Originally Posted by Pseudomorph
I always thought like Reagan, that this would put an End to all that hate nonsense :
I was manifestly wrong ! Disclosure about UFOs (Not "Aliens" but still...) officially happened and nobody gives a poo...
However, I've always had a plan B..
Brutal reality hits when one studies secular history. Every nation that persecuted the Jew met with disaster; and after it met with disaster, the Jew was still standing there.
If Israel didn't do this, how will it cover up its continuous killing of Palestinians, its demolition of their homes, and its imprisonment of children, and so on? except for denying their actions , of course ?
idk about the tweet's interpretation of things but the interview is... interesting
Why do you want to talk about the Israel-Palestine Conflict on the16types.info, anyway? This is a cult, it's not exactly a venue for level-headed discussion, and everyone and their dog in real life and other online forums wants to talk about the Israel-Palestine Conflict.
you terrorist supporters can take your "day of rage" and shove it up your ass.
I don't believe that Israel has a systematic policy of wiping out Arabs, unlike Hamas with the support of Iraq does with Israeli civilians.
Now the Israelis are giving Palestinians an advanced warning to move to the south before they attack Gaza: it's bad that they know that a day isn't enough to move everybody, but it's even worse that Hamas are telling Palestinian civilians to stay where they are. Hamas care less about Palestinian civilians than the Israeli government does. Nevermind Israeli civilians, that they have systematically targeted.
I hate Muslim and Jewish scripture even more than you hate Socionics, and I hate terrorism also. I don't hate Jews, Muslims, or Socionists. Maybe I don't even hate Moses and Muhammad, if they existed, but I do think they were terrorists if they did and I think many religious people are motivated by such people that they have little concern for individuals not of their religion.
Critics of Israel hold it to the standard of the UN, which is fair enough, but it seems with Hamas, a significant number hold them to standards of Muhammad, which is a much lower bar.
You claim you're here to help deprogram people from Socionics: how are you going to do that, if there are people who find it difficult to condemn all attacks on civilians, perhaps because of dogma originating from their religion or their politics?
Last edited by Enters Laughing; 10-13-2023 at 04:38 PM.
It seems that you hate the extremism put into religion or any ideology. You seem not to care about religion, agnostic at most, but still an atheist. You seem to see that extremism does often happen in religious communities, just like how extremism tends to exist in political parties or mob groups.
You hate dogma.
But again that doesn't stop you from criticizing anything, just as anything can critique you back.
Not a hateful person, but someone who doesn't want any immorality. However in reality, people will find ways to act violent, especially in any secular group that doesn't see any human dignity on “outsiders.” But again, people act crazy and irrational during times of conflict, and completely act out in hypocrisy.
"Atheism" is a label other people use, I don't really understand the concept of "god".
I hate people believing things purely on faith, especially when they act based on it. I think those religious books have extremism in them, so I'd classify them as extremist books followed by many who are not extremist. I think most followers of Judaism (and Islam) see Moses as a good character to follow, despite his genocide of the Canaanites, and that most followers of Islam see Muhammad as a good character to follow, despite him being reported as being in favour of terrorism and imperialism.
I think if people are going to use their "holy" books as justification for having a god-given right to the land, then they shouldn't also use the UN's standards (the Universal Declaration of Human Rights etc.) to complain about the other side not meeting the UN's standards, when their own religion doesn't.
I also don't like it when outsiders (people not from those religions) use the UN's standard to hold one side to account, but never or rarely the other.
At the moment, human rights abuses are being done by both sides, but I still very much think that Hamas causes this war attacking civilians, and continue to systematically target civilians (they're even using the Palestinian people as shields now, by telling them to ignore the excavation order that the Israelis gave prior to their move into Gaza: Israel excavated its own civilians around the Gaza border over the last few days already.
Of course, sadly, the Palestinians have limited options to move out of Gaza, especially seeing as Egypt continues to keep its border closed even from refugees. Israel's also stopped electricity, gasoline, food and presumably medicine etc. going into Gaza too: I think stopping food and medicine is especially going too far.
