What's my type + Video

[fjoerd]

I am 100% introvert, every since I was a young kid. Maybe people are overthinking it... including myself

Thinking about this more, no matter which angle I'm looking at it from, it all leads to the conclusion that your type is ILI.


If we agree on or start from the base that you're a natural Introvert and a natural Thinker and try to decide whether you value Pragmatism (Te) over Laws (Ti) or the other way around, there's a clearly identifiable preference.


While you're great at both, based on the way you present yourself in your Loom video and in your posts in this topic, everything leads to the conclusion that you value Te over Ti. The mindset you approach typology with confirms this. Even if Jungian typologies are just theories based around different variations of Jung's model, and by their nature, they're abstract concepts with no convincing empirical evidence to support them, you were able to formulate a precise idea and had a goal explainable in clear and simple terms in your mind about what do you want to use this for and you seem disappointed by all the derailing tangents you perceive are getting in the way.


The natural Ti disposition is fundamentally different from this. Ti is always blocked with an extroverted perceiving function and the two work together like this: The perceiving part (Se or Ne) is focused on the breadth of information (being open to and gathering as much information as possible) and the thinking part (Ti) is focused on all the logical connections between them, and its purpose is to narrow down this web of connections down to coherent narratives while discarding all the information that don't fit into them (depth).


You seem to be the opposite. You scan for relevant data only (and you become restless and obsessive when you feel you're getting carried away - this is a clear preference for depth rather than breadth when it comes to gathering information, and it indicates an introverted perceiving function), you sort incoming data into useful and unuseful, you discard the unuseful and pile up the useful (this is a clear a preference for breadth in judging and the nature of judging is all about pragmatic thinking - Te). To put it in a different way, you had a rather clear idea _upfront_ of what typology is supposed to be about and how it would be beneficial to you to explore it and to put this knowledge to good use.


At the same time, you're also very good at Ti - you appreciate coherent arguments and you're able to quickly point out inconsistencies or flaws in logic, but you don't use it yourself to form positive narratives or reach to new conclusions, you mainly use it in a negative, argumentative way, or in other words, in a clear and precise but in the end, in a demonstrative manner to support your Te upper in the stack and explain to yourself and others why are you discarding or dismissing ideas or informations you perceive as not relevant. And it all boils down to this: If it's not useful to you for a particular purpose, it's not relevant.


Introversion, Te in the Ego Block and Ti demonstrative leads to two possibilities. You're either the introvert Delta ST type (ISTp / SLI) or the introvert Gamma NT type (INTp / ILI). To decide between the two, you have to look at the fundamental differences between the values of the two quadras. Delta STs value Si and Ne and have Si higher in the stack while Gamma NTs value Ni and Se, and have Ni higher in the stack. The two quadras are just nothing alike, I don't even see the point of going any further, - you belong to an Ni-Se valuing quadra and there's just no chance that your type is Si-base and you being ISTp / SLI. But I can say this, if you haven't already, just look up how Jung defined Ni in Psychological Types, chapter 10, and see it if it makes sense to you.

[MadaraZero]

Hey, you are so right. I don't understand 75% of what they are saying.

[MadaraZero]

"At the same time, you're also very good at Ti - you appreciate coherent arguments and you're able to quickly point out inconsistencies or flaws in logic, but you don't use it yourself to form positive narratives or reach to new conclusions, you mainly use it in a negative, argumentative way, or in other words, in a clear and precise but in the end, in a demonstrative manner to support your Te upper in the stack and explain to yourself and others why are you discarding or dismissing ideas or informations you perceive as not relevant. And it all boils down to this: If it's not useful to you for a particular purpose, it's not relevant.
"

I've never in my life seen anyone analysis me so correctly. Differentiating between my Ti and Te use was one of the most difficult. And I have been having thoughts recently that all my life revolves around Te. You speak a clear and understandable language and I am reading something intelligent for once.

I read chapter 10, a bit rushed, it has been ages since I've read verbose stuff like that on psychology, I couldn't process all of it deeply. Just a gut feeling that this is relatable. But at the same time I am not sure if I am being biased, I only know my own mind and not that of others so I have no point of reference to know whether this is normal or not, I am worrying about whether I am falling for something akin to the barnum effect. I can say with certainty that I do relate to the ''underdeveloped" extraverted sensing part a lot. That part didn't use many fancy words.

