Narcissism

[lavos]

Maybe making them regress to the "proto-self" before the narcissistic wound, and then having them re-build their personality from that point. Not sure if it's doable. Any ideas?

[godslave]

Maybe making them regress to the "proto-self" before the narcissistic wound, and then having them re-build their personality from that point. Not sure if it's doable. Any ideas?

I'm afraid that one would have to clone them ! The idea is interesting, it might work in a fiction !

[lavos]

I'm afraid that one would have to clone them ! The idea is interesting, it might work in a fiction !

So let them rot and cause damage?

Regression could be achieved with some sort of therapy (probably). Dunno since I'm not a psych.

[godslave]

So let them rot and cause damage?

Regression could be achieved with some sort of therapy (probably). Dunno since I'm not a psych.

No, of course not. I don't believe that cloning a Narcissist would cure him since the focus would be on the clone education. That was obviously a joke but for some reasons I feel the need to mention that..it was a joke (and to repeat myself !). Now, of course Psychologists and psychiatrists do exist and luckily for us their job is to treat people with psychological and/or mental health issues. That sais, check this out :

[Distance]

There are imaging studies on this cluster B section, with some NPD , mostly BPD, and it indicates brain regions smaller than normal and the processes are are un- regulated, all anatomical in structure aberrations.

In essence it's brain damage like autism. If you can train an Aspie to respond to body language and have actual real time 'theory of mind', the case would be closed. So far it cannot be bridged in a cure.

It is brain damage. Some cases have went away unexpectedly, but it is atypical and rare and unknown why it resolved.

I have a bit of a vested interest in it. In mental illness: 3 schizophrenic relatives, all close in 2nd degree status, 2 Aspies on wife's side, 1 shizotypal now late, married my cousin and ASPD.

Society is full of the walking wounded.

[lavos]

No, of course not. I don't believe that cloning a Narcissist would cure him since the focus would be on the clone education. That was obviously a joke but for some reasons I feel the need to mention that..it was a joke (and to repeat myself !). Now, of course Psychologists and psychiatrists do exist and luckily for us their job is to treat people with psychological and/or mental health issues.

That's because you're SEI dude. So be a bit more careful when you address me.

Thanks for info.

[CosmicCat]

I think it is worth mentioning that most people don't empathize with the Narcissist, as if it was a lost cause, a demon that has to be ostracized. Even some mental health pro prescribes to flee from the Narcissist for he/she can't be cured. The misandry that became a fashion of the zeitgeist (at least where the light shines the most) doesn't help. The question is why do we allow them to live among us instead of punting them in prison or in a mental institution ? I don't like to hear such defeatism. In fact, there are a lot of therapeutic approaches that can give good results.

According to Roman Catholicism, anybody who's still in temporal existence and has enough neurological function to pray can in theory be saved and earn a high reward in Heaven. What that process of salvation salvation looks like on the other hand....

[godslave]

According to Roman Catholicism, anybody who's still in temporal existence and has enough neurological function to pray can in theory be saved and earn a high reward in Heaven. What that process of salvation salvation looks like on the other hand....

Yes, as much as I don't like redemption arcs when the character has gone beyond redemption (that's kinda subjective), I don't like generalities when it comes to real people. Each individual is a universe and psychology is not an exact science so it's always a case by case situation when it comes to treatments. One treatment might work on a subject and not on another. There is a lot of therapeutic approaches for the therapists to try and see what works best for the patient and that's a good thing obviously.

It is true that sometimes we prefer to delegate the ultimate power of forgiveness to God, for he is the all-merciful and we're not !

[godslave]

That's because you're SEI dude. So be a bit more careful when you address me.

Thanks for info.

Thanks for the typing, sir !

Fair enough ! From now on when I address you, I'll make sure to use emojis and dissipate confusion.

You typed me EII before (which is possible but I feel like it doesn't really click for me so to speak), may I ask you what makes you change your mind ? We were in a semi-duality IR and now you think that we are in a conflict IR, and you tell me to be "a bit more careful" when I address you, that's quite radical.

[lavos]

Thanks for the typing, sir !

Fair enough ! From now on when I address you, I'll make sure to use emojis and dissipate confusion.

You typed me EII before (which is possible but I feel like it doesn't really click for me so to speak), may I ask you what makes you change your mind ? We were in a semi-duality IR and now you think that we are in a conflict IR, and you tell me to be "a bit more careful" when I address you, that's quite radical.

