good job for LII that isnt math, science, tech stuff

[anotherperson]

Now, battle-typing a self-typed LII to SEE is just trolling. Wouldn't the most likely ethical type based on his brief self-description be IEI, not SEE?

i dont see it as a battle. im just asking questions and getting answers

[Metamorph]

between what and what

He's trolling. If you're not Se-dominant, you can't be Si-ignoring. If you think you're introverted you're almost certainly not an extraverted irrational social club type. Socionics is all fake news anyway and you wouldn't like the history of this site, but if you really want to pick a non-STEM job IEI makes way more sense than SEE. I wouldn't make decisions based on this site, though. Everyone should just get a STEM job. Those are the best ones. All the creative kinds of jobs just get you into the song "Fame" by David Bowie, physical labor is so inferior to mental it can be replaced by robots, doing things socially can sound fun until you realize that as a diplomat your job mostly consists of being shot at and kidnapped. Even the people who taught humanities to me as I grew up now wish they learned STEM instead. I would highly recommend STEM. Something like IT and something else like biological research are very, very different from each other. We should have a 16 types of STEM economy imo, and get rid of this outdated Soviet model trying to make people into homemakers and whatever, and I'd view MBTI as pretty socialist too, it gives you a government job does it not. Robots can do all the menial stuff if we get our act together.

[Distance]

between what and what

Do you believe the stereotype or the functions?

[anotherperson]

He's trolling. If you're not Se-dominant, you can't be Si-ignoring. If you think you're introverted you're almost certainly not an extraverted irrational social club type. Socionics is all fake news anyway and you wouldn't like the history of this site, but if you really want to pick a non-STEM job IEI makes way more sense than SEE. I wouldn't make decisions based on this site, though. Everyone should just get a STEM job. Those are the best ones. All the creative kinds of jobs just get you into the song "Fame" by David Bowie, physical labor is so inferior to mental it can be replaced by robots, doing things socially can sound fun until you realize that as a diplomat your job mostly consists of being shot at and kidnapped. Even the people who taught humanities to me as I grew up now wish they learned STEM instead. I would highly recommend STEM. Something like IT and something else like biological research are very, very different from each other. We should have a 16 types of STEM economy imo, and get rid of this outdated Soviet model trying to make people into homemakers and whatever, and I'd view MBTI as pretty socialist too, it gives you a government job does it not. Robots can do all the menial stuff if we get our act together.

idk what can of worms i just opened, but i am not much for politics. i just wanna hear him out man

[anotherperson]

Do you believe the stereotype or the functions?

uhhh functions first. stereotypes second.

[Metamorph]

How do you square the questionnaire?

I'm pretty opposed to socionics in general and this site in particular, but still sounds much more IEI than SEE.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
numberology. numbers are really accursed man. we didnt invent math, we only gentrified it.
ghosts are real but their not from this dimension. telepathy is real. telekinesis is real but near impossible (unless you have quantum on you)

colours also carry hidden meanings. reality exists in layers (subreal, real, hyperreal).

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
i do not have long conversations. i prefer to do over talk. i have many interests, including personality theory, paranormal, videogames, metaphysics, but being outdoors is nice too, but only with a friend. I can't pinpoint why i like what i like, maybe its Se-Ni valuement.

What do you think of daily chores?
i am indifferent to daily chores. i'll do them if i have to but i will be on autopilot

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
I feel stuck in a rut when it seems other people push me down and get away with it. IT makes me feel like im doomed to fail, bejinxed, unlucky. I usually simmer in anger but try to avoid blowing up, due to fear of retribution. i try to cope with things in my control, but i fear everytthing could be taken from me.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
im ambivalent about sex. there are some thnigs i want to try, but other aspects of it i find awful. i prefer symbolic displays of sexuality over the actual act of it. Romance, i sometimes desire, sometimes disdain. i often wonder if i can give enough to a partner or if ill be left behind similarly to friendships. i want a partner who has goals, is self-confident, and doesnt expect emotional displays from me. one who supports me instead of challenging me.