Israel has had a blockade with Gaza since 2007 after Hamas overthrew democracy in Palestine (Egypt also had a full or partial blockade for much of that time): many call this collective punishment of an entire people, maybe they have a point. I think realistically though, the only way of ending such a blockade when there's an enemy there who want to wipe your country off the face of the Earth is to either occupy it and prevent Hamas and other groups from importing missiles from Iran etc. (which the world will hate), or for some peace deal to be signed which Hamas don't want.
Me starting this thread does show a certain bias - I didn't start threads on other wars of a comparable scale, nor did I have threads about the recent deaths in Libya, Morocco, Afghanistan etc. from natural disasters.
I guess geopolitics is especially interesting to me, and also a clash skewed by religious differences. I was also fairly confident it'd get discussed here eventually.
This is a denial of the facts that prove otherwise , you can live in your own world of course, but it's not the actual reality
In case you don't know , Gaza has already been bombed for a days, and their electricity has been cut off as wellNow the Israelis are giving Palestinians an advanced warning to move to the south before they attack Gaza: it's bad that they know that a day isn't enough to move everybody, but it's even worse that Hamas are telling Palestinian civilians to stay where they are. Hamas care less about Palestinian civilians than the Israeli government does. Nevermind Israeli civilians, that they have systematically targeted.
Warning Palestinians to move south is not a " humanitarian " action as you think
Sisi has a similar view to Hamas
From an article :
Gazans must ‘remain on their land’: Egypt’s al-Sisi
[ On Thursday, he said that Egypt was already hosting “nine million guests, as I call them, from many countries who came to Egypt for security and safety.”
But the case of Gazans “is different”, he said, because their displacement would mean “the elimination of the (Palestinian) cause.” ]
If the Palestinians moved south, and Israel entered Gaza, all those who went south will end up losing their lands and becoming refugees in other countries, just like the 1948 Arabs who live now in camps in neighboring countries : since they left their land then and to this day they are still prevented from returning to it , zionists also took their houses with support from the Israeli government
It is impossible for Israel to do anything humanitarian for the Palestinians ، it has benefit in any action it does for Palestinians , no matter how much " humanitarian " their actions appear on the surface
Yes, I think all of that plays into why the individuals participate in such things. "Hurt people hurt people" as they say.
The amount of generational pain and trauma in so many places is overwhelming. And, yet, somehow beauty and kindness can emerge from it all, too. There's a Bible phrase, "He has put eternity into their hearts," that has stuck with me for so long. People can be horrible, evil, and do worse than the rest of nature. But then there are these sparks of hope and so many people look for good even when they're surrounded by awfulness.
By the way, I hope you're doing ok. There's a lot of sadness these days. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
There will always be war in that region. History repeats its tribal wars
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Can you provide evidence of the Israeli leadership telling the IDF to systematically kill Arabs?
The Israelis retaliated to surprise attacks by Hamas against civilians. The Israelis immediately started evacuated its own citizens on the border of the Gaza Strip, why didn't Hamas protect Palestinian civilians? Evan after several days, they did nothing - they were more concerned with attacking civilians. Why have they told Palestinian civilians to stay where they are, other than to use civilians as human shields?
Israel said that they'd stop cutting of supplies to Gaza if Hamas returned those they had kidnapped. Hamas have still not done so: they don't care about civilians.
I don't think I've noticed you condemn Hamas deliberately targeting civilians yet, just Israelis deliberately targeting civilians. You haven't condemned Iran either, who wants to help Hamas and Hezbollah wipe Israel off the face of the Earth: they're not interested in a peace deal between the Israeli and the Palestinians. The Palestinians were offered a two state deal in the past with the UN with administrative control over Jerusalem, but they refused the deals and the Arabs just kept want to fight Israel.
Egypt invaded Gaza for about 20 years, and that only ended when Israel defeated them in 1967. Jordan did the same with the West Bank. Yet Muslims always find the Israelis at fault and rarely Muslim countries and organizations.
The reason why Egypt doesn't allow Palestinians to cross its border, including for example flooding tunnels dug by Palestinians, has nothing to do with solidarity for Palestinians. They're more concerned about the risk of making the Sinai even more insecure than it already is because of Palestinian militants/terrorists, and with having to deal with impoverished refugees.
