How to define intuition?

[Lesri]

Years of Jung studies and still I have too weak methods/definitions to categorize what intuition does.

I mean, I can understand on a more superficial level what it does and how to spot it in others very well, but if I have to think what I value most, I just don't know.

It's like I lack the comprehension of these concepts if they aren't related to others or between others. I need to analyze others to see these concepts and then it will be super easy to categorize.

If I try asking myself what it is for me, I just come to the conclusion that maybe Ni is more archetypical in the way it seeks connections between things, and the importance is on the matrix of the process, while Ne valuers give more importance to the products of connections, not the matrix. So, maybe I value Ni more, because I spend my life trying to categorize abstract connections I perceive between both people and things, and I reach conclusions that try to "close" things in a way I will know how to act if same things happens again.
Or, I can rely on the fact my Ne lead friends tell me I'm too sure to know how things will go in the future, not giving a chance to possibilities that I sense will go nowhere.
But... that sound incomplete, and I may be wrong.

Anyway, here some question:

- how to differentiate Ne and Ni in a way I can have zero doubts about it if I have to not rely in analyzing others?


- What about Ti and Ni?
Does Ni perceives connections between things while Ti categorizes these informations?
How to understand if I value more Ti than Ni and vice versa? (Higher dimensionality for Ti respect to Ni, for exemple)

- Being intuitive detatches you from the real world, but at what extent?

Now a strange question:
- How can I understand in a deeper way if intuition is connected to something not directly lived? like for exemple dreams, books and other medias?

If a person concentrate on the sensations he felt and images he saw during his dreams, it is more a sensing or intuitive thing?

[Squirrel]

- Being intuitive detatches you from the real world, but at what extent?

When a function works , the opposite function doesn't work
When Ni work , Si is disabled and the opposite is true, the same for Pe ( Ne and Se)

Ns will be detached from reality when their Nx is working, but in general , at what extent are Ns detached from the real world , is dependent on how much strong are their sensing functions

[Ave]

This is actually a very good question that more people should ask themselves around here.

Everyone uses all the functions, so it's all about to what extent you use it with respect to other people. And this can be deceptive. This is also why I trust typing services with years of experience and thousands of people typed, because being intuitive is not about whether you engage in alot of abstract thinking (what is "alot", anyways? It's all relative). I don't trust amateurs who have typed their 2 neighbours, their relatives, their 2 exes and their cat, because this is not a large enough sample size to determine psychometric traits. It doesn't allow you to have a background against which you can see the psychometric traits being tested for (Jungian preferences like intuition) and against which the individual should be compared and contrasted.

[WinnieW]

@Lesri
Ok, let me share my thoughts to your questions.
You want to define and categorize information? That sounds like a clear case of Ti (introverted thinking) to me.
The question is do you want it in a way that it is easier for yourself or for other people to understand.

When it comes to intution. I would describe it in my own words as abstract pattern association. Ok, that might not be that useful for you.
When it comes to perception functions. Extroverted perception is static and introverted perception is dynamic.
Which means: The associations of Ne are static and the associations of Ni are dynamic.

I would describe Ne as spotanous and it has a snapshot like feeling, but with Ne you can see differerent asscotiations in a row between different ideas.

With Ni the associations changes their represantation. I would't say Ni seeks, it finds. I would assign the word seeking to Ne, but your subconscious does that for you and me.

[Lesri]

@Lesri
Ok, let me share my thoughts to your questions.
You want to define and categorize information? That sounds like a clear case of Ti (introverted thinking) to me.
The question is do you want it in a way that it is easier for yourself or for other people to understand.

I do it more for myself. If I think my explaination is better than the others', I will also share it to those who need it.

About intuition, are you able to do exemples ("Ni valuer does X because of Y, while Ne valuer does Z" etc.)?
I agree on Your description, but it's still hard for me to imagine in myself what I do most.

My exemple would be:
I would say a Ni valuer would sacrifice opportunities if they sound less probable, because he consider their developme through time, while the Ne valuer tries it anyways because "ther's the chance to make it work" even if low, and even if it is a risk for various reason (time wasted ecc.). Do you think it is correct?

[WinnieW]

I do it more for myself.

Ok.

About intuition, are you able to do exemples ("Ni valuer does X because of Y, while Ne valuer does Z" etc.)?