How do you behave around strangers?
around strangers i am vigilant. i do not trust strangers. i will maintain cordiality but thats it. i am disinterested in getting to know someone or being a part of their projects.

Saying some philosophical stuff about power shouldn't be Se or Nietzsche would've been SEE. His descriptions of his bevahior sounds introverted, irrational, intuitive, and ethical to me. However, I would discourage anyone identifying with a type. The point is just to give people a role in the workforce and I think everyone should do STEM so I disregard that. Additionally, this site was founded to relate the sociotypes to Oldham styles, aka, euphemized personality disorders, so if someone really wants to learn typology, I'd recommend they got to PerC or some kind of chatroom instead.

[Distance]

Have look here: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/SEE.html

[Distance]

I'm pretty opposed to socionics in general and this site in particular, but still sounds much more IEI than SEE.














Saying some philosophical stuff about power shouldn't be Se or Nietzsche would've been SEE. His descriptions of his bevahior sounds introverted, irrational, intuitive, and ethical to me. However, I would discourage anyone identifying with a type. The point is just to give people a role in the workforce and I think everyone should do STEM so I disregard that. Additionally, this site was founded to relate the sociotypes to Oldham styles, aka, euphemized personality disorders, so if someone really wants to learn typology, I'd recommend they got to PerC or some kind of chatroom instead.

As we know i'm going by his statements in the questionnaire. Do you see Si role? And he doesn't parse IEI here. I see no Ti or the format they role out in.

You can type him that way, but let's see if he identifies with the type?

Let's let him choose that.

[anotherperson]

Have look here: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/SEE.html

ill see how i feel tmrw. am tired.

[Distance]

ill see how i feel tmrw. am tired.

good night. this thread got derailed a bit. Better now than later. It rolled out the wrong way.

[Metamorph]

As we know i'm going by his statements in the questionnaire. Do you see Si role? And he doesn't parse IEI here. I see no Ti or the format they role out in.

You can type him that way, but let's see if he identifies with the type?

Let's let him choose that.

I see Ti and not really any Te. He has models of the Universe with subreal, real, and hyperreal. He only likes to have a small number of close friends and doesn't do a lot of talking or outward displays of emotion. His Si role is when he does his chores on autopilot. None of this socionics stuff is really real, but he seems very clearly introverted to me so that should rule out SEE off the bat. Things like having ambitions should have nothing to do with Se even if he says he values ambitions. I think lots of introverted people have ambitions, even ones who barely want to do chores. He can pick whatever type he wants, though I'd prefer he pick none of them except as a curiosity and just focus on living his life. People who do socionics are always avoiding something, and anyway, the site used to be called "not a dating site" with the implication there was porn, which there really was sadly, it was just all in Discord and probably irc chats before then.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well, I suppose LIIs should do well around diversely combinatoric thinking fields that do not require mass amounts of details and involves constructing holistic systems/views.

[Tallmo]

am asking for a friend


i know someone who is LII-H but they doesnt like math science stuff and feel jaded at the workforce. what job can they do where theyre happy that isnt a "nerdy" job such as IT. (must be legal)



_{(i am not asking for a friend. i just dont wanna get caught in the wrong TIM again... but this time i had someone else type me.)}

I know one LII-H and she studied business, but then she didn't like it and went back to school and studied medicine. I think she is a doctor or therapist now.

LIIs I know are psychiatrist, psychologist (research), IT, one works in government administration, matematician, linguist.

LIIs gravitate towards research. So a research career, in the field of the person's interst, could be a good bet.

EDIT: ok, so it couldn't be science. Then simply studying whatever the person likes and going as far as possible in that field could be a way forward.

[Enters Laughing]

@anotherperson probably best to take some Holland code tests.

I created a speculative table of what Holland codes might be most suitable for each type:

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1536764

I suspect Investigative (I) would be best for LIIs, but you really need to take a test.

I'm an EII, and I think Investigative (I) and Conventional (C) suits me well (so combos like I, C, IC, CI), so I rate Conventional a lot higher than that table suggests I should.