I hardly ever see Muslims raging against how some Muslim regime has overthrown another Muslim regime, or overthrown democracy in a "Muslim" country" in the present day, but I regularly see Muslims raging about stuff the Israelis did decades ago. I also never see them raging against Muslims who occupied Arabia, northern Africa, Europa, central Asia etc. through imperialistic conquests over the last 14 centuries or so. I find that hypocritical or at least inconsistent. I don't like the British Empire, so I have no problems criticizing it, but I don't see Muslims criticizing the Muslim empires when they criticize what the British did decades ago.
@Squirrel what would be your solution the Israel-Palestine conflict? What do you think of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine?
The Israeli Defence leader thinks Hamas are animals who must be destroyed, but bizarrely, as Peter Zeihan points out, the Iranians who SUPPORT Hamas also think they're animals, as they regard them as apostates (the qur'an actually says apostates are worse than animals and that they should be killed). The Iranians will do anything to get at Israel/the USA/Saudi Arabia.
Yougov polling of a sample of British voters:
(Lab=Labour, Con=Conservatives, LD=Liberal Democrats, Remain/Leave (how they voted on Brexit)):
I doubt religion and politics inherently make people condone attacks on civilians, even if certain kinds of popular religions and politics certainly do. On the other hand socionics inherently makes people stereotype others and themselves negatively and adversely impacts lives in various ways.
Hadiths say that, not the Qur'an.
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia
Surah Al-An'am - 1-165 - Quran.com
To understand better the situation needs to know history and laws.
There were Arabs. There were Judaists migrants. Those migrants have claimed own new state Israel.
There was done international agreement to asign a territory to Israel and to Palestina. Later Israel have occupied a part of Palestina.
Formally, what military forces of Palestina (most possibly by its part controlled by Israel) did was the attack against occupation army of Israel which existed on the territory of Palestina and tried to return the control above own cities.
From the side of laws what Israel does is the crime for tens of years. While Palestinians mainly try to protect own interests in borders of international laws, and sometimes repeat actions similar to army of Israel which are out of those laws (as attacks on wide civil territory).
Isreal's occupation and genocidic crime intensifies now, when also are massively ingnored after-WWII "laws of war". Laws which practically are demanded and in medias get significant negative reaction only against USA opponents, but are never applied to USA and its suborderies.
Later, especially if the situation with people in Gaza region will become too bad (as a provocation for medias), then against Israel may start military activity armies of other states. Syria and Lybanon are in the list, as were among recently military provoked by Israel. Something similar was recently in Black Sea region of Russia, when USA after its occupation in 2014 have broken peaceful agreement to 2022, began intensive attacks against Russians, started open preparations for future serious attack. To oppose to this development and worse problems, RF was forced to start military actions against USA which used betrayers from a part of Russians.
To make large wars in Africa and near probably is the intention of USA. The chaos and destruction of wars is what USA wants anywhere, as anyone are enemies for USA hithleristic ideology.
I found an informative article about 1948Can you provide evidence of the Israeli leadership telling the IDF to systematically kill Arabs?
Classified documents reveal Israeli government cover-up of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948
The article talks about the crimes of the forces that preceded the Israeli Defense Forces, Israeli government’s covering it up , the trial of only two people out of all those who participated in the crimes and their release after a short period , preventing documents from being published publicly , changing the composition of the population and transforming the Arabs from a majority to a very small minority using these massacres
As for after 1948, perhaps we will have to wait until other documents are leaked , because according to the previous source, 99% of Israel’s archives are secret and undeclared.
Hamas uses the kidnapped to prevent bombing Gaza , Israel's actions won't lead to anything but killing the kidnapped , and killing people in Gazawhy didn't Hamas protect Palestinian civilians? Evan after several days, they did nothing - they were more concerned with attacking civilians.
Israel said that they'd stop cutting of supplies to Gaza if Hamas returned those they had kidnapped. Hamas have still not done so: they don't care about civilians.
( Article in Arabic )
Palestinian sources in Gaza confirmed that there are contacts about the file of Israeli prisoners with the Hamas movement, "but they have not reached the stage of talking about negotiations".
