I felt the need to register the findings about my experience with a true dual. I don't expect anyone to agree, comply, sympathize, follow or complement this thread, but feel free to comment if you want.
Notes on my experience with duality
I felt the need to register the findings about my experience with a true dual. I don't expect anyone to agree, comply, sympathize, follow or complement this thread, but feel free to comment if you want.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
When we really want something/someone, we always make room for them.
My dual said she's so busy that she will have to skip classes in order to see me at my place. I'm flattered
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Duality is a communication between conscious and unconscious functions between partners, so it is common that sometimes what one says may seem ambiguous at times, but usually your first impression is usually what they mean, because that is what your unconscious received before the conscious functions started to give alternate meanings. That's something interesting I've noticed.
It's like you get a deep sense of what they're saying even though you can't explain why they mean that.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Communication between duals is not as efficient as between identicals. As a low dimentionality function, the inferior needs the duals care when explaining topics related to the dominant-inferior dynamics. The chemistry happens when both don't try to impress and just speak calmly and without filtering too much.
On the other hand, sometimes you can use your creative function to get them to smile, or just activate them. It's not in a manipulative sense though, you just feel like pushing their buttons a little
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I like this point a lot, that it's actually a bit less efficient than you'd think from the descriptions!! Maybe it changes once you've been with them for years..?Originally Posted by Hermes Trismegistus
My experience is a bit different: I see where my identicals and my mirrors are coming from so their true motives I understand and fully defend before other people, but communication is not always as smooth as with a dual. I have group-based experience with my dual (which is good for real-time comparison to others) and it got so good to the point at times they were smiling with complicity before I finished the sentence.
The thread is interesting, I'll keep on reading
You're right. When I wrote that post, I was acquainted with very similar identicals only. Nowadays I've been able to spot dissimilar identicals, so we end up having the same perspective, interests, and coming to similar conclusions, but there's still some dissonance in cognition which is not directly type related.My experience is a bit different: I see where my identicals and my mirrors are coming from so their true motives I understand and fully defend before other people, but communication is not always as smooth as with a dual. I have group-based experience with my dual (which is good for real-time comparison to others) and it got so good to the point at times they were smiling with complicity before I finished the sentence.
The thread is interesting, I'll keep on reading
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Texting with most people tends to be boring over time, but with complementary types it tends to be better and intriguing. I just had an amazing convo with an ST about trust and we both agreed we trust each other 10/10. That feels amazing
The closer the psychological distance the better
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Once the dual is gone, you're gonna go back to the old ways pretty quickly, and that will probably make you dissatisfied with yourself and your life. There starts a process of slow fade until you found another dual. I'd say one month is enough for you to feel like you were taken out from a parallel reality and back to ordinary life. Your insecurities will also tend to come back rather quickly.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Being close to a dual long term has taught me that the best way to talk to somebody is usually finding a topic that is meaningful to both people. Usually duals will find the same topics meaningful but will have complementary views or strengths, so the exchange of information is both meaningful and high quality as perceived subjectively. The thing about duality is that it gives a sense of variety since almost everything you find meaningful is at least respectful and deserves attention from the other part. That sincere attention and appreciation is one of the best feelings one can experience as a person.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Damn, the fact that a dual can't do things you consider absurdly easy is kinda irritating. Like giving lengthy feedbacks about one's strengths and weaknesses, giving recommendations, being emotionally vulnerable, giving compliments, being aware of how much time has passed and intuitive sense of time.
These are all things I always took for granted, and seeing someone not being able to do it, makes me kinda confused.
On the other hand, having someone with the same capabilities makes me feel useless or gives a sense of rivalry. So, what do I want?
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I like it, makes me feel useful for once, haha.
I think if it's an incompatible/immature dual it irks me, but if it's a compatible dual it just feels like the natural flow of things (and i like how they don't mind my weak spots in turn)
PS nice thread
How long have you known her for? Is it your first deeper/LT duality?
Edit: and do you know your/her DCNH subtypes?
Last edited by persimmonism; 11-02-2023 at 04:02 PM.