Another thing that makes me doubt, is that my friend is INTJ (MBTI). He speaks a lot in metaphors. I don't tend to do that as much. So it makes me think I may not be a dominant Ni person if that makes sense. However, I do think 100% in images. Even when I am verbally thinking, it is usually people talking or a chatting screen like this. I rarely think only with sound or with sound included, in fact, imagining sound is pretty much non-existent in my brain except for when I am thinking while whispering. Someone pointed out that Ni people think a lot in images with that part I can 100% relate, fantasy, imagination and visual thinking is pretty much the core of my brain.

I also read a bit about ILI on this website. The Ni is part is very relatable and the Si part was so relatable that I started laughing out loud. It was spot on sentence for sentence. I think if I read most of these I can analyse myself what type I am, but would take a bit too much time.

"An ILI's sense of self doubt may lead to such assumptions as the presence of a brain tumor as the result of a mere headache. In contrast to Si types, ILIs are significantly less adept at making active adjustments to their lifestyle to correct these minor ailments."

[Sol]

I am 100% introvert

Until positive IR effects checking with good known people IRL you may mistake in own type and any of its traits.
You mainly decide by common behavior. While it's under influence of different factors and sometimes can be unusual for your type (type trait).
To understand types of those people is possibly in monthes without good skills, with step by step thinking and using correct theory (4 dichotomies, 8 functions, strong/weak + valued/nonvalued functions, IR). By peoples' common behavior, intuitive impressions from nonverbal, tests.

I saw people which doubted in own types for years. I'm sure they'd could to solve this with IR by the said approach. Try it. And only then there will be good basis to be assured in your type's traits.

For the important theory you may read in English books by Jung and Filatova. Then other texts what you'd want. I recommend to stay in theory limits I pointed above, as other is very more doubtful.

[MadaraZero]

I don't know what to tell you. Everyone I know will tell you I am extremely private. I only see my friends once a month or once every 2 months. I know that this is not the only thing about introversion and it is more nuanced and also about how we process information. But of this I am at least certain.

[Sol]

Everyone I know will tell you I am extremely private.

What seen is common behavior. Jung's type is what in your mind. IR is the best way to be assured in type's traits.
For example, negative experience with people may do contacts lower, closer to common for introverts. While IR effects should be stable.

I'd recommend to make a video with a camera established on the level of chest and when you'd talked to camera side. Such your nonverbal would be seen better, incl. impressions from eyes. You could see how youtubes make the picture.

[MadaraZero]

What is IR? What are you talking about?

I believe my video would be biased I did something that increased my magnetism by 10x adjusting my natural proclivity, some would be inclined to say extrovert. I can't reveal what that something is since most people think I am crazy.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

What is IR? What are you talking about?

I believe my video would be biased I did something that increased my magnetism by 10x adjusting my natural proclivity, some would be inclined to say extrovert. I can't reveal what that something is since most people think I am crazy.

IR means intertype relations. what sol means is that you need to interact with people and observe how you get along with them/how pleasant the interactions are while trying to figure out their type. this way you might figure out your own type. I personally question the effectiveness of such a method, as IR usually manifest in close distance and takes a while to observe. often we just spend time with people who we find attractive/like-minded/similar/interesting.

[MadaraZero]

Well, I guess it does make sense since like attracts like. The only person that I have conversations with that I enjoy is my INTJ friend (MBTI INTJ). The other one is an ENTP. The other 2 people I interact with most are INFP and ENFP. I enjoy talking the most with my INTJ friend, but we only really have an in depth conversation once every few months. But that may be just adulthood taking our time away.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Well, I guess it does make sense since like attracts like. The only person that I have conversations with that I enjoy is my INTJ friend (MBTI INTJ). The other one is an ENTP. The other 2 people I interact with most are INFP and ENFP. I enjoy talking the most with my INTJ friend, but we only really have an in depth conversation once every few months. But that may be just adulthood taking our time away.

I think the problem is (no offense to you or anything) that there's is never really a strong certainty that your judgement is correct. I guess a good approach would be to take people where you are absolutely sure about their type and compare them to yourself and what you value or if they relate to the way you live or go through life. I personally am not sure if Te is entirely related to a "fact" based perception of reality, as I think Ti is very factual too, the latter just prefers to subjectively asses and create speculative systems while the former just accepts knowledge as it is. Te is also related to handling money and being responsible with it. that's why IEI often make purchases that they haven't considered well or are bad at handling money/ live wasteful when they have too much. as they exist at the moment I find the cognitive functions not well defined but that's just my own opinion.

