Optimism, Pessimism, and Quadra Values

[Metamorph]

I always find it odd that, among the many things which are quadra values, positivism and negativism are not quadra values. If I ever see anyone running around with pure inspirational kitsch "Esther Hicks-style" (thanks @Shazaam) I tend to be repulsed. Surely this is the kind of thing that should be a quadra value. Now, positivism and negativism are not quite the same as optimism and pessimism, but it seems to somewhat correlate. What would be more important for determining true naïve manic optimism, traumatized depressive pessimism, and the healthier versions of the two? I often think: probably only what's within a person. As much as people don't want to admit it, this is probably the real defining line between the "good guys" and "bad guys" of life. Life is not something for entertainment and amusement and once you realize that you see how much more valuable it really is.

[Bethanyclaire]

All I know is that ‘manic’, ‘optimistic’ guys who laugh too much are the guys who I sometimes think I like but end up really disliking. Something 6ish about them to my E9. My anxiety is a lot more under the surface. I even have a hard time with my current IEE best mate because she is quite high strung. I like it- she is vivacious and we can discuss our emotions in depth and she is nice/kind but I have to walk away sometimes because I start to feel stressed and can’t really explain why. (It’s not simply due to ITR). I think maybe these people are too SFish for me? Anyway just some random thoughts because I like this optimism/pessimism topic..

[Tallmo]

This has imo more to do with base/inferior(suggestive). The introvert can be quite negative about the external world, is suspicious, he doesnt trust it, or is naive (unconscious extraversion), and the extravert is not at home in his inner world (unconscious introversion).

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It's complicated and it depends. People who pretend we still live in medival times when we don't are annoying, people who are too optimistic and get hurt because of it are also cringe. People who are perfectly balanced in the middle are sadly, also annoying - but I would say it's what I prefer the best but idk. I think it's really connected to a person's environment. Sometimes people want to be inspired even though they know it's not real, sometimes people want to be spooked out and scared and see how low somebody go for a kind of masochistic sense of entertainment. It's why I think when we die, it is the ultimate equalizer. It's not good or bad it just is. People try to run away from this death and nihilsm by so many things but it always catches up to us.

It's just so complicated because each of us is often too negative in ways that we are too hopeful and ideal as well. I've seen other IEIs be like this a lot, and NF/SFs in general so idk. I've seen many str8 man logical types say things that seem way too naive and too good to be true/overly optimistic, but they genuinely believe in them. It's just complicated, but it's interesting. =)

[Metaphor]

Are you talking about world-view instead? If so then suppose that world-rejecting (NiSe) has a negative value, while world-accepting has a positive value (SiNe) this implies that whether it becomes optimism or pessimism depends on the way it objects and subjects material/people, which implies that TiFe has a positive value while TeFi is negative. However, this might not sound as simple because positivist/negativist dichotomies aren't really about optimistic vs pessimistic - it's beyond to this concept already. But from what I've understood so far, this dichotomy is neither about good nor bad, but rather related to mindset or in other words, the thought process on itself. LIE is a positivist due to realism, for example.

[Bethanyclaire]

I think deltas become anxious around me..maybe alphas too. And I think I get depressed around deltas..and maybe alphas too. Si associated with anxiety, ni with depression? However I feel more anxious than depressed and I think of my IEE besties as more depressed than anxious.

Delta/alpha, outwardly anxious, inwardly depressed

Beta/ gamma, outwardly depressed, inwardly anxious

[adage]

I guess we'd be more mistrustful, therefore pessimistic, of low dimentionality functions and more confident, therefore more optimistic, of high dimentionality functions.

I also think upbringing has a role to play in this, either messing the cards or making a person more overall optimistic or pessimistic.

Another thing is people who strike me as either optimistic or pessimistic tend to look nuts and not trustworthy to me. I guess I'd suggest people to aim for a balanced outlook, i.e. don't paint trash gold and welcome blessings.