Some things I don't get about Christians

[Enters Laughing]

@HotAndCold

I'm sorry about your experiences. I don't have an experience anything like that, but I've certainly felt weighed down by past actions and wished I could live my life again without my regrets.

I think with an all-powerful being, normal rules don't apply. If you created a system to act a particular way, and have full control over it, then you absolutely are responsible for everything that happens. To say otherwise would be to shirk responsibility on to something you created. It would be like blaming a knife for the actions of the one wielding it.

In Norway, they focus on rehabilitation over punishment, and I think whole-life sentences don't exist (maybe there's one or two exceptions). It has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. So, they have not only rehabilitated criminals back into society, they have reduced crime too.

Reading the Wikipedia article on Jahannam: it says that the majority view of Muslim scholars is that it is eternal for non-Muslims, but not Muslims. Is that inaccurate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam

[godslave]

One cannot blame God if one doesn't believe it exist ! All that one sees about religions is Human beings following the prescriptions of scriptures with more or less devotion, understanding and sometimes fanaticism. When we look at the reality of our world, we don't see supernatural creatures ruling the world. We don't see supernatural creatures killing themselves in the name of God. We don't see supernatural creatures imposing the laws of God, we see people claiming to have inherited the power to do impose it by right and/or duty. We see human beings. Gods have always been us. One can't blame the God of people for the fanatic behaviors of certain "believers" and one can't reduce people to their religious beliefs or opinions. In Prime Directive we trust !

[Muira]

@HotAndCold

I'm sorry about your experiences. I don't have an experience anything like that, but I've certainly felt weighed down by past actions and wished I could live my life again without my regrets.

I think with an all-powerful being, normal rules don't apply. If you created a system to act a particular way, and have full control over it, then you absolutely are responsible for everything that happens. To say otherwise would be to shirk responsibility on to something you created. It would be like blaming a knife for the actions of the one wielding it.

In Norway, they focus on rehabilitation over punishment, and I think whole-life sentences don't exist (maybe there's one or two exceptions). It has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. So, they have not only rehabilitated criminals back into society, they have reduced crime too.

Reading the Wikipedia article on Jahannam: it says that the majority view of Muslim scholars is that it is eternal for non-Muslims, but not Muslims. Is that inaccurate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam

Well life is harsh, the best I can do is move on and perhaps prevent it from happening to someone else.

The problem is that is what imans say, it isn't clear in the quran. However, Muslim or not, one will get their fair punishment. Though people who don't believe get punished, people with pure hearts will be accepted. It's not absolute, if it was true than 100% of Muslim Scholars would agree upon it.

While yes, rehabilitation is great, but it only works on people with mental illnesses, addictions, ptsd, poor, etc. My main concern is who is going to fix people who are like Jeffery Dahmer? There are people who are still going to misbehave and not take charges seriously because of this system.

Perhaps, if the perpetrator was ill in some way or likely needed to steal something for survival, etc, then they can be eligible for an easier way out. How can prison be structured to be both rehabilitating but also disciplinary?

[Muira]

“Science is constantly proved all the time. You see, if we take something like any fiction, any holy book… and destroyed it, in a thousand years’ time, that wouldn’t come back just as it was. Whereas if we took every science book, and every fact, and destroyed them all, in a thousand years they’d all be back, because all the same tests would [produce] the same result.” ― Ricky Gervais

If you believe Allah is all-powerful, then you should believe it's possible for Allah to not only produced evidence now, but to produce evidence sufficient for everybody to believe the Islamic claims.

Otherwise Muhammad just seems identical to Joseph Smith for most people, or countless schizophrenics who imagines voices. As it is, the scientific, historical, and grammatical errors in The Qur'an should be sufficient to show that its authors are not free from error.

Well, how did we come to exist? How are the atoms in this universe existing if nothing can be destroyed or created?

How comes a lot of people seem to be having "hallucinations"?

How come there tends to be a belief in demons across the world? Why are there weird cases of people seeing the "demons" all go insane, but see the exact same things in detail? Unless they can see things that others may not have the ability to perceive? Why are there dogs barking at walls? Like a lot of dogs.

This world doesn't have much explanation unless we look for it.

[Muira]

I think the qur'an probably wasn't compiled in anything approaching its current forms until two centuries after Muhammad supposedly lived, although it has many chapters, stories, and passages that pre-date the alleged time of Muhammad. From what I understand, a lot of passages make more sense when understood as written by authors in the early period of the Abbasid Caliphate to settle political disputes. Similarly, the hadith was mostly written around this time (not existing prior). The biographies of Muhammad get more fleshed out over time: the further back you go, the less and less story these is to Muhammad until there is essentially nothing left.

