"MAGA Communism"

[End]

...Truth demands not trying to take action when you know you'll fail. The Bible says that if you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can tell mountains to move and they will move, not if you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can shout at mountains like a maniac and watch them still sit there unmoving but people should admire you anyway for your "convictions" and "martyrdom." You need to have a reasonable plan.

And the mech plan is good in theory, but what's the point of it? The innocent child in Omelas is a metaphor for Jesus and is literally based on Dostoevsky. You might as well plan to take a time machine to ancient Rome and try to rip Jesus off the cross in the name of Christianity. If you wouldn't condemn a child for the sake of Omelas, why would you tell Jesus to die on the cross so you can sin? And if God wanted it, what could you do about it? Even the mech plan isn't reasonable if you see that as God's will, any more than I could plan on taking a time machine to rip Jesus off the cross.

Depends on how one would define "failure". A martyr's death often accomplishes nothing in the moment yet lays the groundwork for successful revolutions and societal change decades down the line.

Since we're going whole spoiler mode now the metaphor/allegory suffers from a purely materialistic understanding of the world. To one who can or will only allow themselves to view the world in a materialistic lense your point makes sense.

I am, however, not a trained theologian and thus risk screwing up in a big way and thus promulgating heresy if I try to fully answer why saving the innocent child doesn't actually correlate to Jesus upon the Cross. However, there is one point I can make that I know isn't wrong. See, our lord didn't die upon the cross to "allow" us to sin. Rather, it was God fulfilling his covenant with us. A covenant he, in a most idiotic of deals as any mortal human would understand it, assumed full and total responsibility for. We would get all the benefits no matter if we fulfilled our end or not. If we broke it, than we'd still get the benefits and God would suffer in a most severe way. Look up what a "covenant" meant to people of the ancient world and you'll understand really hard and fast why God taking full and sole responsibility (at least in regard to the consequences) for its breaking was such a big deal.

However, that isn't to say we're all off the hook because of Christ. No. Now we're all on the hook to do as Christ did. His sacrifice was a perfect example of Charity. Charity, properly understood, isn't giving money to poor kids in Africa. It's to wish the best for others no matter what out of our love for God. To love him as he loved us.

He has fulfilled his end of that rather one-sided bargain as an example for us all. He showed us all how much he loved us at Calvary. He is mercy and love, but he is also justice. Justice demanded Calvary, and it now likewise binds us to follow his example.

The Innocent Child at the heart of Omelas is, like many things and arguments that attempt to use Christian logic and theology against the faithful, a demonic subversion/inversion of the truth. They in actuality suffered needlessly. Those who walk away get and understand that and their revulsion about that fact is what causes them to walk away but, like I said, they wouldn't just walk away if we want to actually make them human. Indeed, it would be God's will to build the Mechs and stomp this nicer and somewhat more sympathetic equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrah flat as a pancake as you used all the other weapon systems because unlike some puritain's understanding of things it's actually OK to have fun while you do the right thing!

I mean, if you got a 140mm main gun, flamethrowers, missile packs no doubt, rapid fire recoilless rifle systems, 50-cals, and whatever else you tacked on just for giggles why not use em'?

Now, for a recommendation of a story/series that gets this kind of thing so right it hurts. If you haven't heard of Yasuhiro Nightow and his Magnum Opus "Trigun" I'd give it a gander with this little intellectual primer. It's a deeply Catholic work on the same level Lord of the Rings was. Like the latter you don't have to be familiar with that tradition to enjoy it but if you are holy friggin' hell do you see it hard. I don't wanna spoil the scene I'm thinking of but you'll know it when you see it...

Vash would've tried to save the child. He'd not relish having to murder the inhabitants of Omelas to do so but if it came down to it he'd fire his gun with the full intent to kill if need be. Wouldn't like it, would wish there was another way and hell probably pray the bullets didn't hit anything vital but if that's what it took to save the kid than that's what it'd take. Up to and including using the... well, that's another major spoiler but if you know you know and yeah that'd be on the table.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It naturally feels pitiable and sad (like poptart said) - but at least they realize their own lifestyle would naturally be helped more via communism than capitalism anyway. Their opponents have been pointing to them for years that extreme right-wing views bring about a very communist system where there's one dictator and the rest of the people are poor and downtrodden. It's like worshipping and liking Trump so much you don't care that he's so much wealthier than u and ur a smelly blue collar worker or whatever- in fact the opposite, you embrace that and even look forward to him being richer and you working even harder for Christ. I of course tend to think differently but it also meshes well with strong religious views too I think. "It's okay that I'm dirty because my God/Trump is so clean. Praise!" And 'sjws', left-wing notions of equality would naturally be a threat to that way of thinking.

