Wow liberals! I'm independent and I have some concerns.... Your way of thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/K03zxXpVsZ8
smh ........................
who care if they rape 8 year old boys? They're oppressed! SEE their perspective! It's subjective.
colonialism!!!!
Last edited by chriscorey; 03-08-2024 at 05:47 AM.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Why did they build this? Not to mention the born and bred suicide bombers. They want the genocide of Israel and preach it. Meanwhile 20% of Israel is Muslim.
There are like 6 jews in Iran... This IS about genocide.
Where is everybody? I thought this was a concentration camp.
Last edited by chriscorey; 03-08-2024 at 06:42 AM.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Some good questions....
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
"Thank you so much. I’m gonna read. Thank you to the Academy for this honor and to our partners A24, Film4, Access, and Polish Film Institute; to the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum for their trust and guidance; to my producers, actors, collaborators. All our choices were made to reflect and confront us in the present — not to say, “Look what they did then,” rather, “Look what we do now.” Our film shows where dehumanization leads, at its worst. It shaped all of our past and present. Right now we stand here as men who refute their Jewishness and the Holocaust being hijacked by an occupation, which has led to conflict for so many innocent people. Whether the victims of October the — [Applause.] Whether the victims of October the 7th in Israel or the ongoing attack on Gaza, all the victims of this dehumanization, how do we resist? [Applause.] Aleksandra Bystroń-Kołodziejczyk, the girl who glows in the film, as she did in life, chose to. I dedicate this to her memory and her resistance. Thank you."
-Jonathan Glazer accepting the Oscar at the 2024 Academy Awards for Best International Film, The Zone of Interest.
"war is bad" :*(
Whew... it took courage to say that.
"It's a Genocide! It's a holocaust!" - It's a war. What did you think war looked like...? Every war in history has been completely ugly and brutal, with tons of civilians suffering. So what, all wars are bad...? That's your point?
Tell us something we don't know...
But wars happen... sometimes they're declared in self defense... We can't think and operate in the realm of fairy tales, where we fantasize about some land of avatar where there's no war and we set policy decisions blindly based on this dreamland of ideals and fairies, and masochistically accept the consequences onto our own civilian populations when things don't turn out like avatar land, we have to live and think in the real world, and reason on that level.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-12-2024 at 04:56 PM.
Here's a thought. Why are you pro billionaire left?Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman
Or are you delusional?
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Why are you pro-unicorn?
I'm pro kisses *smooch*
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
1. What does this have to do with socionics? Why don't you just go post about it on Substack?
2. Why is most of this site still alt-right? Now neither FreelancePoliceman nor chriscorey are despite arguing with each other... or rather because they're arguing with each other. Everyone else is too far gone for them to even argue with. Everyone else is basically in /pol/ territory. You can come back from there, but not by arguing. Though I don't think you can win someone who's closer to your side but still on the other side over by arguing, either.
1) The thread is in the "politics, philosophy, economics" section of the forum... what did you think this subforum was for, assigning countries sociotypes?
2) If you don't have a rational argument to contribute please don't derail the thread with mindless political jargon.
1. Why wouldn't you enjoy this conversation more somewhere where there was a better quality of discussion?
2. Hmm, you're talking to yourself, interesting.
In certain places this has actually been a serious and interesting conversation. Granted now and again it has been derailed by toddlers who felt the need to assert their arbitrary, meaningless political leanings without justifying their position with any substantive argument. But there have been multiple people who have made interesting posts detailing the history, with links and so fourth. Not you, you're just a muppet with nothing to contribute, but others in the thread have.
This has not been an interesting discussion at all. All the things you think are "new" here are things I heard months ago...
Looking through your earlier posts you demonstrated a profound ignorance regarding violence in the Qu'ran, and you were corrected by subT on that. That was an opportunity for you to learn something, but not surprisingly you just kept arguing.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-15-2024 at 05:03 PM.
you're stronger than me for even trying to rationalize a person like him. will he ever change I wonder, surely a person can't live inside the same bubble for decades, surely...
I do not care about people online most of the time. I might get annoyed but I usually forget about it immediatly after I log out so it's whatever. I guess you are more emotionally affected by words. I generally find it interesting that people who are critical of israel tend to be intellectuals and artists or humanists, while people in favor of israel have neoliberal tendencies. It seems to me that the latter group is considering themselves "realistic" and paying more attention on contracts, while the former group has a high awareness that the state of israel shouldn't exist in the first place. A perspective I personally share. Naturally I wonder why that is. People like DogshitofDanger say we aren't living in a "fairy tail land", but I think that's right-wing populism.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
The vast majority of world leaders, as well as the general population, agree with me, not you - my support of Israel isn't right wing populism, it is the mainstream opinion and has been for a very long time... infact unwavering support of Israel was Bidens position before he realized the far left elements of his party were rebelling against him, and he started towing the line very carefully with his public statements, yet he still supports Israel behind the scenes... so who's in the bubble, exactly?