[fjoerd]

"At the same time, you're also very good at Ti - you appreciate coherent arguments and you're able to quickly point out inconsistencies or flaws in logic, but you don't use it yourself to form positive narratives or reach to new conclusions, you mainly use it in a negative, argumentative way, or in other words, in a clear and precise but in the end, in a demonstrative manner to support your Te upper in the stack and explain to yourself and others why are you discarding or dismissing ideas or informations you perceive as not relevant. And it all boils down to this: If it's not useful to you for a particular purpose, it's not relevant.
"

I've never in my life seen anyone analysis me so correctly. Differentiating between my Ti and Te use was one of the most difficult. And I have been having thoughts recently that all my life revolves around Te. You speak a clear and understandable language and I am reading something intelligent for once.

I read chapter 10, a bit rushed, it has been ages since I've read verbose stuff like that on psychology, I couldn't process all of it deeply. Just a gut feeling that this is relatable. But at the same time I am not sure if I am being biased, I only know my own mind and not that of others so I have no point of reference to know whether this is normal or not, I am worrying about whether I am falling for something akin to the barnum effect. I can say with certainty that I do relate to the ''underdeveloped" extraverted sensing part a lot. That part didn't use many fancy words.

Another thing that makes me doubt, is that my friend is INTJ (MBTI). He speaks a lot in metaphors. I don't tend to do that as much. So it makes me think I may not be a dominant Ni person if that makes sense. However, I do think 100% in images. Even when I am verbally thinking, it is usually people talking or a chatting screen like this. I rarely think only with sound or with sound included, in fact, imagining sound is pretty much non-existent in my brain except for when I am thinking while whispering. Someone pointed out that Ni people think a lot in images with that part I can 100% relate, fantasy, imagination and visual thinking is pretty much the core of my brain.

I also read a bit about ILI on this website. The Ni is part is very relatable and the Si part was so relatable that I started laughing out loud. It was spot on sentence for sentence. I think if I read most of these I can analyse myself what type I am, but would take a bit too much time.

"An ILI's sense of self doubt may lead to such assumptions as the presence of a brain tumor as the result of a mere headache. In contrast to Si types, ILIs are significantly less adept at making active adjustments to their lifestyle to correct these minor ailments."

If you're unsure about Ni in the leading position, we can go back, and start again from the base of that you're an Introvert, a Thinker and from a Ni/Se quadra (Beta or Gamma). From this angle, there's two possibilities: Either LSI (Ti-Se / ISTj) from Beta or ILI (Ni-Te / INTp) from Gamma. LSI has strong Se, Si demonstrative and Te ignoring and it's one of the least intuitive types. Ideas or Extroverted Intuition is their PoLR/vulnerable spot. People of this type usually don't score high on Openness in Big 5 either. A simple way to decide between the two is to figure out where is your Fe, - In the PoLR/vulnerable position or in the dual-seeking position? You can read about the differences between the two on the Wiki. Just an addition to that: If your type was ILI and Fe was in the PoLR/vulnerable position, according to the idea of intertype relations, the type you would get along with the least supposed to be Fe leading, ESE in particular. If your type was LSI and Fe was in the suggestive/dual-seeking position, your ideal match would be Fe leading, EIE in particular. As I said in a previous post, you look more Fe PoLR than Fe seeking to me. But this is a workaround, you have to be sure about your leading function, since that is the most relevant and is the most defining part of a type.

Just a random question: Why did you pick up boxing?

Edit:
(p.s. Honestly, if you're doubting yourself because you hoped for a deeper truth, and you just feel something must be up because you don't sense that any of the answers would be perfect, you have to take it more easy. That deeper truth is not real. If you have a rather strong self-image or belief in that you're an introvert thinker, just stick to it. If you start from there, there are four types which can possibly match in Socionics. One per/from each quadra, that's it. Just pick the quadra. It's not that big of a deal, really.)

[Metaphor]

Type-aside, your solution to Theseus ship paradox further proves the notion abut that continuity and entity are the fundamental structures of concept on itself. In other words, as if you treat the clone of yours having the identity of you, this doesn't mean they are exactly the same by identity and therefore, they are similar but not different according to its entity. Furthermore, it is to be understood, using scientific lens, that identity doesn't exist as an object as such, but more as a form of named structure, or the one which is known as "identity" instead.

