Originally Posted by xerx
And while we're here, this is Grozny:
Yes! — it is very much within the realm of possibility (and in Israel's case, the realm of existential necessity) to incorporate a restive Muslim subpopulation into a stable, flawed but somewhat satisfactory union.
I would hasten to add another critical consideration that most people tend to miss. Why did so many superior powers not just steamroll the other comparatively minor powers in their neighborhoods? Simple, they convinced the other superior power that subjugating/conquering them would be "more trouble that it's worth".
Yeah, you can beat up the pipsqueak in your class for some easy clout, but he's only a single weight class below you and he's made it obvious he's a fan of Bruce Lee and his hero endorsed the philosophy that "anything is fair" in an actual fight that matters. Yeah, you'd still beat him, but he'll likely take a chunk of your ear off as a reward for your trouble because you can almost always bite the dude trying to hit you.
This is why Israel's "Samson Option" is a thing. Yeah, if every other Arab nation decided to wipe Israel off the map they could easily do so. Problem is the instant they look like they'll do so they will push the candy red button and glass everything within however many kilometers all their nukes (which they totally don't have BTW *wink wink nudge nudge* do ya really wanna find out) will glass. Not. Worth. The. Trouble. Better to "negotiate" with them instead.
BTW this is probably why this whole thing kicked off in the first place. All the Suuni Arab Nations were about to normalize relations with Israel which would leave the Persian Shia Iranians in a solo war against the entirety of the rest of the Middle East (this includes the Israeli Jews BTW). Iran knew this, and Iran would rather much like for that to never happen. Kinda funny timing this whole Gaza uprising on the eve of such a deal being struck now eh?
Like you and I agree on, this is historical norms returning to the fore. Of course Iran would exploit this opportunity to kneecap a potential death blow to its ambitions of expanding its sphere of influence and client networks. Were the positions reversed and the Israelis were in the shoes of the Ayatollahs they'd have done the exact same thing. Morals had and will never have a damn thing to do with it. If a few thousand dead civilians who are not among who you consider to be "you and yours" is the cost of achieving your geopolitical goals than that's effectively a bonus. Less potential future soldiers to fight against your own after all. (I vomit in my throat as I say those words but say them I still do as my own morality means jack shit in the face of cold hard facts).
And while we're here, this is Grozny:
Yes! — it is very much within the realm of possibility (and in Israel's case, the realm of existential necessity) to incorporate a restive Muslim subpopulation into a stable, flawed but somewhat satisfactory union.I think it might get worse for a short amount of time, but I mostly see it getting better. Do you want to know how I see the root of this conflict? As biological. "So then it's eternal!" No. I see it as Nero fiddling while Rome burns but since this is the 21st century instead of the 1st he's much less sophisticated and he's twerking while Rome burns instead. I literally see this as being the result of environmental variables such as lead. That's right, I'm blaming geopolitical strife on lead, and of course also human nature to some degree, but it wouldn't be possible without the help of lead. People do do that regarding long-gone civilizations like Rome but I think they err when they think we're past that and it could never happen to our civilizations. We probably have more contaminants than just lead, to be fair, but I've went through and listed them, it seems to mostly be various heavy metals after lead as well as PFAS and other compounds related to Teflon, but still mostly unironically lead.
The main sources appear to be mass-manufactured ceramics and certain agricultural products that are produced in contaminated areas such as chocolate and salt as well as artificial colors etc. Interestingly, all the lead and other contaminants seems to correlate to unethical business practices, so just watch your karma and you'll be good to go, seriously. The contaminants are in my opinion basically the natural punishment of all this wild consumerist exploitation of other people and the environment, which ironically makes them very easy to avoid if you're paying actual attention. Ironically we might need a little more communism to fix this problem, not as in actually following what Marx said (there was communism before Marx and after Marx that isn't his philosophy anyway, never mind I unironically think Marxism-Leninism is not an accurate implementation of Marxism despite the fact I also disagree with Marxism taken as a whole) but just isn't communism often assumed to be the opposite of consumerism? Consume less, therefore, more communism. The real communism is laughing at both the US and the USSR.
