Braingel/Kara’s Enneagram takes.

[Headstrong]

If I ever transitioned, you would be the last man I'd ever go near or take gifts from. I don't want your soviet STIs, thanks.

Anyway, jokes and insults aside, this is stupid. It's going nowhere, and is childish as hell.

You're obviously a Gulenko shill, and you have your cognitive biases and mind up about which system to follow, and you've given me no proof as to why we should take your opinions on Model G seriously, so I'm out.

Talking to you is obviously a waste of time. I've come to the end of playtime. Bye.

Bad girl.

[Headstrong]

Forget about functions and elements. Types should translate from one system to the other because the 4 base dichotomies are sufficient to define a type and 3 of them that they all use are largely understood the same in MBTI and in Socionics too, from Model A to Z and from SCS through SHS to WSS or whatever. If your first three letters don't match everywhere then there's something wrong with your typing.

True facts.

[Braingel]

If you could translate types like this very easily.. Why are vast majority of people in G typed as LSI and EIE, and thy ey wouldn’t be these types in meyers or in other systems, and they get forced to fit the eie and lsi with dcnh and accentuation justification…

[Braingel]

True facts.

You’d said that Pan Jungians don’t understand typology the other day..

[Headstrong]

You’d said that Pan Jungians don’t understand typology the other day..

I'm just being facetious.

[khaki]

You say you're INFx in MBTI and that you're INFx in Socionics, there's no issue here, @Braingel. The different systems differ only in the function stacks they render to the same types and just speculate on the inner dynamics of these types differently. The endless redefining of the functions/elements is needed only because they're trying to describe the same thing with the same nomenclature ordered in differing logical models. If the four letter preferences are part of each system and 3 of them are practically understood the same establishing a clear link between them, then it doesn't matter what kind of story someone makes up about the "complex interplay" of all these functions and elements to justify a typing in either MBTI or Socionics at large, in the end, it should lead to the same result as if you just typed someone by those dichotomies, otherwise there's a contradiction.

[The Reality Denialist]

If you could translate types like this very easily.. Why are vast majority of people in G typed as LSI and EIE, and thy ey wouldn’t be these types in meyers or in other systems, and they get forced to fit the eie and lsi with dcnh and accentuation justification…

Jung originally thought that were only two types: Introverted thinkers and extroverted feelers, until he went deeper to anthropology and expanded it to irrationality and gave both poles of thinking and feeling too. So, I suppose EIE and LSI has a pretty good justification. It sort of makes me question how the other types were seen.

So, I'd venture that SLI and ILI would be unbalanced Ti types same with IEE and SEEE being unbalanced Fe however what about Te extroverts and Fi introverts.

Industrious people (Te) probably stay in the shadows from psychiatrist perspective. Henry Ford being a very clear Te type, never wanted to show himself speaking and so on for instance.

[Braingel]

You say you're INFx in MBTI and that you're INFx in Socionics, there's no issue here, @Braingel. The different systems differ only in the function stacks they render to the same types and just speculate on the inner dynamics of these types differently. The endless redefining of the functions/elements is needed only because they're trying to describe the same thing with the same nomenclature ordered in differing logical models. If the four letter preferences are part of each system and 3 of them are practically understood the same establishing a clear link between them, then it doesn't matter what kind of story someone makes up about the "complex interplay" of all these functions and elements to justify a typing in either MBTI or Socionics at large, in the end, it should lead to the same result as if you just typed someone by those dichotomies, otherwise there's a contradiction.

I mean, there are pretty substantial differences though.. Like model G defining the suggestive function as being 3D… In most models, this is only a 1 dimensional placement.. Like I said, in every model other than 4 function stack mbti, my strongest functions are Fi and Ni… Even in OPS, I am Ni-Fi.. Not an issue here, these are my two highest functions, it when you throw around different systems, but changes whether I am an INFP or INFJ. The only thing I can say that I keep is strong Fi and strong Ni.

[Braingel]

The “social mission” part of model G, would be the thing that in theory should keep with a person’s Jung type, but the +/- addings, and the whole strength placement of dimensionality and whatnot.. And the dcnh.. This just makes it overall harder for a person to be a clean translate in..

[Braingel]

Like, an INFJ who has decently developed Ti tertiary is probably going to be typed “EIE-H”… Especially of they aren’t as positively expressive… They’re gonna be typed not launch, not overly good Ti, and would be typed “3D” Ti, and a negativist.. Gulenko fixates a bit too much on certain dichotomies..

