Is it possible to be neurotypical and deeply isolated?

[Quinoa]

@Averroes

Hey, bro. I actually peaked at this forum for the first time in like a year, saw your post, and decided to create an account again. I'm an oldie and was active more years ago. I read through this entire thread. I want to share a few of my thoughts for you, hope these help:

Regarding your initial question, is it possible to be neurotypical and 'deeply isolated', I think you mean 'deeply isolated' as either alone or having few to no friends or subpar social skills - then yes, of course it's possible. The good news is you can improve your social skills and datability, which I'll get to later.

Regarding your question/concern as to whether you are Aspergers/autistic/on the spectrum - I don't know, go see a licensed professional therapist or psychologist. Nobody here on this forum can diagnose that through the internet. Just see a licensed professional and see what they think.

Am I right to interpret your main concern though is attracting fun women to date? By your post here:

You stormed off a date and it propelled you to wonder if you are autistic. What does being autistic mean to you?

it means not being able to attract the fun, relatively well adjusted women that I like. I dated someone who was similar to me and was so unfulfilled and put off by her vibe towards the end that I had to break it off.

I like women that are sensual, vivacious, dynamic, can take a joke, etc. but they want nothing to do with autistic men

If so, then I interpret your question & concern as not so much diagnosing your neurotypicalness, but as a question for dating advice.

From reading about how the date went, and through all of the text messages you shared, it seems the primary issue is your lack of self-confidence. The good news is that you can improve this and work on it and get better over time, regardless of whether you are neuro-atypical or not, and regardless of whether you are behind in social skills or not. The bad news is that it seems you pretty much blew it already with this girl, ruined your chances of dating her, and will have to work on self-improvement for other girls in the future.

Regarding my judgments of the date and both your behavior and her behavior:

It seems you were charming enough and funny enough and cool enough through text messages to score a date with her in the first place. That's very good! Many people who are autistic have severe trouble with this part, even getting a date in the first place.

You also talked in this thread about other dates you've been on, and seem to have some level of dating experience, even if they haven't gone as well as you wanted. I also observed that you seem to have pretty good awareness for social expectations by this comment:

only because I brought it up/kind of fished for it

when referring to what she thought of your physical attractiveness.

These things make me question whether or not you actually are autistic, since you seem to display keen social awareness at times.

(also women value physical attractiveness less than men do, and she already said you are attractive, so that wasn't the issue.)

Now regarding her asking if you were on the spectrum, and you storming out. That shows a lack of self-confidence and kind of ruined any chances of sex or dating with her in the immediate future. Maybe after a year or something, if she sees your having changed and improved and become way more confident, it might happen. But in my opinion, you should abandon the idea of dating her and move on.

Now, why do you think her comment affected you so deeply? Were you more anxious on the date with her than you had been on other dates, or did you consider her more attractive than other girls you had been on dates with? Did it affect you because you partially wondered if it was true, and this is what caused the extreme embarrassment? Or did it affect you deeply for some other reason?

Women tease on dates and test men all the time lol. Once you have developed your self-confidence and are comfortable in your own skin and comfortable with your own weaknesses and can tease them back, then you can have fun. So what if you are a bit socially awkward? You're fun enough and likable enough for women to be interested in you, and you can fend for yourself and survive in this life, so screw what this girl thinks. That's a bit of the attitude you must have. If she asks if you are on the spectrum, you can joke and say something like, 'Yeah, the spectrum of awesomeness!' with a big, cheesy smile. Or come up with your own reply.

May I also ask, how old are you? I get the impression you are young, if you are trying to find your identity, and trying to have success with dating lol. Don't worry youngin haha, all of that comes with time. And those are common problems for young people.

Regarding her - she may have unintentionally come across rude by asking that question and might feel guilty for it. But I think she is being nice by continuing to interact with you. Perhaps too nice, actually, is my honest opinion. May I ask, what is her age? She also gives me the impression of being young, because she already said she 'hopes to stay friends' with you, and put you in the friendzone after you stormed out, and yet she agreed to hang out with you a 2nd time. So what is the purpose of meeting again? You both are looking for love, and you are hoping for a 2nd chance with her, and she is hoping to not damage you by what she said and is hoping to not feel guilty for making you so upset. But I feel more experienced daters would just both mutually agree it wasn't a great 1st date, and move on, and each of you would try your chances with another person, and not waste time.

Regarding November 5th - Yes, I believe if you didn't clearly ask her out again on a "date", that she might have thought you were just hanging out together again as strictly friends. If you were more direct and said it's a date, then she might have said 'no' from the start, to not waste time.

Part of me thinks you didn't say it was a "date", though, because you're still afraid of being rejected by her.

next time if you sense it's awkward but you like her and want to keep her- then learn how to tease her playfully. This just creates chemistry. Don't be too much of a hurtful ass, but be str8 and macho and confident and outgoing.

I agree with your post, and I want to addon to what you said - I don't think it's enough to just tell him to 'be' straight and macho, without giving some advice for how to get there:

Averroes, how much do you go out with friends, other guy buddies? How much in-person socialization do you have? I'm concerned it's not much when you say you feel "isolated". Have other friends ever teased you for being awkward, and how did you react or overcome their teasing?