Why would chronic poisoning lead to rampant ethnonationalism? Simply, my observation that "eros and thanatos" of Freud make perfect sense as the direct result of genetic self-identification. You have sex to spread your genes and you kill to get rid of competition to your genes. People usually identify with their ethnic group with the exceptions of the few mutants like me who read as obviously genetically dissimilar to the overall group regardless of skin color and other information. Basically I see that people just panic and stop caring about the contents of their minds and just start being enslaved to their gametes when they're subjected to too many neurotoxins. In that case they no longer care about their personal experience no matter how hellish it is, even to seemingly literal extents of being OK with the idea of actual Hell, they just identify with some biological traits and that's all. Woke identity politics as well as the tendency for left-wing ethnonationalism (Rojava, Catalonia, etc.) seem closely related to this conception of neurotoxicity to me. Basically people seem to identify more with the group and less with their actual selves as they become more literally braindead due to neurotoxins.
And with all the people who run around calling everything "Little Dark Age" and wondering if we're going back to the Dark Ages, the Dark Ages were probably legitimately 1000 years of lead poisoning seeing as how Rome ended and the fact seemingly no one would've known what the cause was. Roman lead poisoning was probably also related to their use of slave labor as well.
Why would Israel have given Gaza to the Palestinians if their motive was they wanted the land...? They literally gave away that land like a decade ago. You clearly don't even know the first thing about Palestine or the history of this situation.
It is pretty obvious that Israels motive is to dethrone Hamas.
There's a pretense here that you're defending the Palestinian cause. But the Palestinians have been murdered and oppressed by Hamas for years, they suspended the elections - their entire government has been hijacked by Hamas... you dismiss this as if it's of no consequence, just a distraction. So what's your real motive here, exactly...? It doesn't seem to be concern over Palestinians. You don't seem bothered that Hamas prevents civilians from evacuating war zones and constructs tunnels beneath major hospitals. Just a distraction.
For you this must really be all about fitting this story into a broader oppressor / oppressed narrative. I don't see what else this could be.
Hamas's opposition to Israel is religious, not political - this war is about Islam and its hatred for Jews, go read the first few pages of the Quran and you will see that plainly... go read Hamas's own declarations. Hamas is just a group of Arabs that actually take the Quran seriously. They're not fighting for the Palestinian cause, why would they attack the strongest nation in the region and bring down the wrath of that nation onto themselves if they were promoting the interests of Palestine? Why would they not agree to any of the numerous perfectly tolerable peace offers if they were concerned about Palestine...? Hamas is basically a murderous cult of deluded narcissists intent on destroying Israel and establishing their religious caliphate, just exactly as the Quran tells them to do.
If Israel does not take out Hamas now they will only grow in size, will acquire bigger weapons, continue to oppress their people in the mean time, and there will only end up being a much larger and more deadly war in the future. The simple fact is Hamas openly states they intend to destroy Israel, Israel cannot just allow this to continue while Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. I don't know what other response from Israel you would expect. I'm sorry that the deluded religion of Islam decided to declare war on the Jews and some people are still fighting this war over a thousand years later.
You really don't have much argument.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-07-2023 at 05:57 AM.
Sounds kinda funny coming from someone who seems to know even less and is high on MSM propaganda.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
a) Your video should have mentioned it was the Arab states that declared war on Israel, this was done in the name of Jihad, and after winning the war Israel claimed the land / expelled the native population to ensure its own safety. The fact your historian here didn't mention that, and himself lived as a Palestinian and participated in anti-Israel protests, diminishes his credibility... What Israel wants is safety, not territory. Again, if you proclaim Jihad and attack a nation, but then you get owned, I don't care.
b) you've said nothing,
c) I'm not getting this information from the white house press core I'm literally getting it from the son of the founder of Hamas, and from Hamas's own public statements,
d) what are you pro-Hamas? Hamas is not fighting for the Palestinians, Hamas is a religious terror group, this is not "propaganda" it is a fact, again if you really gave a crap about the Palestinians you would not excuse Hamas's actions / side with them cuz they oppose the colonials or some stupid shit. Get educated and spit out the koolaid.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-07-2023 at 11:43 PM.
With the help of the USA and all these years they couldn't dethrone Hamas? Stop imagining and think realistically.
Oussama Ben Ladin was killed by the USA and they didn't have to kill more than 10000 civilians to do that.
Well first of all, you don't know anything about Quran, I can know that easily from your statement. So anyone who takes Quran seriously kills the Jews? You are crazy. Also, there isn't just Hamas (that's if it actually exists because we have never seen a representative of it), there are other organizations which purpose is a FREE PALESTINE. USA probably fed up your minds with lies about Hamas so that you hate them and excuse them for the genocide of Palestinian people.