[Braingel]

Could you say that you and @DEAD are Semi-Duals?

If you type Dead as an eie then me as a lii isn’t very good, but I am close to that by classic aushura (eii). If you mean ili by Dead being an SEE, I don’t have good enough Te to be an ili, really

[Braingel]

I am an IEI by most metrics of modern, surface socionics..

[Braingel]

If you must know all my typings relative to socio school, it’s

Aushura EII
Filatova IEI
Talanov (IEI-Ni. I need change eventually the Fe, as an IEI-Ni is more chaotic than Fe sub)
WSS IEI

Model G is such a cluster fuck, no type fits me excessively well, but if I’m blatantly honest, based on causes I focus on, I would probably be typed an IEI: https://www.instagram.com/movingmind...&utm_source=qr

If not an IEI, probably some IEE-H or IEE-N.

[Braingel]

It'd be IEI and SEE if it were the case.

Maybe for modern yeah

[Braingel]

Dead is some static extrovert in scs (Se base, Ne base).

[necrosebud]

posting it here instead of the Sylvia Plath thread since this seems more of your personal/blog thread

I want people to realize the gravity of this all. Imagine labeling an autistic female in her early twenties with complex ptsd as a certain type, because of reactivity.. When a brain isn’t even formed fully until mid to late twenties, and in an autistic person, this would actually come later than then, because of slower brain development https://kids.frontiersin.org/article...ym.2022.644822
, so emotions will be even more visceral. And then throw in cptsd in that and autism executive dysfunction from brain delays and deficit regions.

I want people to actually realize how absurd that is. It isn’t even looking at my cognition replacements of things. Pure surface traits. Traits that aren’t even directly related to functions. Some may be slightly, but this is outside of typological scope.

Then in addition to this, an idiot compare this autistic female with the trauma history that’s extensive, to other examples of people… In the community.. When they don’t have the trauma history to this extent, an active trauma origin living situation, or a slower brain development where emotional and impulse parts of brain mature even slower than of normalcy. Imagine this, then telling the autistic female they’re delusional to view their own self the way they do. This is what Qaz has done to me, in addition to jab, and just be an idiot and jack ass.

I wonder if your reactions, beyond simply "invalidation" might be stemming from invalidation of manipulation and emotional abuse at the hands of one or more people closest to you? I would feel that way if my inherent temperament or personality gets blamed for my reactions to triggers due to underlying manipulation by others. Because that is indeed like salt on wounds. But not everyone is that perceptive, especially online. And you have said it before, but I would not give too much credence to opinions on here. Once you see people might have their own 'distortions' that is not about you, especially when they aggregate on a site like this, it has personally helped me de-personalize it.

[Braingel]

posting it here instead of the Sylvia Plath thread since this seems more of your personal/blog thread



I wonder if your reactions, beyond simply "invalidation" might be stemming from invalidation of manipulation and emotional abuse at the hands of one or more people closest to you? I would feel that way if my inherent temperament or personality gets blamed for my reactions to triggers due to underlying manipulation by others. Because that is indeed like salt on wounds. But not everyone is that perceptive, especially online. And you have said it before, but I would not give too much credence to opinions on here. Once you see people might have their own 'distortions' that is not about you, especially when they aggregate on a site like this, it has personally helped me de-personalize it.

You would be correct in everything you have said, yes.. It is easier said than done to regulate myself when I have emotional flashbacks.. I like aromatherapy and things, but other than this and some warm showers, I’ve little ways to regulate myself. I have been trying develop other activities that help this, but they’ve not translated over. Often when I get like this, I want nothing more than to be embraced really tightly by someone.

[necrosebud]

You would be correct in everything you have said, yes.. It is easier said than done to regulate myself when I have emotional flashbacks.. I like aromatherapy and things, but other than this and some warm showers, I’ve little ways to regulate myself. I have been trying develop other activities that help this, but they’ve not translated over. Often when I get like this, I want nothing more than to be embraced really tightly by someone.

I wouldn't force "regulation" although those strategies may or may not be soothing for you (it is up to you). What I have found is when I react strongly to a trigger there is a quite a bit of un-integrated or un-processed psychological stuff. Once I process it more, things become clearer including others' limitations which have nothing to do with me. It's harder to "invalidate" me. With it also naturally comes better regulation. It's not linear tho

[Braingel]

It’s hard to bead necklaces and to meditate and to watch asmr when I am emotionally charged..

