Is being a male aggressor “problematic”?

[Averroes]

Persistence and pursuing women without regard for their attraction towards you sounds icky in today’s climate. Women are so bold and open about their interest nowadays that it makes more sense to be a little laidback and wait for signals like a victim


edit: I made this exact thread 3 years ago, that’s crazy

[Squirrel]

It depends on how the woman receives this behaviour, does she likes it or hates it or not prefer it etc

Some women like this and some don't

[Alonzo]

Part of the problem is that folks don't realize that "aggression" can be enacted in multiple ways, some of which don't inherently involve being a rape-y, psychopathic predator. When done right, romantic "aggression" should, at least in part, manifest as a protective mindset, IMO. According to some Socionists, feudalism, the dominant social system of Europe during the Middle Ages, was a Beta construct--and at that time, the highest and most benign form of Beta "aggressor" sexual behavior manifested as "chivalry," or "the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, especially courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak." I don't see why this ideal still can't be be upheld today and forever, regardless of sex/gender.

If current societal trends/prevailing Quadral values and norms dictate that "male aggressors" develop more self-awareness about our forcefulness and propensity to over-assert/push past boundaries, then great. Because Beta and Gamma "aggressor" behavior accounts for only 1 out of 4 "romance styles," it behooves us to be adaptable and amendable to alternate ways of existing; in so much as we all exist, we're equally valid. There is no one right way to be (as far as Quadral values), it's all context dependent. Part of the point is for the Quadras to moderate/mitigate each other's worst excesses. And aggressor behavior, taken to the extreme, can be brutally oppressive.

[Aster]

in the current social climate it is. But things change. I don’t think it ‘bad’ necessarily. Cave man mentality it was good for survival. Now it seems to be looked down upon more than ever since women have become more independent. Family roles and gender have become broader and masculinity is less desirable and more threatening. I don’t think society can be maintained like this, personally.

[DogOfDanger]

There are alot of factors that go into the trend of reduced masculinity.
Women nowdays strive more to be financially independent. Part of this is due to necessity... it is harder to survive off 1 income. People also are uprooted, moving from one school to the next, one job to the next, etc.. and they're also more globally networked. So there's not as much that ties people to one another. There are also failed or broken relationships with men, which may be for all sorts of reasons... and there's poor self image (alot of which is due to media) that makes people afraid to form relationships... then there's birth control which gives women more freedom, there's the structure of society that educates them toward becoming productive workers.
Since women are more independent there's less of a place for men to take charge / provide for them.

There are also all kinds of synthetic compounds that are consumed by humans which reduce testosterone levels. We currently have record low testosterone levels. There's also widespread porn consumption which channels people into virtual reality away from everyday women. Also, real life women pretty much never are going to be as attractive as the women in porn.
So this further reduces male initiative.

Since we're in a prolonged economic contraction men have less resources and less ability to provide, it also takes them much longer to get the educational prerequisites to earning a good income.

And then you have the woke brigade which sees the patriarchy as a threat to its ascension. But this is just a small part of the issue, really. Probably it's not actually that significant of a factor, it just get most of the attention.. I think this woke crap is actually falling out of style.

When you add it all up there are just so many factors stacked against the traditional masculine I'm not surprised society is moving the way it is.
Sometimes I see men try to respond to this with an exaggerated masculinity... I wouldn't recommend that though. Really this response is just even more desperate, and does nothing to change the core drivers.

my advice...
- get an education in a discipline that pays well. don't be stupid and pursue a liberal arts degree hoping to find deeper life satisfaction
- establish some lasting social connections
- don't consume chemicals that antagonize male hormones
- stay physically active and engaged
- learn to spot / avoid female power trippy narcissists (when women are mentally ill they often have a need to establish arbitrary authority over others, it's the masculine shadow Jung talks about... best to avoid)
- be yourself - no need to be concerned about what's stereotypically masculine, the point of your life is not to fulfill a stereotype... being a man you are ultimately the definition of manhood, anyway.

[Sol]

Women are so bold and open about their interest nowadays

If you decide by behavior of aristocracy of the past - may to be. There people played much of social rituals. I suspect they have much formalized behavior at now too, mb some lesser.
While 90% of women were "bold and open about their interest" in similar degree. The reason why lower classes were associated with rough behavior.