I doubt that it does work that way, because intuition comes before judgement. You are trying to define intution based on logic. Logic does filter the information based on intuition, but who knows what intuition is based on?
You can also ask what was before the big bang?

My exemple would be:
I would say a Ni valuer would sacrifice opportunities if they sound less probable, because he consider their developme through time, while the Ne valuer tries it anyways because "ther's the chance to make it work" even if low, and even if it is a risk for various reason (time wasted ecc.). Do you think it is correct?

Good question. To compare Ni and Ne in such a way, somebody would need to have both functions as concious function.
Ni is somewhat difficult to access for me. I can't tell how it works, I experience the result from that function only.

[Lesri]

You can also ask what was before the big bang?

Ironically, I have my answer to this. I don't think it being off topic because for sure can relate to Ti or Ni (or other ie).
I thought that before big bang there is chaos, or "God". A static point with no time and space. It contains all materia but in a compressed "file" (like a .rar lmao).
Something (we cannot image what because we are limited to just understand our systems, as humans) unconpressed it and materia came out, and when the extraction ends (the universe enlarges at its max point), it will be compressed again, and returning to one, reaching "God", and than big bang again.

I read Giordano Bruno's work this way: "God is in everything", because we are parts of Gods, but all distinct from eachother and try to feel on earth that chaos in various ways, like relating to other gods parts (other people, experiences, objects etc.) or with melancholy and nostalgia for that chaos (Titanism), and so poetry and arts.

Evangelion has similiar principle too: people cannot 100% comprehend eachother because they are distinct respect when they were chaos, so Shinji tries to make everything one to never feel betrayed again. Barriers between people will disappear if they all become one again. But he doesn't like it anyway and undo, because having all distinct was better.

To me, dreams we do are a manifestation of that chaos. When we are awake, our lives are mathematics, ruled by law, but during the night ther's "confusion", and reflection. Schopenhauer said the night being the moment in which we "reflect like the moon the light of the sun", filtering it, being the sun = what is material and connected to our physical life. I think all of this being connected to chaos, a deep analysis that brings us to the discover that everything is meaningless in the end, and this happens infact most during the night.
Most of the time dreams make no sense and are twisted.

So... returning to socionics
I had several discussions about this with LIIs, IEIs a d ILI and most of them gives me credit it makes sense. How to understand the matrix of all these conclusions?
I knew "principles" where more Ti, and philosophy too, while in Mbti Ni was more for these things.

I think most of the people interested in these kind of things to the point of making it relevant for them are Ni or Ti valuers.

I spent my free time creating different mythologies with the same principles just because I want to. I like to make sense of this principle in an easier and "fantasy" way. But is this Ni or Ti?

[WinnieW]

Ironically, I have my answer to this. I don't think it being off topic because for sure can relate to Ti or Ni (or other ie).

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this. You replied in a positive way to my Ne-based statement.

Science has the answer that there was no before the big bang, because time itself started with it, so there can be no before.

To me, dreams we do are a manifestation of that chaos.

Dreams are imagery of the human subconcious to me.

Tests with sensory deprivation shows that this state can be induced, which can be shocking to some people. People who are locked up in dark prison cells start to hallucinate.
Seems to me that suppressing sensing induces a dream state in humans.

I think most of the people interested in these kind of things to the point of making it relevant for them are Ni or Ti valuers.

I guess intuitive types more likely.

I spent my free time creating different mythologies with the same principles just because I want to. I like to make sense of this principle in an easier and "fantasy" way. But is this Ni or Ti?

Ti + Ne, IMO

Addendum:
Not a definition of intuition. More like my own experience of intuition and sensing when I listen to music.

The presense of Ni feels to me like travelling slowly throught the piece of music,
Si feels like the music spins slowly around me, usually a piece of music with low dynamics
Se is more a high energy around a limited area to me,
Ne jumps and bounces around.

[ouronis]

I made NI seem like this godlike thing. There’s imagining then the real world . Being able to move all the obstacles to get there being aware of all the physical details , things that happen very fast with peoples, having quick reactions when something happen, having the energy ect . Intuition is described as big picture can see how it forget details and is not realistic. Something’s that are just details for intuitive are not for sensors and those details are indeed not just that at times.

I think Ni comes with the ability to have a good sense of strategic timing.