I don't believe the supernatural claims of Islam, I certainly don't think the Qur'an has any special status compared to the hadith.

The quran is supposed to be written by Muhammad by himself, word for word when listening to god. (sounds painful). However, it is possible that the 'qurans' we have maybe forged, which then means it isn't the real quran. That's why we rely on old books and learn arabic for ourselves, as translations tend to get mixed up and twisted.

That being said, the hadiths aren't always going to be valid, and may be forged.

[Muira]

If women's rights in Islam are so good, why is mosque attendance amongst female Muslims in so-called Muslim countries so low, infrequent, or otherwise non-existent?

Indeed, mosque attendance is typically far higher amongst women in Western countries, although typically still the majority don't even attend once a week.

By contrast, in Western countries with a history of Christianity, it is common for church attendance to be higher amongst women rather than men.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion...igious-groups/

Well why is sodomy and other sins common in Muslim countries? Why does Afghanistan have a tradition of dressing boys like girls, then molesting them? Even though homosexuality, sodomy, grooming a child(prepubescent) into sexual acts, let alone fornicate with someone they are not married is Haram. Why do muslim countries not punish manwhores, but only women? Even though women and men are subjected to the same punishments for the same crime?

That's because of culture, not religion. Most people who claim a religion can be hypocrites.

Why do (most) christians shun gays even though God said, "Love thou neighbor."

[Muira]

You think God is separate from its creation, but you think God is all-powerful.

You probably also think it's possible for something to be created from nothing.

There are many religious claims that just don't make sense to me generally.

I have a thread called scientific dogma, check it out.

[Muira]

The "Satanic verses" incident (not the Rushdie version) in Islamic biographies of Muhammad shows that pagan moon god worship really could have influenced early Islamic thought.

If you look in a Arabic translated bible, you'll see that allah = god. It's just a direct translation between two languages. Allah has 99 names, but Allah is the widely used one among muslims. You can call god 神様、God, etc.

[Enters Laughing]

Well life is harsh, the best I can do is move on and perhaps prevent it from happening to someone else.

The problem is that is what imans say, it isn't clear in the quran. However, Muslim or not, one will get their fair punishment. Though people who don't believe get punished, people with pure hearts will be accepted. It's not absolute, if it was true than 100% of Muslim Scholars would agree upon it.

While yes, rehabilitation is great, but it only works on people with mental illnesses, addictions, ptsd, poor, etc. My main concern is who is going to fix people who are like Jeffery Dahmer? There are people who are still going to misbehave and not take charges seriously because of this system.

Perhaps, if the perpetrator was ill in some way or likely needed to steal something for survival, etc, then they can be eligible for an easier way out. How can prison be structured to be both rehabilitating but also disciplinary?

I'm probably far more idealistic than most people, but I think I appreciate that the practical reality is that some people will always need to be locked up for the safety of society. But torturing others just turns you into a monster.

[Enters Laughing]

Well, how did we come to exist? How are the atoms in this universe existing if nothing can be destroyed or created?

How comes a lot of people seem to be having "hallucinations"?

How come there tends to be a belief in demons across the world? Why are there weird cases of people seeing the "demons" all go insane, but see the exact same things in detail? Unless they can see things that others may not have the ability to perceive? Why are there dogs barking at walls? Like a lot of dogs.

This world doesn't have much explanation unless we look for it.

If nothing can be created or destroyed, then that's the answer. Everything must be eternal.

But that's probably falsifiable. I don't think "God" offers an answer, because it doesn't explain where "God" comes from, it merely asserts (it treats God as a brute fact rather than the universe\reality, which is arguably what scientists do.

Muhammad according to Islamic accounts believe that thunder is the result of angry angels. Superstitious try to rationalise what they can't explain through observation.

Supposedly, when people have near death experiences, they tend to have culture-specific experiences. For example, in Japan, they imagine themselves in a Zen-like garden, whereas Christians and Muslims might imagine Heaven.

[Enters Laughing]

The quran is supposed to be written by Muhammad by himself, word for word when listening to god. (sounds painful). However, it is possible that the 'qurans' we have maybe forged, which then means it isn't the real quran. That's why we rely on old books and learn arabic for ourselves, as translations tend to get mixed up and twisted.

That being said, the hadiths aren't always going to be valid, and may be forged.