Anyway, to be in a bubble suggests some denial of information, but I've addressed criticisms and justified my position... you haven't, you've basically gotten morally offended and talked crap when your opinion was criticized. That is much more what it means to be "in a bubble".
The claim that Israel should not exist is the Hamas position. It denies all basis for Israels existence historically and in the present day. This position suggests that 10 million Israelis ought to be forced from their homes and made to migrate back to Europe or elsewhere... that's no exaggeration, it is literally what Hamas calls for. Such a forced mass migration would be a human rights violation, it would be logistically impossible, and it will never happen, so why take the suggestion seriously? And there are colonies all over the globe, including the United States which was one big colony - should we do the same in those countries...? And if not, why not...?
Why force the population who was born and raised there from their homes to make room for... natives who have never lived there, who are not even large enough in population to occupy all the land, who themselves conquered the land and took it from someone else at some point, natives who already have homes in another city, natives who have not worked to develop the nation into what it is today, why...?
Israel ought to exist because:
a) Britain owned the small strip of land that was the initial Israeli settlement, and had the legal right to give it to the Jews. The Jews did not take the land by conquest, it was given to them,
b) the Arabs declared war in 1948 and lost, ceding the vast majority of the land that is present day Israel,
c) the Jews have a history on that land that traces back millennia,
d) the Jews are willing to share the land, it is the Palestinians who are not,
e) 10 million Jews live there now.
d and e are really the reasons that matter the most, anyway. It would just never make sense to force a large civilian population from their homes due merely to childish tit-for-tat squabbles over what one country did to another in history.
Carry onward!
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-16-2024 at 02:37 PM.
I thought that Hamas' position wasn't to move the Jews to another country, but rather to exterminate every one of them where ever they presently are?
No, I think I've said their motive is to occupy the holy land, and that can be achieved either through Israel ceding the territory or, if they refuse to leave, through war. Israel does refuse to leave since the demand is impossible to meet, therefor the only practical option is war. The Jews occupying the holy land is considered intolerable... But in theory Hamas does consider this migration an option... I've also acknowledged that Hamas has multiple levels of motives, but that the religious motive is the critical one due to its policy implications, such as that it makes a two state solution unacceptable.
The easy hatred and othering of Jews enabled by Islam is nonetheless a primary factor, but I think land is the main point of contention.
But if you want evidence of Hamas's hatred of Jews you could watch the videos where they call for the death of Jews openly and glorify martyrdom, then you wouldn't have to speculate and be confused. Or you could just look at their conduct on Oct 7. Those were not military targets... what do you think could possibly motivate targeting of civilians like that, if it isn't hatred...? Would you ever kill thousands of civilians in "resistance" of an occupying force - i.e. your water being shut off...? And they do have water in the city, we can see that...
Keep cherry-picking from the sidelines while contributing nothing, as usual.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-16-2024 at 02:19 PM.
Your 1st link isn't accessible, but your 2nd link is actually quite good evidence of what I've been saying and what we're talking about. If there are particular passages you feel like highlighting in that document feel free, otherwise I think it's pretty clear from the 2nd link this is primarily a religious movement.
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day or Resurrection."
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-16-2024 at 02:40 PM.
This is the thing I keep pointing out about this conflict. It's "Tribe A" vs. "Tribe B" and all either side will ever really comprehend is "My Tribe GOOD! Other Tribe BAD!"
The more intelligent among them will invent and promulgate all kinds of narratives meant to cover up that fact and those that do may well be convinced that's not what they're doing but it is what they are doing regardless (at least when I engage in such behavior I'm honest enough to admit it as I loathe dishonesty).
Again, it all boils down to the oldest story in the book. Resources are limited and some resources are more valuable than others (especially in a military sense). Tribe A wants what Tribe B has and why the hell wouldn't they? Tribe B controls a critical piece of infastructue/land/resource/sacred site/etc. If Tribe A had that instead everyone in Tribe A would be better off by an order of magnitude.
Fun Fact: If that betterment becomes several orders of magnitude even otherwise hostile tribes will shake hands and gang up on Tribe B and live in perfect harmony. Example: The United States. Controlling all of it gives the controlling power automatic Global Superpower Status. Hence why shit like the Civil War, Racial animosity, Catholics vs. Protestants (I could go on and on) have been largely swept under the rug until our current ruling elite got so sinful (and thus stupid) enough to actually try and force these issues.
NOW, and only now, is Civil War 2 on the table. That it took this long given how riven our society ought to be given everyone else's historical experience ought to prove my point most adroitly. Sadly for the Palestinians the Israelis actually possess Strategic Nukes. The "Samson Option" is what's keeping the other players out of the game for darn good reason. It'd really suck to have to rebuild all that Oil Infrastructure on top of planes of glowing radioactive glass.