[Braingel]

I wouldn't force "regulation" although those strategies may or may not be soothing for you (it is up to you). What I have found is when I react strongly to a trigger there is a quite a bit of un-integrated or un-processed psychological stuff. Once I process it more, things become clearer including others' limitations which have nothing to do with me. It's harder to "invalidate" me. With it also naturally comes better regulation. It's not linear tho

I have realized it’s an illusion, I have reflected and written on this before, and sometimes it does help me (when I am stable), but when I’m actually dysregulated this is where it becomes really difficult where only a set of few things would work. When that happens, I need something to literally counter-force me into calm, not to dismiss my emotions, but to help me from hemorrhaging like that. In an ideal situation, I would spend as much time as I needed crying in the arms of another. And I often imagine this in fictional means, and sometimes visualize this stuff..

[Braingel]

When I am like that, I often need a sensory means to counter-balance me. I need some sensory thing that grounds me— perhaps because I don’t have the ability with sensory information well, I need a lot of external assistance with this.. I am always contemplative and aware of the roots, I would share something that I’d written, maybe I will of this do later.. Bit yeah, I am convinced when I get like that, only sensory assistance can stabilize me. Maybe it also partially has do with being neurodivergent? Autistic lack of ability to sensory-regulate and more overwhelm..

[Braingel]

Like it was so bad last night that my body was actually shaking. Really intensely. I think this has do with immature ability with sensory information, and to be able to regulate that well or on my own.. I can’t just adjust myself internally on that state.

[Braingel]

Normally I can regulate myself, but when it comes to my biggest ptsd triggers, I am shit as this. Likely, because these reactions developed to begin with as a means to survive. There hardwired and strong and have persisted for years upon years, and it is against my instinct to rationalize and not consume by.

[Braingel]

When it comes to those things, I need help outside of my own self currently, to be able, otherwise it burns out on its own and ruminates. I can prevent things to an extent, but as of now, this is all I can do with my current ability of tolerating my emotional triggers.

I need something physical and something that is warm. Because I can’t induce warmth in my own self, and probably physical, because I am not great with sensory elements on my own. Literally, everything sensory I do focus on is coping and maladaptive, like aromatherapy and whatnot, and my immature fixation on it that others always complain about on discord. Same thing with beading. Those are the things that aren’t natural in me, and the beading I make constant mistakes with, because it isn’t something of my natural energy focus.

[Braingel]

The really big key with this is that I only have a hard time controlling my deepest ptsd wounds.

[Braingel]

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Sylvia-Plath

DDuring 1957–58 Plath was an instructor in English at Smith College. In 1960, shortly after she returned to England with Hughes, her first collection of poems appeared as The Colossus, which received good reviews. Her novel, The Bell Jar, was published in London in 1963 under the pseudonym Victoria Lucas. Strongly autobiographical, the book describes the mental breakdown and eventual recovery of a young college girl and parallels Plath’s own breakdown and hospitalization in 1953.

Because this novel would’ve been a mostly autobiographical story about her own disintegration point, it’s likely the story is written out of the lens of her grip state of ESTP.

[Braingel]

Flower thought that Plath is an IEE. To me, I just realized, this further evidences her as an INFJ, who accessed her enfp shadow. And the reports of her not writing very intuitive in a biography that was literally written about her own breakdown (not normal function use state), it further evidences ESTP grip.

[Braingel]

John Beebe had noticed people shadow and access less conscious functions in his practice as a psychiatrist who specializes in also psychotherapy for 40+ years.. I am sure that he would’ve obviously dealt with pathological people, which shows that it would show its face even more in pathology. I am deeply pathological. Plath would’ve been.

[Braingel]

Carl Jung and John Beebe would have the most accurate views of very unhealthy people in function use.

[Braingel]

Socionics isolated alone doesn’t account for pathology. Especially in modern.

[Braingel]

Something lengthy I wrote out in an enneagram Facebook post, but that would demonstrate well, how unrelated things can tie into resonance via emotional memory.

Well, I found a very good example of a 7 core (Ne dom) song that I’ve never encountered, because it’s far from my musical taste (melancholia with dark wave, niche new age, ambient electronic, gothic alternative).


Whilst this song is too positive for myself to be vastly attracted, it does have a decent beat, and I am an Ne type myself (meyers), so I can appreciate the sentiment of open-mindedness to some extent (the lyrics: “We keep our eyes open We keep our minds open
If you're not with it that's OK, Our doors are unlocked every day”)..