As I may have mentioned before, I find the Pfanderfilms channel on Youtube informative about Islam, even though it's by someone with a pro-Christian bias. I'm biased too, but my honest perception is that his understanding of Islamic history is far closer to the truth than what Muslims typically believe, and that the average Muslim is extremely ignorant of the history of early Islam. I think the biographies of Muhammad and traditions associated with his time are essentially fabricated, and that pious Muslims as a whole are lacking in the ability and desire to examine Islam as a historical subject.

I have experience as an archaeologist for example, and I'm quite astonished how there have been billions of Muslims throughout history, but there's very little examination of the archaeological record for the claims of Islam. As Jay Smith from Pfandefilms points out, the Saudis have dug all around the Kaaba even though there are supposedly hundreds or thousands of saints buried there kneeling in an uncorrupted state, but there's no evidence that any of them have been found. There's also been no evidence whatsoever of the Mecca being the world's oldest city, nevermind the mother of all cities.

Even in the Western world where there has been serious research into the history of Islam, there has been a reluctance to publish research because they fear retaliation from some Muslims. I just wish it was possible for there to be open discussion of the evidence without fear.

[Enters Laughing]

Well why is sodomy and other sins common in Muslim countries? Why does Afghanistan have a tradition of dressing boys like girls, then molesting them? Even though homosexuality, sodomy, grooming a child(prepubescent) into sexual acts, let alone fornicate with someone they are not married is Haram. Why do muslim countries not punish manwhores, but only women? Even though women and men are subjected to the same punishments for the same crime?

That's because of culture, not religion. Most people who claim a religion can be hypocrites.

Why do (most) christians shun gays even though God said, "Love thou neighbor."

Indeed, and why does "God" care about consensual sexual relationships between mortals if it is supposed to be all-powerful?

[Enters Laughing]

If you look in a Arabic translated bible, you'll see that allah = god. It's just a direct translation between two languages. Allah has 99 names, but Allah is the widely used one among muslims. You can call god 神様、God, etc.

From what I can tell, there's some disagreement about the label attached to your god which you see as identical to the Jewish one: which seems very trivial to me, when religious people can't ever seem to describe "God" in a way that is not paradoxical or otherwise impossible.

[Muira]

I'm probably far more idealistic than most people, but I think I appreciate that the practical reality is that some people will always need to be locked up for the safety of society. But torturing others just turns you into a monster.

Well I mean there isn't anything wrong about being idealistic, just this world doesn't work the way we all want it too. Yes, torturing others does make one a monster and gain trauma, perhaps sadistic tendencies. That's why most executions are done by machine, or something indirect, even shoot outs(where one has the real bullet).

It's an ugly job, but sometimes it's easy for anyone to kill if they see a justified reason.

However, to be merciful to the guilty is to be cruel to the innocent.

[Muira]

From what I can tell, there's some disagreement about the label attached to your god which you see as identical to the Jewish one: which seems very trivial to me, when religious people can't ever seem to describe "God" in a way that is not paradoxical or otherwise impossible.

Yeah, but it doesn't change the fact that they all mean the same thing, thus there is nothing wrong with it. It's a tomato tomato thing.

[Enters Laughing]

Well I mean there isn't anything wrong about being idealistic, just this world doesn't work the way we all want it too. Yes, torturing others does make one a monster and gain trauma, perhaps sadistic tendencies. That's why most executions are done by machine, or something indirect, even shoot outs(where one has the real bullet).

It's an ugly job, but sometimes it's easy for anyone to kill if they see a justified reason.

However, to be merciful to the guilty is to be cruel to the innocent.

You believe in a god who is responsible for all actions in the universe, yet you don't think that this god should be tortured for allowing suffering.

I don't believe that punishment acts a deterrent, and as someone who is inclined to disbelieve in the existence of free will, punishing others seems immoral. Punishing people who are not ultimately responsible for their actions is cruel. But that probably has only a minor bearing on my views: that rehabilitating criminals as far as possible is not only cheaper than punishing them, it also reduces crime. Being savage to criminals would be cruel to future victims of the brutal society you helped to create.

[Enters Laughing]

Yeah, but it doesn't change the fact that they all mean the same thing, thus there is nothing wrong with it. It's a tomato tomato thing.

Really? I've been in discussion with many religious people over the years, and not a single one has ever been able to describe "God" in a tangible way that is not paradoxical or otherwise impossible, and which doesn't involve applying the label "God" to something I already know by another name.

[Kwame Kilpatrick]

Well that makes sense, I can understand God being called the Father(In a sense that we are all God's children) or Holy spirit, but how can God be the son?

There are so many layers and angles this question can be answered, but I'll be brief and use some concrete examples...

Man has a body. He has a soul. He has a spirit.