[MadaraZero]

I would say that the probability that I am correct is very high. The INTJ friend I've known for 10+ years and we both studied personality for a few years.

Not trying to relate this with personality, but I am manage my finances the best out of all my friends. And you are right my INFP friend makes a lot of impulsive purchases, figurine dolls that are very expensive for example.

[MadaraZero]

If you're unsure about Ni in the leading position, we can go back, and start again from the base of that you're an Introvert, a Thinker and from a Ni/Se quadra (Beta or Gamma). From this angle, there's two possibilities: Either LSI (Ti-Se / ISTj) from Beta or ILI (Ni-Te / INTp) from Gamma. LSI has strong Se, Si demonstrative and Te ignoring and it's one of the least intuitive types. Ideas or Extroverted Intuition is their PoLR/vulnerable spot. People of this type usually don't score high on Openness in Big 5 either. A simple way to decide between the two is to figure out where is your Fe, - In the PoLR/vulnerable position or in the dual-seeking position? You can read about the differences between the two on the Wiki. Just an addition to that: If your type was ILI and Fe was in the PoLR/vulnerable position, according to the idea of intertype relations, the type you would get along with the least supposed to be Fe leading, ESE in particular. If your type was LSI and Fe was in the suggestive/dual-seeking position, your ideal match would be Fe leading, EIE in particular. As I said in a previous post, you look more Fe PoLR than Fe seeking to me. But this is a workaround, you have to be sure about your leading function, since that is the most relevant and is the most defining part of a type.

For what it's worth: I have an ILI brother, and I picked up a few similarities between your behavior and his. The way you talked about your glasses in the Loom video made me chuckle, it reminded me of him so much.

Just a random question: Why did you pick up boxing?

Edit:
(p.s. Honestly, if you're doubting yourself because you hoped for a deeper truth, and you just feel something must be up because you don't sense that any of the answers would be perfect, you have to take it more easy. That deeper truth is not real. If you have a rather strong self-image or belief in that you're an introvert thinker, just stick to it. If you start from there, there are four types which can possibly match in Socionics. One per/from each quadra, that's it. Just pick the quadra. It's not that big of a deal, really.)

You are right, I just want to make sure I am not lying to myself and not playing mind games either hence why I momentarily value some external opinions about how others perceive myself.

If you mean that I dislike emotional people and generally bad with emotional situations or against group think or doing something because it is right for the group etc. Yes, I agree.

My intuition is definitely strong. But it is so difficult to know how strong. For example, suppose a questionnaire would ask me: Do you often get hunches about events and people that come out to be true? My answer would be yes. And that yes would probably contribute to the intuitive rating. However, then I ask myself. What does "often" mean. Once a week? Once a day? 5 times a day? 20 times a day? It often happens in specific situations where my mind just nudges me or automatically recognizes something is up or that a situation like this has played out before it is a preverbal process but if I concentrate I can probably trace it back to the initial piece of information and the trail it has left behind in my mental landscape arriving at that hunch.

Anyway, you are right about just having a strong identity that is definitely not a problem with me, living 28 years on this ear I Definitely know who I am and what I am about, yet I would find it difficult to place my self in a category in such a system. Although it was much easier with MBTI since it seems less complex.

Boxing question, I'll try to answer it quick since I have something todo: I've been doing boxing for a 8 months now. I picked it for the multiple benefits it provides psychologically and physically e.g. stamina = more energy = basically everything you do in life = good. Feeling strong and being able to protect myself = confidence etc. I have a perfect vision/ideal of what it would mean for me to be perfect as a man or human and being able to fight is part of it. In my earlier life I was too focused on my intellect and devouring books, chess and everything else intellectual. My vision for the perfect man was different, now it includes the physical. I think this encompasses it the best: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” — Thucydides

I have some youtube videos open talking about ILI type, planning to listen to them and see what my minds concocts with that info.

[MadaraZero]

Type-aside, your solution to Theseus ship paradox further proves the notion abut that continuity and entity are the fundamental structures of concept on itself. In other words, as if you treat the clone of yours having the identity of you, this doesn't mean they are exactly the same by identity and therefore, they are similar but not different according to its entity. Furthermore, it is to be understood, using scientific lens, that identity doesn't exist as an object as such, but more as a form of named structure, or the one which is known as "identity" instead.

I can't believe you actually read that. Yeah man, don't go to there or I'll go insane again haha.

[fjoerd]

You are right, I just want to make sure I am not lying to myself and not playing mind games either hence why I momentarily value some external opinions about how others perceive myself.

