet but it seems like it might be an accurate description of Calvinism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    I don't think Islam is the real religion and it certainly has a lot of extremists, but at least Muslims just want things like virgins and wine in paradise. If you want real extremism try Calvinism! Let's analyze that in terms of socionics! I haven't read the Handmaid's Tale yet but it seems like it might be an accurate description of Calvinism.
    Had to Google it, seems like a hardcore sort of D subtype of Christianity; I think subtypes of religions are a thing anyway. It is kind of funny since basic Christianity is in its essence opposed to violence, or at least that's what I was taught here in America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    Had to Google it, seems like a hardcore sort of D subtype of Christianity; I think subtypes of religions are a thing anyway. It is kind of funny since basic Christianity is in its essence opposed to violence, or at least that's what I was taught here in America.
    Yeah I think the dissonance causes it to become way more extreme than basically anything, like it has to become some sort of complete inversion of Christianity to even try to maintain coherence and then it just asks you not to think about it. There aren't all that many Calvinist extremist movements yet but they've been gaining a lot of traction infiltrating the Southern Baptist church and now they've been gaining steam within the Methodist church which is ridiculous because the Methodist church is officially, formally, foundationally Arminian. However, how many people really learn what the doctrines of their denomination are nowadays? They barely even read the Bible or know the hymns. Biblical references which would've been common historically are often just not understood nowadays or worse, seen as some kind of sign of extremism or craziness themselves just because it's the Bible regardless of what it's saying and how figuratively the person might mean it.

    Whenever people say "Christian nationalists" I think they're being rather disingenuous, not because those two words should be put together in any other context, but because it implicitly lays the blame on Christianity itself when I'm very sure they're just describing Calvinism, an actual official doctrine which many people are actively committed to spreading, 100% of the time.

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    Thinking about evolution in biology reminds me how I ended up on some Soviet fringe psychology site at all. I don't know how it isn't common sense at this point that Darwin's theory of evolution is just flat wrong. Evolution definitely and obviously occurs (despite the protests of the so-called "creation science" and "intelligent design" crowds,) sure, but it doesn't occur due to random mutations and natural selection. In fact, it's been found recently that natural selection appears to select for things to stay the same more often than for them to change. My heretical opinion is that Goethe basically invented the first version of evolution that's even remotely modern and he did it before Charles Darwin was even born so Darwin is just a noncontender here, but even Lamarck's version of evolution is more accurate than Darwin's despite being an oversimplication that sometimes leads to silly results. Then that reminds me that the Soviets stated that they officially believed in Lamarck and not Darwin and that makes me even more forgiving of myself for having spent any of my time or energy on this site and theory than even how useful a lot of the things I've learned have turned out to be in real life (which are generally not orthodox socionics doctrines so much as a lot of the psychoanalytic methods themselves, socionics manages to sort of reconcile Jung and Freud as well as add math to it and that's really impressive even if you probably shouldn't use everything Aushra or Gulenko says, never mind using all these minor socionists' ideas verbatim.)

    Why did Darwin’s 20th-century followers get evolution so wrong? | Aeon Essays

    During the past century, discoveries that have challenged the gradualist view of evolution have been sidelined, forgotten, and derided. This includes the work of 20th-century geneticists such as Hugo de Vries, one of the rediscoverers of Mendelian genetics and the man who gave us the term ‘mutation’, or Richard Goldschmidt, who distinguished between microevolution (change within a species) and macroevolution (changes leading to new species). Their findings were ignored or ridiculed to convey the message that the gradual accumulation of random mutations was the only reasonable explanation for evolution. We can see the absence of other perspectives in popular works by Richard Dawkins, such as The Selfish Gene (1976), The Extended Phenotype (1982), and The Blind Watchmaker (1986); or in textbooks used in universities across the world, such as Evolution (2017) by Douglas Futuyma and Mark Kirkpatrick. However, it’s an absence that’s particularly conspicuous because alternatives to random mutation have not been difficult to find.