And you really lack knowledge. Palestine actually accepted the offer of peace, but Israel over the years, started to steal Palestinian houses and bombing them leaving them homeless + they didn't give them the rights as Israelians, it was clear they wanted them out of Palestine so they take the whole land. And the final plan started from 7th October 2023. Palestinians literally have been suffereing for many years but this month is a monstreous.
It's not even about religion. It's just politics, colonisation, genocide. Israel are freaking bombing Churches too.
I know your kind of people, you just want to blame everything on religion and that's it because you have some complex towards it. You should try to think rationally and read more about what's happening. Because hundreds of innocent palestinian people are dying because of hypocricy, politics and people similar to you.
Hamas is using Mao's classic terrorism playbook - attack your enemy and then hide behind your own civilians to make the enemy look bad when they inadvertently hurt your civilians by retaliating.
Amazing interview and from a highly credible person to the situation. To bad we live in a #posttruth era He sums up exactly what I already thought about the situation.
Btw this man seems like a SLI trapped in a Se world.
That neglects to mention the Uyghur genocide, Israel's integration of Arab Israelis into Israeli society, the lack of autonomy in China and Russia, as well as the fact that Palestinian terrorists have been firing at civilian targets for decades and have overthrown democracy in Palestine.And while we're here, this is Grozny:
Yes! — it is very much within the realm of possibility (and in Israel's case, the realm of existential necessity) to incorporate a restive Muslim subpopulation into a stable, flawed but somewhat satisfactory union.
The fact of the matter is, what Hamas has done cannot even remotely approach the scale of the massacres Israel has repeatedly inflicted on Gaza, leaving aside the long term incarceration of the Gazans in a concentration camp (now a death camp).
A logical question to ask then is, if the atrocities Hamas committed on Oct. 7 call for its destruction, why doesn't the Israeli state have to be destroyed, after committing massacres on a exponentially greater scale against the people of Gaza?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Re. the Uyghur genocide:
I'd take a cultural genocide over a real one (and so would most people, who'd learn to keep their heads down and to perform the basic rituals of Chinese citizenship). And even some of what China is accused of, especially the dystopian ultra-surveillance (using image recognition technology, internet surveillance, and so on) that is used to track and racially classify Uyghur individuals, is par for the course in Israel vis a vis the Palestinians (1) (whereby Gaza is one of the world's most heavily surveilled places). Israel itself is a world leader in spyware technology (that it has used to spy on its own citizens (2)) and an exporter thereof to dictatorial regimes (3).
Re. the fact that the Palestinians have attacked Israel:
Chechens and Uyghurs have also committed terrorist acts against Russia and China. Yet, they were eventually integrated into their host countries, and they've been allowed stable societies that have prospered economically. Unlike what Israel does to Gaza, Russia and China don't keep Chechnya and Xinjiang under a permanent blockade (4) that chokes off their industries and causes economic paralysis (incidentally, Israel's rather thorough blockade of Gaza, which has existed since 2007, and is likelier than Hamas to be the primary cause of Gaza's destitution, would be an act of war if applied to a sovereign country, and this besieged country would have the 'right to defend itself' under international law).
But that's neither here nor there. I'm not here to rattle off the litany of Israel's crimes; moralizing won't change anything, and it ought not to shock anyone that a country — any country — would engage in (short-sighted) aggression. I only want to point out that there is nothing about Muslims that makes them especially stubborn.
But most importantly, I want people to realize that Israel quite possibly won't survive if it continues down this dark path. It's not an easy bet that Israel could fight a three front war (against Hamas, Hezbollah and a West bank intifada, with a possible fourth front against a weak but not trivial (5) Syrian army). If the October 7th event has proven anything, it's that Israel's enemies are a demonstrably intelligent and resourceful bunch, not a pack of dimwitted animals.
Last edited by xerx; 11-08-2023 at 05:01 AM. Reason: clarification
Professor Norman Finkelstein should be invited on TV to discuss this war. In fact, he should've been one of the first people called up by news and talk shows.
His personal opinions (which aren't exactly anodyne) aren't always easy to hear. But this is his topic, and he is legitimately one of the world's foremost experts on Israel/Palestine (especially Gaza) and is capable of presenting his case with a great deal of academic rigor. His opinions on this conflict carry some weight and ought to at least be heard.