If you mean that I dislike emotional people and generally bad with emotional situations or against group think or doing something because it is right for the group etc. Yes, I agree.

My intuition is definitely strong. But it is so difficult to know how strong. For example, suppose a questionnaire would ask me: Do you often get hunches about events and people that come out to be true? My answer would be yes. And that yes would probably contribute to the intuitive rating. However, then I ask myself. What does "often" mean. Once a week? Once a day? 5 times a day? 20 times a day? It often happens in specific situations where my mind just nudges me or automatically recognizes something is up or that a situation like this has played out before it is a preverbal process but if I concentrate I can probably trace it back to the initial piece of information and the trail it has left behind in my mental landscape arriving at that hunch.

Anyway, you are right about just having a strong identity that is definitely not a problem with me, living 28 years on this ear I Definitely know who I am and what I am about, yet I would find it difficult to place my self in a category in such a system. Although it was much easier with MBTI since it seems less complex.

Boxing question, I'll try to answer it quick since I have something todo: I've been doing boxing for a 8 months now. I picked it for the multiple benefits it provides psychologically and physically e.g. stamina = more energy = basically everything you do in life = good. Feeling strong and being able to protect myself = confidence etc. I have a perfect vision/ideal of what it would mean for me to be perfect as a man or human and being able to fight is part of it. In my earlier life I was too focused on my intellect and devouring books, chess and everything else intellectual. My vision for the perfect man was different, now it includes the physical. I think this encompasses it the best: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” — Thucydides

I have some youtube videos open talking about ILI type, planning to listen to them and see what my minds concocts with that info.

My intuition is definitely strong. But it is so difficult to know how strong.

It is not about how strong it is relative to an external standard, it is about how much do you value it, trust it and are you confident in relying on it relative to your other elements/functions. In your particular case - is it 4D Ni over 1D Se (ILI) or 3D Se over 2D Ni (LSI)? Or: 4D Ni or 2D Ni? 1D Se or 3D Se? You can look up the dimensionality of functions on the Wiki, it can make it easier for you to differentiate between your stronger and weaker functions. Something to think about: This strong sense of confidence in, and intuitive knowledge of who you are and what are you about, vision, idealism, etc. are newfound things for you or have you always been thinking in terms like these? If you want to decide whether you're just playing mind games or not, answering this question to yourself might help.

[Renna]

I sense some LSI vibe. Didn’t see any clear sight of Te value.

Also, most INTJ mbti is LSI in socionic

[MadaraZero]

Hey man, I rely on it a lot since it is often accurate. And in fact seem to regret it a lot when I don't rely on it and I write about it in my self development journal. It often ends up to be something like "you knew x was likely to happen, yet you did y, listen more to intuition". I do this to make myself even more aware of it. And here again I get a hunch, someone is going to point out that doing this in fact shows that I am bad at intuition because I need a journal to make it better. If I were that good at it I wouldn't need a journal for it. But that is off, I use that journal for everything that needs improving ranging from my tone of voice to indeed also listening better to intuition.

Interestingly just a 1 minute ago I made another decision based on intuition, it was about what type of shower head I was going to sell in my ecom business. Don't get me wrong they are never baseless intuition, there is data and reasoning behind but rarely the reasoning can go that deep as to know with 100% certainty that something is going to work out. The reasoning raises my probability of being correct or not, or maybe another way to put it: the reasoning revs the engine of my intuition, but in the end I have to take a leap of faith. I can say with certainty that I put great value on intuition. Sometimes so much so that I doubt whether I am a dominant thinker at all since even reasoning itself i.e. lines of reasoning seems to appear in my head without any conscious effort.

"This strong sense of confidence in, and intuitive knowledge of who you are and what are you about, vision, idealism, etc. are newfound things for you or have you always been thinking in terms like these? If you want to decide whether you're just playing mind games or not, answering this question to yourself might help."

I believe since a young age I Was always focused on my future and what my ideal self would be. I would have idealistic vision of me working in the gaming industry. I would imagine all the games I would create, the characters, the world, the gameplay, the skills of characters in detail in my mind. That would be the idealistic part. But also at the same time a very concrete sense of what that would entail in practical reality which was me sitting behind a screen. That would be my work. So after a year or so chasing this goal I decided to drop it since I didn't want to live like that. I still love to play around with my imagination when I get the chance, but life has been so busy and dry since the responsibilities of adulthood have taken over. The thing is I can't answer that question because since I was very young I never did think in any kind of "term" or "word". To give an example only around the age of 21 I first learned what the word "subjective" means, it was conceptually the most difficult word I ever learned at that time after that it snowballed into my current version of general intellectual understanding. But constantly imagining my future and believing that everything is possible?
Definitely!