Also, you might find this table useful: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...and-Occupation

LII might best fit RCOEI or RLOEI.

Similarminds itself has suggestions for each of its 32 types also - I recently concluded it is likely to be highly accurate. https://similarminds.com/global5/rcoei.html

[Muira]

@anotherperson probably best to take some Holland code tests.

I created a speculative table of what Holland codes might be most suitable for each type:

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1536764

I suspect Investigative (I) would be best for LIIs, but you really need to take a test.

I'm an EII, and I think Investigative (I) and Conventional (C) suits me well (so combos like I, C, IC, CI), so I rate Conventional a lot higher than that table suggests I should.

Not to be rude, but big 5 is a lot more flexible, thus the same 5 five types can apply to multiple MBTI types, it all comes down to the reasoning why someone is that way based on the big 5.

Though it seems that you used MBTI in terms of letter typing instead of functions. Just letter typing isn't always equated with MBTI in terms of functions. You probably already know this, but just saying so other people are not confused.

[Enters Laughing]

Not to be rude, but big 5 is a lot more flexible, thus the same 5 five types can apply to multiple MBTI types, it all comes down to the reasoning why someone is that way based on the big 5.

Though it seems that you used MBTI in terms of letter typing instead of functions. Just letter typing isn't always equated with MBTI in terms of functions. You probably already know this, but just saying so other people are not confused.

Sure, I'm just suggesting what might be good starting points. @anotherperson could take a Similarminds test if they want an indication.

[anotherperson]

As we know i'm going by his statements in the questionnaire. Do you see Si role? And he doesn't parse IEI here. I see no Ti or the format they role out in.

You can type him that way, but let's see if he identifies with the type?

Let's let him choose that.

new idea. what if i take the other questionnaire too. imma do that and maybe yoiulll have more info.

[Muira]

I can't help but just cringe at how shit this site is at typing a lot of the times. @anotherperson Just answer a questionnaire I'm gonna give you, remember to actually take your time(3 days recommended), also for each question,

-I'll need you to give me one example from your past experience, and an explanation

-If the question is hard, say it's hard to answer.

-Create your own copy.
________________________________________________

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing


Here is an example of me answering one of the questions:

(Q) Describe your relationship to factual data, pragmatic/efficient thought, and competency in your environment. Is it important for you to feel well informed or supported by factual data, is this more important than your own ideological consistency? Explain. How important is it for you to ultimately do what works most efficiently or provides the most profit based on your own factual knowledge?

(A) I can handle massive amounts of information depending if I’m in the mood for it. Usually I like to make diagrams, graphs, etc, in order to understand what I am learning. I think my logic is consistent, though I over generalize, for example large groups of people for example when making a point. I can understand the complexity of this work, but my views are still black and white because I constantly feel the need to classify something.

(example from experience) For example, people say that gender is separate from pronouns, but you get charged or even loose your job for using the wrong pronouns, which then is called misgendering, which is seems to be supported by emotions and logic insconstitancy. So pronouns would be based on gender, and are if they cause such a identity crisis. I can’t just leave things on being on their own. I often generally tend to try to dissect information, and understand it before I make a judgement.

(Explanation) For example when someone says that girls are weaker than boys, I'd first ask on terms of what, as I do understand that girls and boys have a very distinct body traits, as boys are much more muscular on average due to higher testosterone. However in terms of mental strength and other factors, it has more to do with environmental factors, such as culture, childhood, trauma, etc. As boys tend to be more mentally stronger because society is harsher on boys when raising them, however if you look at girls who were raised harshly, they tend to be on par. So it's not really about sex in that way. Then, after understanding what that person means, and applying my knowledge and contextual understanding, then I'd judge in terms of if that person's statement is valid.

________________________________________________

There has got to be no way you'll fuck this up.

[anotherperson]

I can't help but just cringe at how shit this site is at typing a lot of the times. @anotherperson Just answer a questionnaire I'm gonna give you, remember to actually take your time(3 days recommended), also for each question,

-I'll need you to give me one example from your past experience, and an explanation

-If the question is hard, say it's hard to answer.