The sources told the " Middle East "that the two sides, Hamas and Israel, have not shown willingness to enter into negotiations. "Israel is determined to enter a full-scale war, and Hamas is not ready to negotiate over the prisoners in light of the continuing Israeli offensive,"she added.
According to the sources, Hamas informed the mediators, specifically the Egyptian and Qatari mediators who communicated with the leadership of the movement regarding the prisoners, their preservation and the possibility of releasing women and the elderly, that it keeps them all, but they are liable to be killed, and that it is the Israeli bombing on Gaza that will kill them, that is, their lives depend on the bombing (by Israel).
Hamas said it was ready for negotiations later, whether a partial deal or a comprehensive one, but that Israel would have to pay the price"
" human shields " would have been a correct term if Hamas forced civilians to do so , but a lot of civilians have already moved from their housesWhy have they told Palestinian civilians to stay where they are, other than to use civilians as human shields?
And either if civilians stayed as Hamas wanted or moved as Israel wanted , they have literally no place to go to , Israel have identified four places
as " safe places for civilians " but BBC News Arabic found that Israel later bombed two of these four places (Article in Arabic )
I'm only interested in war crimes against the Palestinians , whoever cares about Israel will talk about Israel, and whoever cares about something else will talk about something elseI don't think I've noticed you condemn Hamas deliberately targeting civilians yet, just Israelis deliberately targeting civilians. You haven't condemned Iran either, who wants to help Hamas and Hezbollah wipe Israel off the face of the Earth
Except for that , I'm not interested in condemning any part in any country, have you ever seen me condemning any party in the Syrian war ? Ukrainian war ? another war ?, I don't even think of morally judging people irl and as far as I remember, I probably did it only twice in my whole life and I held back later
My interest in politics is rather about " what actually happened " and " what is happening " , that's why I may share a link about Hezbollah but I won't neither shame them , nor glorify them
Why did they host so many refugees then? especially since those refugees came from non-rich countries ?The reason why Egypt doesn't allow Palestinians to cross its border, including for example flooding tunnels dug by Palestinians, has nothing to do with solidarity for Palestinians. They're more concerned about the risk of making the Sinai even more insecure than it already is because of Palestinian militants/terrorists, and with having to deal with impoverished refugees.
Also, you have repeatedly talked about civilians and how Hamas doesn't care about their lives, but here you say that they're terrorists who will increase insecurity in Sinai ? do you really care about civilians ?
Egypt actually refuses to resettle Palestinians in Sinai, but not because they are terrorists, rather because this means repeating the 1948 scenario
That's probably because you don't live among themI hardly ever see Muslims raging against how some Muslim regime has overthrown another Muslim regime, or overthrown democracy in a "Muslim" country" in the present day, but I regularly see Muslims raging about stuff the Israelis did decades ago
Yet Muslims always find the Israelis at fault and rarely Muslim countries and organizations.
Personally I heard a lot of Muslims/Arabs blame their countries and organizations for negligence and inaction
Predictably, and almost immediately, this war has been compared to the Russo-Ukrainian war, with either Israel or Palestine taking the place of Ukraine depending on one's chosen side. It's a natural comparison and not altogether lacking in nuance, but a better analogy, IMO, is an American Indian raid on a town of American settlers (an attack that would invoke the exact same split in political opinion).
We need to look at history to see how war plays out in these scenarios where one civilization is trying to extinguish the other civilization. (WWII/the Nazi's is a perfect example)
They only resolve by total surrender, not a peaceful "cease-fire." We know what history says, when we have an enemy that is threatening the existence of a civilized world we need to move forward toward the goal of unconditional surrender, that means unconditional surrender of Hamas and any terrorist group that would come to their aid, they also must be rooted out and destroyed. We never negotiate with the bully (terrorist) via a "cease-fire." You must "out-bully" the bully, or the terrorism will continue indefinitely. Never mind the fact that a total cease-fire would come with accusations from the media (which is predictably already happening) against Israel of using "disproportionate amount of force."It doesn't mean every person in Gaza, but that's the way the media is going to twist things.
This is a full on, propaganda battle.