Edit the next day:
I've done some more thinking, I definitely have Ne, it is in my opinion the function I recognize the strongest upon observing my behavior and mental activity. Ne based on the description I have read on this website from different types like INTj and ENTp. It isn't like I am bad at predicting events and trends which is a corner stone of Ni I think it is that I just don't care that much about it, although the implications of AI for the future has been a topic of interest. I do like to fantasize about the future but then on a much larger scale and more sci-fi as in having nano suits that are able to 3D print everything form the atomic level giving us the ability to be our own gods and creators of world and have unlimited acces to space exploration and even terraforming planets.

Someone in a video remarked how having Ne can lead to seeing multiple interpretations of a sentence somebody says to you when a communicating. I struggle with this a lot. It is never clear to me what people really mean when they use a certain sentence unless they are extremely specific about it. I end up asking a lot of questions.

[Renna]

Some differences, mainly between Ij vs Ip in general

Ij has high energy than Ip (since Ip consider as the group that has the lowest energy level). An so LSI is more goal oriented and more discipline than ILI on average

LSI is Ti lead, so their natural state is thinking and analysing. ILI is Ni lead, so their natural state is observing the pattern of the event around them. So LSI as a J lead are quick and confident in making decisions more than ILI (because observation can be slow and it also need to filter by T function later)

LSI has 3D Se, they’re like trying to change thing/taking challenges directly, take positions that has more responsibilities. ILI 1D Se and Fe polr, usually try to stay away the spotlight, prefer to be side-kick and being lead by someone has higher Se, and so change things in a more indirect way

[Lycantrope]

ILE

[fjoerd]

Some differences, mainly between Ij vs Ip in general

Ij has high energy than Ip (since Ip consider as the group that has the lowest energy level). An so LSI is more goal oriented and more discipline than ILI on average

LSI is Ti lead, so their natural state is thinking and analysing. ILI is Ni lead, so their natural state is observing the pattern of the event around them. So LSI as a J lead are quick and confident in making decisions more than ILI (because observation can be slow and it also need to filter by T function later)

LSI has 3D Se, they’re like trying to change thing/taking challenges directly, take positions that has more responsibilities. ILI 1D Se and Fe polr, usually try to stay away the spotlight, prefer to be side-kick and being lead by someone has higher Se, and so change things in a more indirect way

I don't follow this reasoning at all, but just for the sake of it: How is thinking faster than intuition or thinking without thinking as Jung put it? How is someone with a suggestive Fe less likely to be lead than someone with a Se suggestive? If we are generalizing like this, actually ILI can be the most individualistic of all the types. It has the intuitive long-term vision and has the Te to realize it on its own, a basic inner moral compass (Fi activating), and couldn't care less about what other people think (Fe PoLR).

[MadaraZero]

Some differences, mainly between Ij vs Ip in general

Ij has high energy than Ip (since Ip consider as the group that has the lowest energy level). An so LSI is more goal oriented and more discipline than ILI on average

LSI is Ti lead, so their natural state is thinking and analysing. ILI is Ni lead, so their natural state is observing the pattern of the event around them. So LSI as a J lead are quick and confident in making decisions more than ILI (because observation can be slow and it also need to filter by T function later)

LSI has 3D Se, they’re like trying to change thing/taking challenges directly, take positions that has more responsibilities. ILI 1D Se and Fe polr, usually try to stay away the spotlight, prefer to be side-kick and being lead by someone has higher Se, and so change things in a more indirect way

I relate more to the ILI parts. I have watched a few videos on ILI and LII, could relate with both, the language is used sometimes subjective to the speaker or subjective to the community of the speaker which is probably the typology community. I am going to watch some LSI videos soon just to make sure.

[MadaraZero]

I don't follow this reasoning at all, but just for the sake of it: How is thinking faster than intuition or thinking without thinking as Jung put it? How is someone with a suggestive Fe less likely to be lead than someone with a Se suggestive? If we are generalizing like this, actually ILI can be the most individualistic of all the types. It has the intuitive long-term vision and has the Te to realize it on its own, a basic inner moral compass (Fi activating), and couldn't care less about what other people think (Fe PoLR).