-Create your own copy.
________________________________________________

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing


Here is an example of me answering one of the questions:

(Q) Describe your relationship to factual data, pragmatic/efficient thought, and competency in your environment. Is it important for you to feel well informed or supported by factual data, is this more important than your own ideological consistency? Explain. How important is it for you to ultimately do what works most efficiently or provides the most profit based on your own factual knowledge?

(A) I can handle massive amounts of information depending if I’m in the mood for it. Usually I like to make diagrams, graphs, etc, in order to understand what I am learning. I think my logic is consistent, though I over generalize, for example large groups of people for example when making a point. I can understand the complexity of this work, but my views are still black and white because I constantly feel the need to classify something.

(example from experience) For example, people say that gender is separate from pronouns, but you get charged or even loose your job for using the wrong pronouns, which then is called misgendering, which is seems to be supported by emotions and logic insconstitancy. So pronouns would be based on gender, and are if they cause such a identity crisis. I can’t just leave things on being on their own. I often generally tend to try to dissect information, and understand it before I make a judgement.

(Explanation) For example when someone says that girls are weaker than boys, I'd first ask on terms of what, as I do understand that girls and boys have a very distinct body traits, as boys are much more muscular on average due to higher testosterone. However in terms of mental strength and other factors, it has more to do with environmental factors, such as culture, childhood, trauma, etc. As boys tend to be more mentally stronger because society is harsher on boys when raising them, however if you look at girls who were raised harshly, they tend to be on par. So it's not really about sex in that way. Then, after understanding what that person means, and applying my knowledge and contextual understanding, then I'd judge in terms of if that person's statement is valid.

________________________________________________

There has got to be no way you'll fuck this up.

i have looked that the questions. almost all of them seem difficult to answer. this is why i have so much trouble on sociotyping tests; because i do not understand what im being asked, and the relationship to real world context.

[anotherperson]

i finished the other questionnaire if you want to see it

[Muira]

i have looked that the questions. almost all of them seem difficult to answer. this is why i have so much trouble on sociotyping tests; because i do not understand what im being asked, and the relationship to real world context.

That's because they are complex, please take your time, and remember to explain "why". Just take as much time as you need, I wouldn't even mind if you actually took 1-2 weeks.
I'll even guide you on the questions you have trouble on.

[Muira]

i finished the other questionnaire if you want to see it

Sure!

[anotherperson]

That's because they are complex, please take your time, and remember to explain "why". Just take as much time as you need, I wouldn't even mind if you actually took 1-2 weeks.
I'll even guide you on the questions you have trouble on.

i will proably finish it by one hour max (maybe Ni is not my good function.) if the answers are borderline unintelligible, dont act shocked. i do not respect conventions an awful much (takes too much brain energy).

[Muira]

i will proably finish it by one hour max (maybe Ni is not my good function.) if the answers are borderline unintelligible, dont act shocked. i do not respect conventions an awful much (takes too much brain energy).

No! Take your time, the problem why people can't type your ass is that you won't take your time actually answering the questions thoroughly. Just do one section a day, not the whole thing in an hour. Don't fuck this up, I gave you a plan that was catered to help me(and others) to accurately type you, now you have to go through with it if you want to get your actual type.

It's better to have one questionnaire with more effort and quality put into it, than a bunch of gibberish on a bunch of useless questionnaires.

Just take your time. Stop wasting time and energy. Don't pressure yourself.

[anotherperson]

No! Take your time, the problem why people can't type your ass is that you won't take your time actually answering the questions thoroughly. Just do one section a day, not the whole thing in an hour. Don't fuck this up, I gave you a plan that was catered to help me(and others) to accurately type you, now you have to go through with it if you want to get your actual type.

It's better to have one questionnaire with more effort and quality put into it, than a bunch of gibberish on a bunch of useless questionnaires.