Nothing changed in you. It changed in me. Now please let me be.

[Bethanyclaire]

Yeah this q is bothering me slightly- will my ex boss ever be normal? Did I accidentally help him to be normal even though he was ‘evil’? And that shit is scary. I think with him anyway he can learn to mask his weirdness..more. But I think he’ll always be neurotic and it will probably need an outlet…he’ll be mean to randos. Even if it’s ever so slight and insidiously- still causing damage. I feel there is a lack of peace within him, instead to feel alive is to control.

I think that a badly raised LSE is very likely to develop this disorder- LSEs are quite good at reading people’s energy as well as wanting to be the best, being able to read energy and wanting to control/release anger..it’s kind of a shit person..so a normal or good LSE wouldn’t do this in such an underhand or obvious way- it wouldn’t be their whole personality. I remember working with an LSE girl from a troubled home..and she had that same lack of remorse, I guess

i think my lse boss has an EII wife- and it sounds like she doesn’t work although I know their kid is young. I suspect she is a bit sadisty in personality..

so I suppose a dual partner could deflect their weirdness, and maybe keep them in control a bit and provide them some stability

she stays home and gets money…he goes to work, lives for his work image, gives her money..she tells him he’s a good boy, she feels like she’s keeping him in line..she is able to ignore his weirdness coz EII are good with ignoring reality sometime. She’s probably not nice like him, maybe a bit nicer, and she takes what she can get from him, I wonder do they argue?

the wife is probably a bit ASPDish, not completely..but i could see those types rubbing off each other- the NPD making the ASD feel needed (from v little i've read about ASPD) and the LSE's IEE sidekick who is also a bit sadisty once said he liked the LSE's wife..

[Distance]

ASPD image of the famous scientist, unknown to him, revelatory, and multi pronged soul stirring.

15 minutes.

[timber]

There has to be some way to "repair" them.

Good question and I invite you to try. Be warned. 6 months out in a close relationship might just lead to your own ruin. I speak from experience. For my own dignity and respect and .. love for this person and myself, I will not mention details. All I can say is.. good luck.

[adage]

https://youtu.be/6M1oVMFgO3s
This talks about what narcissists are like from the inside, how they can change if they deem they have a problem, how they can have stable relationships that are fulfilling for both parties, and also what it's like to be around a narcissist who doesn't see how they are hurting closed ones.
A bunch of people talking about their personal experiences, including experts who work with narcissists.
52 minutes tho. There's chapters to select from at least.

[Bethanyclaire]

But can they change that much..if someone is mean by the age of 40, are they gonna change that much? :s

I guess the therapy is the key..the acceptance

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

But can they change that much..if someone is mean by the age of 40, are they gonna change that much? :s

I guess the therapy is the key..the acceptance

No. They won't. @Park's post was completely, 100% spot on.

Most experts agree NPD can't be cured. According to Vaknin, the best you can do is take down all the compensatory mechanisms of the false self and end up with the empty/wounded/schizoid core, which doesn't really cure NPD, it just regulates its manifestations and prevents the impact or some of the side-effects it has on others. This ultimately helps society much more than the it helps the narcissist, i.e. they are back to being the little child that never grew up, except they are able to observe and suppress their need for narcissistic supply, and act in less destructive ways.

Can't find a more recent or relevant video, but he mentions it briefly here: https://youtu.be/S_R1UKezemU?t=645

@Bethanyclaire This is why there is not a cure presently. The empathy area of their brains actually have less grey matter. They're incapable of having enough empathy to care how they're affecting others, which means they lack incentive to actually change their behaviors. They don't feel as though the improvements benefit or serve them, plus they don't care about others enough to care whether it benefits them either, and then it's far easier to just revert to the default settings and fall right back into the maladaptive coping mechanisms of narcissism.

In order to cure narcissism, my guess is that there would need to be some sort of technology that can grow the empathy areas of their brains. I don't think that's the only thing that's needed in order to develop a cure for NPD, but I do think it's one aspect that's vital.

