We talk about it enough on this forum, so...might as well.
Narcissism
We talk about it enough on this forum, so...might as well.
I hate black and white statements about narcissists, like, "Malignant narcissists are the worst ones." I know of a certain professional who said this. Frankly, I'd take a logical malignant narcissist over an emotion-driven covert narcissist any day. Dealing with any narcissist that bases everything on their feelings is like tossing a coin into the air and seeing which way it falls. You never know what you're going to end up with. They're much more unstable.
I don’t think I run into them (narcissists) often but recently I butted heads with a bully (not just bully-like) who is also sexist. He seems to lack compassion or ever have doubts about his conduct. That’s the closest I’ve come. I’ve also been treated badly by another man, who I was sort of trapped with. I think this person had character flaws rather than being a bad person. But he did act a bit like a narc around me.
I find myself wondering what type of person marries these people (the first one anyway).
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-22-2023 at 09:24 AM.
It's one of the words those words, resurrected from its ashes by the zeitgeist. It also has been deprived from any positive meaning as if a healthy self-esteem didn't require a healthy dose of narcissism, as if those two aspects were disconnect in our psyche. I'm amazed to see the ease with which people use it, almost like an insult. "That person manipulated me" therefore "narcissist"; "that person wasn't good to me" therefore "narcissist" ; "that person rejected me" therefore "narcissist" etc.. People confuse traits with psychological construct and they don't care about the consequences. NPD everywhere now, custom NPD, you can't escape the NPD !! It's as overdiagnosed as psoriasis ! Everyone is a mental health pro now ! And there are so many women in particular who fall in that kind of projected barnum effect "Oh - My - God !! that's totally him !! He's a narcissist !".
I think we have to be careful with this word because it can be devastating to throw it at a person is not a narcissist and doesn't have NPD in any way shape or form. Narcissist is one of those "ist" and "ism" of the zeitgeist coming from people who can't help but categorize others and lock them in a psychological prison. I think that the war against phallocracy has created extreme faction of which the only purpose is to hate men or despise those who are "deconstructed", emasculated and thus devoid of their mahood. Those amazones are worse than narcissists because unlike them their actions is organized and they move in herds.
A definition from Time magazine today
Narcissistic personality disorder is a clinical diagnosis that can involve characteristics such as an exaggerated sense of talent and self-importance; fantasies of power and beauty; a tendency to take advantage of others; and a deep need for attention and admiration. It can also manifest as an inability to cope with criticism, and it’s most commonly diagnosed in men.
Originally Posted by godslave
She explains the terminology discrepancy very well.
She also explains we are in a narcissism epidemic, and she explains why.
As much as I like her (she so reminds me my ex ! and... myself to a certain degree), I think she kinda (involuntarily) contributed to the Narcissism paranoia in social media I talked about because she is very successful and people like her and listen to her expertise etc...(She's also an influencer after all) The problem is that people in social media don't necessarily have the competence to diagnose people and any a.. ho.. can be tagged as Narcissist in the internet. What Dr. Ramani is saying is obviously true and yes she explain things well I really like her energy.
I agree with you on this, but I also see the way things are with narcissism on social media as kind of...A) a phase, and B) inevitable collateral damage. The problem is, there are a bunch of idiots in this world, and no matter how well you explain things (which Ramani does very well), there is always going to be a portion of society that misinterprets, misunderstands, misapplies, etc. I mean, the same thing happened with Feminism, the same thing happened with just about every movement ever that has actually been made during efforts to raise awareness or to push back against something. So, I guess, I just ignore the dummies and stick with what the true message is.As much as I like her (she so reminds me my ex ! and... myself to a certain degree), I think she kinda (involuntarily) contributed to the Narcissism paranoia in social media I talked about because she is very successful and people like her and listen to her expertise etc...(She's also an influencer after all
For what it's worth, I've constantly spoken out against what people abusing the term or spreading misinformation were sharing. It almost seemed like a full time job.