The body gives man world-consciousness.
The soul gives man self-consciousness.
The spirit gives man God-consciousness

God also has a body: Jesus Christ
God also has a soul: The Father
God also has a spirit: The Holy Spirit

Now to illustrate this I'll use an example:

Prayer.

Prayer comes in mightily because it uses this Godhead.

When you pray, you are addressing the Father. That's why we say, "Heavenly Father,"

The name we close the prayer is to "the Son."

And one who carries the channel of the prayer is the "Holy Spirit."

In Romans 8:26-27, it says,

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

(So according to these verses, the Holy Spirit is the one who becomes the channel and Jesus Christ (the SON) is the "intercessor," or the who one who carries what the SPIRIT delivers to Him, and then addresses it to the FATHER)

Now, to break this down even further:

1. You have the HOLY SPIRIT inside of a born-again believer,

2. Now, because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross at calvary, the SON became the ULTIMATE intercessor between Man and God, closing the gap between them, you can see the SON almost like a BRIDGE between man and God.

3. Now the SON gets that message from the prayer and delivers it to the FATHER, who will answer it if it's in accordance to His will.

Thinking about it another way,

Although God is love, God is also a CONSUMING FIRE, as Hebrews 12:29 says,

“For our God is
a consuming fire.”

Contrary to popular belief, He's not all about love. He actually hates and despises all sinners in this forum. Everyone here disgusts Him and His fire.

You can view this fire (and therefore HELL) almost as an extension of God.... and the only reason believers won't BURN IN HELL after death is because the ultimate intercessor, the SON, took the burning for us on the cross, paving the way to the Father.

Do you know why they call Jesus, "Jesus of Nazareth" even though he was born in Bethlehem???

When Jesus, the SON, manifested Himself in the FLESH to the WORLD, He became the ultimate NAZARITE or HIGH PRIEST. (Numbers 6)

As some of us know, those Levitical priests also acted as INTERCESSORS, making sure the people were "Holy" and "Righteous" before the Lord, as Jesus' BLOOD shed on the cross, served as an "atonement" to make humanity righteous ("redeemed") before the Father.

Have you ever spoken to someone who hasn't taken a shower for weeks (like someone homeless???)

Do you remember how difficult it was to concentrate on the conversation because of that STENCH....

God the Father is pure Holiness and he can't tolerate an OUNCE of our dirty sins in His presence... (Nevermind the fact that we'd instantly die in God's presence)

God the SON washes our sins away, so we are clean and as white as snow...

...That way, God the Father can finally

"hear and answer our prayers"

[Muira]

Indeed, and why does "God" care about consensual sexual relationships between mortals if it is supposed to be all-powerful?

It's more than sexual relations, is more about obedience and preventing consequences of acting carelessly. God rather made life on earth to give us a chance to choose our own fate in the after life.

[Enters Laughing]

It's more than sexual relations, is more about obedience and preventing consequences of acting carelessly. God rather made life on earth to give us a chance to choose our own fate in the after life.

If the Muslim "God" cared about such a reason, it would have prevented Muhammad and his followers from having multiple wives and sex slaves.

Why is having a chance to choose a good vs. bad fate better than simply giving us a good fate?

Islamic scripture is so poor at telling us key details about life on this planet without getting them wrong that I'm hardly going to treat it as a reliable source for what happens in an alleged afterlife. It's a religion made in the Iron Age.

[Muira]

You believe in a god who is responsible for all actions in the universe, yet you don't think that this god should be tortured for allowing suffering.

I don't believe that punishment acts a deterrent, and as someone who is inclined to disbelieve in the existence of free will, punishing others seems immoral. Punishing people who are not ultimately responsible for their actions is cruel. But that probably has only a minor bearing on my views: that rehabilitating criminals as far as possible is not only cheaper than punishing them, it also reduces crime. Being savage to criminals would be cruel to future victims of the brutal society you helped to create.

God created us, then gave us free will. So take responsibility. Still life is about surviving, in which causes conflict. However, God shares rules, aka quran, bible, Torah to help maintain order. Those who act against the rules and exploit, cheat, steal, rape, etc, are ought to be punished.

Life is created to test OUR integrity as free willed beings. Punishing others may not look pretty, but consequences are the only way for most people to behave.

If there were no consequences, then people would go around doing whatever they wanted. People who have gone through rehabilitation still can resort back to a life of crime still.

Even still, suffering in life makes us see the true consequences of our actions and develop more empathy for victims. Suffering is a part of life itself, as suffering can be attachment.

[Muira]

If nothing can be created or destroyed, then that's the answer. Everything must be eternal.