[Metamorph]

It naturally feels pitiable and sad (like poptart said) - but at least they realize their own lifestyle would naturally be helped more via communism than capitalism anyway. Their opponents have been pointing to them for years that extreme right-wing views bring about a very communist system where there's one dictator and the rest of the people are poor and downtrodden. It's like worshipping and liking Trump so much you don't care that he's so much wealthier than u and ur a smelly blue collar worker or whatever- in fact the opposite, you embrace that and even look forward to him being richer and you working even harder for Christ. I of course tend to think differently but it also meshes well with strong religious views too I think. "It's okay that I'm dirty because my God/Trump is so clean. Praise!" And 'sjws', left-wing notions of equality would naturally be a threat to that way of thinking.

Communism is an ideology, but all ideologies come from worldviews... Weltanschauungen, to sound pretentious. Before anyone consciously formulates an ideology, they unconsciously hold a worldview. Worldview is like the id of ideology. People who were never communist can have communist views, people who were never Christian can have Christian views, people who were never Satanic can have Satanic views, people who were never Buddhist can have Buddhist views, people who were never Jewish can have Jewish views, people who were never Muslim can have Muslim views, people who were never Randroids can have Randroid views, and so on. In many cases, unconsciously holding views can be good enough to effectively be whatever something is. Anyone can be a communist or follow what's called the Noahide laws without having the faintest clue, or even worship someone like Satan or Jesus without really thinking much about it consciously, but no one can be a Marxist or a Jew without going through the process of formally learning an entire system, which is much easier in the case of Marxism than Judaism. Even Marxism and Judaism only appeal to specific kinds of people with specific psychological states in the first place, however.

Additionally, I think most people's idea of worship involves a certain amount of narcissism. Identifying with someone besides yourself is an often-forgotten characteristic of narcissism, narcissistic projection. Narcissus is the guy who fell in love with his own reflection and turned into a flower, which is why there's the narcissus flower usually identified as a daffodil... narcissistic projection is such a forgotten aspect, but very useful to remember, because then you can make a lot more sense of narcissistic behavior. I think it also ties into Nietzschean ressentiment: "I'm going to hurt you so I feel better about the fact at least I'm not you." Identify with the superior, hurt the inferior, and be horrifically welded into whatever abominable social organism you're a part of like some kind of H. R. Giger hellscape. Many things in the world run on this dynamic.

[godslave]

Additionally, I think most people's idea of worship involves a certain amount of narcissism. Identifying with someone besides yourself is an often-forgotten characteristic of narcissism, narcissistic projection. Narcissus is the guy who fell in love with his own reflection and turned into a flower, which is why there's the narcissus flower usually identified as a daffodil... narcissistic projection is such a forgotten aspect, but very useful to remember, because then you can make a lot more sense of narcissistic behavior. I think it also ties into Nietzschean ressentiment: "I'm going to hurt you so I feel better about the fact at least I'm not you." Identify with the superior, hurt the inferior, and be horrifically welded into whatever abominable social organism you're a part of like some kind of H. R. Giger hellscape. Many things in the world run on this dynamic.

Interesting. I think that construct depends on which facet of the deity its worshiper is counting on. There is the idea of singing or whistling joyful tunes to exorcise fear. I have also contemplated the Idea of Cain's eye being an allegorical figure of submission. To be constantly aware of that eye upon oneself and its judgement is creating one's own prison, the more you know your God and its will the more you develop some kind of stockholm syndrome relationship with it, it's a narcissistic grip from within. I think that what we need the most from our Gods is not necessarily protection (that seems pretty commun) but it also depends on our self-esteem and worldview. The Gods have always been archetypes of exaggerated human traits of characters and temperaments. All pantheons have their leaders and I guess natural selection applies even to Gods. In the end there can be only one !

 

[Metamorph]

Interesting. I think that construct depends on which facet of the deity its worshiper is counting on. There is the idea of singing or whistling joyful tunes to exorcise fear. I have also contemplated the Idea of Cain's eye being an allegorical figure of submission. To be constantly aware of that eye upon oneself and its judgement is creating one's own prison, the more you know your God and its will the more you develop some kind of stockholm syndrome relationship with it, it's a narcissistic grip from within. I think that what we need the most from our Gods is not necessarily protection (that seems pretty commun) but it also depends on our self-esteem and worldview. The Gods have always been archetypes of exaggerated human traits of characters and temperaments. All pantheons have their leaders and I guess natural selection applies even to Gods. In the end there can be only one !

