Results 1 to 40 of 211

Thread: Conservatives are insane

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    if it isn't Mr. Nice Guy Ave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,146
    Mentioned
    247 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    @Hardware Punk
    There is absolutely no issue with viewing politics as 'my side' vs 'your side'. However- the vast overwhelming majority of people have a very narrow understanding of what the 'sides' even are, and only align themselves with the socially constructed understanding of 'left' and 'right' independent from actual history and logic. You have Nietzsche in your signature. People think of Christians these days as 'right wingers' and even 'authoritarian'. You and I know very well how Nietzsche thought of Christians [and how they actually are]
    I mostly agree, but my point was that seeing it as 'my side' vs 'your side' is, in America, a byproduct of the bipartisan system - that there are only two sides because there are only two major parties.

    I hear you that most people have no knowledge of what these sides even mean, both from a historical or philosophical perspective.

    Funny thing about Nietzsche is that some people nowadays even claim he didn't hate Christianity. I'm referring to the Youtuber Natural Hypertrophy (who's content I like but I disagree with him on this point, since it seems to me he is trying to not alienate his Christian viewers and yet, at the same time, speak on Nietzsche). This does show how much the general public is enmeshed in current understandings of 'right' and 'left'.

    That being said, I don't think left vs right is anything more than a paradigm, and it doesn't necessarily reflect all the nuances in political reality, even if you strip away the clichés that are concealing what these terms mean historically and philosophically.
    Join my Enneagram Discord: https://discord.gg/ND4jCAcs

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Hardware Punk
    There are sides in the USA however. The bi-partisan system just exploits them. It's very real indeed. All of the problems in the U.S stem from its racial issues.

    Nietzsche didn't 'hate' Christianity, because 'One does not hate as long as one has a low esteem of someone'. He thought of it as a moralism the weak use to control the strong. Nietzsche railed against the Christianity of Paul and the apostles, not the Christ figure itself. I have no doubt Christ was one of the 'free spirits' he championed. I think his ideal, just as mine was the “Roman Caesar with Christ’s soul”.

    Left vs Right doesn't reflect anything because there is no actual concrete definition of what these categories are. It means something different for anyone. I see many people who consider themselves 'right' as left and many people who consider themselves 'left' as right. My understanding of left and right is the same as it was in the French parliament during the revolution. The right is the status quo and the left is the opposition.

  3. #3
    if it isn't Mr. Nice Guy Ave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,146
    Mentioned
    247 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    Nietzsche didn't 'hate' Christianity, because 'One does not hate as long as one has a low esteem of someone'. He thought of it as a moralism the weak use to control the strong. Nietzsche railed against the Christianity of Paul and the apostles, not the Christ figure itself. I have no doubt Christ was one of the 'free spirits' he championed. I think his ideal, just as mine was the “Roman Caesar with Christ’s soul”.
    I don't think this is entirely accurate. Yes, he saw Christian morality as a form of what he called 'slave morality', and I suppose we could debate what it means to 'hate' in this case, but based on his writings, it is pretty clear he also hated (or at least, rejected) Christianity because it placed 'the ideal' in a metaphysical realm, ie outside of this life here on earth, and also because it encouraged pity as a virtue. He does criticize Paul's Christianity, and perhaps I don't know enough about his writings to distinguish between how he viewed the Christ figure vs Paul, but I nevertheless, I seriously doubt that he would have recognized the 'Christ figure', as understood by the Christian church for the last 2000 years, Paul or no Paul, to have been a free spirit.

    I do think it's fair to say Nietzsche hated Christianity, it's pretty obvious whenever he writes on it that the resentment comes out, not that I entirely blame him for that. You can sense the resentment even if he doesn't explicitly say 'I hate this'. But people, especially in recent years, have tried to make it seem as though Nietzsche was somehow more sympathetic to Christianity than he actually was, which is really hyporcritcal and odd to me.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Hardware Punk
    This is not something I am interested in 'debating'. Re-read 'The Anti-christ'.

  5. #5
    if it isn't Mr. Nice Guy Ave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,146
    Mentioned
    247 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    @Hardware Punk
    This is not something I am interested in 'debating'. Re-read 'The Anti-christ'.
    Dude.