I've known for a long time, but I've started seeing her frequently for the last 6 months, and we've started to click in the last 2 months I guess. But we always had an easy time and ease of interaction. We just didn't know we had so much in common until we actually started opening up about our values and interests.
She's not the first dual, but she's the first really compatible in terms of upbringing, education, intelligence and interests.
Idk our DCNH.
I don't expect it to change, but it's not a big deal really. The fact that she finds most of what I say super interesting makes me feel the most special human being alive lol
We match incredibly well, it's insane. In the beginning I thought she was too simple and there wouldn't be much she would add to my supposedly complete and independent life, but I noticed that she adds a different flavor to my life. Even before we clicked, I always had an internal feeling of joy when I talked to her.
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-02-2023 at 10:18 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I've spent 6 hours talking to my dual and it felt like 10 minutes. Not bragging, I'm just impressed at how fast things are happening right now, and thinking that we couldn't barely hold a 10 min convo in the beginning cause we were both shy of being judged due to being very different people.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Some possible and likely signs of duality:
1. Oftentimes when you're communicating, especially on the street among other people, you have a feeling of elation and blurry peripheral vision. It feels like a space navigation through a colourful nebula and your senses get stronger.
2. Common feeling of internal joy, even if you don't communicate much, as can probably happen in the beginning when you are not fully surrendered and you have filters.
3. Spontaneous and common moments of laughter.
4. Spontaneous playful communication.
5. You may notice outsiders staring at both of you with admiration as you randomly switch your focus away from the dual.
6. You may forget they're next to you, sporadically.
7. Talking for hours can feel like minutes.
8. Mutual correction. They prevent you from making stupid mistakes with their expertise on your weaknesses.
9. Sometimes you feel like smiling or laughing by just watching, staring or listening to them. There's something unconscious about their behavior that triggers this fascination.
10. You feel disappointed that they can't do what seems effortless to you. You never receive what you give. Giving and receiving come in different currencies.
11. When they're apart and you think about them, you may start to cry. Little things that remind them makes you feel emotional.
12. You don't need to work to impress them. Your existence is already impressive.
13. You may feel insecure when you discover their strengths.
14. Arguments and misunderstandings take very little effort to get resolved.
15. You rarely if ever get bored with them (this is mutual). Everything seems either relaxing or challenging.
16. They induce you into making mistakes, but learning with those mistakes very quickly. You fail a lot, but once only.
17. (Maybe personal) you can share basically anything with them. Including memes, songs, series/movies recommendations, tastes.
18. You can discuss virtually anything imaginable. From recipes to philosophy.
19. Sometimes you may feel slightly uncomfortable when they discuss something, as if they were messing with your unconscious, but this depends on your level of exposure to complementary types.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
> TIM Huxley
your type is INFP
Experience in some IR pair is more interesting when it's >3 years long, as on short time you are much affected by sexual attraction to support relations.
> signs of duality
sympathy, more feeling of inner harmony, more energy, self-esteem, more positive perception of life and yourself
> your senses get stronger
As you have N so communications with S types may activate your S related info in consciousness.
Mb also a part of general activation effect. Which can be not from good IR only.
So should I wait 2 and a half years before making this thread?
Btw, thanks for the input. I'm kinda curious to know why you think I'm an introvert (especially IEI).
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
At this stage we realized that our interests match perfectly. We have been exchanging books, movies, series, music, poems, etc, and she recommended a series that was created by a guy I think is my identical. For a while I thought "isn't she actually my identical?" But no, we are pretty much opposites (e.g. she's cold, logical and down to earth, and can't do what I do) despite the matching interests. I don't know how that's possible. This just seems like accumulated karma, and feels like magic
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 10-28-2023 at 03:12 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Thanks for your input! Looking forward to any updates
She said I'm abnormal because I can't remember tastes, smells, and sensations. She said it's normal to be able to do that, part of being human. Now I feel deficient, but not offended lol. I told her it has to do with her being a sensing type, but she didn't believe me...yet.