What has changed for masses - is that people more often do sex without significant feelings. In the past sex would lead to children, while today such risk is reduced much by meds/rubber - this had the influence on the culture. It's stupid approach anyway, as people spare the attention on people with who get emotionally lesser and risk of diseases is significant.

> laidback and wait for signals like a victim

It's more about introvertion.
In case you have an extravertion - such approach may help too, but more chance to get initial attention of extraverted people. Some introverts may be active also, but it's not about majority of them and happens more rare. So you'll get mainly activator IR by this approach. I had such experience of flirting IEE with me, when I just set and watched on pretty woman - she came and started to talk 1st.
In case you'd want introverted woman - there is no much choice then to direct your horse to her side. Before doing so it's useful to think about signes of an interest to you, which introverts show alike by smiling to your side, more often watching on you, changing body position to more alive after seeing you, etc.

[Ikite iru]

in the current social climate it is. But things change. I don’t think it ‘bad’ necessarily. Cave man mentality it was good for survival. Now it seems to be looked down upon more than ever since women have become more independent. Family roles and gender have become broader and masculinity is less desirable and more threatening. I don’t think society can be maintained like this, personally.

I've been occasionally thinking about this definition of aggressor romance style because I've observed quite a lot of victim types going the route of "ask a 100 girls out and a couple of them will say yes" which on the surface seems like aggressor behaviour but it doesn't fit. I think some intuitives are confident enough to make direct advances, but for the aggressor type, the interest is really blunt and concrete, while for an intuitive type they often reflect in the back of their head "is the person really right for me? Does it work long term?" Or "is she/he even that interesting"? just lots of reflections that make both partners if they are intuitive very sceptical of the relation. Aggressors are really a bit weird, just a week or so ago I had an older SLE coworker tell a rape joke to an SLI female worker and even with my stupid Fi I noticed how dumb that was. Agressor types just often aren't very subtle and they end up hitting on people when it is really inappropriate to do so and I dunno maybe the way our society currently works is not right for that behaviour but then I wonder when/if it ever is. There's some inherent violent aspect to extroverted sensing which the current society tries to surpress but it just leads to mental diseases due to a complete absence of mentorship and authority. It's easy to imagine that all of this nonsense comes to a halt and a type like SLE comes in with an 'eat or die, no excuses' attitude to get at least a bit of structure back. Maybe I'm wrong though considering that russia is a dying empire.

[Ikite iru]

I think the western school system is also not really great for many men who just don't learn theoretical knowledge by sitting idly on a desk listening to a teacher who speaks in a slow manner. Many men learn through practical experience with their hands, while this passive learning style fits women much more, who are also more inclined to follow rules and don't risk as much. In the western world, you have to go out of your way to even experience danger or struggle, and there's just rules everywhere. I think there's a lack of purpose for many concrete thinking men, but I don't think it will stay that way forever. It's just hard to predict how things will develop at the moment, but many elements that make life comfortable in the western world are based on fossil fuels, so I see a change coming on the energy front

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Nah but obviously certain males are allowed to act that way whereas others aren't. No offense but maybe u only think it's problematic because you're not really allowed to be that way with women or u don't know how to aggress on them in a way that they like. When feminists/women say they dislike aggressive males it's a bit disingenuous I mean obviously they are saying they don't want beta cucks and omega males to aggress upon them, they want "Chads" or sexy 6 foot 5 hypermasculine black males with big dicks to do it. According to wikipedia, 97% of heterosexual females prefer to be submissive sexually so they still want aggressive males they just want the male to aggress upon them the right way.

I'm gonna get a tomato thrown at me maybe for posting this, but it's so obvious. If you're having too much of a conscience you're doing it the wrong way - if ur not having a conscience at all like Bundy you're doing it wrong too but more women probably still wrote love letters to him in prison a lot more than they would some boring nice guy. /hides.