Where does healthy self-love stop and narcissism starts? Are narcissism and altruism mutually exclusive? Does it have a cure? What is the cause? So many questions..
Then, the angel asked her what her name was. She said: "I have none"
Dunno...but I'd rather not be close enough to the line between them to need to know, either.
No cure as of yet.
I'll explain what I know of the causes when I'm less sleepy.
Yeah I mean the quote I posted kinda does describe the bully sexist..I’ve said stuff like that about him before. I think it’d need to be a bit worse for npd. But i would not wanna be his child, at all, esp a girl.
My dad is a misogynistic/sexist malignant narcissist. Being a malignant narcissist, he pretty much falls somewhere between sociopath and grandiose narcissist. He has many, many traits of sociopathy/psychopathy, as malignant narcissists do. Violent fits of rage including death threats as coercion, extremely controlling and domineering, living a parasitic lifestyle, seeing his children as an extension of himself and controlling them to be like him, everything - he's textbook. You couldn't convince me he doesn't meet diagnostic criteria for NPD. I've also seen him experience actual suffering from it (like, break down crying, many times), but he doesn't understand that the narcissism is why he's suffering. Same with my mother, a covert vulnerable narcissist - you couldn't convince me she doesn't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD. Professionals I talk to basically confirm it in both of them as well, once I get into discussing their traits/behaviors/motives/etc. They tend to doubt me and dismiss my claim that both of my parents are narcissists initially, thinking I'm probably just some VeryWellMinds learner who is overusing the term. Once they actually listen long enough to hear how much I know about narcissists, how much of it I've experienced firsthand, and that my parents genuinely are well described by it, they're kind of taken aback and they finally see and hear me, that I actually have lived through that and gone through that shit. I've studied the ins-and outs, and when I first discovered the concept of narcissism, I cried tears of joy and binged on any information I could get my hands on, because it was like...I wasn't alone, someone finally understood everything, and there was terminology that I could use to describe all of those things I'd been seeing and going through all alone all my life. I was 27 at that time. As for what I didn't see before discovering narcissism, it helped me to have some of the insights and knowledge that I needed in order to heal.
I used to mistake myself for transgender FtM a few years ago, but I knew I was traumatized also, so I promised myself I wouldn't make any permanent changes (hormones, surgeries, legal name, whatever) until I was 100% treated for my traumas and disorders in therapy. Well, I'm glad I made that decision, since as it turns out, I was only thinking I was trans because of my father's misogyny/sexism. It was an unconscious thing. I had been living as an extension of my dad for so long, just to try to be loved by someone and because I over-empathized and understood his views a little too well. It was also just...all I was raised on, I didn't know anything else, because I'd been kept in isolation by my parents while I was growing up. My dad has a ton of charm and charisma, and he has a way of appearing to be very loving...and, of course, as the offspring of two narcissists and the sibling of someone toxic who was sexually abusive when I was a kid, I always had a gaping hole in my heart that desperately needed to be loved. I was also more vulnerable to his logical manipulation than my mother's emotional manipulation - I was better at seeing through the emotional manipulation than the logical. I lived as an extension of him, which drove me to be "more like (his ideas about) men" and "less like (his ideas about) women." I identified with "(his ideas about) men" more than "(his ideas about) women" for a while. I also associated women with emotional realm things, and I'd always been raised since I was little with the unconscious and conscious messages that emotions were bad, feeling things was unsafe, and logic was king.
It fucked me up pretty good for a while, but I healed pretty easily once I knew how to (still healing in some ways, though). In the end, I'm thankful for every experience I've had, as it made me who I am (the person who emerged out from under who I thought I had to be, not the extension of the narcissists) and equipped me with some wisdom on these matters that I can use to help other victims. My battles in life have filled me with a deep sense of purpose, and while I do believe my baseline personality was already the following ways to an extent, I probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as headstrong, full of vitality/willpower, or as persevering as I had to become to survive it all, had I never been through it.