Hamas knows this. That's why these terrorists carried out these attacks and retreated back to Gaza. It's why when Israel was telling people in Gaza to drop to the south for their safety, Hamas tells everyone it's "propaganda" "don't go anywhere!"
Hamas wants those human shields, they want to get the images of suffering citizens, of dead innocent civilians and put them all over the global media and say "See, Israel is performing these atrocities, Israel is evil" Hamas wants to take the victim and turn them into the aggressor.
Many nations will turn against Israel.
Last edited by Michelle Obama; 10-14-2023 at 10:06 PM.
True, but coming from you, having this opinion is filled with hypocrisy. Sorry hypocrite.
the Ukrainians don't want you there. HUH, kinda like what happened in Israel, EH?
Yes, true. And no, not true. Hamas had a choice to let it go and they chose the path in which they will never be seen as the good guys, regardless.
Probably. It won't work though.Hamas knows this. That's why these terrorists carried out these attacks and retreated back to Gaza. It's why when Israel was telling people in Gaza to drop to the south for their safety, Hamas tells everyone it's "propaganda" "don't go anywhere!"
Hamas WANTS those human shields, they WANT to get the images of suffering citizens, of dead innocent civilians and put them all over the global media and say "SEE, ISRAEL is performing these atrocities, ISRAEL is EVIL" Hamas wants to take the victim and turn them into the aggressor.
They won't. And any that do will be the "wrong" nations. Ex: Russia, Saudi, Iran, ect.Many nations will turn against Israel.
Sura 8 (Basically saying that disbelieving is the worst thing, makes you worse than an animal, and that Muslims must wage war against those who disbelieve until the entire world is Muslim)
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE COMPASSIONATE, THE MERCIFUL.
1 They ask you about the spoils of war. Say, The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and settle your differences, and obey Allah and his messenger, if you are believers.
2 The believers are only those whose hearts feel fear when Allah is mentioned, and when his signs are recited to them, they increase their faith, and who trust in their Lord,
3 Who establish prayer and spend out of what we have bestowed on them.
4 Those are the ones who are indeed believers. For them are grades with their Lord, and forgiveness, and a bountiful provision.
5 Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your home with the truth, and indeed, a party of the believers were averse.
6 Disputing with you over the truth after it had been made clear, as if they were being driven to visible death.
7 And when Allah promised you one of the two bands, that it would be yours, and you longed that the one other than the armed one might be yours. And Allah willed that he would cause the truth to triumph by his words, and cut the root of the unbelievers,
8 That he might cause the truth to triumph and bring vanity to nothing, however much the guilty might oppose it,
9 When you asked for help from your Lord and he answered you, I will help you with a thousand angels, rank on rank
10 Allah established it only as good news, and that your hearts might be at rest because of it. Victory comes only by the help of Allah. Indeed, Allah is mighty, wise.
11 When he made sleep fall upon you as a reassurance from him and sent down water from the sky upon you, so that by it he might purify you, and remove the fear of Satan from you, and make your hearts strong and your feet firm by it.
12 When your Lord inspired the angels, I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then strike the necks and strike their fingertips.
13 That is because they opposed Allah and his messenger. Whoever opposes Allah and his messenger, indeed, Allah is severe in punishment.
14 So taste that, and that for unbelievers is the torment of the fire.
15 O you who believe, when you meet those who disbelieve in battle, do not turn your backs on them.
16 Whoever turns his back on them on that day, unless he is maneuvering for battle or intent on joining a company, he indeed has incurred wrath from Allah, and his dwelling place will be Gehenna, an evil destination.
17 You did not kill them, but Allah killed them. And you did not throw when you threw, but Allah threw, so that he might test the believers with a fair test from him. Indeed, Allah is the hearer, the knower.
18 As such, Allah who makes weak the plan of unbelievers.
19 If you sought a judgment, now the judgment has come to you. And if you cease, it will be better for you, but if you return, we will also return. And your army will not help you at all, however numerous it may be, and Allah is with the believers.
20 O you who believe, obey Allah and his messenger, and do not turn away from him when you hear.
21 Do not be like those who say, We hear, and they do not hear.
22 Indeed, the worst of animals in Allah’s sight are the deaf and the dumb, who have no sense.
23 If Allah had known of any good in them, he would have made them hear, but if he had made them hear, they would have turned away, averse.