But that's probably falsifiable. I don't think "God" offers an answer, because it doesn't explain where "God" comes from, it merely asserts (it treats God as a brute fact rather than the universe\reality, which is arguably what scientists do.

Muhammad according to Islamic accounts believe that thunder is the result of angry angels. Superstitious try to rationalise what they can't explain through observation.

Supposedly, when people have near death experiences, they tend to have culture-specific experiences. For example, in Japan, they imagine themselves in a Zen-like garden, whereas Christians and Muslims might imagine Heaven.

However, how can atoms exist if there was no way it was created?

Muhammad didn't say that. Angels do not have free will, but are servants of god.

People still can experience or see things that can be away from cultural experiences, there is no widely agreed objective evidence against or for "demons."
So why judge when one has no insight, or didn't seek to see things for themselves.

[Enters Laughing]

God created us, then gave us free will. So take responsibility. Still life is about surviving, in which causes conflict. However, God shares rules, aka quran, bible, Torah to help maintain order. Those who act against the rules and exploit, cheat, steal, rape, etc, are ought to be punished.

Life is created to test OUR integrity as free willed beings. Punishing others may not look pretty, but consequences are the only way for most people to behave.

If there were no consequences, then people would go around doing whatever they wanted. People who have gone through rehabilitation still can resort back to a life of crime still.

Even still, suffering in life makes us see the true consequences of our actions and develop more empathy for victims. Suffering is a part of life itself, as suffering can be attachment.

It seems to me from the history of the Arabs is that they waged war on their enemies, starting off as nomads, and killed, appropriated property, and enslaved and subdued them, and this wasn't considered murder, theft, or rape by the Arabs because they didn't consider these actions as crimes. It seems to me that in the story of Muhammad (who I don't believe existed), he did essentially do whatever he wanted, and created whatever laws he wanted. It's like if a king defines murder as "unlawful killing" (which is the common definition), but gets away with killing thousands of people because it isn't considered unlawful.

Personally, I think most people act decently towards others for altruistic reasons, and often fail out of weakness. I'd like to think the proportion of people who are irredeemably malicious is small.

Crime rates in places like western Europe and Japan are just about the lowest in the world without the need for violent punishments, and we're living in arguably the most peaceful time in history. It wasn't religion that caused this, and don't think it was fear of punishment.

[Muira]

If the Muslim "God" cared about such a reason, it would have prevented Muhammad and his followers from having multiple wives and sex slaves.

Why is having a chance to choose a good vs. bad fate better than simply giving us a good fate?

Islamic scripture is so poor at telling us key details about life on this planet without getting them wrong that I'm hardly going to treat it as a reliable source for what happens in an alleged afterlife. It's a religion made in the Iron Age.

Sex Slaves are haram, sex is only permitted between a married couple, which means the women who married their captives would have married them willfully or it was the best choice for survival in the moment.

Islam allows, but doesn't encourage polygamy.

Sometimes warfare causes men to be outnumbered by women, thus there usually tends to be a sex imbalance.

To choose to be good, you get a good after life. It encouraged people to act less barbaric.

Those who feared god, would stop exploiting others for money as they don't want a bad afterlife.

Why sin in this life, when you can do whatever you want in the after life?

If I withhold my homosexuality, I could be as gay as I want in heaven.

If you mention the adultery part, the quran only talks about 100 lashes for adultery, not stoning. That is cultural.

[Enters Laughing]

However, how can atoms exist if there was no way it was created?

Muhammad didn't say that. Angels do not have free will, but are servants of god.

People still can experience or see things that can be away from cultural experiences, there is no widely agreed objective evidence against or for "demons."
So why judge when one has no insight, or didn't seek to see things for themselves.

If things are eternal, by definition, they exist for eternity. There's no need for a "How?". But this is probably an academic question, as I doubt it's possibly to prove something is eternal, just like it's probably impossible for a being to know it's all-knowing.

Some hadith do say that Muhammad believed thunder was caused by angels.

[Muira]

It seems to me from the history of the Arabs is that they waged war on their enemies, starting off as nomads, and killed, appropriated property, and enslaved and subdued them, and this wasn't considered murder, theft, or rape by the Arabs because they didn't consider these actions as crimes. It seems to me that in the story of Muhammad (who I don't believe existed), he did essentially do whatever he wanted, and created whatever laws he wanted. It's like if a king defines murder as "unlawful killing" (which is the common definition), but gets away with killing thousands of people because it isn't considered unlawful.

Personally, I think most people act decently towards others for altruistic reasons, and often fail out of weakness. I'd like to think the proportion of people who are irredeemably malicious is small.