I don't think it's misogynistic pointing this stuff out, just realistic. I don't think anybody should be hated on for who they are naturally attracted to. ((obviously)) I still kinda sassily rant for ppl to date beta males cuz it seems better to top train people and encourage a beta male to be more properly animalistic than it does for an alpha male to be kinder and nice to you because often that's the way of emotional suicide. YMMV but my own life the plot of fifty shades of gray never worked for me with my own bad boys lol. I found greater success making mama's boys more primal with me even though yeah naturally of course, I just wish somebody was naturally that way plus also was heartfelt & kissed me tenderly but there's a saying 'God gives with one hand.' Why I was such a fag for Jesse Santana as he seemed masculine and Chad-ish but also vulnerable enough for me, the best of both worlds.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Me and one of my str8 female besties:

me: I'm sorry I was too harsh with str8 women before lol
str8 girl: It's okay. We suck sometimes <3
me: Aww.. <3

LEAVE STRAIGHT WOMEN ALONE! THEY ARE HUMANS! BUT DON'T LEAVE THEM ALONE IF UR A CHAD CUZ THEY LIKE WHEN YOU SPIT ON THEIR FACE! @Fractals

[persimmonism]

Call me an idealist, or a traditionalist, but I believe that with the excesses of feminism, men no longer know how to court, or women to be courted.
Also, I believe that a fundamental flaw in understanding is that both contain their own elements of both action & reception, as do the literal romance styles "aggression" and "victim".

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

One of the happiest people I have come across says that fear stands for "false evidence appearing real" (f.e.a.r., got it???)

[chriscorey]

One of the happiest people I have come across says that fear stands for "false evidence appearing real" (f.e.a.r., got it???)

you go gurl

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

you go gurl

Any news from the front?

[chriscorey]

Any news from the front?

Look for the googly in people. Aha the pills take my sight

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Look for the googly in people. Aha the pills take my sight

What happens when you lower the dose ?


BTW I was referring to the other thingggg

[chriscorey]

What happens when you lower the dose ?


BTW I was referring to the other thingggg

he stays no matter what, but my sight is gone. The pills take my sight.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

he stays no matter what, but my sight is gone. The pills take my sight.

No, the other thingggg

[chriscorey]

No, the other thingggg

the sex? We still have sex

[Bethanyclaire]

Seriously thank for god for gay men, women have let me down, doctors of both genders have let me down, and the gay men in my life help me feel somewhat protected from the vulture men and women I’m trapped with. I wasn’t supposed to be afraid of men, I got on well with kindly male teachers at school but I grew up in the era of Paris Hilton and Britney, it was ok to prey upon women. But the men I’ve had issues with are either slightly older or slightly younger than me, the older one disguises his aggression as ‘noble and authoritative’ and the younger ones think they are far too sensitive themselves to ever be a threat.

A family member thinks he isn’t sexist (or maybe he thinks he is I don’t know) because he has a partner, not a good ITR..he grew up thinking we have to play a gendered role (probably I did too) based on my parent’s supervision relationship. I’m sure some supervision is ok but I think it can be one that somewhat vulnerable, uneducated people can fall into. I think in the worse ITR people end up playing roles- I notice couples seem more like they are putting on a show/ playing a part, maybe it is easy to slip into that mode. With better ITR there may be a chance to see that you don’t need to wind each other up all the time or prove to people you have banter and tension. I don’t know maybe couples would be boring if they were all duals. Also I know of abusive dual couples, so positive ITR doesn’t necessarily spell success.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

@chriscorey, fine. Dropping this.

[chriscorey]

@chriscorey, fine. Dropping this.

Did I upset upset you? I'm sorry

I don't know what 'thing' means

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Did I upset upset you?

You did not <3

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I've been occasionally thinking about this definition of aggressor romance style because I've observed quite a lot of victim types going the route of "ask a 100 girls out and a couple of them will say yes" which on the surface seems like aggressor behaviour but it doesn't fit. I think some intuitives are confident enough to make direct advances, but for the aggressor type, the interest is really blunt and concrete, while for an intuitive type they often reflect in the back of their head "is the person really right for me? Does it work long term?" Or "is she/he even that interesting"? just lots of reflections that make both partners if they are intuitive very sceptical of the relation. Aggressors are really a bit weird, just a week or so ago I had an older SLE coworker tell a rape joke to an SLI female worker and even with my stupid Fi I noticed how dumb that was. Agressor types just often aren't very subtle and they end up hitting on people when it is really inappropriate to do so and I dunno maybe the way our society currently works is not right for that behaviour but then I wonder when/if it ever is. There's some inherent violent aspect to extroverted sensing which the current society tries to surpress but it just leads to mental diseases due to a complete absence of mentorship and authority. It's easy to imagine that all of this nonsense comes to a halt and a type like SLE comes in with an 'eat or die, no excuses' attitude to get at least a bit of structure back. Maybe I'm wrong though considering that russia is a dying empire.