Whenever we're talking she said she forgets time. That's probably related to the constant tickling on her suggestive.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I think losing track of time while talking might be more a duality thing. I also lose track of time as a Ni type, blinking and the sun has set, blinking again and it's re-risen..
Ftr just as comparison, i never lose track of time. I didn't know other people do, sometimes it's also unnerving, like i may wake up while sleeping due to some noise and i will guess what time is it and how much i can still sleep etc
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
i am oddly pretty similar. Unless I am significantly sleep deprived, I almost always wake up before the alarm goes off. For me, I think wearing a wearing a watch almost 24/7 for nearly 20 years made me even more acutely aware of time.
Insane ENTj. That's freaky! I'm getting chills, you human clock you. (jk)
Its not something I can control. Sometimes I even don't like it, it would be nicer and more enjoyable.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
We both absolutely love these three songs. The first is my favorite, which I shared with her and it became one of her favorites as well. The second one was my guess about what I thought she loved and she confessed she loves it - it's actually one of her favorite, so I'm posting too. The third we both loved but had never said until recently.
https://youtu.be/DDdByJYUVeA?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/4fndeDfaWCg?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/izGwDsrQ1eQ?feature=shared
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-02-2023 at 10:49 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I have finally understood part of the purpose of Si: making the memorable past ever present, eternal, full of sensations and meaning, smells, sounds and impressions. I said part because this function also works in the present giving subjective sensory impressions, but I still haven't figured it yet. Upcoming next
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-06-2023 at 07:18 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
That is correct.
That is something i've tried to unlock because it's there, but it is hazy in the memory lane department, trying to stroll thru it. It's very vague.
My wife is a grounding tether to reality - the now and here. Otherwise the gaze is wide making it hard to focus on tangibility, narrowly in scope. I live vicariously thru that channel.
So:
The real and the ethereal stroll together
The appeal is a forged forever
They bowl thru the knolls in grounded cover
One says i see, and the other said, now i do know
Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies
Taking thing at face value is good only for a spell
Watch out for the quicksand, an hour glass isn't worth watching when the cook is done
Pick a straw man, and you'll find a scared crow
My dual said she feels uncomfortable when I talk about abstract philosophical and existencial topics. I don't know what to do about that, cause it's really important to me, and sometimes I just feel like rambling about less tangible aspects of life. I really didn't expect that coming. But in retrospect, with my first duality experience, I remember I often got irritated by her extensive focus on sensations. So maybe I should wait, and not pressure her so much on this.
Edit: she also freezes when I give her compliments, and she said she's not used to so much impacting words. But most of what I say I consider second nature, so it's very amusing!
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-06-2023 at 11:41 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Part of the purpose of dual relations is teaching you the difference between YOU and the WORLD. Learning and understanding your true values makes your life meaningful. How is the process of getting to know your true values? By the process of dualization. You need to talk extensively to your dual about your perspective on life, and your dual is supposed to clarify those aspects of your life that you have mixed up by societal expectations. You realize you're starting to know who you are when suddenly every word you say makes you feel something deep inside. You become more human, and others will sense that.
I don't know if dual relations are meant to be long lasting yet, but the process of discussing worldviews, desires, plans, expectations, tastes, likes and dislikes, memories, and feelings with them is what clears your mind and makes you a truer human being, by embracing your limitations, defects and feeling no shame.
Edit: identical relations have the purpose of showing who you are not. But duality gives a more complete panorama, since there are parts of you that you are not aware they exist, and they haven't probably been given the chance to manifest in you. Identicals also help you understand your place in the world, and what you're naturally good at, and the dual will ask for your help in your most natural inclinations.
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-08-2023 at 01:01 AM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Sometimes I feel that we're identicals. We're so damn similar in so many aspects. Yet, our cognitive abilities are completely complementary. Also she doesn't "get" everything I say right away, as my identical friends. But the more I know her, the more I feel mesmerized by her intelligence. At this point, I'm really divided on whether we are identicals or really duals, despite our opposite cognitive abilities. Hmmm I just can't accept the fact that she feels impacted by my words of affirmation, she doesn't know how to give compliments and she almost doesn't have any intuition, or maybe I'm not able to perceive it. She doesn't understand double entendres, she doesn't get indirect communication, she doesn't think much in abstract terms. Yeah, for a nanosecond I've considered the possibility of identity relations, but it's almost impossible.