Last edited by xerx; 11-08-2023 at 05:18 AM.
A) not real, which is the point of the meme.
B) the Israelis operate the largest concentration camp to have ever existed: for Arabs, descended from people who were expulsed from what is now Israel.
C) the fuck is "autonomy." Last I checked Chinese and Russians weren't forbidden to emigrate and weren't being bombed and had a relatively decent quality of life. Palestinians are being bombed in, again, a concentration camp.
D) the rockets don't do anything; they're a symbolic protest from people who have lived their entire lives in a concentration camp. Why don't you call the Israelis, who also target civilians, but kill thousands of them, terrorists?
E) The only "democracy" that ever existed in Palestine was the justification Israel used to attack it. As soon as Hamas won the 2006 elections, Israel placed Gaza under a state of siege -- just because it didn't control Hamas and feared Palestinian self-governance.
Anyone can simply read Hamas's founding charter and see what they're about -
THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS (fas.org)
Some quotes:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.
The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day.
No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.
The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.
In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.
Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!
[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...
Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam...
There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.
Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.
So they plainly state that Israel must be completely destroyed and all territory reclaimed, that no peace agreement is acceptable, and that this is a holy war, and fundamentally a matter of expelling infidels from the holy land. But didn't you call those claims MSM propaganda earlier...? Well then I guess you have no credibility, do you?
So Hamas is elected in Gaza, they openly declare war on Israel, Israel responds to the declaration of war by cutting off resources to the area, and you say that Israel has created a death camp. The most basic principles of self defense / cause and effect completely elude you, it seems.
If Hamas wanted to improve conditions for Palestinians all they'd need to is drop the war proclamation and work out a peace agreement.
Notice that Hamas states openly it rejects all peace agreements a-priori. Again this is in direct contradiction to what people argued in this thread earlier, that Hamas tried for peace and Israel is responsible for the failure of the peace agreements.
Your Palestinian historians recounting of history is missing any mention of Jihad... why is that? Seems he ought to have mentioned it seeing as that is really the entire problem from Israels standpoint. It was the same problem back in 1948 when multiple Arab states declared Jihad on Israel.
I'm sorry your people keep proclaiming wars they can't win and keep getting destroyed - maybe they should stop doing that.
Carry onward
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-08-2023 at 07:54 AM.
And instead, we get to see retarded, warmongering psychopaths like this asshole being given the megaphone...
Here's another commentary of Finkelstein I liked where he outs Barack Obama in the context of this conflict.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Netanyahu and various Israeli communities and organizations have made equally atrocious and genocidal claims... And they are not even the real victims. In any case, being a pretend-victim with delusions of grandeur and using such rhetoric doesn't excuse your actions...
No, they've already done that... and more. Read: It was already a concentration camp, it is now a death camp.
That's just counterfactual. Read or listen to Finkelstein's presentation of relevant events, or study history and political science from someone other than IDF/Netanyahu or Hamas...
Norman Finkelstein is not just any historian, he's probably the most knowledgeable person alive on this matter. And he is not someone who would make any deliberate omissions to fit his personal view or narrative. As a matter of fact, you can often catch him do the opposite.
He's also a Jew and a child of Holocaust survivors.
Last edited by Park; 11-08-2023 at 11:03 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
The Chinese have killed thousands of Uyghurs, and it could easily be a million or more based on census data, but it may take a long time to get a scale of the genocide because of inability to measure the situation directly and the Chinese government curtailing Uyghur fertility.
Some of my posts from October 2022:
Palestinian militants have been firing at Israeli civilian targets (as well as Palestinian civilian targets) for decades, no one should be surprised that Gaza is under a blockade after such a declaration of war.
Israel has defeated numerous Arab armies that have started war against it since 1948. Hamas and Hezbollah are backed by Iran and North Korea so they certainly have some degree of resources, but their desire to attack civilians to provoke a war they know they can't win and continuing to refuse to negotiate a peace deal with Israel doesn't strike me as intelligent, at least from the perspective of what is best for Palestine civilians.
You have a history of voicing antisemitic conspiracies and being a stooge for totalitarian regimes.
Saudi Arabia oppose the blockade of Gaza even after Hamas declared war on civilians, yet they blockade Yemen which has a population more than 14 times greater.
