What does a Se base stuck on Ni look like? (Basically, one that's developing Ni, and is using it more often than they should, despite it being a 1D Ni function for them).
I'm curious.
Ni grip.
What does a Se base stuck on Ni look like? (Basically, one that's developing Ni, and is using it more often than they should, despite it being a 1D Ni function for them).
I'm curious.
grips are defined by being stuck
ur weak functions u cant use to a high level to solve ur problems (this inability must never be seen as a consistent hard rule)
u get into ur weak functions when u get depressed
u get depressed when things arent going ur way and have to do things u struggle wiht so much u fail at it
there was something about MBTI ESxPs and anxiety. its like they agonize if they should or shouldnt do something but they never come up with smart ideas or general idea about what to do. this can be after being shamed or judged for something so it becomes a complex (grip) for them. it can also be something that defines their persoanlities like a SLE who wants to be really masculine due to being shamed for it once then goes around shaming everyone else for it after he's hard focused on achieving waht he was shamed about.
maybe grips and depression are related to ur place in the social environment. everyone has something they do and when u fail at something u get shamed for it, yet everyone believes others should have a level of understanding and ability somewhere to be regarded as moral. yet if u live with ppl the same as u at least one of u would have to develop diffetenly from the other bc each has to handle different aspects of life. thats how rarted life is
maybe machinegunkelly has been in Ni grip - does an album for his haters, uses drugs to get into himself
i know at least 2 nazi SLEs. both of them can be described as schizophrenic. u know all the conspiracy theory shit, but then theres also racial superiority and a justification to use other ppl to further ur own goals, women are supposed to serve men (something like as if their Ni is better than other ppl's Ni and as a proud nazi he wont back down for anyone), they can hurt themselves (and others) in the process of achieving something (Rich piana?) bc they feel like they have to prove others something but then they actually go and do it (this is not the same as succeeding)
trying to solve existential issues by indulging in drugs (maybe mushrooms may actually be good but i dont know if they are inclined learn from them??), lifting, extreme exercise and sports, sex, money, power, violence (this sounds like Se grip in IxI or Se loop in ExE)
dan bilzerian, rich piana, machine gun kelly, jake paul, connor mcgregor
Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 04-23-2022 at 04:24 AM.
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Please, do not use MBTI to explain Socionics or blend one of them within another system, that wouldn't be an "alright" approach to do so.
And also, I might prefer to know the source that said the suggestive is both "a bit" and "really" unconscious or is it just your own interpretation?
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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Inferior in socionics terms means:
1) partial acceptance and readiness to adjust what was said
2) clueless how to finalize execution
3) generating seemingly compatible solutions that may lack actual validity
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I've been thinking about this lately. My understanding right now: One can distinguish these 5 states.
It's difficult to use the inferior (= suggestive) because the person "flips" into a strange, unadapted state. Not easy to do with other people around.
1. Balancing. The person is slightly oriented towards it and it balances the person and prevents him from becoming too one-sided in the base. This is considered a healthy state.
base ---x-------- inferior
2. Pseudo-adaptation. The person is not really using the inferior but has developed several pseudo-adaptations around it.
3. Projected. The person is too much in the base to the point that the inferior is cut off and turns negative and projected. A form of split personality. The inferior becomes autonomous.
base x--- ---(x) inferior
4. Too much inferior. Childish, unadapted behaviour. Artists and crackpots(?). Can be a source for creativity, but the person is not stable.
base ----------x-- inferior
5. Integrated. The problem of the split between base-inferior has been solved through personal development and by developing other functions also. The goal of a lifetime.
base ------x------ inferior
To these one could maybe add duality as a special case, but then we are talking about solving the problem by outsourcing it.
Sources:
von Franz writes about the inferior function. I think it was in the book "The problem of the puer aethernus" and in "Lectures on Jung's typology". Jung also writes about it in chapter X. Check them out for details.
Last edited by Tallmo; 04-26-2022 at 07:19 AM.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
It's actually quite possible for a type to be stuck on their suggestive function. For an extrovert type to be stuck on their suggestive function this would be in conflict with their lead ego function as @persimmonism suggested.
So how could this be possible? What would it look like for someone to prefer their suggestive Ni over their lead Se?
This person would be stuck in inert solipsism, thinking things over and over and not coming to any conclusion or consistency. Without the presence of strong Ni, this type will lose themselves in this function.