You are right intuition is much faster. From my experience MBTI INTJs tend to make judgements rather fast based on their hunch. But not sure about actions, they may take longer to act, but once they decide to act they go at it hard. There is even a book about thinking fast and thinking slow and it explains how thinking fast relies heavily on past data and experiences which is basically intuition and requires less energy for the brain to use.

[MadaraZero]

ILE

Need to check some videos on this type and see if I relate.

[Renna]

I don't follow this reasoning at all, but just for the sake of it: How is thinking faster than intuition or thinking without thinking as Jung put it? How is someone with a suggestive Fe less likely to be lead than someone with a Se suggestive? If we are generalizing like this, actually ILI can be the most individualistic of all the types. It has the intuitive long-term vision and has the Te to realize it on its own, a basic inner moral compass (Fi activating), and couldn't care less about what other people think (Fe PoLR).

I will continue to generalize thing a little bit ~

Fe polr -> suck at unfamiliar environment with many people, lack ability to influence group’s mood/morales. And don’t want to improve this weakness overtime, since it’s polr. Take Mark Zuckerberg as an example of an ILI “leader” and how everyone make fun of him as “alien”, “robot” but in truth this guy is just fucking awkward.

Polr is not strength, it’s a weakness.

Judging function (T or F) is the function that decide right/wrong, value, goal bla bla. Ni is a perceiving function, it get the pattern behind the events that happened, but it on itself doesn’t decide a vision/a goal or how to do with the information it got. Type with T or F function first class decide faster because they are quick to judge the information they get and decide how they use it.

In the mind of the T/F lead type, everything has to be make sense, either in logic side or ethic side, their goal also has to be clear, so it’s why they are call rational type, as opposed to irrational N/S lead.

About Se, I don’t want to use the meme “Se is power”, but type with high Se are less afraid of physical confrontations, fighting or using force/pressure to get what they want. They also very aware of what happened around them (physically), so they are more confident whatever the environment they are in (compare to N type). This make some trait of a leader. It’s stereotype, but SEE is call The Politician and SLE is call Field Marshal for a reason.

So ILI are not good at dealing with people (group), also not very good dealing with the physical world (but do want to improve). That’s why ILI has their dual - SEE, a type that extremely good at dealing with people and the physical world. I didn’t mean ILI prefer to be lead all the time, but if they join an organization, they probably prefer positions that has less to do with people since it stressed them, so if you don’t want to take the lead, other people will lead you.

ILI in socionic is a very stereotype scholar/scientist type, and they even get call “The Critic”

[fjoerd]

I will continue to generalize thing a little bit ~

Fe polr -> suck at unfamiliar environment with many people, lack ability to influence group’s mood/morales. And don’t want to improve this weakness overtime, since it’s polr. Take Mark Zuckerberg as an example of an ILI “leader” and how everyone make fun of him as “alien”, “robot” but in truth this guy is just fucking awkward.

Polr is not strength, it’s a weakness.

Judging function (T or F) is the function that decide right/wrong, value, goal bla bla. Ni is a perceiving function, it get the pattern behind the events that happened, but it on itself doesn’t decide a vision/a goal or how to do with the information it got. Type with T or F function first class decide faster because they are quick to judge the information they get and decide how they use it.

In the mind of the T/F lead type, everything has to be make sense, either in logic side or ethic side, their goal also has to be clear, so it’s why they are call rational type, as opposed to irrational N/S lead.

About Se, I don’t want to use the meme “Se is power”, but type with high Se are less afraid of physical confrontations, fighting or using force/pressure to get what they want. They also very aware of what happened around them (physically), so they are more confident whatever the environment they are in (compare to N type). This make some trait of a leader. It’s stereotype, but SEE is call The Politician and SLE is call Field Marshal for a reason.

So ILI are not good at dealing with people (group), also not very good dealing with the physical world (but do want to improve). That’s why ILI has their dual - SEE, a type that extremely good at dealing with people and the physical world. I didn’t mean ILI prefer to be lead all the time, but if they join an organization, they probably prefer positions that has less to do with people since it stressed them, so if you don’t want to take the lead, other people will lead you.