China and Russia don't permit their citizens to vote in free elections, same with Hamas.
If the rockets are symbolic, why don't they use fireworks, which are cheaper, rather than stuff bought in from Iran and North Korea? Maybe Hamas are symbolic raping, kidnapping, and killing people too I guess by your reasoning.
Israel has not ordered its soldiers to target civilian non-militants, unlike Hamas.
Israel left Gaza in 2005 after the last time they decide to root out the militants firing missiles at civilian targets in Palestine and Israel, even abandoning their illegal settlements and removing Israeli graves. Yet supposedly it is claimed that Israel occupied Gaza in the intervening years. Since 2005, the Palestinian militants carried on firing missiles at civilian targets, which is a legitimate Casus belli for Israel to wage war against them. You're saying that Israel created a false justification in 2006 to invade Gaza...that they just left a year earlier, and then waited 17 years to use it...after Hamas just happened to fire 5000+ missiles in one day at Israeli civilian targets according to you own boast. I can't tell if you're a fool or dishonest.
'I’m calling from Israeli intelligence. We have the order to bomb. You have two hours'
The call to Mahmoud Shaheen came at dawn.
It was Thursday 19 October at about 06:30, and Israel had been bombing Gaza for 12 days straight.
He'd been in his third-floor, three-bedroom flat in al-Zahra, a middle-class area in the north of the Gaza Strip. Until now, it had been largely untouched by air strikes.
He'd heard a rising clamour outside. People were screaming. "You need to escape," somebody in the street shouted, "because they will bomb the towers".
As he left his building and crossed the road, looking for a safe place, his phone lit up.
It was a call from a private number.
"I'm speaking with you from Israeli intelligence," a man said down the line, according to Mahmoud.
That call would last more than an hour - and it would be the most terrifying call of his life.
The voice addressed Mahmoud by his full name and spoke in flawless Arabic.
"He told me he wanted to bomb three towers… and ordered me to evacuate the surrounding area."
Mahmoud's tower was not directly under threat - but he was suddenly responsible for evacuating hundreds of people. "I had the lives of people in my hands," he says.
He gathered his thoughts and told the man, who identified himself as Abu Khaled, not to hang up the phone.
As a 40-year-old dentist, Mahmoud says he has no idea why he was chosen for this task. But that day, he did everything he could to keep his community safe.
Directed by the voices of strangers, who always seemed to know how to reach him even when his battery ran out, he pleaded for the bombing to stop and screamed until his throat hurt for people to run away.
He led a mass evacuation of his neighbours - and then watched his neighbourhood explode in front of his eyes.
No I don't.
You are literally defending the largest concentration camp in human history.and being a stooge for totalitarian regimes.
Yes, they're awful.Saudi Arabia oppose the blockade of Gaza even after Hamas declared war on civilians, yet they blockade Yemen which has a population more than 14 times greater.
Hamas doesn't have elections. China and Russia have elections in the same way the US and UK do. Don't know what you mean by "free."China and Russia don't permit their citizens to vote in free elections, same with Hamas.
Because fireworks don't cost the Israelis a lot of money to shoot down.If the rockets are symbolic, why don't they use fireworks, which are cheaper, rather than stuff bought in from Iran and North Korea? Maybe Hamas are symbolic raping, kidnapping, and killing people too I guess by your reasoning.
The US and other countries had slave revolts that raped and killed whites who didn't personally own slaves. And it was clear that slavery was a moral injustice and slaves should have been freed. But not even the slavers kept asking the abolitionists "Do you condemn Nat Turner" and there's a good reason we don't talk about how "both sides" of the slavery question were wrong. There is a clear moral outrage taking place against the Palestinians. This "both sides" BS is an utterly pathetic and cowardly.
What do you call bombing a concentration camp? Even if Israel had the best of intentions, it's completely impossible to not hit more civilians than militants. Gaza is tiny and has 2 million people in it.Israel has not ordered its soldiers to target civilian non-militants, unlike Hamas.
And even before this: Israelis would kill unarmed Palestinians, often children, or just steal Palestinian homes. But the people locked in a prison, who've already tried nonviolent resistance only to be met with more massacre, they attack once the settlers on their stolen land and they're treated the same as the people locking them up and killing them.