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    Romanticism in science - Wikipedia

    When categorizing the many disciplines of science that developed during this period, Romantics believed that explanations of various phenomena should be based upon vera causa, which meant that already known causes would produce similar effects elsewhere.[2]: 15  It was also in this way that Romanticism was very anti-reductionist: they did not believe that inorganic sciences were at the top of the hierarchy but at the bottom, with life sciences next and psychology placed even higher.[2]: 19  This hierarchy reflected Romantic ideals of science because the whole organism takes more precedence over inorganic matter, and the intricacies of the human mind take even more precedence since the human intellect was sacred and necessary to understanding nature around it and reuniting with it.
    This hierarchy is also the hierarchy of topics people mess up, because they are harder and you have to earn them. I would have a hard time even counting the number of flat-out incorrect things I've heard in my biology courses while in physics and chemistry I don't remember them saying anything that's flat-out wrong at all, just some silly and ineffectual teaching methods occasionally at worst. On the other hand if you're Comte and the positivists you just go like "well, biology and psychology are so hard because you can't be positively certain of them and that's why we're going to call ourselves positivists!" and that's stupid. There are entire books dedicated to using mathematics in biology and psychology and a lot of it is reasoning from first principles too. I've seen some more complicated biological math than a lot of what's used in particle physics and astrophysics, but there aren't any PBS documentaries about mathematical biology so people don't really feel inclined to go into it. Instead they feel inclined to just be dismissive of it and say it's impossible rather than that it's more difficult and they don't want to do it.



    ...Not really. What about biophysics? What about materials science like what could be used to make better computers and other cool technology? What about the double-slit experiment which actually existed for an entire century before quantum physics even existed as an optics experiment so it's a two-century-old problem at this point? Physical Review X has 164 papers just about magnetism, you know, good old-fashioned magnetism, but probably not in the form of horseshoe magnets that most people think of. There are 29 about mechanics and 23 about acoustics, and while there are 559 about quantum mechanics, there are only 19 about string theory which is literally less than the number about mechanics or acoustics. You wouldn't guess that from all the NOVA documentaries. Cosmology fares even worse and has merely 12, though astrophysics more broadly at least manages to have 45 and it's probably all about things like nanoparticles in meteor dust and cosmic ray collisions that have immediate use to space programs. Optics is 253, materials science is 207, biological physics is 183. A lot of the other disciplines on there that are more popular than the sensationalist stuff are also reassuring. Chemical physics, superconductivity, and graphene sound a lot more important than cosmology that seems to always be being debunked. Last time I tried talking about cosmology on the Internet I got banned from r/Physics because they didn't like that I had an alternative hypothesis to dark matter but I couldn't come in like "I am a PhD. cosmologist AMA" even if I wanted to. Don't go on Reddit.

    Physical Review X - Browse by Subject (aps.org)

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    An example of wrong information frequently taught in biology class: the idea that rolling your tongue is genetic. While there are certainly genes involved in tongue formation, anyone with a normal tongue (nothing missing, no weird piercings, etc.) who isn't a drooling idiot can learn to roll up their tongue. Many people learn to roll it up in the course of the class. There's this one site I read back in high school that I want to find again that pointed out the only readily-observable single-gene trait in humans is wet vs. dry earwax and no one wants kids pulling out their earwax in class to look at it, but since in Japan wet earwax is called cat earwax here's a picture of kittens so people can look at kittens instead of looking at earwax. In fact googling that just now got me to that site again, woohoo.

    Myths of Human Genetics: Earwax (udel.edu)

    Conclusion

    Unlike most of the human characters that are used to demonstrate simple genetics principles, wet vs. dry earwax really is controlled by one gene with two alleles. Several factors make it especially attractive as a classroom topic: the gene has been identified, the biochemical basis for the variation is fairly well understood, there is evidence for strong natural selection, and there are links to human health (body odor and possibly cancer). There are, however, two problems with using earwax type in classroom exercises. One is that the allele for dry earwax has a frequency in western European populations of 10 to 20 percent, and it is virtually absent from African populations. Because dry earwax is recessive, this means that a classroom of students of European and African ancestry may show no variation; everyone could have wet earwax. Classrooms in northern China or Korea, on the other hand, may contain only students with dry earwax, because the allele for dry earwax is at nearly 100 percent in those areas.
    The second problem with using earwax type in a genetics exercise is that having a bunch of students sitting in a classroom, digging wax out of their ears and waving it around, would be kind of disgusting.
    Sadly, my mom based a lot of her ideas of how things were in life on incorrect simplifications of genetics and even worse was she got lots of them from some kind of genetics elective in college so if you challenged her, it didn't matter even if you showed her a scientific paper, she would just shoot you down without even looking and insist there was a "height gene" and a "weight gene" and all sorts of other nonexistent genes, though at least that doesn't begin to compare to some of my other relatives who have expressed their belief in "sports genes" and "gardening genes." As to why it's all in past tense, well, why do you think it's all in past tense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    but I couldn't come in like "I am a PhD. cosmologist AMA" even if I wanted to.
    Why not? What’s your alternative dark matter theory? When I took a deep dive into the end times rabbit hole, I came across this video https://youtu.be/1SPxtkJ06GQ?feature=shared