[End]

- What about Ti and Ni?
Does Ni perceives connections between things while Ti categorizes these informations?
How to understand if I value more Ti than Ni and vice versa? (Higher dimensionality for Ti respect to Ni, for exemple)

- Being intuitive detatches you from the real world, but at what extent?

I can answer this one. If is dominant than you're in a rather... hard to describe situation. You know full good and well what you've done and why but the when is rather nebulous. I know if I did a thing, but the exact timetable escapes me more often than not. Past, Present, Future, it all blends into a mist. It's all so foggy. Yet it isn't. A thing must be done. If nobody else realizes what that is than it falls upon me. I have the best chance of surviving that nightmare and getting everyone else out alive because of that. So yeah, I'll take the point position...

You're also comparing apples to oranges as it were. and relate to and . and relate to and . Functions are paired by outright necessity. They both need the other to actually work as intended. As for me I'll just lay out how needs as that's kinda what any true valuer is looking for. types seek out types and vice versa.

correlates data. It's utterly useless without data to correlate. The same goes for . All the data in the world and then some. What does it all mean? Well, can and does put meaning and purpose to said raw sensual experience.

I think Ni comes with the ability to have a good sense of strategic timing.

is, from one point of view, one's ability to perceive and appreciate the value of time and act accordingly. Strategy may well be a thing to throw out the window if the situation requires it. There is a time for all things after all. Sometimes just giving into your emotions and going "Berserk" is the best play. Other times it's the absolute dumbest.

Fucking hell this all ties into pretty much everything I've cared to mention both past and present. I wonder if this is what types tend to experience. It's all connected man! It all really does feel like that from my end...

[Lesri]

I made NI seem like this godlike thing. There’s imagining then the real world . Being able to move all the obstacles to get there being aware of all the physical details , things that happen very fast with peoples, having quick reactions when something happen, having the energy ect . Intuition is described as big picture can see how it forget details and is not realistic. Something’s that are just details for intuitive are not for sensors and those details are indeed not just that at times.

It reminds to me an ILI girl (self typed, but I always thought she was ILI too). She planned things that for me were insane and... kinda strange.

She instantly planned her future with very far "online partners" she never met in real life (far = different continent, language etc.). I always said her "You are beautiful and sure have no problem finding guys here. Why you commit to so far guys? It would be problematic and risky because of distance etc." and she insulted me.

In the end, these relationship went sh1t, but I shouldn't say those things. I discovered later how a Ni lead works. I admire they just don't consider material obstacles and are quite good in dealing with it too (ILI have Te creative at least).

This is the one reason that made me think I was not Ni lead. I clash too much with them on these matters.

[godslave]

Intuition is the perception of what is not materialy present and is not a memory. Intuition is not that different from inspiration. Intuition can manifest as images, simulation of events and their development through a Time relative to the subject (mostly not real time) (Ni) and/or as the exploration thought ideas about the potentialities to alternate the nature of things including situations (Ne). Intuition can also be controlled and generated at will if it's strong enough.

[WinnieW]

It might depend on the person, but for me intuition works best when I'm in a relaxed state, at least mentally. Forcing ideas does not work well for me.

[ouronis]

I could say what my ideas of it are but everyone will claim some sensor has that thing I'm describing. So they may. For me, I interpret Jung's intuition as natural insight into or coming from the unconscious mind (which is not a simple one-source thing itself), usually at the level of the personal unconscious (which is of course fueled by the collective unconscious+the environment). This is where the intuitive's famous ability to "guess solutions others cannot" (as gulenko puts it) or see worlds others cannot comes from. Intuitives I've seen usually sharpen their intuition over the years by putting various situations to the test on it and seeing how it holds up, and adjusting their judgment in response (biased towards alpha NTs and maybe ego or creative functions, but all intuitives put their intuition to the test, whether completely unknowingly or not).