They "left" Gaza controlled by the Palestinian Authority which was controlled by the Israelis. Israel made the "mistake," as Hilary Clinton put it, of not rigging the 2006 election which they thought wouldn't be opposed. They were wrong, and freaked out at losing control of the government.Israel left Gaza in 2005 after the last time they decide to root out the militants firing missiles at civilian targets in Palestine and Israel, even abandoning their illegal settlements and removing Israeli graves. Yet supposedly it is claimed that Israel occupied Gaza in the intervening years. Since 2005, the Palestinian militants carried on firing missiles at civilian targets, which is a legitimate Casus belli for Israel to wage war against them. You're saying that Israel created a false justification in 2006 to invade Gaza...that they just left a year earlier, and then waited 17 years to use it...after Hamas just happened to fire 5000+ missiles in one day at Israeli civilian targets according to you own boast. I can't tell if you're a fool or dishonest.
Ya'll's bickering over this hyper-complex issue sounds a lot like the Morality Olympics
Even if it wasn't complex at all, it'd still be pointless. It's clear that most members here are deeply entrenched in ideological bias towards either the West or the East, and will continue defending and rooting for their respective side until the absolute bitter end. All that can be done is to agree to disagree.
Ex Muslim atheists discuss this. It is weird because they were taught since they were children that Israel is evil and Israel is the devil.
They show some interesting videos too.
Last edited by chriscorey; 11-10-2023 at 12:41 AM.
There is no end to this shameless hypocrisy and gaslighting.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Hamas Fighters’ Orders: ‘Kill as Many People as Possible’
'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth centerDocuments found on dead militants in Israel indicate massacres were a central objective
TEL AVIV—Written orders carried by Hamas fighters sent to attack Israeli towns and settlements last weekend contained the same chilling command: Kill as many people as possible.
Kill, behead, rape: Interrogated Hamas members detail atrocities against civiliansMaps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.
Documents exclusively obtained by NBC News show that Hamas created detailed plans to target elementary schools and a youth center in the Israeli kibbutz of Kfar Sa'ad, to "kill as many people as possible," seize hostages and quickly move them into the Gaza Strip.
The attack plans, which are labeled "top secret" in Arabic, appear to be orders for two highly trained Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather. Israeli authorities are still determining the death toll in Kfar Sa'ad.
The documents were found on the bodies of Hamas terrorists by Israeli first responders and shared with NBC News. They include detailed maps and show that Hamas intended to kill or take hostage civilians and school children.
In coded doc, Hamas instructed terrorists to kill civilians, take captives – reportClips released by Israeli security bodies show terrorists who took part in October 7 onslaught describing orders to dismember victims, murder women and children
Israeli security agencies published video footage Monday from the apparent interrogations of seven Hamas terrorists who were captured following the Palestinian terror group’s October 7 onslaught, in which they admitted they had been ordered to carry out atrocities against Israeli civilians.
In one video released by the Israel Defense Forces, a person whose face is blurred said that gunmen were given instructions to kill everyone they saw, including beheading victims and cutting off their legs.
“The plan was to go from home to home, from room to room, to throw grenades and kill everyone, including women and children,” he said. “Hamas ordered us to crush their heads and cut them off, [and] to cut their legs.”
He also said they were given permission to rape the corpse of a girl.
Most members of the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany were not told to kill civilians, so Hamas are worst than the Nazis in terms of ambition. It should be straightforward to condemn them.Document found in vehicle used by Gaza-ruling terror group in devastating attack said to include code words for massacring people or using those taken captive as human shields
A coded document found in a vehicle used by Hamas terrorists in their shock assault on Israel showed they were instructed to massacre civilians and take captives, according to a television report Saturday.
The Kan public broadcaster reported that the document was recovered at Kibbutz Re’im, outside of which at least 260 people were killed and an unknown number taken hostage at a music festival when the Palestinian terror organization launched a devastating attack on Israel from the Gaza Strip.
War erupted after Hamas’s October 7 massacre, which saw at least 1,500 terrorists burst across the border into Israel from the Gaza Strip by land, air and sea, killing over 1,300 people and seizing 150-200 hostages of all ages under the cover of a deluge of thousands of rockets fired at Israeli towns and cities. The vast majority of those killed as gunmen seized border communities were civilians — men, women, children and the elderly. Entire families were executed in their homes, and over 260 were slaughtered at an outdoor festival, many amid horrific acts of brutality by the terrorists, in what US President Joe Biden has highlighted as “the worst massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust.”