Every curse has its gift side, and every gift has its curse side. Nothing in life is perfect, but it's not all bad, either.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 03-23-2023 at 05:57 PM.
Remember it's a mental illness. Has many mechanisms by which it occurs, though.
I think the only way to cope for the outsiders who are stuck being close is to remember that there is no-self. Thus all beliefs in a self being the ultimate are false. In this way you can pity your parents instead of being pulled into their hellscape.
Tough stuff. Narcissism has ruined several close friends who must deal with it from their own people.
There's a little bit of a mix-bag. It's pretty complicated when you're their kid. I don't take the shit personally, I recognize it's an illness, and I feel sorry for them in many ways. I know that they didn't choose it, and it's something that developed in them between 18 months and 2 years of age (that's when narcissism in general forms). I know there is less grey matter in the empathy centers of their brains. At the same time, as their (adult-)kid, it hurts in a "void in my heart" kind of way, and it also is something inseparable from deeply personal feelings, thoughts, needs, that every person has since childhood, not from psychological needs only, but even from biological ones.
For instance, when my mother recently visited, she wanted to spend time with me by watching something with me. I dodged it by saying I was writing to get my certification for counseling (I was very deliberate in choosing that as my excuse, I had to use something SHE values more, in order to use it as an excuse to escape). It wouldn't make sense for me to do that, from anyone else's point of view. It's pretty normal. However, I know my mother, and I know exactly how she is. She wants to watch not just anything, but only what she is interested in. If I say I'm not interested and let's watch something else, she doesn't want to do that. "Okay, that's not necessarily narcissism, just selfish" right?--but here's where the dynamics show narcissism: instead of accepting I dislike it, or I'm not interested, she then commences with pressuring and persuading me to like it. She starts going through all different parts of it, demanding that I watch, in order to change my mind. If I remain disinterested, she starts manipulatively guilt-tripping me and making herself into a victim with the whole "wanting to spend time with you" shit at the same time, and she starts vilifying me for simply having different tastes or preferences or interests than she does. She switches into devaluing mode, where she starts making me out to be a shit daughter. Here's what's really happening: she's trying to mold me into an extension of herself and erase my individuality, autonomy, my own personality and tastes and preferences. She's trying to make me be like her, and if I don't meet that expectation of being less like me and more like what she wants me to be like (to reflect her own values, preferences, etc.), AKA if I don't give her the narcissistic supply she's going for, I'm suddenly a devalued scapegoat rather than golden child representing the image she wants me to reflect for her. Could I pacify her? Sure, I could play along, but at what cost? Even if I could live with myself going along and pretending like that (which I can't), it's never enough for the narcissist. They'll always want more, and more, and more.
I truly believe that the lyrics in many of Five Finger Death Punch's songs reveal that whoever the author of them is, has experienced narcissism. The lyrics are way too accurate reflections of how narcissists make their victims feel.
It's always do this, do that
Everything they want to
I don't wanna live that way (No!)
Every chance they get they're always
Pushing me away
It's never enough, no it's never enough
No matter what I say
It's never enough, no it's never enough
I'll never be what you want me to be
It's never enough, no it's never enough
No matter what I say
It's never enough, no it's never enough
I'll never be what you want me to be
I'm done!