[ouronis]

One more thought: I think sensors have an advantage over intuitives in the following way: since their thoughts are based on consciously available pieces of perception, it is much easier for them to adjust on the fly and to think quickly in the first place (assuming the facts used to establish the line of thought are already gained). While an intuitive may be able to jump ahead in the case a solid line of facts has not been established, the potential algorithms for managing their intuition are much more inefficient because they don't have conscious access to their perception process. Sensors can more readily routinize procedures and thought coming from their perceptory data than intuitives, who essentially need to run risk mitigation strategies to make sure they get the best results out of their thoughts.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

patterns
sensors have more difficulty putting 2 and 2 together in a complex sense. they cant see the same thing from different points of reference to define in properly. an LSI told me i "kept canging the context" but my point was exactly what she said makes no sense at all because its not consistent across the board yet she infers a general principle for it. now something can be cosnistent and true even tho it manifests in different ways superficially. a sensor most of the time will not look into it, will not look into it deep enough and will not understand even if they have the information laid out in front of them. this is because they dont use proejctions of possibilities and ideas to explore each part of the information and realte it to all the others. of course intuitives dont see all the patterns immediately, but in general intuitives seem to be way more perceptive of different kinds of information, on average. sensors are more likely to ignore/think pieces of informaiton or ideas as stupid or nonsensical before they've actually done the effort to verify it but they are part of the larger picture hence they wont figure the inner workings of something as much. ofc an intuitive can call something stupid or nonsensical but they are again more likely to actually look into it and not hold it as a super rigid idea in their mind. u can even forcefully talk to an intuitive about something easier until they understand it while a sensor will tell u to fuck off use threats walk away make an excuse etc. in other words they are more likely to make easy decisions instead of correct ones.

[lookin4waifu]

[WinnieW]

Ok, I did some reflection on what Ni could be.

My realization is that it's a multi-dimensional pattern, each aspect of experience is transformed into an individuel dimension of that pattern.

With accumulation of experience that pattern expands in a certain direction. Each experience has different weights and affects that pattern that it changes shape and it's direction of growth.

For me it's like something it's happening somewhere in the background of my concious, and sometimes I realize events develop in a direction I don't want.

[CR400AF]

Years of Jung studies and still I have too weak methods/definitions to categorize what intuition does.

I mean, I can understand on a more superficial level what it does and how to spot it in others very well, but if I have to think what I value most, I just don't know.

I think there are 2 ways to understand these functions:

1) The dichotomy-based Socionics definition. It's easy to check.
2) The fundamental definition by Jung. But you need to focus on the fundamental definitions such as introversion, extraversion and intuition.

maybe Ni is more archetypical in the way it seeks connections between things, and the importance is on the matrix of the process, while Ne valuers give more importance to the products of connections, not the matrix.

Both Ni and Ne perceives the internal of things. However, they differ because they have different values. Ne gives importance to the essence of object. Since Ne is extraverted, it values the aspects that's decided by the objective objects instead of the related archetypes in our collective unconscious. On the other hand, Ni give importance to the archetype so it takes advantage of the evolved experience in our collective unconscious to "see the past, now and future". Such experiences are the experiences of the whole human beings, they are evolved and we gain them from our heritage. Ni utilizes such experiences to make predictions.

In my opinion, Jung's example of Ni is very clear to understand.

Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by a psychogenic attack of giddiness. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar character of this innervationdisturbance, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its transient course, the nature of its origin and disappearance in their every detail, without raising the smallest inquiry concerning the nature of the thing which produced the disturbance, or advancing anything as to its content. Intuition, on the other hand, receives from the sensation only the impetus to immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to the specific phenomenon, i.e. the attack of vertigo, in the present case. It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades. In this way introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation senses outer objects.

In this example, the archetype "a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow" is the experience in the collective unconscious of human being.QUOTE=Lesri;1529781Ni, as an introverted function, values the archetype, which is introverted. Ni utilizes the dynamic developments in this archetype, "how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades" and hence concludes the prediction on how the vertigo forms and how will it fades.

- What about Ti and Ni?
Does Ni perceives connections between things while Ti categorizes these informations?
How to understand if I value more Ti than Ni and vice versa? (Higher dimensionality for Ti respect to Ni, for exemple)

Ti is a rational/judging function while Ni is an irrational/perceiving one. I think the processes you described is a comprehensive one instead of any solo function/element.

Ti is a judging function. In the judging of Ti, the valued aspects are from our common experience instead of the objective objects. For instance, the laws of logical reasoning is common among all nations and races. Ti values the laws of logical reasoning instead of those from the objective world (e.g. experimental results from a machine) when making judgments.

[Tallmo]

In my opinion, Jung's example of Ni is very clear to understand.