ILI in socionic is a very stereotype scholar/scientist type, and they even get call “The Critic”

I can see your point, I could even agree with it, but I just see it differently. If we assume his type is indeed ILI, Mark surely isn't lead by anyone, if anything, he changed how people interact with each other on a whole planet. People can call him a robot all they want, but it's Mark who exploits these people more, and not the other way around, and his 1D Se doesn't seem to interfere with his success all that much, not even when he's constantly under pressure by mainstream media and even nation governments. I didn't say Fe PoLR is a strength, I just argued how Fe PoLR can possibly influence the character of a person of this type. ILIs are very prone to corner themselves in their minds and believe the odds are stacked or even the whole world is against them when they experience ridicule (Fe PoLR) and pushback (Se), but they still cannot let go of their Ni since it's their base and their baby Fi is gonna justify whatever Te intends to do.

[Renna]

Yeah… but still, Mark is exceptional that’s his strong aspects give him enough resources that overshadow all of his other weaknesses. Just give him as an example of how ILI look like when they are the one in charge, normal people will be reluctant with all the heat they gonna deal with, especially when they don’t have enough talent and resources.

[fjoerd]

Yeah… but still, Mark is exceptional that’s his strong aspects give him enough resources that overshadow all of his other weaknesses. Just give him as an example of how ILI look like when they are the one in charge, normal people will be reluctant with all the heat they gonna deal with, especially when they don’t have enough talent and resources.

A difference I see between the potential susceptibility of LSI and ILI is this:


LSI's way of cope is to come up with a "recipe for life" with their base function that makes logical sense to the subject (Ti) and adjust it only when the type is in some way or another convinced, doing so would be factually beneficial (Se creative). However their Ne PoLR + baby Ni renders them rather rigid: They shoot down good and bad ideas irrespectibly since they're slow at differentiating between good and bad opportunities, picking good ones, discarding wrong ones - if the type becomes unhealthy, it remains stuck in its ways and condemns itself to stagnation. If the situation becomes unbearable, their barely conscious, uncontrolled and underdeveloped Fe will seek out for the wrong type of FeNi guidance, and this can be the tragedy of the type - its mind beind trapped within the ideas and under the influence of a life coach, cult leader, socionist, etc.


ILI's way of cope is to come up with a "vision for life" based on the intuitive knowledge of the self and making predictions about the future (Ni), and adjust this vision only if the type is in some way or another convinced, the plan was unrealistic and not practical (Te creative). However, contrary to the LSI, the ILI has strong Ne, which can be put to good use if such a situation arises. The ILI's tragedy is different: Experiencing being openly ridiculed for who they are (Fe PoLR + poorly understood and utilized Si Role can result in erratic behavior) paired with 2D black/white moral judgments (Fi) throws this type out of balance, and if the type becomes unhealthy, it can withdraw from society. If the situation becomes unbearable, the type's barely conscious, uncontrolled and underdeveloped Se will seek out for SeFi guidance, and in a worst-case scenario its tragedy being running right into the arms of a bit too literal conqueror, femme fatale, etc. and its whole existence becoming the puppet of someone else.

[Fractals]

Okay I'm not the best typer as I don't know my own type for certain. You do remind me of certain people in my life and they are Gamma NTs. I have to say I did not watch all your video, but the way you describe your work very technically like as if you are reading from your work pamphlet, sound like this LIE I have met. He is very extroverted though and can talk and interrupt you. I have never met anyone else that talks this way but the LIE I know. If you are introverted, if you know about yourself at least with that, you could be ILI. The way you talk about different subjects/topics can be academic, but then you relate it to yourself in a personal way sounds very much like ILI friend I have. She's always cooking, into her intellectual interests, and shows them to people like she is wearing these giants like a badge. She's very aesthetic in her expression, caring about how she appears, kinda gothic, liking the dark things in life. But very lonely, has trouble keeping boundaries with people but likes to come off as strong person. Anyway, take from this what you will. There was a post here you wrote that sounded very Ni too. The way you intonation is expressed sounds Te. I would say ILI>LIE.

[Metaphor]

I can't believe you actually read that. Yeah man, don't go to there or I'll go insane again haha.

Yeah, I was so bored that I read that pdf just to see your thought process. But haha, alright. Anyway, have you ever considered LIE for yourself?
Just wondering but if such presumption to be true, you did utilize both Te and Ne in your document about Theseus ship paradox instead of Ti.

[Metaphor]

Also, most INTJ mbti is LSI in socionic

I don't see how this can hold any water in every single existence on universe.

[Renna]

I don't see how this can hold any water in every single existence on universe.

Don’t mind me. I was just talking shit lol.