---

EDIT:
By the way, when I say this, I'm not just mindlessly following and regurgitating what the experts on narcissism say; I'm not saying something that I have no substantial or concrete foundations for believing. Ugh, this comes across as though I'm just being insecure and trying to defend my views, but it's not that. I'm actually just struggling to articulate my thoughts in a way that accurately communicates my true point, my real aim. What I'm actually trying to convey is that, based on my own 32 years of close experiences with a few narcissists, I believe there is genuine credibility behind the experts saying it cannot be cured. At least, not until there is some kind of advancement in technology or something. I'm trying to deepen the sense that what they've said is valid and true because it's extremely important for this to sink in to people's minds in order for them to be sufficiently equipped to guard themselves from the harm narcissists do. I'd tell someone the exact same thing the experts do, even if it was only based on my own knowledge of how the disorder works and what I've experienced firsthand.

To have hope for them changing, is to be ensnared. When dealing with narcissists, it's vital for you to fortify your psychological defenses/walls. Having hope that they will change only serves to form a point of weakness in the aforementioned mental protective mechanisms that you absolutely must maintain around them. Without it, they will inflict damage to you.

It's important because when you believe they will never change, you therefore expect them to continue behaving in toxic ways. That expectation is the key behind it all, it's the reason I'm saying it's important to accept the sad reality that there is no hope for them. Expecting their behaviors to remain consistent is the only way you will ever be able to truly psychologically distance from the narcissist; hoping they might change creates an opening for them to come back and abuse you. You're giving them more and more chances, but the only thing they will do with those chances is abuse you even more. You get away from them for a few years, then you think..."well, what if they've changed?" When first reuiniting, at the same time as you're sitting there thinking they may have changed, they are simultaneously going to be using the "love bombing" phase to draw you in again.

Maintaining hope and faith during difficult things is a wonderful quality to have, but you also must ensure that you're distributing those positive qualities to wise and positive endeavors. Don't throw your pearls before swine: some endeavors do not deserve your investment of time, energy, emotions/feelings, thoughts, efforts, and so on. Always look ahead to the end of what you're holding out for; does your path even have a reward at the end of it? If not, you're channeling your energy into traveling in the wrong direction in life. At the end of it, when you're looking back in hindsight, you will think of it as a mistake in your life.



"...the results they cause" - that would be the fact that all you will gain from investing your resources into narcissists while hoping they change...is all of the psychological, financial, damage they've inflicted (and maybe caused you to miss some opportunities you would've otherwise had in your life), while you were investing into them. You'll be hoping, having faith, and enduring, through an endeavor that will only leave you with damages to repair, and you'll need therapy when it's all said and done.

Changing a narcissist is not your responsibility, it's theirs. If they wanted to change, they could do it without you. Set your boundary and leave them to be responsible for their own selves.

Not saying this to Bethany only. I'm telling this to all readers here in general because it's crucial for anyone encountering narcissists to understand this.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

If you...

a) have no choice but to be around a narcissist

or

b) choose, for whatever reason, to remain in contact at all with a narcissist instead of going "no contact"

...you absolutely must manage your expectations and then set your boundaries according to those expectations. They won't change.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Fluffy Princess Unicorn you explain things really well. Yeah I guess with the person I had in mind I partly wonder if he just acted like someone with NPD (when it came to dealing with me) or if if he actually had it… I would say he probably acts similarly with other people though maybe not as bad. Can there be people who are close to having it but don’t actually have it..

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

@Fluffy Princess Unicorn you explain things really well. Yeah I guess with the person I had in mind I partly wonder if he just acted like someone with NPD (when it came to dealing with me) or if if he actually had it… I would say he probably acts similarly with other people though maybe not as bad. Can there be people who are close to having it but don’t actually have it..

Thanks. It's reassuring to hear that because I actually feel like I struggle with communicating my thoughts clearly. There's always so much more in my mind than what I'm able to explain to others. The feedback is useful in the sense that it confirms that my words are being received in the ways I intended them to be.

Some people do have narcissistic traits without actually meeting the diagnostic criteria for narcissism.