In this example, the archetype "a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow" is the experience in the collective unconscious of human being.QUOTE=Lesri;1529781Ni, as an introverted function, values the archetype, which is introverted. Ni utilizes the dynamic developments in this archetype, "how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades" and hence concludes the prediction on how the vertigo forms and how will it fades.

I was thinking about the same example also. I suspect that this can be one reason why Ni types could perceive pain (or any innervation disturbance) maybe more as a "victim", because they are aware of the suffering on an archetypal level.

Jung's example is also very interesting for the reason that he shows how Ni and Si are connected.

(I personally feel some kind of vertigo almost all the time, more or less, so for that reason the example is fascinating to me)

[CR400AF]

I was thinking about the same example also. I suspect that this can be one reason why Ni types could perceive pain (or any innervation disturbance) maybe more as a "victim", because they are aware of the suffering on an archetypal level.

Jung's example is also very interesting for the reason that he shows how Ni and Si are connected.

(I personally feel some kind of vertigo almost all the time, more or less, so for that reason the example is fascinating to me)

To me this example is among the best. I think it demonstrate how archetypes are utilized by introverted functions. Also, it's a very good illustration of Jung's idea of projection.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'll try to explain it as simplistic as possible cuz I really don't think it's that complicated- ppl have criticized me before and said I oversimplified things too much but honestly if a child can't understand socionics than it's no good (like what bg said) You then can work on understanding more complicated things but if ur still confused on the elementary stuff u won't get very far.

What intuition is? Well, you daydream a lot. If ur some extroverted NT person - u will share with others ur insights a lot more and they will often be more down to earth and practical depending on ur level of mental health, neurotypical-ness and autism etc. (and like how ILEs dual seek Si anyway) Introverted and intuitive feelers are often quite different than extroverted and intuitive thinkers etc.

3rd grade teacher used to harshly yell at me to stop daydreaming so much. She would also defend me from bullies, so I didn't completely dislike her- but she wouldn't let me just stare out the window and ponder a lot like I wanted to. She had Exxj energy.

Ever since I was a new born baby I just kinda sat there and stared out into space. Somebody linked Ni to being like that game of thrones character Bran who saw things - not a bad description. It's Ni in a very over the top way, since ppl will have mixture of other things going on. And just because I have the insight of something doesn't mean I will necessarily share it, maybe I'm trying to spare somebody's feelings etc. Logical type people won't care as much about that and might blabber on more.

I dream about more fantastical things I guess being IEI. Just doing real world things and getting my hands dirty doesn't really do it for me- for some reason I always shy away from that compared to just thinking and dreaming a lot, then when I do do something & put the correct effort - it tends to come off rather shiny and narcissistically perfect.

U do just know things without experiencing them. Jung talked about it before - something about how intuitive people could better guess how many seagulls were in the sky or some shit like that? I don't remember the exact study but I remember reading something like that...

I knew my mom was gonna slip and fall on the ice and be hurt one day etc. I know when a person is angry enough to act on it and have a huge meltdown when other people have tried to sugar coat this- u basically survive life either casting Straight Man-aga or ******-aga - one is getting ur hands dirty & fixing tangible things in the moment, the other is properly evading and avoiding bad things before they even happen because ur so good at sensing when they do happen. In the world's history, most gay men were like the witches who live in cavern and sensed when shit was about to go down and u could go visit them if u wanted to know.

I don't like being forced to get involved like Exxjs and Exxps tend to not like being forced to evade.

[WinnieW]

@Tallmo
I guess I asked a question having wrong expectations and I didn't express my intentions in an understandable way.
But sometimes I expierence that I don't find proper words that can express exactly what I want to say.
Looks like I'm foreign language dyslexic, or something like that.

I asked myself they question why the answer to the question of post #1 "How to define intuition?" wasn't "Read what C.G. Jung has written about it. Case closed."
Obviously because Lesri has stated that he knows the texts of Jung already, and they were not that helpful for him.

I'd expected an explanation like @End did. And description how somebody expierence a cognitive function for themself.
Many years ago a teacher said to use school kids in a class room: "If you can't explain something in your own words than you didn't understand the content or meaning."

I expected a description from somebody who has Si as concious function to indentify in what way my perception is influenced by that function.
Even it is an unconcious function for my I react to it because it is a valued function for me.

The description of Si by C.G. Jung seems so abstract for me, I guess it has been an unconcious function for him either.