24 O you who believe, obey Allah and the messenger when he calls you to what gives you life, and know that Allah comes in between a man and his own heart, and that it is he to whom you will be gathered.
25 And seek protection against a punishment that cannot fall exclusively on those of you who are wrongdoers, and know that Allah is severe in punishment.
26 And remember, when you were few and were considered weak in the land, and were in fear that men would wipe you out, how he gave you refuge, and strengthened you with his help, and made provision of good things for you, so that perhaps you might be thankful.
27 O you who believe, do not betray Allah and his messenger, and do not knowingly betray your pledges.
28 And know that your possessions and your children are a test, and that there is immense reward with Allah.
29 O you who believe, if you keep your duty to Allah, he will give you discrimination and will rid you of your evil thoughts and deeds, and will forgive you. Allah is of infinite bounty.
30 And when those who disbelieve plot against you, to wound you fatally, or to kill you or to drive you out, they scheme, but Allah schemes, and Allah is the best of schemers.
31 And when our signs are recited to them, they say, We have heard. If we wished, we could speak like this. Indeed, this is nothing but fables of the men of old.
32 And when they said, O Allah, if this is indeed the truth from you, then rain down stones on us or bring on us some painful doom.
33 But Allah would not punish them while you were with them, nor will he punish them while they seek forgiveness.
34 What do they have that Allah should not punish them, when they bar people from the sacred mosque, though they are not its proper guardians. Its proper guardians are those only who keep their duty to Allah. But most of them do not know.
35 And their prayer at the house is nothing but whistling and hand-clapping. Therefore, Taste of the doom because you disbelieve.
36 Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth so that they may bar people from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become a source of anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered to Gehenna,
37 So that Allah might separate the evil from the good, the evil he will place piece upon piece, and heap them all together, and consign them to Gehenna. Such are indeed the losers.
38 Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease, what is past will be forgiven them, but if they return, then the example of the men of old is already known.
39 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they stop, then indeed, Allah is the seer of what they do.
40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your protector, an excellent protector, an excellent supporter.
41 And know that whatever you take as spoils of war, indeed, a fifth of it is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler, if you believe in Allah and what we revealed to our slave on the day of furqan, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is able to do all things.
42 When you were on the near bank and they were on the far bank, and the caravan was below you. And if you had planned to meet one another, you surely would have failed to keep the appointment, but so that Allah might conclude a thing that must be done, so that he who died might perish as a clear proof, and he who survived might survive as a clear proof. Indeed, Allah in truth is the hearer, the knower.
43 When Allah showed them to you in your dream as few in number, and if he had shown them to you as many, you would have faltered and would have argued over the matter. But Allah saved. Indeed, he knows what is in hearts.
44 And when you met, he showed them to as few in your eyes, and lessened you in their eyes, so that Allah might conclude a thing that must be done. To Allah all things are brought back.
45 O you who believe, when you meet an army, hold firm and think a great deal of Allah, so that you may be successful.
46And obey Allah and his messenger, and do not argue with one another, so that you do not falter and your strength depart from you, but be steadfast. Indeed, Allah is with the steadfast.
47 Do not be like those who came forth from their dwellings boastfully and in order to be seen by men, and bar people from the way of Allah, while Allah is surrounding all they do.
48 And when Satan made their deeds seem good to them and said, No one of mankind can conquer you this day, for I am your protector. But when the armies came in sight of one another, he took flight, saying, Indeed, I am guiltless regarding you. Indeed, I see what you do not see. Indeed, I fear Allah. And Allah is severe in punishment.
49 When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said, Their religion has deluded them. Whoever puts his trust in Allah, indeed, Allah is mighty, wise.
50 If you could see how the angels receive those who disbelieve, striking faces and their backs and, Taste the punishment of burning.
51 This is for what your own hands have sent before, and Allah is not a tyrant to his slaves,
52 As the way of Pharaoh’s people and those before them, they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and Allah took them in their sins. Indeed, Allah is strong, severe in punishment.
