Thoughts on the “Inflation Reduction Act of 2022”?

[ouronis]

American liberals: Expressing their benevolence to humanity and to their country, one nazi death camp reference at a time.

Lol you have a warped idea of the left. Many of us distance ourselves from "liberals" who think the world gets better by niceness and not realpolitik, which is part of the reason our country keeps getting worse. As far as corrupt politicians like Manchin, if it really was a matter of common disagreement, of course I wouldn't think he deserves a noose, but he's bought off like so many of our politicians and committing treason every day because of it. For someone like him, I have no hesitation in saying he ought to be removed. I want idiots like him to get out of the way of us actually having the better world we say we want.

[Ave]

Lol you have a warped idea of the left. Many of us distance ourselves from "liberals" who think the world gets better by niceness and not realpolitik, which is part of the reason our country keeps getting worse. As far as corrupt politicians like Manchin, if it really was a matter of common disagreement, of course I wouldn't think he deserves a noose, but he's bought off like so many of our politicians and committing treason every day because of it. For someone like him, I have no hesitation in saying he ought to be removed. I want idiots like him to get out of the way of us actually having the better world we say we want.

I probably do have a warped idea of the American left. My experience is limited to the 90s and early 00s and I haven't been back to America since then, and I'm sure alot has changed since then. I admit I have a hard time understanding the attitudes that liberals have nowadays, they seem to act like bullies towards those who disagree with them, or at least, towards those who vote for things they disagree with. I don't consider this 'realpolitik', as if it was, it would have worked by now lol. I just think alot of these liberals are frustrated, but I also don't think this is a constructive way to go about things. It probably makes the liberals feel tougher when dealing with conservatives (who have been playing dirty politics for a long time), but what has it accomplished?

As far as Manchin goes, I don't know a huge amount about him, I know he's a democratic senator from West Virginia, and often votes against his own party's lines, which to me doesn't seem like treason. I think he is going along with what his constituents want, which admittedly is cowardly, but not corrupt.

Also you say you want a better world, but do you consider that politicians voting for the bills you want may also be corrupt? If the ones voting against it are corrupt, then why would the other side be exempt from corruption? Corruption usually infects a whole system. That said, I don't think the whole system in America is corrupt, but yeah.

[DogOfDanger]

My experience is limited to the 90s and early 00s and I haven't been back to America since then

The culture has gotten dramatically worse and the country much more divided since the 90s / 2000s.

That said, I don't think the whole system in America is corrupt, but yeah.

Corruption and greed are often used as catch-all explanations. People want to feel like they understand things, even if they have no context on them. It's stupid, but it's the norm.
Politicians vote the ways they do for all kinds of reasons... to appeal to constituencies or to the general public; to satisfy some deranged, half formed opinions they have; because a different vote wouldn't effect the outcome; to make political allies to advance other causes, because this is how the system is set up currently... etc. Or in alot of cases the vote may be perfectly reasonable given a full understanding of the issue, but just happen to rile up the toddlers in the public who involve themselves in politics (of which there are far too many).

[Adam Strange]

The culture has gotten dramatically worse and the country much more divided since the 90s / 2000s.


Corruption and greed are often used as catch-all explanations. People want to feel like they understand things, even if they have no context on them. It's stupid, but it's the norm.
Politicians vote the ways they do for all kinds of reasons... to appeal to constituencies or to the general public; to satisfy some deranged, half formed opinions they have; because a different vote wouldn't effect the outcome; to make political allies to advance other causes, because this is how the system is set up currently... etc. Or in alot of cases the vote may be perfectly reasonable given a full understanding of the issue, but just happen to rile up the toddlers in the public who involve themselves in politics (of which there are far too many).

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...tion-fox-news/

[DogOfDanger]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...tion-fox-news/

Case in point, people acting like toddlers and involving themselves in politics - refusing to reason, characterizing the opposition with slogans, being entrenched in their shallow partisan viewpoints, etc. I was actually one of the strongest opponents I knew to Bush during the Bush years, I've also been very strongly against the anti-vaccine hysteria, and generally am an independent, but because this moron needs a way of explaining away contrary opinions, to maintain his sense of partisan inner harmony, he has to resort to this.

It's rare in the US to find a political discussion that isn't completely dominated by this sort of idiocy.

[ouronis]

I probably do have a warped idea of the American left. My experience is limited to the 90s and early 00s and I haven't been back to America since then, and I'm sure alot has changed since then. I admit I have a hard time understanding the attitudes that liberals have nowadays, they seem to act like bullies towards those who disagree with them, or at least, towards those who vote for things they disagree with. I don't consider this 'realpolitik', as if it was, it would have worked by now lol. I just think alot of these liberals are frustrated, but I also don't think this is a constructive way to go about things. It probably makes the liberals feel tougher when dealing with conservatives (who have been playing dirty politics for a long time), but what has it accomplished?

As far as Manchin goes, I don't know a huge amount about him, I know he's a democratic senator from West Virginia, and often votes against his own party's lines, which to me doesn't seem like treason. I think he is going along with what his constituents want, which admittedly is cowardly, but not corrupt.

Also you say you want a better world, but do you consider that politicians voting for the bills you want may also be corrupt? If the ones voting against it are corrupt, then why would the other side be exempt from corruption? Corruption usually infects a whole system. That said, I don't think the whole system in America is corrupt, but yeah.

Dude, just read about it. I don't have time to hold your hand through everything. Manchin does not vote with the desires of his constituents.

[Ave]

Dude, just read about it. I don't have time to hold your hand through everything. Manchin does not vote with the desires of his constituents.

No need to be such a flippant asshole. I'm not asking you to hold my hand, my main point isn't about Manchin, anyways, but about how the left behaves, and you haven't addressed those points. I have seen liberals try to intimidate and bully those who are in disagreement with them (read not just those who are 'corrupt'), perhaps this doesn't a apply to you but it applies to many. Have fun with your 'realpolitik' of insulting people over the internet, I hear the democrats are getting tons more votes now that they can flex their political muscles on Twitter.

[ouronis]

No need to be such a flippant asshole. I'm not asking you to hold my hand, my main point isn't about Manchin, anyways, but about how the left behaves, and you haven't addressed those points. I have seen liberals try to intimidate and bully those who are in disagreement with them (read not just those who are 'corrupt'), perhaps this doesn't a apply to you but it applies to many. Have fun with your 'realpolitik' of insulting people over the internet, I hear the democrats are getting tons more votes now that they can flex their political muscles on Twitter.

lol. Our only tool is to complain because our politicians don't actually fight for anything. They are the ones that need to do the realpolitik. I don't know about bullying, I haven't really seen that.

Everyone in gov is bought and paid for because it's baked into the system. It's very much a "get in line" type of system in favor of corporations and other special interests. Republicans straight up favor these special interests and Democrats have a thin veneer of pretending not to. There is a shift occurring where more people favor Democratic politicians who are not corrupt, go figure. Crazy right?