Reading texts from C.G. Jung is like clashing introverted judgement for me. I'm pretty sure his writing is based on Ti + Intuition.
Ti is subjective, so it's somewhat difficult for me to understand his reasoning.
100 years old writing style of human science doesn't make understanding easier for me.


I wonder in what scenarios I've used Ne in pure form for a longer period.

Socionics theory says that everybody have two perception and two judgement function as concious function.

Which means either Se and Ne or Si and Ni as concious function.

So the perception is one-sided. Either total extraverted or introverted.
There is no extraverted and introverted concious mixed perception.

So it's reading from to same sheet of a paper, but each of us can only see one side of that paper.

I'd just wanted to identify and verify what cognitive functions are concious functions for me, and the remaining functions are my unconcious functions.

[CR400AF]

@Tallmo
I expected a description from somebody who has Si as concious function to indentify in what way my perception is influenced by that function.
Even it is an unconcious function for my I react to it because it is a valued function for me.

The description of Si by C.G. Jung seems so abstract for me, I guess it has been an unconcious function for him either.

Reading texts from C.G. Jung is like clashing introverted judgement for me. I'm pretty sure his writing is based on Ti + Intuition.
Ti is subjective, so it's somewhat difficult for me to understand his reasoning.

IMO You need to study Jung's fundamental definitions on introversion, extraversion and projection. At first I also think Jung's texts are very hard to understand. Probably due to the stereotype such that Jung's texts are awkward, I don't really read them carefully. Then one day I refered to a PerC post when discussing Si and Tallmo pointed it out that the post I mentioned is flawed. Then I decided to re-read Jung and finally I think I understood it.

Tallmo also has a post on how to discover Si: Si - how to discover it (the16types.info)

[WinnieW]

Ok, first of all, a rant concerning the software of this board and this forum, not adressed to anybody here in particular.
I know a few web boards, and this is among of my least favorite when it comes to usability and user experience.
The board uses an outdated transfer protocol (http/1.1), the result is, it slowes down loading esp. pages with a lot of embbeded images and videos. Other boards I know switched to the better http/2 protocol a long time ago.
Also, I don't get along with the search function of this board well.

IMO You need to study Jung's fundamental definitions on introversion, extraversion and projection. At first I also think Jung's texts are very hard to understand. Probably due to the stereotype such that Jung's texts are awkward, I don't really read them carefully. Then one day I refered to a PerC post when discussing Si and Tallmo pointed it out that the post I mentioned is flawed. Then I decided to re-read Jung and finally I think I understood it.

Thnaks for your advice.

Tallmo also has a post on how to discover Si: Si - how to discover it (the16types.info)

Thanks again. I didn't find that thread. Blame me for being unable to use the search function properly.

[Exodus]

Ne and Ni are different ways of generating possibilities. Ne generates them laterally, in a way that doesn't exclude other possibilities, so breadthwise and in a way that imbues what currently exists with more potential. Ni generates them in a mutually exclusive way, and in particular exclusive of what exists currently, so depthwise and in a way that creates desire for some vision or goal or ideal.

- What about Ti and Ni?
Does Ni perceives connections between things while Ti categorizes these informations?

Ti categorizes things, yes. You can say it works with existing information that is present and apparent rather than generating something new.

How to understand if I value more Ti than Ni and vice versa? (Higher dimensionality for Ti respect to Ni, for exemple)

I think this is not the right question to ask, rational and irrational elements are mostly orthogonal. Consider whether you value Ne or Ni more.

If a person concentrate on the sensations he felt and images he saw during his dreams, it is more a sensing or intuitive thing?

Dreams are intuitive information to begin with and particularly Ni.

[WinnieW]

Ne and Ni are different ways of generating possibilities. Ne generates them laterally, in a way that doesn't exclude other possibilities, so breadthwise and in a way that imbues what currently exists with more potential. Ni generates them in a mutually exclusive way, and in particular exclusive of what exists currently, so depthwise and in a way that creates desire for some vision or goal or ideal.

I like that description.
Ne feels like being aware of an ideational void that has to be filled, and a fitting idea is generated as a consequence of that.

[Exodus]

I like that description.
Ne feels like being aware of an ideational void that has to be filled, and a fitting idea is generated as a consequence of that.

That's a good way to put it. Ne usually solves some pre-existing problem instead of generating something "from thin air" like Ni (like a story or work of art).