ive never seen a Se society where there was proper courting. in one of them the brides are literally kidnapped from other families and forced to marry the kidnapper because thats the tradition if they pay them enough cows. what also happenned before would a woman get raped she'd be blamed for being attention seeker, they are just men, its normal etc etc. i know ESI and SLE who go around fucking for fun. the ESI is controlling nad believes whatever he can do is what is ok to do. animals are here to be eaten and women are here to be. the SLE has a dumb gf who lets him cheat on him repeatedly and stays. the ESI also beleives the man can cheat but the woman can not. andrew tate is LIE and hes a doofus manipulator than any sane woman will see through if not immediately then after just a little bit time with him. i know a lot of Se egos would just love to grope or cat call anyone who seems attractive as "courting". the ESI and SLE are both pleasure addicts who do waht they want to do but wont spend time on building a functional brain or understanding of the world, who think just bc they do physical labor otherwise are entitled to everything else, who kept giving up being impatient at the slightest of difficulties when they did try something else OR trying to push through with brute force be that drawing, math, biology. what do u think about the rapes in india, middle east and russia where men are allowed to act like degenerates and women are kinda not allowed to defend themselves. i dont think all Se egos are trahs, ive experienced a few decent onse but they dont do that shit is the poitn. Se egos just dont want ot learn how to do things, they get angry and frustrated and go distract themselves. all societies that enable Se egos like that are obviously brain rotten. the hell is lack of mentorship and authority - they need someone to hold their damn hand through everything all the time in a worse way bc they cant even sit down and listen by themselvses. u have to chase them, imprison them, beat them and they will still end up believing what they want (specifically usually justifying hierarchies of abuse.) LSI female thinks anyone who has power deserves it bc they had to sacrifice something else so no one has it easier than anyone else. thats literal complete abscence of morality. she also doesnt like being manipulated or controlled, yet she will make things violent if someone tells her how it is or dares assert their own borthers (which she sees as a form of control). she glorifies gangsters and married another Se ego who physically abused her, then she says she read spiritual things about forgiveness and kept forgiving but he kept doing it and she is bitter about how that forgiveness didnt give her anything. ironically if she was more "spiritual" she would have found someone who treated her right if she treated them right. ESI does blame women for dressing provocative or going out alone at night. Other ESI (similar to this ESI acutally) spent a lot of his teen years playing games. thats a lot of time playing games. he is also the one who does a lot of chores in the house. ofc if u spend all ur time playing games, doing chores and trying to dconform to some external standards at school u will not develop mentally in almost any way.
what kind of mentroship does someone fucking need to leanr that rape is really bad, that hitting someone is really bad, that getting angry and trying to contorl someone is really bad, that people ahve borders that should be respected and domination hierarchies are intrinsically unfair and abusive (caveat is ofc thers gonna be power structures for the sake of ORGANIZATION and execution of tasks thats not the same as abusing pwoer to control others).

[Averroes]

Shit, maybe I'm not an aggressor at all? I'm corny, self-deprecating and practically terrified of women who don't give me attention first but have a thirsty, assertive side once I have a green light. If a woman gives me mixed signals I just assume she finds me ugly and leave. I think my "problem" is that I'm just not that attractive and I'm reading most women correctly

[Sol]

Shit, maybe I'm not an aggressor at all?

You may make a theme with a video to get different opinions.

> I think my "problem" is that I'm just not that attractive and I'm reading most women correctly

In many cases it needs a time to know you, interactions and flirt to inspire the interest and feelings.

[Muira]

No your judgement was perfectly fine, just weird to even think that there are people who just hit on people out of the blue. Being a chick makes me hate those types of people, pisses me of to go to the grocery store and have to deal with cat callers/freaks.

[chriscorey]

You did not <3

I still apologize.

My mind is like this:

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I still apologize.

My mind is like this:

That's a cute video and I think u look like the person in it

I apologize too. For everything #Ho'oponopono

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Fear is false evidence appearing real but it's probably also so brutally true u should pay attention to it & respect it. I mean if you were alone with a serial killer you would probably feel fear because they really do want to cut up your eyeballs and put them in your butthole or whatever.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

<3 Bethany I heart you too