Lack of value in history for heart type values such as empathy?

[iamablueberrymadeoflove]

It seems to me that most of the world up until recently with the discovery of therapy and psychology did not seem to value any heart type values except for romance. I’ve always been amazed at how emotionally devoid of empathy people have been up until the mid 20th-21st century.


Take for example the First Servile War and the Third Servile War where in the first war 20,000 slaves were crucified and 6000 in the 3rd after they rebelled due to the cruel and inhuman ways in which they were treated. If people had more empathy and consideration for peoples emotions and humanity then these occurrences might have never happened. Instead when they rebellions were put down the slaves were crucified (which is basically torture) and the army acted as if this was a form of justice and retribution. Or in the Spanish Inquisition which lasted 400 years from the 15th century to the 19th century in which the government was allowed to torture people to allow confessions of guilt to avoid being burned to death. Life during the inquisition seemed very black/whiteish in its ethics and I’m not sure if was the power seeking of the kings in an 8ish way or the fact that they hid this power seeking behind what might be seen as unhealthy 1ish morality. Either way, there didn’t seem to be much gray/neutrality to peoples ethics in these times or color to their emotional intelligence.



Or was it just a period of unhealthy gut type-ish ethics that had been distorted to suit the kings and queens and those in power however they pleased?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

People don't have any empathy, even nowadays. Never Was/Never Will Be type of thing. Realistically the only way for people to behave "correctly" is punishment- it deters them from doing certain unethical things they should not be doing. Trying to instill empathy doesn't work.

It can be easy to fall in the victim playing trap with this "you didn't have any empathy for me" but that person most likely didn't have any real empathy for anybody else either - just Make Believe virtue signal empathy that was manipulative and fake and everybody saw thru it. People are so hateful and sinful and selfish- it's part of how religion was born and I kinda get that, although I don't think it does much to help it's not that hard to see the motivation of why it was born.

One of my close friends said that I looked at people too darkly - but I mean she did end up trying to stab a girl herself and I forgave her for this but it still made me keep my distance- so do I really look at 'things too darkly' or do I just see things accurately and ur being too ideal and rosy-colored glasses- and project that I am the one doing this because I'm superficially positive and 'gay' acting mmmhmmmmmm???

Heart matters tend to be so private and personal, in a lot of areas it doesn't work- and ppl are encouraged to just think of things more objectively and scientifically and str8 male cold like.

Powerful emperors and The Rich™ aren't the only ones without empathy, it's just the most "obvious" and easiest to dislike. Poor people smugly smiled at the innocent children being abused as well. Many media and video games have the common fantasy trope of a masculine hero from a small town that fights a decadent and narcissistic effeminate urban villain- but in reality, they are both the villain.

Most/many? people have a certain ick factor that stops them from liking too much gore or evil degenercery - but I'm not sure this is empathy per se. It's easy to understand that chopping up infants and eating them is 'wrong' - even for people who are evil and heartless. Because realistically most people don't seem to be into this- the way people hurt each other is often a lot more subtle but it still stings, but most people don't care because it's not easy to scapegoat like campy infant eating is.

"when we do shitty things in life we don't think we're not righteous we think we have the right" I said it 10,000 times before and I'll say it 10,000 times again. Gay people over the years were tortured by holier than thou Karens who hated the sexuality of gays. to be fair we can be too perverted and animalistic sometimes probably. There is truth to both sides, but often times people do hurt others thinking they are doing 'God's work' or whatever- and of course it's a trap u have to be careful not to fall into yourself. I don't think it's anything to cry about necessarily- I don't have any empathy and neither do you, but we can still get along based on a logical system that works for both of us.

[Nephilthoth]

Empathy and compassion are so valuable because it's so rare, especially if you take a historical point of view.

[RBRS]

Rather people started "faking" empathy when it became valuable in society, which is in turn due to the structure of said society and the "decision-makers" within it realizing "empathy" as both conductive to a smoother functioning of the nation and a very versatile tool for propaganda.
Left to it's own devices man is not naturally empathetic.

Most/many? people have a certain ick factor that stops them from liking too much gore or evil degenercery - but I'm not sure this is empathy per se. It's easy to understand that chopping up infants and eating them is 'wrong' - even for people who are evil and heartless. Because realistically most people don't seem to be into this

Yet families dismembered their children and sold their meat on the treets during holomodor. Even better, for phoenicians one of the main festivities consisted in boiling babies alive on a bronze bull that symbolized Baal. Why don't we do such things anymore? Social conventions.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

people are mentally ill. theres no logical reason to why ppl are not empathic. but ppl are mentally ill due to brain lacerations, life experiences that mess brains up while not letting u recover or build urself to be better bc u have to deal with obligations breaking ur mind and body.