    We should not deck out and embellish Christianity: it has waged a war to the death against this higher type of man, it has put all the deepest instincts of this type under its ban, it has developed its concept of evil, of the Evil One himself, out of these instincts—the strong man as the typical reprobate, the “outcast among men.” Christianity has taken the part of all the weak, the low, the botched; it has made an ideal out of antagonism to all the self-preservative instincts of sound life; it has corrupted even the faculties of those natures that are intellectually most vigorous, by representing the highest intellectual values as sinful, as misleading, as full of temptation. The most lamentable example: the corruption of Pascal, who believed that his intellect had been destroyed by original sin, whereas it was actually destroyed by Christianity!—
    -The AntiChirst, aphorism 5

    Christianity is called the religion of pity.—Pity stands in opposition to all the tonic passions that augment the energy of the feeling of aliveness: it is a depressant. A man loses power when he pities. Through pity that drain upon strength which suffering works is multiplied a thousandfold. Suffering is made contagious by pity; under certain circumstances it may lead to a total sacrifice of life and living energy—a loss out of all proportion to the magnitude of the cause (—the case of the death of the Nazarene)
    -TheAntiChrist aphorism 7

    Under Christianity neither morality nor religion has any point of contact with actuality. It offers purely imaginary causes (“God,” “soul,” “ego,” “spirit,” “free will”—or even “unfree”), and purely imaginary effects (“sin,” “salvation,” “grace,” “punishment,” “forgiveness of sins”). Intercourse between imaginary beings (“God,” “spirits,” “souls”); an imaginary natural history (anthropocentric; a total denial of the concept of natural causes); an imaginary psychology (misunderstandings of self, misinterpretations of agreeable or disagreeable general feelings—for example, of the states of the nervus sympathicus with the help of the sign-language of religio-ethical balderdash—, “repentance,” “pangs of conscience,” “temptation by the devil,” “the presence of God”); an imaginary teleology (the “kingdom of God,” “the last judgment,” “eternal life”).—This purely fictitious world, greatly to its disadvantage, is to be differentiated from the world of dreams; the latter at least reflects reality, whereas the former falsifies it, cheapens it and denies it. Once the concept of “nature” had been opposed to the concept of “God,” the word “natural” necessarily took on the meaning of “abominable”—the whole of that fictitious world has its sources in hatred of the natural (—the real!—), and is no more than evidence of a profound uneasiness in the presence of reality.... This explains everything. Who alone has any reason for living his way out of reality? The man who suffers under it. But to suffer from reality one must be a botched reality.... The preponderance of pains over pleasures is the cause of this fictitious morality and religion: but such a preponderance also supplies the formula for décadence....
    -TheAntiChrist, aphorism 15

    The Christian concept of a god—the god as the patron of the sick, the god as a spinner of cobwebs, the god as a spirit—is one of the most corrupt concepts that has ever been set up in the world: it probably touches low-water mark in the ebbing evolution of the god-type. God degenerated into the contradiction of life. Instead of being its transfiguration and eternal Yea! In him war is declared on life, on nature, on the will to live! God becomes the formula for every slander upon the “here and now,” and for every lie about the “beyond”! In him nothingness is deified, and the will to nothingness is made holy!...
    -TheAntiChrist aphorism 18

    In my condemnation of Christianity I surely hope I do no injustice to a related religion with an even larger number of believers: I allude to Buddhism. Both are to be reckoned among the nihilistic religions—they are both décadence religions—but they are separated from each other in a very remarkable way. For the fact that he is able to compare them at all the critic of Christianity is indebted to the scholars of India.—Buddhism is a hundred times as realistic as Christianity—it is part of its living heritage that it is able to face problems objectively and coolly; it is the product of long centuries of philosophical speculation. The concept, “god,” was already disposed of before it appeared. Buddhism is the only genuinely positive religion to be encountered in history, and this applies even to its epistemology (which is a strict phenomenalism). It does not speak of a “struggle with sin,” but, yielding to reality, of the “struggle with suffering.” Sharply differentiating itself from Christianity, it puts the self-deception that lies in moral concepts behind it; it is, in my phrase, beyond good and evil.—The two physiological facts upon which it grounds itself and upon which it bestows its chief attention are: first, an excessive sensitiveness to sensation, which manifests itself as a refined susceptibility to pain, and secondly, an extraordinary spirituality, a too protracted concern with concepts and logical procedures, under the influence of which the instinct of personality has yielded to a notion of the “impersonal.” (—Both of these states will be familiar to a few of my readers, the objectivists, by experience, as they are to me). These physiological states produced a depression, and Buddha tried to combat it by hygienic measures. Against it he prescribed a life in the open, a life of travel; moderation in eating and a careful selection of foods; caution in the use of intoxicants; the same caution in arousing any of the passions that foster a bilious habit and heat the blood; finally, no worry, either on one’s own account or on account of others. He encourages ideas that make for either quiet contentment or good cheer—he finds means to combat ideas of other sorts. He understands good, the state of goodness, as something which promotes health. Prayer is not included, and neither is asceticism. There is no categorical imperative nor any disciplines, even within the walls of a monastery (—it is always possible to leave—). These things would have been simply means of increasing the excessive sensitiveness above mentioned. For the same reason he does not advocate any conflict with unbelievers; his teaching is antagonistic to nothing so much as to revenge, aversion, ressentiment (—“enmity never brings an end to enmity”: the moving refrain of all Buddhism....) And in all this he was right, for it is precisely these passions which, in view of his main regiminal purpose, are unhealthful. The mental fatigue that he observes, already plainly displayed in too much “objectivity” (that is, in the individual’s loss of interest in himself, in loss of balance and of “egoism”), he combats by strong efforts to lead even the spiritual interests back to the ego. In Buddha’s teaching egoism is a duty. The “one thing needful,” the question “how can you be delivered from suffering,” regulates and determines the whole spiritual diet. (—Perhaps one will here recall that Athenian who also declared war upon pure “scientificality,” to wit, Socrates, who also elevated egoism to the estate of a morality).
    -TheAntiChirst aphorism 20