Though like I've also said, the Israelis will win the war but lose the peace. The Palestinians are actually having kids. Many of them. In expat communities no less where even Mossad won't dare go as far as they'd need to to snuff out that threat. And, well, it's hard to make bombing civilian population centers look good.
It's more complex than your typical tribe A wants land from tribe B, because in this case, due to the religious factor, tribe A feels it must by divine command take back the land of tribe B. And the typical motives of self-interest that limit fanaticism are undermined by the religion, and appeals to mutual self-interest that would work to negotiate a peace between your average tribe A and tribe B are not at play. The religious factor really escalates the conflict from the typical self-interest driven one to something of an armageddon style fanaticism driven one.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-17-2024 at 02:48 PM.
I think you libs and conservatives are disgusting.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Wars mostly happen due to enormous differences in income and development and mostly because an economically exploited nation decides not to be exploited anymore...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yeah just ignore every other point liberal
Israel should tell Palestine to fuck off. No water, no electricity.
Last edited by chriscorey; 03-17-2024 at 08:26 AM.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
"I'm a very logical person that sees both sides"
"Let's starve the civillians to death! Cut off water to the average person. They deserve it"
"I'm totally not an emotional dimwit"
"Eat shit liberals!"
"You are a narcissist for pointing out what a miserable piece of shit I am"
DogshitofDanger: "my logic tells me this is reasonable. *continues to give spambots advice on transgender issues*
Last edited by Ikite iru; 03-17-2024 at 09:34 AM.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
With you it's like I'm arguing with a terrible 2's who can't reason like an adult without losing control and banging on the walls or something. I've always found it's the ones who fancy themselves as most compassionate and humane who most readily fly off the handle when confronted, and who will attempt to degrade / ostracize those who disagree with them. On the other hand, those who as we're told lack compassion are typically the ones who will behave with perfect cordiality in disagreements, and are able to explain themselves and justify their attitudes, like grown adults are expected to. I could get dragged down into this back and fourth with you but it just seems completely pointless seeing as you're really saying nothing substantive, and it'd derail the actual conversation.
The people in Gaza have water, you cannot live for more than a few days without water. They would all be dead if they did not have water. The population of Gaza is doubling every 30 years.... they definitely have water.
It is Palestine that declared war and continues to insist on it, if Palestine wanted peace they could attain it. There are consequences to that, and they do not get my sympathy.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-17-2024 at 02:06 PM.
And you're talking about Gaza, or just in general...? Can you describe how Gaza has been economically exploited? An economically exploited nation is one where the nations workers don't receive the benefits of their labor, and it goes to some other place. They've been economically suppressed, but that's due to their foreign policy stance. Hence the solution to that would not be for them to declare war, but to undeclare it. Infact they've been in a declared state of war for a very long time, and that hasn't gotten them anywhere. For example, in 1948 the Arab states declared war, and in retaliation Israel took the majority of its land.
These days wars usually happen when superpowers locked in a power struggle are fighting over some defenseless proxy state... but there are alot of reasons war can happen.
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-17-2024 at 02:29 PM.
I'm not denying that emotional people can be hypocritical, pretty much everyone in the western world is in one way or another, but I often find that it's those who consider themselves "logical" and "objective" and "reasonable" who commit a lot of attrocities. Chriscorey seems absolutely hate-filled and pretends to be "objective" and with comments like "cut off their water and electricity" you can see behind the shallow persona they are presenting into their true self. Meanwhile you tell me something about human rights violations while you don't bat an eye at bombings of civillians while you justify your position with papers that the average person isn't even caring about. You have the same kind of collective perception as all betas but instead of emotions, you are anal about definitions, then you criticise those who do feel empathy for people and places that get bombed to shit. "The world isn't a fairy tale", I guess you can justify anything with that. You remind me a lot of sol, the bastion of truth who hit on an underage woman because oh so logical people are loners with no game or social skills. Give me a break
Man, you're as ethical as they come. It's hilariously funny that you think you're the only "logical type" on here.
No i meant in general.
In this specific case...it's an ongoing war since decades so there is nothing special.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Are you insane, i was talking in general not this specific case.
I think in this case its terrorists vs colonists, not an organized war among countries.
Also we italians are in europe the wife of the rich exploiters so of course we don't mind it. (I have 3 US bases in a radius of 150 km).
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
You tend to break this down along socionics lines but it's a mischaracterization, this is much better characterized as being a matter of emotional regulation vs dysregulation... which is a struggle between control of the higher rational mind, associated with the higher brain regions like the cortex and frontal lobes, and the older more primitive areas of the brain like the medulla which are associated with the more primitive emotional reactions. The healthier expression of emotion is one where you're in control and the emotions are regulated by the higher rational mind. Pretty much every real psychologist agrees on that.