This might be inaccurate because it's anecdotal and my sample size is quite small compared to what would be appropriate for forming a firm conclusion...but based on my personal experiences and observations, I've noticed there seems to be a pattern of those "almost narcissists" types tending to have narcissistic parents themselves. I'd be interested in finding out whether that's true in his case. It'd have to be asked about with some graceful subtlety, it wouldn't be good to directly ask if his parents or whoever have NPD. It'd raise suspicion as to why you were asking, and you don't want to stumble into a situation where you almost have to reveal that you see him as a person with narcissistic traits. Narcissists don't react well to criticism and you'd more than likely end up provoking them to relentlessly lock their target onto you because it would inflict narcissistic injury - and believe me, narcissists never let that shit go. Besides, since his behaviors are narcissistic, there's a decent chance he wouldn't even associate his parents' behaviors with "abuse" or "NPD," because for him, it's already something normalized by his own behaviors. You'd have to just engage in a casual conversation and bring it up in a way that won't make it seem like a random inquiry out of nowhere. Instead of the direct questioning, you should nonchalantly ask normal seeming questions about what his parents are like, and in a way that just comes across as showing interest in him and trying to get to know him more. You'd basically just have to pick up on the narcissistic behaviors silently while he describes his parent or whoever raised him (especially whoever had him when he was between 18 months and 2 years of age). Probably not worth it to try finding out, though, since it'd necessitate interaction with him.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Me and my family are dealing with a male narcissist right now and it's pretty bad- although the gender is irrelevant and what both male and female narcs will do is try to show the outside world some squeaky clean moralistic 'good guy' image but interpersonally treat ppl like shit. Nobody is really policing ppl's internal treatment of each other the way they are external things- so that's often why it goes unnoticed and unpunished, and much of American society enables unhealthy narcissistic traits. Yea Regina Hurt from Starr FuckYourSelf I mean Starr Commonwealth hated me because I saw right through her with my 4D Ni and she needed to take me out before I exposed her and her plan failed. She didn't really get properly punished tho, in RaptorWizard's fantasy world a comedic anvil would just fall on them or they would hit a brick wall after somebody painted a convincing tunnel that looked like an escape route- but the grimdark Game of Thrones-y quote 'in real life the monsters win' has a lot of truth to it. They just made her switch departments and roles, as they realized she wasn't a good fit to actually help ppl with mental issues or problems. Better than nothing I guess- but the entire thing with narcissism won't really change unless there's some big revolutionary overhaul of society. Keep fighting the good fight even though in a realistic way, things often change quite slowly - so slowly u don't even realize they are changing, and there isn't any triumphant flare like when u beat a boss in Final Fantasy but they are Final Fantasy bosses that need to be defeated regardless.

[Muira]

Me and my family are dealing with a male narcissist right now and it's pretty bad-

Kick his ass out, he better stop acting up.

although the gender is irrelevant and what both male and female narcs will do is try to show the outside world some squeaky clean moralistic 'good guy' image but interpersonally treat ppl like shit.

Kick him out and let him beg to come back, reject him again, people who put themselves above the collective in the name of individual value are blind to the fact that they are just another cog in the machine.

Nobody is really policing ppl's internal treatment of each other the way they are external things- so that's often why it goes unnoticed and unpunished, and much of American society enables unhealthy narcissistic traits.

Yeah, because no one is allowed to smack some sense into each other, there is no hierarchy of respect simply because people have forgotten their place. We all rely on each other, so when we have a unjust ego, we forget our humility.

Yea Regina Hurt from Starr FuckYourSelf I mean Starr Commonwealth hated me because I saw right through her with my 4D Ni and she needed to take me out before I exposed her and her plan failed.

Good, that is one talent of yours.

She didn't really get properly punished tho, in RaptorWizard's fantasy world a comedic anvil would just fall on them or they would hit a brick wall after somebody painted a convincing tunnel that looked like an escape route- but the grimdark Game of Thrones-y quote 'in real life the monsters win' has a lot of truth to it.

This world is infested with babied clinically retarded wimps with the intellect of shit throwing chimps and the competency of a crippled blind, what did we expect? No structure leads to shitty punishments, which makes society just as shitty.

They just made her switch departments and roles, as they realized she wasn't a good fit to actually help ppl with mental issues or problems.

That's retarded.

Better than nothing I guess- but the entire thing with narcissism won't really change unless there's some big revolutionary overhaul of society.

Western philosophy has mindfucked people into absolute narcissism to the point society can no longer function because the collective mind is slowly disintegrating. Too much of anything, is bad, especially individualism in this case. How did this even unfold in the first place? We continued to baby people and tolerant their bs, allowing them to keep on pushing the boundaries even lower till it's all gone.

Keep fighting the good fight even though in a realistic way, things often change quite slowly - so slowly u don't even realize they are changing, and there isn't any triumphant flare like when u beat a boss in Final Fantasy but they are Final Fantasy bosses that need to be defeated regardless.