This woman is an example of how close-minded Pro-Israel are. And as mentioned in the video, Jews were leading the protests againt Israel Genocide in Gaza.
Israel literally using a palestinian man as a human shield.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzdyK...RlODBiNWFlZA==
The second nakba is happening and some people are still claiming that Israel is not doing this to get all gaza land.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzeCX...RlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzeHP...RlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzeRD...RlODBiNWFlZA==
I'm tired of Hamas's media gaslighting, the extremists, and the propaganda from both sides. I watch debates, documentaries, and I look for what the people in Israel and Palestine are saying.
This is really sad.
I never disputed that China (and Russia) has a less-than-stellar humanitarian record. What I said was that Israel's actions are worse, because China and Russia have at least placated their separatist Muslim regions (populations that have also committed acts of terror) in the most obvious way possible: by allowing economic development to take place. Economic development isn't the only reason for these regions' newly-found political stability, but it is an important one.
Israel, on the other hand, has blockaded Gaza for years and is in the process of ethnically cleansing the West Bank.
Israel apologists love pointing out that Arab-Israelis are well-adjusted Israeli citizens who prefer being Israeli. And yet, in the same breath they'll talk about how Arabs cannot be reasoned with. Couldn't it be that the difference between Israeli and non-Israeli Palestinians resides in their economic outlook?
That's not true.Palestinian militants have been firing at Israeli civilian targets (as well as Palestinian civilian targets) for decades, no one should be surprised that Gaza is under a blockade after such a declaration of war.
Israel has defeated numerous Arab armies that have started war against it since 1948. Hamas and Hezbollah are backed by Iran and North Korea so they certainly have some degree of resources, but their desire to attack civilians to provoke a war they know they can't win and continuing to refuse to negotiate a peace deal with Israel doesn't strike me as intelligent, at least from the perspective of what is best for Palestine civilians.
* The 1948 war broke out amid ethnic tensions between Israelis and Palestinians. ~750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed before the other Arab states declared war on Israel.
* The Suez war (1954) was started by Israel (alongside Britain and France), when it attacked Egypt.
* The Six-Day war (1967) was started by Israel, when it attacked Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
I could go on, but I won't bother. The Arabs certainly haven't acted like saints, but Israel isn't some innocent victim here.
Last edited by xerx; 11-11-2023 at 05:41 AM. Reason: .
China could easily have killed millions of Uyghurs, no one can determine the matter for sure.
The Palestinians were offered a deal in 1947, but they refused and then waged war. I think this deal would have lead to an Israel that had around 47% of its population as Arab Israeli citizens at that time, along with a Palestinian state. I don't see where you can be getting your "750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed" figure from prior to the 1948 war.
Israeli's involvement in the Suez war was along with the UK and France, its interest being that Egypt had blockaded Israel from using an international waterway, a legitimate casus belli.
1967 I could perhaps call a draw in terms of who started it. Israel carried out a pre-emptive strike after the Soviet Union falsely told Egypt that Israel was planning to attack, leading to Egypt putting troops on its border with Israel in the middle of nowhere, causing Israel to think it was about to be attacked.
I wish I saw the same level of opposition from you people when the current administration funded the war in Syria which led to 300,000 dead and a million wounded / many millions displaced. At least in this case there's an actual well-defined goal Israel is trying to achieve... namely to defend its own borders, oust a violent terrorist group from power (that has been horribly oppressing its own people for a decade), possibly prevent a larger war (even a nuclear catastrophe) down the road. But in Syria it still makes no sense why we funded that war. But I saw very few of you people opposing that...
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-12-2023 at 10:59 PM.
Hallelujah!
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
If not USA with suborderies provoking, organising and supporting wars to make destructions to competitors - there would be no wars at now.
Palestinian military organisation and Israel - are both hands growing on USA body, which do anything for wars to be in Mahometanian regions. To enforce there destructive religious ideas, to break peaceful economy and then lead this hunger militarised crowd further, to bring destructions and technical retarderness to more places of USA's competitors.
Then weakened, separated from technologies and resources humanity is planed to get higher dictatorship from a minority of capitalists and to be genocided for that minority material interests.
This is planed to be done with people by their own hands, by hands of fooled ones, including fooled by religous ideas.
Use English translation
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Glenn, telling it like it is in the most rational and honest way, as always.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
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