Crime rates in places like western Europe and Japan are just about the lowest in the world without the need for violent punishments, and we're living in arguably the most peaceful time in history. It wasn't religion that caused this, and don't think it was fear of punishment.

Muhammad strayed away from sin or tried too from what us muslims believe, however he married many women whom were poor widows or needed someone to rely on. If you talk about Aisha, people argue about whether she was 19 or 9. Again, it was only around 100 years ago when age consent increased in age.

After the Guy died, many people would propagate religion and use it as a justification for their actions, which makes them liars and sinners.

Most people only act altruistic when they have their needs taken care of, even still the percentage of agreeable people is lower because it isn't the best trait for survival.

As a kid, I always felt guilty for seeing unfortunate people. I gave away a lot of my money as a kid, trying my best to make sure everyone was happy, but when I needed help no one cared. Not even those who I have helped. The same thing goes for me Today.

The environment is directly tied to agreeable levels and behavior among people. And most people are poor, and scared in life. Evil people prey on vulnerable people, those people become traumatized, than go against order, then make more evil people. Not a lot of people break the cycle of evil unless sadly.

[Muira]

If things are eternal, by definition, they exist for eternity. There's no need for a "How?". But this is probably an academic question, as I doubt it's possibly to prove something is eternal, just like it's probably impossible for a being to know it's all-knowing.

Some hadith do say that Muhammad believed thunder was caused by angels.

Stop relying on hadiths, what does the quran say?
Or what does your gut say?
Hadiths are written by all types of imans, even fakes. Be careful about your sources.

[Squirrel]

@Subteigh , usually I don't participate in religious discussions, especially if they are long, but the amount of distortion of interpretations and misinterpretation of verses on the page you gave me prompted me to write all this because it is my duty as a Muslim to correct mistakes

I will leave the discussion of Hadith for another time ( of course , that's if you're still interested in hearing it , otherwise , I won't discuss them because it requires more work than searching for the interpretation of the Quranic verses )

I am an Arab, so I probably have more access to interpretations and I don't know if they are all translated into English or not, my sources are the various interpretations of the Qur'an by most famous Quran interpreters , I have summarized them in a few sentences since they're so long , without omitting anything essential
I used personal logic in the first argument only

Between [] is what the blogger interpreted as evidence of Muslims lying

________________________

[ Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. ]

Yes, this is true, but it is a very very special rule that is intended for a specific situation: to pose a threat to one's life
It's not a general one, you can't consider it general and ignore texts that refer to the general rule

ex :
X , Y , Z are sides of the triangle

In a normal triangle, the rule is
x + y > Z
In a degenerate triangle, the rule is x + y = z

A degenerate triangle is a very special case of a triangle, you cannot apply its rule to any triangle you see

---------------------

And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.



This verse is talking to belligerent polytheists who betrayed the covenants with the Muslims and declares innocence from covenants with them because they betrayed it in the first place, not all the polytheists , read the next verse:
Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun

To understand the group of verses in this surah, I advise you to read about sword verse

-----------------
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return
[This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.]


This is not the interpretation of the verse , the meaning of this verse is that Muslims shouldn't seek help from participants in issues that concern Muslims, and that they shouldn't help them in any matters that harm Muslims (espionage, for example) , as for normal dealings such as trade, friendship and human dealings which don't harm Muslims, they are not intended by this verse

-------------------------------
Allah has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And Allah is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise.


The verse talks about those who forbid something lawful for themselves by swearing (I swear I won't...) , such as someone who forbids himself to eat apples or visit a friend, for example, etc. The addition of “o men” here is correct If we are talking about the prohibition of sexual intercourse , but the meaning is broader than that , as mentioned in the interpretations.

As for Yousef Ali ( aka Abdullah Yousef Ali , I searched for him on the Internet since I hadn't ever heard of him before) I didn't see his interpretation of the verse in any other interpretations , but I won't judge him negativly because I put the possibility that the owner of the blog took from his interpretation what corresponds to the idea of ​​lying and ignored the rest

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[Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.]

Back to the first argument, same thing applies here, this is a special rule to save his life

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Allah will not call you to account for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will call you to account for that which your hearts have earned. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most-Forbearing.