53 That is because Allah never changes the favor he has bestowed on any people until they first change what is in their hearts, and because Allah is the hearer, the knower,
54 As the way of Pharaoh’s people and those before them, they denied the signs of their Lord, so we destroyed them in their sins. And we drowned the people of Pharaoh. All were evildoers.
55 Indeed, the worst of animals in Allah’s sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.
56 Those among them with whom you made a treaty, and then at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they do not fulfill their duty.
57 If you come upon them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that perhaps they may remember.
58 And if you fear treachery from any people, then throw it back to them fairly. Indeed, Allah does not love the treacherous.
59 And do not let those who disbelieve suppose that they can get the better. Indeed, they cannot escape.
60 Make ready for them all that you can of force and of warhorses, so that by them you may strike terror in the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom you do not know. Allah knows them. Whatever you spend in the way of Allah, it will be repaid to you in full, and you will not be wronged.
61 And if they incline to peace, incline to it also, and trust in Allah. Indeed, he, even he, is the hearer, the knower.
62 And if they wish to deceive you, then indeed, Allah is sufficient for you. It is he who supports you with his help and with the believers,
63 And has united their hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allah has united them. Indeed, he is mighty, wise.
64 O prophet, Allah is sufficient for you and those who follow you among the believers.
65 O prophet, exhort the believers to fight. If there are just twenty of you who are steadfast, they will overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you, they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people without intelligence.
66 Now Allah has lightened your burden, for he knows that there is weakness in you. So if there are a steadfast hundred of you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand of you, they will overcome two thousand, by the permission of Allah. Allah is with the steadfast.
67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world, and Allah desires the hereafter, and Allah is mighty, wise.
68 If it had not been for a decree of Allah which went before, an awful doom would had come upon you because of what you took.
69 Now enjoy what you have won, as lawful and good, and keep your duty to Allah. Indeed, Allah is forgiving, merciful.
70 O prophet, say to those captives who are in your hands, If Allah knows any good in your hearts, he will give you better than what has been taken from you, and will forgive you. Indeed, Allah is forgiving, merciful.
71 And if they would betray you, they betrayed Allah before, and he gave power over them. Allah is the knower, the wise.
72 Indeed, those who believed and left their homes and waged jihad with their wealth and their lives for the sake of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them, these people are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, you have no duty to protect them until they leave their homes, but if they seek help from you in the matter of religion, then it is your duty to help, except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty. Allah is the seer of what you do.
73 And those who disbelieve are protectors one of another, if you do not so, there will be confusion in the land, and great corruption.
74 Those who believed and left their homes and waged jihad for the sake of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them, these people are the believers in truth. For them is forgiveness, and bountiful provision.
75 And those who afterwards believed and left their homes and waged jihad along with you, they are among you, and those who are relatives are nearer one to another in the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah is the knower of all things.
"an enemy threatening the entire existence of a civilization"
Arabia, Egypt, Russia, Persia and Ethiopia, Rome, Asia.They won't. And any that do will be the "wrong" nations. Ex: Russia, Saudi, Iran, ect
Hamas said it was ready for negotiations later, whether a partial deal or a comprehensive one, but that Israel would have to pay the price"
Hamas militants in October 2023 have been found with combat protocols telling them to kill Israeli civilians. Hezbollah are also firing at civilian targets from Lebanon. Both Hamas and Hezballoh are supported by Iran, a country that wants to wipe Israel off the map (although it's not clear if they're behind Hamas' attacks this month).
Targeting civilians is against international law.
Egypt certainly holds refugees who have already crossed the border, as Turkey ans other countries do that border warzones. But they do all they can to stop Palestinians crossing the border. I don't think they're refusing Palestinians has to do with concern with weakening the Palestinian cause from their perspective - I think if they cared about Palestinian autonomy and Palestinian life, they'd allow Palestinians to cross into Egypt to safety.
I'm not saying that Palestinian refugees are terrorists (I think most of them are not): my point is that the Sinai is already considered a no-go area for the Egyptians, it's quite a lawless area, and they may have legitimate concerns about Hamas using the area to smuggle in missiles or generally engaged in criminal activities.