In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete
Drawn only to be washed away
For the time that I've been given
I am what I am
I'd rather hate you for everything you are
Than ever love you for something you are not
I'd rather you hate me for everything I am
Than have you love me for something that I can't
Everyone's deranged
I'm just so fucked up and I'm never gonna change
I lay it all to waste
They're always say this say that
Nothing that you want to
I don't wanna live that way (No)
Every chance they get they're always
Shoving me aside
It's never enough, it's never enough
No matter what I say
It's never enough, no it's never enough
No matter who I try to be
It's never enough, no, it's never enough
No matter how I try to change
It's never enough, never, never enough
I'll never be what you want me to be
My comments on the bolded: in narcissistic victims, seeing the cold, hard, straightforward, direct truths, is one of their ultimate defenses. It protects them, so a lot of times they will develop the ability to face even the darkest truths. It's like a flower growing out of a manure pile. That develops because not acknowledging the truths makes you vulnerable to being caught up in their lies and then victimized and hurt by them. Eg: when my mom "helped me" fix my car recently, I knew not to allow myself to feel grateful for her help. I had to see it wasn't for me, it wasn't about me: I attracted her to the idea of doing it because I basically explained my situation in a way that made her see my car being broken down as the one step between myself and my success. She wants her daughter to be successful, because it reflects well on her. It's attractive to her because it feeds her with narcissistic supply: validation, "I'm a good mother," "my daughter is successful because of how I raised her" "she is successful because I helped her" she's so insecure underneath it all, that she went to the lengths of flying out on a plane to my state and then spending $3,000 to fix my car. I've appealed to her from the angle of caring about me so many times, and she was just like "I don't worry about you or your safety while you're homeless." She gave 0 fucks. "Can I have $15 to eat, Mom?" "Go ask someone else." The woman is fucking loaded, it'd have been nothing to her. I've seen enough examples of her actions to know she cares nothing for me. I knew to protect myself via the truth: she does not love me, she does not care about me, that isn't suddenly changing now, and it's not going to. If I allowed myself to be grateful for helping me, I'd have to think it had anything to do with me or my well-being; and if I ever fall for that lie, I'm suddenly vulnerable to all of the gaslighting and the manipulation: "maybe she's really not so bad," "maybe it was just me seeing things wrong" "maybe she does care" and I know based on extrapolation from COUNTLESS experiences that never ends well for me, it only results in her eventually showing that flip side of herself, those claws come out when all the doors are shut and no one else is around to see her true treatment of me. Cold, hard truth is a shield for narcissist victims.
Anyway, there is no "me" in that relationship, which if I'm understanding you correctly, is exactly what you were saying in your post. I will never be known by them - never seen, never heard, never understood, for who and how I am (thus those core wounds I have of being unseen/unheard, and why I now set that as a firm boundary in my relationships in my adulthood). I am basically an orphan, just not through physical estrangement. That cutting pain is always going to be there, no matter what, as there is nothing I can do to just kill those parts of me that yearn for loving parents. So, regardless of whether I understand it as an illness, there will still be a lot of anger, pain, and other personal feelings associated with their narcissism.
Very sad.
To elaborate:
These "core wounds" are typical in narcissist's victims. It impacts their attachment style. Unlike narcissism, unhealthy attachment styles ARE able to develop in adults, so this will often ring true even if someone has experienced a narcissistic relationship after they were adults.
((Personally, my reaction was never, "why bother speaking up," and instead, it was, "I WILL be seen, I WILL be heard, YOU WILL NOT drown me out," and I have had to do some work on myself to not get so defensive or overreact so much with even the minor ways this wound can be touched/triggered. I reacted to childhood feelings of powerlessness by always overpowering and controlling things, and becoming fiercely independent (in control) so my own needs will be met.))
Always a flip side, if you don't make excuses for things and adopt/accept a victim mindset.
(As for that patience part, not so much online, but IRL I'm a fucking boulder. Good luck shaking me.)
Makes you more dangerous, honestly.
Insecurity is loud: it flaunts power dynamics, flings them around, uses coercion, etc. Confidence is quiet. You move in the dark and focus on real power, and you only use it when it's necessary, not to feel better about yourself. When you're confident, you don't need power to feel good about yourself. It feels shitty to use power like bullies do, when you are actually a strong person.
Totally there are lessons everywhere. But it still sucks. And some lessons diminish what could have been possible for forever.
Some do, but...if you're resilient, you rise above and aim for something even better than what could've been. You don't let them defeat you. Every mistake is a lesson, and for every time you experience defeat in battle you accept that truth with dignity, you learn from it, and you use what you learned to return to the war even more formidable and going for bigger victories.