Start talking with people more. All people, both guys and girls. Start flirting with girls more, whether you find them beautiful or unattractive. Observe your own body language when you are talking with a beautiful girl, and then observe your body language when you are talking to an unattractive girl. Notice how you are more relaxed with the unattractive one, if you don't want anything from her. Start to duplicate that body language with attractive girls, and notice how much more confident you will begin to feel over time.

Work on yourself, your career. Work on your physical strength, exercise. Try to make more money, buy nicer clothes. Try to attend social events more with other people and get more practice with small talk and chit chat.

These are some things you can actually DO to improve your ability to attract fun, "sensual, vivacious, dynamic" women that you want. You will improve over time as a person, have more interesting things to talk about, and become more attractive yourself, and then these women will naturally want to be around YOU more as well.

Will it take time? Yes. Will you be able to do it all in enough time to change this one girl's mind? No. Sorry for the harsh truth, but that's what I think. But the good news is, in the long run, you can always increase your attractiveness so much and have many more options with girls, that you won't be hurt or worried anymore with what this one girl thinks of you.

Let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck, bro.

[Metamorph]

Well, there are no neurotypicals. It is just a scam state but you can certainly be more neuroatypical than most.

Curios thing is that very neuroatypical can be extremely connected - that's also one manifestation of atypicality.

I was coming here to say this.

Let's imagine that we have two people and we are going to brain swap them. They have typical brains so nothing should happen, right? Nope. They wake up and find that their minds are in each others' bodies because they have been brain swapped. That is like a horror or science fiction scenario, not a typical one. Therefore, there's no such thing as neurotypicality and I dare anyone who believes in it to get a brain transplant. Surely, nothing will happen if they do.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

The bad news is that it seems you pretty much blew it already with this girl, ruined your chances of dating her

Welcome back. I stopped reading your post at the quoted part because I seem to be put off by hard limits in human relations. This doesn't mean that I am all about hopeful attitudes. Hope is a weird thing in itself anyway. Takes away naturalness or something.

[Quinoa]

Welcome back. I stopped reading your post at the quoted part because I seem to be put off by hard limits in human relations. This doesn't mean that I am all about hopeful attitudes. Hope is a weird thing in itself anyway. Takes away naturalness or something.

Thank you for the welcome back. And yes, that is probably the saddest part of my post.

[Park]

we went on a second date yesterday and she “friend zoned” me at the end even though I thought that it went incredibly well. I literally couldn’t have been more charming, talkative and at ease with myself. I guess I’m just ugly

I only glossed over your other comments, but I wanted to comment on the bolded parts;

There is a ~99% chance it had nothing to do with your appearance. Some women back off instinctually when they meet someone charming and self-confident. They are second-guessing themselves, not you. That said, from the little experience I've had with this kind of stuff I'd say don't dwell on it. It serves you no good, and ironically, can only make you appear less attractive and ruin your chances with this and future prospects.

Maybe. I think she was Ne-ego + So/Sp. She had a whole checklist of what she looks for in a partner and a weird sort of detachment/willingness to keep failed romantic prospects around as friends. She supposedly didn’t even know it was a date

How did you arrive at talking about what she wants in a partner if she didn't think she was on a date? Anyways, I personally hate guessing games and have extremely low tolerance for ambiguousness in relationships (or in everything, really) so what I do when I feel unsure about something (e.g. the state of the relationship, the purpose of a meetup, or anything related) is verbalize my thoughts in a clear and consistent manner and ask the same in return. It may appear autistic and turn many women/people off, but it serves the purpose of letting me know who I'm dealing with and solves a big problem on the spot, saving me time I otherwise would have wasted down the road.

[kuno]

Sometimes looking in the mirror and acquainting yourself with your movements, facial expressions, gestures, and your overall vibe helps in seeing how you might come across to people, and from there you can maybe change certain gestures of yours. Doing this was one thing that helped me feel more confident about how I look and come across, though it’s not a magic cure. I’m not sure what else to suggest that hasn’t already been suggested.

As some other people pointed out, it felt off when she told you to never storm out on a woman again. I understand her sentiment of not wanting to be walked out on, but the mentioning of her own gender feels a bit… strange. So it’s okay to storm out on a man? I don’t know exactly what she meant by that remark, yet I can’t help but think it smells of some sexist expectations. But perhaps she just meant it as, “Don’t ever storm out on a person you’re dating again,” and she mentioned her gender simply because she knows you’d only date women.

I don’t buy her claim that she didn’t know that you two were on a date. It sounds to me like she’s just saying that to alleviate any tension surrounding that first date. Like, “Oh, it’s not a big deal if you were awkward or were trying to make moves on me! I didn’t even see it as a date! Haha! You should’ve relaxed.” I mean, I don’t know… sounds insincere to me, though perhaps she said all of this with good intentions.

You might be over this whole situation by now and don’t wanna talk about it anymore, so I’ll just leave you with good wishes! I hope you meet a woman whose company you love and with whom you can connect honestly. Sorry this experience wasn’t so good. My first-ever date with someone was awful, so I can relate.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I oofed when I read the last text message. She friend zoned you.