    At 7:16 she says dark matter brings up the bad in you and pushes down the good in you, but maybe it’s a (dark) matter of forming habbits
    Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 03-13-2024 at 12:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche View Post
    Why not? What’s your alternative dark matter theory? When I took a deep dive into the end times rabbit hole, I came across this video https://youtu.be/1SPxtkJ06GQ?feature=shared

    At 7:16 she says dark matter brings up the bad in you and pushes down the good in you, but maybe it’s a (dark) matter of forming habbits
    Extrapolations from braneworld theory. Bosonic matter is confined to a 3-dimensional surface called a brane which is warped in higher-dimensional space, but gravity and gravitons aren't in many models. Since the brane is folded over in 3-dimensional space, gravitons from normal bosonic matter will just travel through higher-dimensional space and interact in a different way than everything else kind of like matter is a sort of shadow puppet casting a shadow on itself across the higher-dimensional space, but there's probably no new kind of matter or particles in my opinion.

    Seeing as Einstein was hesitant to even use the fourth dimension in relativity because he didn't just want his theory to be seen as spiritualism or H. G. Wells, I find it pretty understandable why I'd be banned from r/Physics (even though I just shouldn't have been on Reddit to begin with) for bringing up ideas where the best comparison is probably A Wrinkle in Time even if it's based on legit things I've read. The popular audience is likely to misunderstand it and r/Physics is trying to present itself as an official source, not a discussion forum, even if lots of the things they post are more obviously wrong than that because they don't have the same kinds of connotations.

    The occult roots of higher-dimensional research in physics | Aeon Essays

    This is really just yet another example of the fact that most things that seem like silly bureaucracies and silly moralism such as "wokeness" ultimately have a good reason for existence even if they clearly aren't all good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdbrain View Post
    Extrapolations from braneworld theory. Bosonic matter is confined to a 3-dimensional surface called a brane which is warped in higher-dimensional space, but gravity and gravitons aren't in many models. Since the brane is folded over in 3-dimensional space, gravitons from normal bosonic matter will just travel through higher-dimensional space and interact in a different way than everything else kind of like matter is a sort of shadow puppet casting a shadow on itself across the higher-dimensional space, but there's probably no new kind of matter or particles in my opinion.

    Seeing as Einstein was hesitant to even use the fourth dimension in relativity because he didn't just want his theory to be seen as spiritualism or H. G. Wells, I find it pretty understandable why I'd be banned from r/Physics (even though I just shouldn't have been on Reddit to begin with) for bringing up ideas where the best comparison is probably A Wrinkle in Time even if it's based on legit things I've read. The popular audience is likely to misunderstand it and r/Physics is trying to present itself as an official source, not a discussion forum, even if lots of the things they post are more obviously wrong than that because they don't have the same kinds of connotations.

    The occult roots of higher-dimensional research in physics | Aeon Essays

    This is really just yet another example of the fact that most things that seem like silly bureaucracies and silly moralism such as "wokeness" ultimately have a good reason for existence even if they clearly aren't all good.
    Thanks, that’s very interesting. I feel like reading again what you wrote in the first paragraph and coming up with questions!
    Regarding the three dimensions in physics, I thought it accounts for more of them, just like mathematics do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep View Post
    I would commit the action of being a Quadra Traitor and stick my dick in a Gamma if they weren't lacking in sex appeal.
    make a typing thread + video, for there may still be hope that this would not be an act of treachery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche View Post
    Thanks, that’s very interesting. I feel like reading again what you wrote in the first paragraph and coming up with questions!
    Regarding the three dimensions in physics, I thought it accounts for more of them, just like mathematics do!
    It does but different models use them in different ways. Some of the braneworld models specifically state that bosonic matter is confined (attached) to branes (in this case, basically the 3-dimensional visible Universe) but gravitons are not. The first time I heard of that was the Randall-Sundrum 2 model but I've also heard since then that they weren't the first ones to come up with that idea.

    That probably still has no bearing on whether or not having dark spiritual energy attracts dark matter to you or not. Maybe gravity also weighs you down even if there are a few legitimate reasons with different resulting models why a small minority of heretics think dark matter and/or dark energy aren't new kinds of substances.

    Pop culture NOVA physics sucks but Reddit probably still manages to suck more. The unholy confluence of the two is proof that every day we stray further from God's light.

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