Just take your time. Stop wasting time and energy. Don't pressure yourself.

i dont feel pressure unless i have to take my time. if i dont get it done quick, the clarity of thought will leave me. i was on a roll just a minute ago; everything came to me clearly like a vision.

[Muira]

i dont feel pressure unless i have to take my time. if i dont get it done quick, the clarity of thought will leave me. i was on a roll just a minute ago; everything came to me clearly like a vision.

That's good, just do some every day, good?

Also take this test when you can. https://sociotype.xyz/

Here are my results for example, pretty accurate.


[img][/img]
Screenshot-2023-06-15-1-24-37-PM.png

[anotherperson]

That's good, just do some every day, good?

Also take this test when you can. https://sociotype.xyz/

Here are my results for example, pretty accurate.


[img]https://ibb.co/T1SYq4y[/img]

no, not good. i know what im thinking now, not later. i swear im not rushing just to be done. my mind just thinks fast and in bursts. please do not make me come back to this tomorrow, for i will doubt everything from yesterday its not done.

(trust me man. you cannot make me try to spend more time then i am spending already. but i promise i will go back and review the answers i found nonintrinsic).

about the sociotype test, taken it often. usually i get ESI, but theres been some variations. i love that website in all honestly.

[Muira]

no, not good. i know what im thinking now, not later. i swear im not rushing just to be done. my mind just thinks fast and in bursts. please do not make me come back to this tomorrow, for i will doubt everything from yesterday its not done.

(trust me man. you cannot make me try to spend more time then i am spending already. but i promise i will go back and review the answers i found nonintrinsic).

about the sociotype test, taken it often. usually i get ESI, but theres been some variations. i love that website in all honestly.

Hmm, I did suspect you being ESI, you also seem very Te seeking, but still take the questionnaire with time, be more patient.

[anotherperson]

Hmm, I did suspect you being ESI, you also seem very Te seeking, but still take the questionnaire with time, be more patient.

how about this. i finish answering all the questions. then go do something else. thencome back and make nessecary revisions. i have not yet taken care of affairs anyway.

also, i dont remember any good reason i refused ESI. i think i just got too curious of other types (i didnt fit the anal-retentive stereotype of ESI.) i mightve opened a can of worms for nothing.

[Muira]

how about this. i finish answering all the questions. then go do something else. thencome back and make nessecary revisions. i have not yet taken care of affairs anyway.

also, i dont remember any good reason i refused ESI. i think i just got too curious of other types (i didnt fit the anal-retentive stereotype of ESI.) i mightve opened a can of worms for nothing.

Hm, well I could also see you being EIE, go ahead.

[Enters Laughing]

That's good, just do some every day, good?

Also take this test when you can. https://sociotype.xyz/

Here are my results for example, pretty accurate.


[img][/img]
Screenshot-2023-06-15-1-24-37-PM.png

I've not seen this test before today, I will have to take it eventually.

From what I've seen, the questions look like they're high quality.

Maybe the test is good for establishing Socionics type, however, Socionics isn't empirical so a lot of associations probably aren't valid and I wouldn't use it as a means of suggesting suitable careers or relationships.

Also, with questionnaires: they're very time-consuming, rely on a lot of value judgements from those analysing the data - people who are not qualified in psychology invariably, and there's just no rigour in methodology. In the Big Five, it is known that "I am the life of the party." is highly correlated with Extroversion, not merely asserted. Also, you can administer the same test to each individual and ask them if they agree with the statement "I am the life of the party." - no need for someone analysing the data to wonder if a person who says something similar means exactly that. I really think a good test is better.

[anotherperson]

I've not seen this test before today, I will have to take it eventually.

From what I've seen, the questions look like they're high quality.

Maybe the test is good for establishing Socionics type, however, Socionics isn't empirical so a lot of associations probably aren't valid and I wouldn't use it as a means of suggesting suitable careers or relationships.