I think this is partially true, however, what I really notice is that almost all gods relate to nature worship and aspects of nature despite also tending to act similar to humans. I think nature worship is the whole problem. Humans are supposed to be dominant over nature, but instead humans start worshipping nature which is an inversion. If you believe a particular religious story, it's the case that nature is trying to get humans to worship it because it's jealous. Even disregarding that story, it's clearly an inappropriate inversion for humans to worship nature when humans really can conquer nature and simply choose not to because they engage in worshipping it instead. One myth which I think propagates nature-worship is this fear of living in a technological dystopia and the idea that all scientific knowledge is inherently unappealing, but to me this seems like a confusion of science with sorcery. Science is simply a way of understanding things, and there's just as much if not far more than can be done simply with proper understanding than with all the ugly industrial machinery people think is the alternative to nature-worship. This is part of why I made my title "Cybernetic organism." People think cybernetics means robotic computer things and a cybernetic organism or "cyborg" is a half-human half-robot, but that's not the case. The theory of socionics which this site is based on is based on cybernetics. Knowledge of cybernetic ideas like socionics integrated into my mind and used by me in practice are my cybernetic technology, not robotic parts. You can use psychology and sociology and anthropology to understand people, you can use biology and medicine to improve your health, you can use mathematics to do calculations and logic in your head instead of needing a machine to do it, you can use techniques like "methods of loci" to remember anything, you can survive the cold like Wim Hof and run barefoot (or with minimal shoes to avoid tapeworms) like Kenyan runners. Often I empathize with the Amish, who do use technology, but only what they can make themselves, which now includes actual cars and not only horses and buggies like people expect. Real mastery over nature means you can produce results without having to depend so much on materials, and being able to make your own car is pretty impressive on that scale. Arthur C. Clarke (also author of Childhood's End, what I think of as encapsulating his actual philosophy depsite the disclaimer at the beginning, among his more well-known works) thought any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, but I think the most advanced technology of all utterly humiliates magic and puts it to shame. Who wants to undergo the degradation of waving your hands and blowing on knots to accomplish things when you can accomplish things without such fanfare and full internal comprehension?

I see Marxist-style communism as essentially being a form of nature worship. It's all about trying to live as an animal in a state of physical comfort and then dying while rejecting the intellect and in practice, the line between communism and pagan movements is extremely blurred. Wurmbrandt made an interesting case for Marx worshipping Satan that doesn't rely on putting down the entire Western canon or intellectualism as many evangelical types are wont to do, and it's almost impossible to distinguish between the various communist revolutions, the Haitian revolution that invoked the voodoo gods, Cuban Santería, and North Korean Juche where the dear leader is quite literally deified. Even as people think of Mr. Hilter as a wizard, people forget how truly bizarre some of the Soviets' ideas were due to the whole "Soviet Realist" and "scientific materialism" things.

[godslave]

I think this is partially true, however, what I really notice is that almost all gods relate to nature worship and aspects of nature despite also tending to act similar to humans. I think nature worship is the whole problem. Humans are supposed to be dominant over nature, but instead humans start worshipping nature which is an inversion. If you believe a particular religious story, it's the case that nature is trying to get humans to worship it because it's jealous. Even disregarding that story, it's clearly an inappropriate inversion for humans to worship nature when humans really can conquer nature and simply choose not to because they engage in worshipping it instead. One myth which I think propagates nature-worship is this fear of living in a technological dystopia and the idea that all scientific knowledge is inherently unappealing, but to me this seems like a confusion of science with sorcery. Science is simply a way of understanding things, and there's just as much if not far more than can be done simply with proper understanding than with all the ugly industrial machinery people think is the alternative to nature-worship. This is part of why I made my title "Cybernetic organism." People think cybernetics means robotic computer things and a cybernetic organism or "cyborg" is a half-human half-robot, but that's not the case. The theory of socionics which this site is based on is based on cybernetics. Knowledge of cybernetic ideas like socionics integrated into my mind and used by me in practice are my cybernetic technology, not robotic parts.

Agree for the most part. The conquest and mastery of the environment is part of the human condition. Sapiens have been (re)engineered in part under the influence of the environment. Naturally humans became the dominant species on this earth because its perfect adaptation and mastery of its living conditions. Now, every generation comes with its fear of change. Conformism and reactionary thinking ( The good old days, it was better back then) is part of the human condition. Worshiping nature and esp green thinking is already a high level of sophistication, it's ideological and not defined by natural principals. Green thinking is an intellectual movement infiltrating all kind of political sphere and powerful lobbies. The cause is just and comes from good feelings but it's like a Noah's ark imho in the sense that it's not for everybody, it's not achievable on real human population scale. A lot of it is therefore an Utopian conception of an Ideal world according to some. It is absolutely possible to reconcile green thinking if and only if the population within the Eco-society is controlled in order to keep it in symbioses with the biotope. This implies drastic policies (that reminds me " Logon's Run" for some reasons) in order to prevent otherwise natural expansions because that's what life does it expands. Technology is also there to solve global problems of that nature realistically. Anyway, sorry for the rambling and note that I don't know what I'm talking about !