What is meant here is when a person swears without awareness of what he is saying (a common expression in Arabic language: I swear to God - complete what you want to say -) God is not held accountable for saying it unconsciously in speech
However, when someone deliberately swears by God, there will be accountability , For example, if a person makes something halal forbidden for himself by oath, then he has to abide by this oath and if he does it without having retracted it by the required atonement , he will be held accountable, etc.
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[Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which means 'cunning,' 'guile' and 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21) ]



What is meant is that God thwarts the plans of the polytheists who plot and plan to harm, in the case of the Prophet Jesus, they originally planned to crucify Jesus, but God will not allow them to do so , God raised Jesus to the sky and replaced him on earth with another person

In any case, saying that if God deceives the cunning, then Muslims also don't mind deceiving is very stupid and indicates that the person who wrote what is in the blog doesn't know anything about the Islamic religion (This should be pretty obvious after all I've written) :

{ لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ } That is, none of His creation resembles: Him, nor similar to Him, neither in Essence, nor in His names, nor in His attributes, nor in His actions, because all His names are most beautiful, and His attributes are an attribute of perfection and greatness، And His actions created the great creatures through them without a participant, so there is nothing like Him, due to His uniqueness and unity in perfection in every aspect.

Muslims don't believe that God has a similarity in His actions, attributes, names, etc , what God singled out for Himself is ONLY for God.


____________________________

[Enters Laughing]

God created us, then gave us free will. So take responsibility. Still life is about surviving, in which causes conflict. However, God shares rules, aka quran, bible, Torah to help maintain order. Those who act against the rules and exploit, cheat, steal, rape, etc, are ought to be punished.

Life is created to test OUR integrity as free willed beings. Punishing others may not look pretty, but consequences are the only way for most people to behave.

If there were no consequences, then people would go around doing whatever they wanted. People who have gone through rehabilitation still can resort back to a life of crime still.

Even still, suffering in life makes us see the true consequences of our actions and develop more empathy for victims. Suffering is a part of life itself, as suffering can be attachment.

If I had free will, I'd be able to fly. It's fairly clear I don't have free will.

I asked you before "Shouldn't people do what they think is right, rather than what someone else thinks is right?", now you're telling me to take responsibility... I already try to do what I think is right, rather than what others think is right. If I forced myself to follow a totalitarian ideology that endorsed eternal torture, I'd be failing my principles. The Islamic accounts about Muhammad are full of stories where he cheated, exploited, stole from others (he started out as raider of the caravans of merchants, who he deprived on his lives). He also told his followers that it was permitted to have sex with slaves captured in battle that his followers wanted to sell as mere property (i.e. there was no question of obtaining consent from these slaves, or of marrying them with consent). I don't think Muhammad's life story as described by the Islamic sources was one of noble and pious suffering for a cause greater than himself: it seemed more about sensual pleasure and glorifying himself as a great prophet. He seems to have considered himself the biggest victim, such was the pretext he had for finding enemies.

[Enters Laughing]

Sex Slaves are haram, sex is only permitted between a married couple, which means the women who married their captives would have married them willfully or it was the best choice for survival in the moment.

Islam allows, but doesn't encourage polygamy.

Sometimes warfare causes men to be outnumbered by women, thus there usually tends to be a sex imbalance.

To choose to be good, you get a good after life. It encouraged people to act less barbaric.

Those who feared god, would stop exploiting others for money as they don't want a bad afterlife.

Why sin in this life, when you can do whatever you want in the after life?

If I withhold my homosexuality, I could be as gay as I want in heaven.

If you mention the adultery part, the quran only talks about 100 lashes for adultery, not stoning. That is cultural.

In Sahih Muslim 3371 - Muhammad was asked by his followers if it was acceptable to impregnate slaves that were intended to be sold as mere property: the only reason for the concern was that this might lower the price they might get for the slave. Yeah, that's rape.

In Islam, there is no punishment for rape within marriage: indeed, no such act is recognized as possible. Quran 2:223 says that Muslim men can do whatever they like with their wives.

[Enters Laughing]

Sex Slaves are haram, sex is only permitted between a married couple, which means the women who married their captives would have married them willfully or it was the best choice for survival in the moment.

Islam allows, but doesn't encourage polygamy.

Sometimes warfare causes men to be outnumbered by women, thus there usually tends to be a sex imbalance.

To choose to be good, you get a good after life. It encouraged people to act less barbaric.

Those who feared god, would stop exploiting others for money as they don't want a bad afterlife.

Why sin in this life, when you can do whatever you want in the after life?

If I withhold my homosexuality, I could be as gay as I want in heaven.

If you mention the adultery part, the quran only talks about 100 lashes for adultery, not stoning. That is cultural.

Why does God allow sin in the first place?

[Metamorph]

Indeed, and why does "God" care about consensual sexual relationships between mortals if it is supposed to be all-powerful?

My impression is God doesn't care, sins are supposed to be things that hurt you. So sin is basically self-harm. God only cares about sins once they affect people who God is looking out for has been my impression.

[Metamorph]

If I had free will, I'd be able to fly. It's fairly clear I don't have free will.