I approve as well, but up the assertiveness.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

In the HEXACO, Narcissism is especially correlated with the traits of low Honesty-Humility (and especially low on the subtrait of Modesty), Extraversion, low Agreeableness, and Openness to Experience.



https://www.haraldmerckelbach.nl/art...k%20Triads.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEXACO...lity_structure

[timber]

No. They won't. @Park's post was completely, 100% spot on. @Bethanyclaire This is why there is not a cure presently. The empathy area of their brains actually have less grey matter. They're incapable of having enough empathy to care how they're affecting others, which means they lack incentive to actually change their behaviors. They don't feel as though the improvements benefit or serve them, plus they don't care about others enough to care whether it benefits them either, and then it's far easier to just revert to the default settings and fall right back into the maladaptive coping mechanisms of narcissism.In order to cure narcissism, my guess is that there would need to be some sort of technology that can grow the empathy areas of their brains. I don't think that's the only thing that's needed in order to develop a cure for NPD, but I do think it's one aspect that's vital.

---

EDIT:By the way, when I say this, I'm not just mindlessly following and regurgitating what the experts on narcissism say; I'm not saying something that I have no substantial or concrete foundations for believing. Ugh, this comes across as though I'm just being insecure and trying to defend my views, but it's not that. I'm actually just struggling to articulate my thoughts in a way that accurately communicates my true point, my real aim. What I'm actually trying to convey is that, based on my own 32 years of close experiences with a few narcissists, I believe there is genuine credibility behind the experts saying it cannot be cured. At least, not until there is some kind of advancement in technology or something. I'm trying to deepen the sense that what they've said is valid and true because it's extremely important for this to sink in to people's minds in order for them to be sufficiently equipped to guard themselves from the harm narcissists do. I'd tell someone the exact same thing the experts do, even if it was only based on my own knowledge of how the disorder works and what I've experienced firsthand.To have hope for them changing, is to be ensnared. When dealing with narcissists, it's vital for you to fortify your psychological defenses/walls. Having hope that they will change only serves to form a point of weakness in the aforementioned mental protective mechanisms that you absolutely must maintain around them. Without it, they will inflict damage to you.It's important because when you believe they will never change, you therefore expect them to continue behaving in toxic ways. That expectation is the key behind it all, it's the reason I'm saying it's important to accept the sad reality that there is no hope for them. Expecting their behaviors to remain consistent is the only way you will ever be able to truly psychologically distance from the narcissist; hoping they might change creates an opening for them to come back and abuse you. You're giving them more and more chances, but the only thing they will do with those chances is abuse you even more. You get away from them for a few years, then you think..."well, what if they've changed?" When first reuiniting, at the same time as you're sitting there thinking they may have changed, they are simultaneously going to be using the "love bombing" phase to draw you in again.Maintaining hope and faith during difficult things is a wonderful quality to have, but you also must ensure that you're distributing those positive qualities to wise and positive endeavors. Don't throw your pearls before swine: some endeavors do not deserve your investment of time, energy, emotions/feelings, thoughts, efforts, and so on. Always look ahead to the end of what you're holding out for; does your path even have a reward at the end of it? If not, you're channeling your energy into traveling in the wrong direction in life. At the end of it, when you're looking back in hindsight, you will think of it as a mistake in your life."...the results they cause" - that would be the fact that all you will gain from investing your resources into narcissists while hoping they change...is all of the psychological, financial, damage they've inflicted (and maybe caused you to miss some opportunities you would've otherwise had in your life), while you were investing into them. You'll be hoping, having faith, and enduring, through an endeavor that will only leave you with damages to repair, and you'll need therapy when it's all said and done.Changing a narcissist is not your responsibility, it's theirs. If they wanted to change, they could do it without you. Set your boundary and leave them to be responsible for their own selves.Not saying this to Bethany only. I'm telling this to all readers here in general because it's crucial for anyone encountering narcissists to understand this.

Yes.

Are you familiar with Richard Grannon?

[Sol]

there are auto-subs

[Jarno]

There has to be some way to "repair" them.

they should let the eyes of others land on their true selves, without putting a mask in front of it.

I think narcissist come from a home where putting up appearances is normal. So they are not used to letting them see their true selves. It takes courage to show yourself. This can be trained.

[Sol]

I think narcissist come from a home where putting up appearances is normal.