[WinnieW]

That's a good way to put it. Ne usually solves some pre-existing problem instead of generating something "from thin air" like Ni (like a story or work of art).

I'm a bit wary about the phrasing "from thin air". Why it can be look like for other people to be that way, I think it's more like extracting patterns from experience.

I think of it as a complex simulation and compare it to the approach of chaos theory.
To steer through a complex system of a lot of variables and parameters, where little variations and deviations can change the course and influence the outcome of events in a strong way. Ni might be a way to plot a route to your goals or destination, or at last keep track of it.

[Exodus]

I'm a bit wary about the phrasing "from thin air". Why it can be look like for other people to be that way, I think it's more like extracting patterns from experience.

I think of it as a complex simulation and compare it to the approach of chaos theory.
To steer through a complex system of a lot of variables and parameters, where little variations and deviations can change the course and influence the outcome of events in a strong way. Ni might be a way to plot a route to your goals or destination, or at last keep track of it.

What I was describing is more like Ni+Fe, what you're talking about is Ni+Te - it's based on observable data.

[Mairon]

Hi.
Regarding your question about dreams.

During non-REM sleep, the thalamus is inactive, but during REM sleep, when we are dreaming, the thalamus is active, sending the cerebral cortex images, sounds, and sensations, which is why we are able to hear, feel, and see in our dreams similarly to how we do when we are awake

From Brainfacts.org

I don't have enough information to disprove or confirm what was written there, but I think the content of dreams are made on Ni informations, as the other user suggested, while sensations are not.

The latter have to be registered very well to be repeated or mixed, or just imagined during dreams.Taking into account that intuitive can for sure record various types of sensations, probably it will be more the sensor to dream them, while having a less "complex" or "symbolical" content, due to reduced intuition.

However, the thesis contrary to this deduction is what I read in many studies relating to MBTI years ago. They believe the content that the inferior Se collected during the day is reworked and granted to the individual during sleep thanks to Ni. So Ni dominant and Se inferior are connected this way: the INXJ moves away from sensations in the real world, but in his dreams he can experience them.

But, Jung himself affirms in his books "Psychological types" that the inferior Ni of Se dominant types may lead to intense mystical features (which most likely also flow into dreams), so not even the dominant Se can be excluded from this discourse

So, two different models, with two (slightly) different Ni definition and a too abstract discussion without proofs that demonstrate its validity. It is indeed a controversial discussion which brings as the only conclusion the importance of the Ni function for dreams, which is however present in every sociotype.

[Metamorph]

Extra-sensory perception

Jung, speaker of German, a language in which the word Sinn (sense) is still widely used to refer to consciousness itself, should've known better.

[BrainlessSquid]

I see intuition as knowing without words, explanations, and with no visible background information
I simple know something and I say It's due to my intuition.
It's not belief, because belief comes from imagination. Intuition comes from within (It's a conscious access to the most unconscious processing of the brain)

[Metamorph]

Jung defined intuition as ESP. Full stop. In Jungian psychology it's just a polite word clairvoyance/telepathy/telekinesis. I feel like everyone should already know that.

Then, if everyone lost their euphemisms, more people would have to be mind readers.

[Metamorph]

"The mathematical theory of information is beyond the reach of my understanding, but it sounds interesting nevertheless."

Carl Jung LSI confirm final.

[Metamorph]

Why are most of you wasting your time talking about some obscure guy's ESP theory when you don't even have ESP? Smh.

[Metamorph]

Ni is Kantian intuition. Kantian intuition is the most boring kind. We prefer Jungian intuition. ESP is way more entertaining than "external intuition is space and internal intuition is time." Also, Aušra Augustinavičiūtė was way late to the Kant party. There aren't no party like a Kant party because there ain't a Kant party.

[Metamorph]

At least it's not as boring as MBTI intuition, which is Humean intuition. Even Kantian intuition is more interesting than Humean intuition, though clearly the best option is Jungian intuition which is just ESP.

MBTI = Hume
Socionics = Kant
Psychological Types = William James

[WinnieW]

Pardon me but static vs dynamic when ist comes to the Socionics definitions is like comparing stairs with an inclined plane, or as electronic components a stepping switch with a potentiometer.

[BrainlessSquid]

Intuition is pretty much like getting hit by an invisible sword. No one can see it, but you know it's there by the effect it has on you