I've learned to embrace it. "Challenge me, I get a thrill out of it." I get all fired up and smile. It's a visceral adrenaline rush kind of thing.
In concrete application, that looks something like this:
My dad fucked up my Straight A's, Honors student, 4.0 GPA, by abusing me (I didn't know it was abuse, thus why I put up with it). Couldn't do projects, etc. Got fired from my job because his abuse made me late and I spent all my money helping him, so I didn't have money to fix or replace my car when I needed it, so I relied on him for transportation. Stupid mistake: should've put my own self first, so I could maintain independence and control over my own situation.
On the other hand...I was majoring in psychology. Thing is, everything I experienced since then is about to make me a far better psychologist than I would've ever been with those straight A's and 4.0 GPA and Honors and etc. I learned far more by experiencing the traumas firsthand. It didn't break me. That hellfire I walked through only forged me into someone sharper. Fuck it, make the best of it. Take what I went through and turn it into a weapon against narcissism: equip the victims, teach them, help them heal, and spread awareness. That which tried to destroy me, I will use to destroy the destroyers. Yet, I'll do it not through hatred, but through love: teach people how to prevent narcissism in their children, how to overcome the damages from narcissists, how to avoid narcissistic relationships, etc.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 03-23-2023 at 08:07 PM.
The thing about Dr. Ramani is that she seems like a decent human being (e.g. someone you'd like having as a friend) but her knowledge of Narcissism and other pathologies is so superficial and lacking of insight that it really makes her look pathetic when she goes into pretend-expert mode and blabbers at length about things she knows shit about. There are much better sources to learn about NPD from.
On a related note, there seems to be an influx of self-aware (officially diagnosed) people with NPD creating YouTube channels and making videos about it. Most I've encountered seem legit (as in they are not pretending to have NPD) and there's some useful insight in some of the stuff they share. Random vids from such YouTubers I've encountered:
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
By the way, #1 and #3 above are somewhat relatable to me. Which probably goes to show how personality and pathologies overlap and most psychological traits and tendencies exist on a spectrum. I don't have NPD (or any other PD), but I do have pronounced SPD tendencies and what Vaknin calls narcissistic style. The funniest thing is the number of times I've been told I appear narcissistic and people pointing to a sense of self-importance and grandiosity which I don't really have and could care less about. It seems like different people see a different me, which can be quite amusing. Especially when people who know me more intimately misjudge or mischaracterize me severely.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I've been actually wondering if this could be due to me not giving a rat's ass about how I come across to others 98% of the time, which could manifest in me not having a stable "persona". Whereas people who pay attention to their image would consequently come across as more consistent and act in ways that are more aligned with whatever they are trying to present themselves as.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I actually disagree with this. I think she just tries to make things simple and digestible by the widespread audience she has. I think she keeps it superficial deliberately, in order to help more people understand it and avoid misunderstandings. Most people aren't trying to deep-dive to understand everything about narcissism to become psychology experts, they just want enough to learn about what pertains to their own lives and experiences. They want to learn to heal, overcome, cope, etc. not learn how NPD works thoroughly. The more complex you make it, the fewer people understand. More will misunderstand. As it is, narcissism is complex even in its superficial form. Those who think it's not probably don't understand it very well. As it is, social media is already breeding misinformation and overuse of the term. I think Ramani simplifies things as much as she can so that is minimized.
I also think there is more insight to be gained from her than what meets the eye. When Ramani's explanations are combined with concrete experiences, it tends to tie a lot of your experiences together and make a lot more sense of them. There is a lot left unspoken just clicks together when she teaches those with experiences with narcissism.
Asserting yourself in order to be seen, heard, and understood, for who you genuinely are, isn't the same thing as having an image. If anything, it's an important element involved in forming authentic and deep connections/relationships with other people. How can someone be close to you if they don't even actually know who you are? Not asserting that means you're still just alone, even while you're with others.
Maybe it seems safer not to let people know the real you?
Fe PoLR?