It's linked but the reason and a consequence are in other order.
Narcissism is based on unusually higher egoism, lack of a compassion. As a cooperation with people needs to take into account interests of other people too, it's based on geting for both a usefulness from interactions - to what narcissism opposes by reducing the usefulness for other human - so nascissist has a higher need to hide own traits, to lie, to show what is not. To support the interest to do cooperations with him.
A predisposition to lie (in general) is among main personal traits of people with high egoism, with psychopatic behavior. In common, before they'll do you a significant harm, - they should be seen in minor lie to you or to others. They may do such minor fooling even without a need, alike an entertainment. To lie with high risk to be noticed in this, to lie with geting of small usefulness from this, to mislead by rejecting of rather evident without feeling a need to think to be true. They relate easily to lieing, in general. As lieing is basic trait of their social adoption, as they perceive own social place.

To be honest with other people would be a significant break of own common behavior for them. A way to change deeply own personality. So in case of therapy of this as a disorder - would be important part. We break the existing and then build something new.
While tales about "environment/family influence" for disorders genesis is common for today psychology. This can be the reason of such opinions. Those fairytales go since Freud, which used not much objective approach for his model of therapy. The more influencing reason of strong psychology anomalies should be biological, - the stronger is, the more of biology there. But besides biology, to change a behavior can be used "talking" therapy approach and to do explanations is useful during this. Even if those explanations can be lesser correct than it's tried to be shown. Therapy process may work by different reasons, when it significantly works at all.

[timber]

Maybe making them regress to the "proto-self" before the narcissistic wound, and then having them re-build their personality from that point. Not sure if it's doable. Any ideas?

Ibogaine, perhaps?

This shit has to be done chemically. Otherwise there is no force on Earth strong enough to facilitate the necessary breakthrough to the real self.

The real self being the black hole Sun.

I think the narcs viewed the Sun and their response to it is to firm up the false ego. The false ego has its place, of course, but for them, it has become pathologized.

I shake my head. I always thought it would take a divine revelation. What on Earth has that potential?

Throw in a substance abuse disorder, and the psychiatric issues, and its .... impossible.. :..(

[timber]

they should let the eyes of others land on their true selves, without putting a mask in front of it.

I think narcissist come from a home where putting up appearances is normal. So they are not used to letting them see their true selves. It takes courage to show yourself. This can be trained.

I agree, but I would say it can be trained in regular people. True narcs , its like the hardware itself is busted.

People will do anything to avoid facing themselves. Yet the shame, its like they are obsessed with not shining their light, or they choose the wrong wolf.

[CosmicCat]

Maybe making them regress to the "proto-self" before the narcissistic wound, and then having them re-build their personality from that point. Not sure if it's doable. Any ideas?

Narcissism is a personality disorder, which implies that there's a personality right order. However, like how some babies are born with maimed limbs, it may not be possible for the right order to be actualized in his current life.

[lavos]

Narcissism is a personality disorder, which implies that there's a personality right order. However, like how some babies are born with maimed limbs, it may not be possible for the right order to be actualized in his current life.

Erm, it is not equivalent because narcissism is an acquired condition. Due to its status as an acquired condition, it might be possible to disown it somehow.

[Park]

Erm, it is not equivalent because narcissism is an acquired condition. Due to its status as an acquired condition, it might be possible to disown it somehow.

The only problem is, it is generally acquired before the age of 3, after failing to complete the separation-individuation process: https://learning-theories.com/separa...nt-mahler.html.

(Longer read: https://www.encyclopedia.com/referen...-individuation.)

[Park]

Narcissists are indifferent and ambivalent towards others because they are indifferent and ambivalent towards themselves. They get negligent and hurtful towards others because that is how they treat themselves as well. They can't get themselves to truly care about or love someone else because, contrary to popular belief, they don't truly love or care about themselves.

[Park]

I found this to be one of Sam's most insightful videos:



He explains how the "dead mother" complex (referring to a non-nurturing, emotionally absent mother/caregiver) can result in a child developing an empty core, fostering the development of attachment and personality disorders including Narcissism, Borderline, and Schizoid.

---
The dead mother absents herself—and the child. She does not recognize the child's separateness, externality, and boundaries. This kind of mother—and later in life father—abuses and traumatizes the child by treating the child as an extension of herself, a prop, or an object.

She may abuse the child physically, sexually, verbally, or psychologically—but she may also be overprotective, possessive, over-indulging, instrumentalizing, and parentifying. She may be devaluing and negating—or she may idealize and pedestalize.