Israel claims they didn't have a single plane in the sky during the time of those bombings. I certainly could believe that Israel DID do the bombing, but at the moment, I'm more inclined to believe Hamas did it, as that would explain why they told Palestinian civilians to stay in the north of Gaza while Israel have tried multiple methods to tell Palestinian civilians to move away. Unfortunately, Hamas certainly carried on bombing Israeli civilians from Gaza including the north during this period.
Usually its the guy that hits first that gets the blame, right?
Look what happened to the Japanese, and it ended with two Nukes. Was there back up agains the wall and America had them by the balls prior to Pearl Habour? yes. Did they hit first? Yes, therefore they gave America the moral right (deterministic right).
Ethiopia is inconsequential at this point in history. Rome has less influence than they think. Asia won't side with Hamas , and Asia is like 30 countries so..Arabia, Egypt, Russia, Persia and Ethiopia, Rome, Asia.
Egypt hates Hamas regardless and doesn't hold the Palestinians in high regard either which is why they refuse refugees.
Russia is fighting a proxy war with US (although they shouldn't as US won hedgemony a generation ago) and Israel means little to them.
Nope Isreal will get a free pass no matter what awful things they do now and it will only be in retrospect, after this is all said and done, that people will ponder what was right, or wrong.
Btw dude, I think this entire thing is wrong and that one side is going to have to surrender in order for this to stop. Just like you said. But isn't that how it is in your immediate personal world as well?
Hamas militants in October 2023 have been found with combat protocols telling them to kill Israeli civilians. Hezbollah are also firing at civilian targets from Lebanon. Both Hamas and Hezballoh are supported by Iran, a country that wants to wipe Israel off the map (although it's not clear if they're behind Hamas' attacks this month).
Targeting civilians is against international law.
Egypt certainly holds refugees who have already crossed the border, as Turkey ans other countries do that border warzones. But they do all they can to stop Palestinians crossing the border. I don't think they're refusing Palestinians has to do with concern with weakening the Palestinian cause from their perspective - I think if they cared about Palestinian autonomy and Palestinian life, they'd allow Palestinians to cross into Egypt to safety.
I'm not saying that Palestinian refugees are terrorists (I think most of them are not): my point is that the Sinai is already considered a no-go area for the Egyptians, it's quite a lawless area, and they may have legitimate concerns about Hamas using the area to smuggle in missiles or generally engaged in criminal activities.
Israel claims they didn't have a single plane in the sky during the time of those bombings. I certainly could believe that Israel DID do the bombing, but at the moment, I'm more inclined to believe Hamas did it, as that would explain why they told Palestinian civilians to stay in the north of Gaza while Israel have tried multiple methods to tell Palestinian civilians to move away. Unfortunately, Hamas certainly carried on bombing Israeli civilians from Gaza including the north during this period.
I think religion and politics do. I can see it even in myself, and I'd like to think I'm opposed to all attacks on civilians. My perspective on this is likely heavily skewed by my upbringing and background.
There's a joke in Ireland when someone says they're an atheist, they get asked "Are you a Protestant or a Catholic atheist?".
This conflict has had war crimes committed by both sides already, I recognize that: but to me, it's very clear to me that one side (Hamas) started the war with the deliberate intent to commit war crimes on a systemic scale.
Palestine is an UN observer state rather than a country in its own right, so I have no idea if that somehow makes Hamas exempt from war crimes. I don't think Hamas are recognized as a terrorist organization by the UN either. I think this is largely down to politics though: I think Palestine should be regarded as a sovereign state, and Hamas should be recognized as a terrorist organization.
If you condone attacks on civilians then you waive your right to make an argument at all.
I condemn attacks on civilians.
Then how can you see religion and politics making people condone attacks on civilians in yourself because of the unconscious influence of your upbringing?
I merely meant that it may mean I'm less likely to be outraged by things done in the name of the Israeli government. It doesn't change my view that Hamas is doing systematic terrorism (they even boast as such) right now, not does it change my negative view of Islam and Judaism. But in my defence, at least I acknowledge that some Israelis are doing war crimes - while I encounter others who ignore worse atrocities by Hamas when they criticize such war crimes by some Israelis, or who are generally unable to condemn attacks on civilians regardless of who is doing it.
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