Also, with questionnaires: they're very time-consuming, rely on a lot of value judgements from those analysing the data - people who are not qualified in psychology invariably, and there's just no rigour in methodology. In the Big Five, it is known that "I am the life of the party." is highly correlated with Extroversion, not merely asserted. Also, you can administer the same test to each individual and ask them if they agree with the statement "I am the life of the party." - no need for someone analysing the data to wonder if a person who says something similar means exactly that. I really think a good test is better.

the questions on this test are bit weird. but i like how human the questions feel. i dont know any kind of person who actually says "Yeah ! im the life of the party !"

every test has its merits and demerits.

[Enters Laughing]

the questions on this test are bit weird. but i like how human the questions feel.

Yeah, I liked the questions for that reason.

i dont know any kind of person who actually says "Yeah ! im the life of the party !"

every test has its merits and demerits.

Oh, I think extroverts are very like that generally.

[godslave]

@Manatroid92 proposed that test in this post a while ago. I got LII

[anotherperson]

Hm, well I could also see you being EIE, go ahead.

i took a break to complete daily affairs. and then i went back and revised my answers. answering the questions actually made me realise a lot of things about myself. but i will still give it to you if you want. I made sure to answer each one in detail (no one sentence answers. ) and did my best to communicate the why. (but im not always good at communicating clearly). i think what i did is pretty good to be honest.

[Riven]

@Manatroid92 proposed that test in this post a while ago. I got LII

I've got like at least 5 different types on this one. I once had a friend answer the questions having me in mind and she got LIE, with EIE being the second option. lol

[godslave]

I've got like at least 5 different types on this one. I once had a friend answer the questions having me in mind and she got LIE, with EIE being the second option. lol

That's the problem with tests in general, the more you take them the more you start to believe that you're psyche is similar to that of this guy :

 

[Muira]

I've got like at least 5 different types on this one. I once had a friend answer the questions having me in mind and she got LIE, with EIE being the second option. lol

I see, well I took my time with the test while also comparing it to my past experience and some of my general traits. The accuracy of any test directly correlates to the effort put into actually thinking thoroughly about how much we relate to the question, if we don't relate then we can skip. Even when I didn't understand something, I'd drag my friends to explain simple statements like

"I easily feel sympathy for people, even strangers' problems I often perceive almost as my own."

I don't get how someone else's problem is mine if it doesn't affect us, but I do like helping others in terms of giving them clear advice and knowledge, even introduce them into some philosophy into my explanations. It's much easier to empathize than sympathize, which still leads me to criticizing and ridiculing how someone handles a situation when I would have handled it, as I often think that most people usually put themselves in their unwanted situations, but I rather not assume until I get the full story. Which often makes me look like an asshole even when I clearly had good intentions. I don't know why I help people, nor do I care why, however it boils down to if I have time. So I put myself onto the lower end of the slide (1/4).

So basically:

- I looked over the meaning of the statement, first to see if I agreed with it.
- Look into my personal behavior and past behavior, and general patterns of my habits, does it align with the statement. If so, how much?
- Then I come to a conclusion overall based on that, then move on.
I usually don't doubt my own memories unless they are hazy, then I drag someone in, two people, one that dislikes me and likes me, if they agree, it's likely true.

[Muira]

That's the problem with tests in general, the more you take them the more you start to believe that you're psyche is similar to that of this guy :

 

The 16schizophrenics

[Muira]

how about this. i finish answering all the questions. then go do something else. thencome back and make nessecary revisions. i have not yet taken care of affairs anyway.

also, i dont remember any good reason i refused ESI. i think i just got too curious of other types (i didnt fit the anal-retentive stereotype of ESI.) i mightve opened a can of worms for nothing.

Well this site kinda fucks up socionics, good examples of ESI in media are Joel from "The last of us," Mikasa from Attack on Titan, Jon Snow from Wetseros, Jane Marjolis, Aki Hayakawa, etc. Most of them are really cool characters because they actually stand for shit than act like a fucking NPC that is a empty shell.

ESI is focused on their relations, inner values, they are more cold, they stand up for what they believe in. They can be stiff as fuck like a fucking statue, like LSI,