In all these cases, the child is denied access to reality and peers, is unable to form a self and to stabilize its sense of self-worth from the inside. Instead, the child becomes performative and seeks external regulation. He fails to separate and individuate.

---
@godslave What Sam said in the video starting at around 11:30 reminded me of your comments about shame and your relationship with your father.

[godslave]

---
@godslave What Sam said in the video starting at around 11:30 reminded me of your comments about shame and your relationship with your father.

Yes indeed. I wanted my father to be proud of me but in vain. My father has a bad temper (esp before he became religious after his father passed away circa 1987). My relationship with him wasn't good. I didn't like him but I didn't show it. My relationship with him often felt like that of Rémi and his "father" (Jérôme Barberin) From the novel the "Sans famille" by Hector Malot. Here is an Anime adaptation that really marked me when I was a kid. At that time to me my father was the very incarnation of this Jérôme Barberin (my mother is just like Madame Barberin)... Till this day I find echo in Rémi and watching that anime is still triggering.

So I found myself in the very uncomfortable position of on one hand wanting to give a reason to my father to "appreciate" me (yes that would have been enough even if it isn't normal and all parents should love their children unconditionally !) and on the other hand having to deal with my trauma alone, that's pretty heavy to carry for a child. So after my failure from school (because of so many issues that would be too long to explain here), a part of me took refuge in music (guitar obsession and also Romantic Passions) while another took refuge in building a new persona that would hopefully seduce my father and makes him proud of me that is to say developing better skills in his field of interest namely religion.

I kinda had faith at the time, I was an agnostic Muslim. However, I've never wear the outfit that goes with it. I was a metalhead in spirit for God's sake so my outfit was relatively normal. I dress for confort mostly but I dislike to wear anything that might attract attention or betray what I like. For instance I would never wear an Iron Maiden T-shirt because that alone would tell a lot about me. Yes I'm a living contradiction...

I don't hate my father, I sincerely forgive him because he didn't know what he was doing (yes I'm paraphrasing Jesus !). I think that having a good sense of humour is really important and helpful, with it and music life can always seem less ugly. Thank God, I'm not a Freudian !!

 

[Park]

I dress for confort mostly but I dislike to wear anything that might attract attention or betray what I like. For instance I would never wear an Iron Maiden T-shirt because that alone would tell a lot about me.

And yet, you do the opposite here on this forum. Is it because of the anonymity and/or lack of physicality that comes with the environment?

[Park]

And yet, you do the opposite here on this forum. Is it because of the anonymity and/or lack of physicality that comes with the environment?

Might be somewhat unrelated, but this reminded me of how I used to think having an invisibility cloak (or the ability to make myself invisible at will) would be the best superpower I could have.

[godslave]

And yet, you do the opposite here on this forum. Is it because of the anonymity and/or lack of physicality that comes with the environment?

Might be somewhat unrelated, but this reminded me of how I used to think having an invisibility cloak (or the ability to make myself invisible at will) would be the best superpower I could have.

That's a good question indeed. I've never "used" the anonymity as a shield behind which I could say stuff that I wouldn't in real life. When I was a kid I changed school several times so I have my pattern when it comes to group integration. I've always been the introvert guy who observe from afar waiting to be invited to join the group. That said, this forum is different from real life in the sense that it is a niche in which I expect a certain openness from people. I feel a bit more free and secure here because we are all psychology/Typology aficionados.

Let's face it, I'm crazy ! Back when I had a semblance of life (an eternity ago) and I started working as a temp for a transport company, I had to get to know all my co-workers and understand their personalities before I could reveal mine. In other words, I had to make sure that the real me would be accepted before revealing it. I had to take the time to make myself be appreciated (or maybe to make it so that each person sees themself when they see me (?) I don't know all this happens unconsciously). It took me a few weeks before feeling secure enough to go wild and confidently sing Metal songs while working on my electric stand-on pallet truck. It's a question of survival ! Know yourself but know others even better !

To me each person is a universe to be explored, but because I'm socially introvert, I don't like to reveal to much about myself in real life. I'm a bit of a chameleon. I've always had the feeling of being like some kind of double agent, I certainly think like one. Being a minority of second generation with a double culture and a very conservative father (like all my relative from his side) has probably a lot to do with the development of my coping strategies.