This is one of the most common miraculous things reported by people such as yogis, saints, and monastics, though. If people in religions think they have free will, in many cases it might exactly be because they at least think they can fly.

[Enters Laughing]

@Subteigh , usually I don't participate in religious discussions, especially if they are long, but the amount of distortion of interpretations and misinterpretation of verses on the page you gave me prompted me to write all this because it is my duty as a Muslim to correct mistakes

I will leave the discussion of Hadith for another time ( of course , that's if you're still interested in hearing it , otherwise , I won't discuss them because it requires more work than searching for the interpretation of the Quranic verses )

I am an Arab, so I probably have more access to interpretations and I don't know if they are all translated into English or not, my sources are the various interpretations of the Qur'an by most famous Quran interpreters , I have summarized them in a few sentences since they're so long , without omitting anything essential
I used personal logic in the first argument only

Between [] is what the blogger interpreted as evidence of Muslims lying

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[ Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. ]

Yes, this is true, but it is a very very special rule that is intended for a specific situation: to pose a threat to one's life
It's not a general one, you can't consider it general and ignore texts that refer to the general rule

Not true, the hadith (Sahih Muslim 32:6303) say that Muslims are allowed to lie within marriage, hardly a life and death situation. Also, in Sahih Bukhari 50:369, Muhammad permits lying in order to be able to murder a poet. Again, hardly a life and death situation.

[Enters Laughing]

Muslims don't believe that God has a similarity in His actions, attributes, names, etc , what God singled out for Himself is ONLY for God.


____________________________

The video I linked earlier shows a significant number (40%) of names given to Allah were also given to Muhammad. For example, they were both called "matin" or "al-matin" = the firm; "rasheed" or "ar-rashid" = the guide.

https://youtu.be/_wlHVvfdqTg?t=1621

[Enters Laughing]

My impression is God doesn't care, sins are supposed to be things that hurt you. So sin is basically self-harm. God only cares about sins once they affect people who God is looking out for has been my impression.

I get this impression, but only because it has the impression of something that doesn't even exist.

[Squirrel]

It wasn't readily apparent to me.

The Qur'an has instances where it permits lying too, if you are going to have a "Qur'an only" approach, which I only tend to see amongst some Muslims when debating non-Muslims.

I follow the Quran and Hadith together not just the Quran, but what you don't know and take into account is that the hadith needs more research: is it a weak or strong hadith? and it's needed to verify and know every person who narrated the hadith (Muslims invented a science just for this , they look for each person who narrated the hadith and judge his eligibility to transmit the hadith based on very strict criteria)

Regarding the legalization of lying in the Qur’an, I replied to you here, the only verse that really talked about lying is the first one, while the rest have been misinterpreted.

[Squirrel]

Not true, the hadith (Sahih Muslim 32:6303) say that Muslims are allowed to lie within marriage, hardly a life and death situation. Also, in Sahih Bukhari 50:369, Muhammad permits lying in order to be able to murder a poet. Again, hardly a life and death situation.

I mentioned to you that I'll talk about hadiths later because they require more work due to the need to verify the sanad and the matin and so on, in addition to explaining the hadith, etc., I responded to the arguments that speak of the Qur’an only

[Muira]

In Sahih Muslim 3371 - Muhammad was asked by his followers if it was acceptable to impregnate slaves that were intended to be sold as mere property: the only reason for the concern was that this might lower the price they might get for the slave. Yeah, that's rape.

In Islam, there is no punishment for rape within marriage: indeed, no such act is recognized as possible. Quran 2:223 says that Muslim men can do whatever they like with their wives.

Sex slavery = Concubinage

Concubinage is haram, a master must free her and than marry her with her will in order to have sex with her. Check out Surah 4:22

Even still, a man must go through a list of requirements in order to be allowed to have more than one wife.

Also check this surah out Quran 2:191, Quran 24:33.

I'd respect you more if you relied on the Quran, than the internet and random hadiths.

If the Hadith contradicts the quran, than it was a false one.


Rape is considered traumatizing and harming the wife, thus it counts as harming a woman, thus it is illegal.

A man cannot have sex with his wife if she is bleeding, ill, pregnant, or says no simply because she is repulsed by it. Just as a man is allowed to divorce her, and she can divorce him.

[Muira]

Not true, the hadith (Sahih Muslim 32:6303) say that Muslims are allowed to lie within marriage, hardly a life and death situation. Also, in Sahih Bukhari 50:369, Muhammad permits lying in order to be able to murder a poet. Again, hardly a life and death situation.

Really saying the Hadith is more valid than the quran itself?