The Arab leaders who started these wars did not do so based on reason, but on some irrational Islamic fanaticism. It's ultimately much more of an erratic emotional reaction than a rational one. If the Palestinians were rational they'd just come to the negotiating table and accept a two state solution. They had decades of opportunity to do that... to this day it's still their stance that their land will be reclaimed "from the rivers to the seas" and all this flowery pseudo-religious language. And the Palestinian people who support Hamas are likewise behaving like emotionally erratic tards caught up in the same religious fundamentalism and tit-for-tat versioning of history / petty squabbling over who has a true claim to the land.
It is beyond question that we need emotional regulation when making foreign policy decisions....
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-17-2024 at 06:37 PM.
Hamas wrote that charter and cares about it, and it describes their foreign policy stance, which is what we're talking about here. It's Hamas that makes the political decisions on behalf of Palestine, not the everyday Palestinian. So for you to say you don't even care about those papers... basically means that you couldn't care a less about the actual political situation we're dealing with. In which case I don't know why you're bothering to comment on the political situation, seeing as you've just acknowledged you're willfully ignorant about it.
The trouble with your emotional reaction is you're not considering the cause and effect that led to these events, which we've discussed numerous times, but you're also not weighing alternatives for Israel while contending with their broad utilitarian implications, in order to determine what the actual best course of action is. Meaning that your emotional erraticism would only lead to a worse outcome. If you were to just consider Oct 7 in isolation, from a utilitarian standpoint, you could try to argue Israel should refrain from retaliating, or retaliate on a lesser scale - a prisoner who's threatening to kill you but is in a straight jacket and unarmed is not someone you need to go beat down. But on Oct 7 Hamas didn't merely kill X number of civilians, Hamas proved that they are willing to back up their words, and mercilessly slaughter large numbers of civilians in an attack that took Israel by complete surprise. And afterwards they doubled down and said there will be more such attacks, again and again. Palestine is an existential threat to Israel. Furthermore, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons with the prospect of supplying them to Hamas. It is a reality of the nuclear age that the potential for destruction, and the stakes between warring countries are very high... statements such as we intend to wipe X country off the map cannot be tolerated. And certainly I am in no position to mandate that Israel tolerate such things.
But even if you're not considering nuclear... the longer Hamas is in power the more entrenched they'll become, the more weapons they'll acquire... and ultimately the more bloody the inevitable war which they state is their ultimate goal, and demonstrated a willingness to bring about will be. Unless you expect us to just count on Hamas to ditch their political views and make a turn for peace. I see absolutely no sign of that from them, their public statements today are basically unchanged from when their charter was first released, their political views are fundamentally religious views and they will retain those views until the very end. Israel is under no obligation to gamble its safety on this lost cause of holding out for Hamas to abandon radical Islam, all for the wellbeing of those who have declared Israels death and destruction to be their top priority.
Israel has a legal right to self defense... the war they've declared is perfectly justified under international law.
It is unfortunate that Hamas has dragged its civilian population into this mess - there is broad support for Hamas in Palestine, but certainly there are innocent civilians caught up in this - but civilian casualties are just a reality of this world in which war exists, and completely inescapable. There is no scenario where this gets resolved without civilian casualties. The best that can possibly be done to minimize the damage is for us to make the wisest, most informed and educated decisions possible. Which means being rational, not being led by primitive, erratic emotions.
For example, if you pull a gun on a police officer you are legally liable to be shot. Events like that might enrage you, but again I do not care, you should not have pulled the gun. We have plenty of spastic activists here in the US that do get enraged by these kinds of things, and go around burning courthouses and occupying city blocks when such things happen... (only when they're told to do so by the news, though. Prior to elections). These idiots pretend they are compassionate, but when you point out the fact the suspect was armed, or charging police, or infact swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl as in one recent case... these people become enraged. Much like you, they do not care about the actual sequence of events that occurred or about reasoning clearly on what to do about them. And we, the normal people that remain here in the US, mock them publicly, and we call them retarded, and we ignore them...
Last edited by DogOfDanger; 03-19-2024 at 09:12 PM.
No, I'm not insane. Well...not really. I was drunk. I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Ok you were drunk, no problem then
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Alive wants to defame me like most crazy libsz. He started with my political stance.
There are two political parties... red and blue. I'm purple. I'm American.
He attacked my intelligence. Fine. My professors coined me as genuis, but whatever. ? Why am I mad?
What's wrong with average intelligent people? Nothing. The BEST people I ever knew had average intelligence.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
and you're into socialism. Or do you deny that? Simple question.
Israel was there before the Romans named it Palastine to offend the Jews....
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
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