Is that true for everyone? That people appear differently to everyone?
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I was just wondering if the people misjudging him might be bc of the Fe PoLR-ness
personally knew an SLI who also seemed to elicit of misjudgment at times (I didn’t see him that way)
and idk sometimes Fe strong/valuing types can be kinda aggressively demanding about “etiquette” and can take things personally when you didn’t mean it like that/ see you in a negative light
not saying something similar can’t be true for Fi types evaluating Fi-devalued types… just an observation
Perception of traits is highly subjective. It's relative to like/dislike, compatibility, preference.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 03-24-2023 at 01:52 AM.
There's a scene in Valarian that's perfect for demonstrating what I mean. It's right after the beach scene at 0:58.
Every quality he talks himself up with, she turns it around into a negative perspective. Every trait can be flipped around and seen as one way or another. It's all about subjective preference. I suspect that how people perceive things comes, in part, from familiarity. I suspect also that it pertains to our natural way of finding people we are compatible with.
Socionics enthusiasts might say this pertains to Fi.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 03-24-2023 at 02:07 AM.
Well, then I'd say she does a horrible job. Simplifying ≠ improvising by presenting inaccurate information and painting a bad caricature of NPD that bears little to no semblance with reality.
Which is precisely why they should avoid ingesting (mis)information from people like Ramani and go to more credible and useful (re)sources.
- Sam Vaknin does a good job of simplifying Narcissism into digestible chunks of information and uses much better analogies and examples, way more insightful and accurate in general.
- Richard Grannon has a very relatable communication style and is always on point, even when he oversimplifies and generalizes, which he does quite effectively.
- Ross Rosenberg is okay, although I'm not a huge fan of his storytelling and way of delivering information.
- Abdul Saad is another great resource but doesn't promote himself as much on social media.
For the category of people you referred to (most people), I would probably recommend Richard as the best source.
Last edited by Park; 03-26-2023 at 03:50 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Agreed, and I am probably not very good at it. Perhaps that's because I have never had the proclivity to assert myself for the sake of being seen or understood. I usually do it in order to get something done, make a point, achieve an objective, move towards a goal, right a wrong, stuff like that.
Not necessarily.
That is precisely how I feel most of the time, around most people. It used to bother me somewhat in the past, but I've just let it be. It still hurts a little when it happens with people I'm close to, but it is what it is.
For sure. But it's not like I hide something purposefully from people, it just comes naturally to me to keep certain things to myself and not express anything personal unless there is a specific reason or need for it.
Last edited by Park; 03-29-2023 at 01:08 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I don't know. I also have somewhat of a flat/reduced affect. I experience emotions, but I'm not a fan of expressing them in the moment, through words, facial expressions, voice inflection, whatever. I do this through music and other forms of artistic expression.
I think people with strong cognitive empathy get me the best (which ironically is why I sometimes get attracted to narcissists). If you know how I reason about things, what my values/likes/dislikes are, what triggers me, etc., you won't need me to express much overtly to know exactly how I feel or where I stand in a given situation, or at least make a good guess.
Last edited by Park; 03-25-2023 at 09:28 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
that fits with Fi mobilizing - "In the context of extroverted ethics (Fe) as a vulnerable function, it should be emphasized that these types especially value emotional bonds where feelings go unsaid between partners, and are simply understood."I don't know. I also have somewhat of a flat/reduced affect. I experience emotions, but I'm not a fan of expressing them through words, facial expressions, voice inflection, or whatever. I do this through music and other forms of artistic expression.
I can see why you are calling that cognitive empathy...and I supposed it looks/be phrased that way from a Te ego perspective...I do feel like it involves affective empathy in the sense of Fi types 'feeling' something of that subjective, implicit emotional state; essentially affective and cognitive empathy perhaps coming together...in ways that perhaps should for most healthy people
That quote is about something different, but I suppose they are related. Feelings between partners (or people, in general) are different from emotional reactions. The former is more akin to sentiments, things one develops and solidifies over time, while the latter (i.e., the one I was talking about) is about ongoing internal states which are mutable and mostly ephemeral.