The part of lyrics I do dislike is “awesome way” (cliche, vapid, too positive), but the other lyrics don’t bother myself other than that I don’t care for the “we”.. I don’t like the title of the song either thereof, but the actual beat isn’t bad, the composition of the song isn’t poor. The lyrics have a few bothersome parts, but they otherwise aren’t oriented towards something superficial, and are focused on something visionary, especially for a song that is supposed be “simple”. I say this as a person who is highly rejecting of pop and of most music.


I don’t believe it’s intended in the song, but it is sort of like they are trying drill a mantra on with the repeated chorus, and also the way the instruments orient with the way they sort of build up and drill in and push at you (assertive enneagrammtic core with 7-9 stem). I believe what makes me not fully pushed off by this song, even though it’s way out of my own range of general taste, is that it has a certain emotional authenticity to it, with the overall composition. This is rare to encounter outside of alternative or R and B, which I believe intrigued me a bit to see this in a pop song… You can say that it sort of made me sweep into an analysis and trying dissect of how this happened and try “figure it out”, because I am always surprised to hear a pop song that doesn’t fully repulse me— especially when it has some degree of positivity instilled into it, and want understand why it doesn’t, and where there is emotional hitting in, and I have to break it down and feel and mentalize it. I would talk about socionics, but this doesn’t have an allowance for here. I will briefly say that it is probably also partially ITR-related. I believe it has a lot to do with cognitive functions, and with Si tertiary and where I associate certain things with (a person I once knew that I had intense emotional exchanges with), and I don’t feel it would be necessary to elaborate further on in this particular post. I do believe some things are more enneagram-related and others are more cognition or outside of any typological scope.. Well, there is the analysis in regards to myself, I built this on, I started just with sharing I type this as a 7, and the tritype is probably 792/4 (brief sentence below this and the next one and the other paragraph), but it is my nature to vastly analyze my own sphere and where my own resonance is. And I’m in a constancy of traversing my own intra hole. Yes, I wrote portion this more for myself than others.


It’s definitely not something that is resonant with my own inherent style, but it’s something catchy that wouldn’t bother me if it was put on as long as it wasn’t in excess and there wasn’t an influx of positive songs, or if I had a certain mood where I needed a rush of sensory energy release. This song isn’t overly, overly positive, it’s just a bit more upbeat is the right thing to say.


As far as the tritype, I am thinking 792/794. The artwork in the music video is a bit 4ish fix..


Anyhow, it is interesting how one’s own emotional experience can have a hand in whether they repulse or attract to something that isn’t in their inherent resonance.. (Again, in this case, with a person I had known named Kashea, this song made a nostalgia and I realize now, unconsciously made me associate it with her own energy, and she made me to feel valued and seen. So really, the attraction I have to some of this song has do with her and a loose association). And interestingly enough, yes, Kashea would’ve been a core 7. She would’ve been an SX/SO or SO/SX 739/794… (3w4 or 4w3 heart).


And yes, I believe enneagram (and also cognition) both have roles in this. My cognition made me process this song via tertiary Si, and it led to the heart of my 4 core needs and desires, of how she had made me to feel valued and special, and thus, it resonated in me, an emotional nostalgia of those times of myself being acknowledged and valued. I realize that other typology talk is discouraged in permission, but hopefully this wouldn’t be if it bears context to enneagram, as with this, it worked as an organ system, with them all feeding into another, which is how I view them in general, and I’ve made a metaphor for this elsewhere.
The other reasons for why this song didn’t repulse me fully, were for the other reasons I said above, but I believe that my experience and where I make the association to my past banking of emotional memories, biased a lens as well.


There is a deeper reason underlying why someone has an attraction to something that opposes their inherent taste.. I would say emotional memories are probably there in most cases.. With associative memory, especially in specific cognition that I won’t entail further.


I actually even now remember the exact thing that made me associate this to herself, but I won’t write about it more…


My attraction to this song is 80% the concept of how I was made to feel in the past, relative to mt way of processing cognitively, to how it activated past emotional needs, where the arteries of my heart and its emotions wrap around and feed in, permeating to the rest of my essence and actions.. This root would be where it does have enneagram relation, and how it bleeds up in something that doesn’t reflect the heart of myself directly, because it is a secondary/referred direction of it, that ties into a subjective process that shows up in a connection to something unrelated. Where the stained blood of what would show looks contrary from where it originated.

https://youtu.be/H4v7gq4WwTU?si=9KPBCxSuLLJCjmIJ