[ouronis]

It's too easy to do things for yourself. To be empathetic, you have to accept that you'll do things you won't be there to see the benefit of.

As far as understanding history, I think it helps to put yourself in the shoes of people making decisions. What seems like a straightforward cruel act can get muddier when you put the concerns and beliefs of those people in view. Not that every motivation they had was perfect or understandable, but there is usually enough muddiness to see why someone in their shoes would have made that choice.

[Raptor2016]

people are mentally ill. theres no logical reason to why ppl are not empathic. but ppl are mentally ill due to brain lacerations, life experiences that mess brains up while not letting u recover or build urself to be better bc u have to deal with obligations breaking ur mind and body.

Ya, I fully agree. People are often berserk and squeezed into mumbo jumbo retrogression and a not so fairy tale like or shiny bubble that they instead would just burst to take away imagination.

Which of course is sad as I always Love Imagination, streaming the great wide umbrella of unicorns and friendship.

[iamablueberrymadeoflove]

People don't have any empathy, even nowadays. Never Was/Never Will Be type of thing. Realistically the only way for people to behave "correctly" is punishment- it deters them from doing certain unethical things they should not be doing. Trying to instill empathy doesn't work.

It can be easy to fall in the victim playing trap with this "you didn't have any empathy for me" but that person most likely didn't have any real empathy for anybody else either - just Make Believe virtue signal empathy that was manipulative and fake and everybody saw thru it. People are so hateful and sinful and selfish- it's part of how religion was born and I kinda get that, although I don't think it does much to help it's not that hard to see the motivation of why it was born.

One of my close friends said that I looked at people too darkly - but I mean she did end up trying to stab a girl herself and I forgave her for this but it still made me keep my distance- so do I really look at 'things too darkly' or do I just see things accurately and ur being too ideal and rosy-colored glasses- and project that I am the one doing this because I'm superficially positive and 'gay' acting mmmhmmmmmm???

Heart matters tend to be so private and personal, in a lot of areas it doesn't work- and ppl are encouraged to just think of things more objectively and scientifically and str8 male cold like.

Powerful emperors and The Rich™ aren't the only ones without empathy, it's just the most "obvious" and easiest to dislike. Poor people smugly smiled at the innocent children being abused as well. Many media and video games have the common fantasy trope of a masculine hero from a small town that fights a decadent and narcissistic effeminate urban villain- but in reality, they are both the villain.

Most/many? people have a certain ick factor that stops them from liking too much gore or evil degenercery - but I'm not sure this is empathy per se. It's easy to understand that chopping up infants and eating them is 'wrong' - even for people who are evil and heartless. Because realistically most people don't seem to be into this- the way people hurt each other is often a lot more subtle but it still stings, but most people don't care because it's not easy to scapegoat like campy infant eating is.

"when we do shitty things in life we don't think we're not righteous we think we have the right" I said it 10,000 times before and I'll say it 10,000 times again. Gay people over the years were tortured by holier than thou Karens who hated the sexuality of gays. to be fair we can be too perverted and animalistic sometimes probably. There is truth to both sides, but often times people do hurt others thinking they are doing 'God's work' or whatever- and of course it's a trap u have to be careful not to fall into yourself. I don't think it's anything to cry about necessarily- I don't have any empathy and neither do you, but we can still get along based on a logical system that works for both of us.

True, punishment can work sometimes. But overly punishing for overstepping ethical boundaries has always been the go to attitude for solving problems in the past, and it seems like it was more of a gut center solution. I’ve always been a very emotional person as a heart type , so these so called punishments in history such as burning people alive when they wouldn’t repent from their sins and physical punishment such as flogging people shouldn’t have taken hundreds of years to go away. I feel like if we can teach people to the morals and integrity which is a healthy part of the gut center, then we can teach them empathy which is part of the higher qualities of the heart center. I mean punishing people to act “correctly” in a enneagram 1ish way can act sometimes but I feel like it lacks perspective because it doesn’t look at the underlying issue of the fact that punishment can go too far. I’m not talking about empathy for myself, I’m talking empathy for others moreso. If people can learn to have ethics/gut center boundaries then what’s stopping them from having empathy/heart center values?

My point was that there’s more to life than just overly using one center of intelligence and that if we were more balanced in our use of other centers such as the heart center than these so called “punishments” for unethical behavior would have never gone that far or needed to be so violent such as with physical corporal punishment that took hundreds of years to be banned. Having a healthy amount of empathy (heart center) for other people is just as important as having decent ethics (gut center).