Are you implying I used the term incorrectly? I'm pretty sure I know what it means.
For sure. Having emotional (affective) empathy helps relate to people better and not misuse cognitive empathy the way unhealthy people (e.g., pathological narcissists and psychopaths) often do.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I suppose I took your message to mean you prefer unspoken "sentiments" over emotions as you are referring to here, which resonated with that quote about Fi mobilizing.
Not at all, I just thought the process of arriving at that cognitive understanding can - and does in the case of Fi, since Fi and Te are two sides of the same coin, two interconnected 'polarities' - include affective empathy as well.Are you implying I used the term incorrectly? I'm pretty sure I know what it means.
I don't know about NPD in-depth, but these might be interesting:
Looks like he may psychoanalytic
That narcissists might actually be deeply insecure as opposed loving themselves too much, is an inkling I wondered about since I was very young though - I thought others saw it too.
No, I don't prefer one or the other, because I see them as two different things, as I already explained. I was saying I don't express emotions, which makes me puzzling to people. I have much less trouble expressing feelings or sentiments, but I tend to do that in a reserved and somewhat cautious manner.
Let me try to explain what I mean. If something or someone elicits an emotional reaction in me (whether positive or negative), you won't see it on my face or in the way I behave outwardly. I might get extremely excited about something or extremely upset, and it will look more or less the same on the outside. You might perceive a change in my attitude or behavior, but it won't be obvious what triggered it. (That is, unless you upset me and are on the receiving end, LOL.) However, if you ask me and I trust you enough, I might tell you what's going on.
Regarding deeper feelings and sentiments (how I feel about certain people, institutions, situations, deeds, experiences, etc.), I like having one or two people around with whom I can openly share and discuss these things. As far as interpersonal bonds are concerned, I do like to let them develop organically (through interaction) and I don't think there's usually much of a need to verbalize how two people feel about each other, when in the vast majority of cases that's obvious by how they treat and act towards each other.
Okay.
Last edited by Park; 03-26-2023 at 04:54 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Yes, that's right. Frank Yeomans knows his stuff. The "emptiness" he refers to in that first video is also known as the "schizoid core" of the Narcissist.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Yes, I like what Dr. Grande said about Narcissism : " Narcissism is essentially the creation of a False Self to protect an Insecure Self". There is indeed at the core of the NPD and the so called "Narcissist" (non pathological psychological construct ) what Freudians call a narcissistic wound(s) however instead of being "treatable" like some other minor narcissistic wounds, those are so deep and large that they could be considered as a Fault (as in San Andreas Fault). When our body is wounded, we might end up with a scar as a result. Sometimes the scar is discrete and sometimes it is very apparent and ugly, in such case the person wight be ashamed of it and cover it from others sight.
The same goes for NPD at the psychological level, the fault left a scar that the subject unconsciously and almost desperately wants to hide. The core self is wounded, hidden from the light and so deprived it doesn't grow. The Psyche of the Narcissist is similar to the image of Siamese Twins of which only one developed at the expend of the other, inseparably related by interdependence, the one in the light protecting the one in the dark. In Great Bear Constellation (Ursa Major) there is a Star which is bareilly visible with the naked eye called "Alcor" it's almost hidden by the brighter light of "Mizar", in fact it's a binary Star. Mizar is the Narcissist and Alcor is the insecure part of itself.
Note : It is said that a narcissist can't be treated, I wouldn't be so categorical. In the Internet there is this idea that all you can do to help a narcissist is get away from him/her i.e. you can't help him or her and that's just the way it is. That assumption has made its way in the collective unconscious in the light of the Zeitgeist and post "Me too" movement. I've noticed that this kind of defeatism is unique in mental health pros of the internet sphere (from what I've seen) and rather non deontological imho.
Note 2 : I don't know what I'm talking about !
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