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-08-2023 at 09:30 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
In today's almost 4 hour intense convo, she told me things no one has ever dared to about my defects. I feel so bad for being such a horrible person before knowing her. I'm definitely learning new things about myself. I feel like I'm still learning to breathe. I called her my therapy. That's what's it's been for me. I'm teaching her to give compliments.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I watched this thread with interest and waited for a moment when you will start feeling LSE. It's funny how quickly it happened, you already sound like creative Si.
Lol thank you! I'm absorbing her traits pretty quickly. I'm feeling balanced, content, and optimistic about life.
Downside is, people I thought were compatible I'm starting to compare with her and see flaws. But still, she has helped me improve my interactions with more people overall, even though I have always been the life of the party, but now I'm better at 101 interactions. I also feel that I understand others better now
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-10-2023 at 09:49 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Realized I've stopped meditating. My need for Se/Si is being constantly fed. I guess this was a natural shift. We were discussing about balance, and I said I once hated balance but now I'm fascinated by her level of equilibrium and mental homeostasis. Also, even after talking to her for 4 hours straight in the morning, I still miss her at night. One day without her feels like a whole week. It's interesting. But it's not been emotionally intense, it doesn't have extreme ups and downs, it's feels more like surfing in Malibu, exciting but also relaxing, safe but potentially disastrous.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
I've spent a couple hours researching identity relations, because I was mesmerized by the number of similar interests, affinities and values. But identity relations often imply a level of easy getting to know (whereas it took us about 5 months to start opening up about values) and tendency leaning towards boredom after interaction (whereas our intensity of interaction/conversations has followed a golden ratio progression almost perfectly), and the exchange of information is not the most efficient, I have to explain things in detail and with patience. Also our lifestyles are completely different. Despite same interests, our levels and degrees of focus on each one vary drastically. For example, she spends exactly 1h20m at the gym every day, whereas I only go twice a week and spend 2h each time. My sleep schedule has been a mess, sometimes I go to sleep at 3 in the morning, and she called me reckless and imprudent, and that is harmful to my health, she goes to sleep before midnight everyday. She doesn't like change and is afraid of it. I hate routine generally speaking and I hate consistency. She is pro equilibrium, whereas I'm pro contrast and movement. Also, complementary memories of events is interesting as well. Also, exact same political positioning.
I considered that maybe we could be identicals with different subtypes, different talents, different enneagrams, instincts, and maybe complementary levels of intelligence, considering Gardner's point of view. I'm really intrigued
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 11-15-2023 at 03:32 PM.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
It's normal, duals have similar accepting functions. You see the world through Ne / Si glasses and SLI does through Si / Ne, that's it
The fun will start when you'd try to do something together with your producing functions - you'll have endless conversations by Fi and Te.
And by the way, watch your negativism, there is no such thing in classical socionics, but it seems to me that the signs of the functions of duals change. That is, you may begin to see more positive opportunities, but also notice more flaws in people.
In fact, our longest conversations tend to revolve around feelings, values and logic. Ne and Si are conversation starters, and how we exchange our most valued information through books, movies, songs, etc.
This is already happening. I'm seeing flaws in others like never before. I'm also losing a little sense of what it is like to adapt to others. I noticed I'm starting to act way too spontaneous around others, and sometimes it is causing awkwardness, then I remember not everyone (practically no one) is a dual.
Thanks for your input!
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
My focus from now on will be on useful information only. I feel like describing too personal aspects of my experience that might not make sense to others.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
It seems the best compliments tend to revolve around someone's creative function. Because complimenting someone on their dominant function is generally insipid, complimenting on non valued functions seems like flattery, complimenting on the valued unconscious functions tend to be regarded as ignorance. But complimenting on the creative function is both genuine and something the person has worked on to some degree. If you're unsure of someone's creative function, just compliment them on things they're good but had to work for.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
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