SxEs need to jumpstart their Se by engaging with their external reality again, pushing, pulling, and moving things.
People change all the time, socionics may be static but people aren't. You can disengage with your ego block depending on your mental state.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I can use whatever I need to use to understand the system and make sense of it. You can't really say for certain that it's not an alright approach because what I am thinking of and sorting through is not an official approach or an official system. It's just me thinking of a hypothetical situation, and finding similarities between the systems, and wondering if it's possible. I have the question and the answer, but I want to know the process. How and if it happens.Originally Posted by Deductive
Inferior, by my definition, was referring to the 1D DS valuing function of Ni. Valued, but 'inferior'. I guess you could say that it mostly equates to 2 by those definitions and some of 3 > 1.
That's interesting. Do you think that MAYBE a lot of these so-called immature Beta NF who get typed, are actually at stage four of this? They're using their inferior too much, and aren't actually EIE/IEI. That could be a reason for a lot of overtyped Beta NFs, to be honest.
Wouldn't 'duality' or hanging around Ni ego people (in the case of Se ego) help them get from 4 - 5 though? It's not total outsourcing if it helps you to develop those functions and bridge the gap between 4 - 5, IMHO if it works well enough.
Yeah, people can definitely get into a slump and want to 'escape' in an unhealthy way (i.e. by using 1d/2d functions) and lose sight of their base/creative functions. They disengage as you say and it can create a state similar to looping/stuck in a rut, but not the exact same. As you said, Socionics stays static but people don't. That's one of the main problems also with how people interpret socionics. They assume that people will also be static, like the system. But people aren't always.
I can't really say. I'm not that familiar with this. Maybe some artists do it.
I didn't mean these as stages. I just listed the alternatives I know of. The order is random.Wouldn't 'duality' or hanging around Ni ego people (in the case of Se ego) help them get from 4 - 5 though? It's not total outsourcing if it helps you to develop those functions and bridge the gap between 4 - 5, IMHO if it works well enough.
About duality. I don't think duality helps you develop, because the dual takes over your inferior function. You can't use it because the dual is too strong here. Everything feels fine as long as the dual is around, but when you are alone, the inferior is as undeveloped as before. That's what von Franz says.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I never said you aren't allowed to understand the system and make sense of it but I'd prefer to see a pizza with a proper topping such as meats than pineapples on it. And in the other words, to combine or fuse these unrelated things would create a recipe of disaster definitely.
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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
probably paranoia of the future and where all you actions lead to and probably feeling like everything you do is worthless in the grand scheme of things and a hyper focus on trying to do things that have some long term affect.
You can put whatever you want on a pizza, though. It's just a doughy base. You can even put Nutella on it if you want. And dates and parma ham go well. You can mix fruit and meat if you know what you're doing. If you know and make a foundation, you can adjust things to make it work and improve it.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If you were hyper fixated on the inferior because you can't push through with your dominant function.
No, and the point is, do not blend MBTI with Socionics, they are different.
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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
It's common to want to improve 1D but valued functions- I'm not sure this is even a problem. I see a lot of IEIs join gyms to try and improve their physicality for example. I had a theory once that trying to become your dual is kind of a way to be a celebrity. A lot of rap music is about the funny mixture of Se and Ni as it needs to be hard and sexual and appealing but also has meaningful insights about the world. Many SLEs in prison enjoy reading Ni books about spirituality. I'm IEI and a sexual victim type- but I also have fantasies of just totally pwning people in a physical way with a campy smirk on my face.
LII males- I've seen them be so stern and serious and dry but then occassionally will say something really Fe-ish. Cuz it's 1D but valued.
Sounds like it'd look like classic semi-duality. I'll look.
I think that honestly is appropriate for how the Biden-Obama relationship formed. Like both were like that to each other.
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An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
same..was just listening to that Madonna tune Frozen..very mystical dreamy IEI-like..
Grip is Jungian, not from MBTI or Socionics
The possibility of Grip increases during a time of crisis that lasts for a long time and the leading function fails to solve the problem
Grip occurres when ESxPs ignore their Ni for a long time and depended entirely on their Se
ESxPs' view of the world begins to become "dark", they feel that a catastrophe is about to happen (ex: someone is going to die, something is going to explode, something bad is going to happen , etc )
They become completely enclosed in this thing, they can't stop thinking about it
All their conclusions will be bad, pessimistic, inaccurate
They will isolate themselves from others and lose confidence in everyone
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