    Buddhism, I repeat, is a hundred times more austere, more honest, more objective. It no longer has to justify its pains, its susceptibility to suffering, by interpreting these things in terms of sin—it simply says, as it simply thinks, “I suffer.”
    TheAntiChrist aphorism 23

    Here I barely touch upon the problem of the origin of Christianity. The first thing necessary to its solution is this: that Christianity is to be understood only by examining the soil from which it sprung—it is not a reaction against Jewish instincts; it is their inevitable product; it is simply one more step in the awe-inspiring logic of the Jews. In the words of the Saviour, “salvation is of the Jews.”—The second thing to remember is this: that the psychological type of the Galilean is still to be recognized, but it was only in its most degenerate form (which is at once maimed and overladen with foreign features) that it could serve in the manner in which it has been used: as a type of the Saviour of mankind.—
    TheAntiChrist aphorism 24

    The Jews are the most remarkable people in the history of the world, for when they were confronted with the question, to be or not to be, they chose, with perfectly unearthly deliberation, to be at any price: this price involved a radical falsification of all nature, of all naturalness, of all reality, of the whole inner world, as well as of the outer. They put themselves against all those conditions under which, hitherto, a people had been able to live, or had even been permitted to live; out of themselves they evolved an idea which stood in direct opposition to natural conditions—one by one they distorted religion, civilization, morality, history and psychology until each became a contradiction of its natural significance. We meet with the same phenomenon later on, in an incalculably exaggerated form, but only as a copy: the Christian church, put beside the “people of God,” shows a complete lack of any claim to originality. Precisely for this reason the Jews are the most fateful people in the history of the world: their influence has so falsified the reasoning of mankind in this matter that today the Christian can cherish anti-Semitism without realizing that it is no more than the final consequence of Judaism.
    TheAntiChrist aphorism 24

    The gospels are invaluable as evidence of the corruption that was already persistent within the primitive community. That which Paul, with the cynical logic of a rabbi, later developed to a conclusion was at bottom merely a process of decay that had begun with the death of the Saviour.
    -TheAntiChrist aphorism 44

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1932...-h/19322-h.htm

    Bruh. I could go on and on, but everyone reading this gets the picture. Nietzsche hated Christianity, based on the very book you claim I should re-read. He hated the fact it placed the ideal in another life, he hated the fact it was a religion of pity, and he doesn't consider that Paul perverted Christianity, but only acted to worsen a process that was set forth by the death of the "Savior" and "Nazarene".

    So much for the pipe dream of a supposed bromance between Nietzsche and 'Christ the free spirit'.
    Join my Enneagram Discord: https://discord.gg/ND4jCAcs

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Hardware Punk
    I will give you a response to this shortly. I am under the influences right now. LSD in particular.

  7. #7
    if it isn't Mr. Nice Guy Ave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6,146
    Mentioned
    247 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    @Hardware Punk
    I will give you a response to this shortly. I am under the influences right now. LSD in particular.
    Sure, take your time. Tbh with you though, I don't particularly care to debate this as I feel I've made my points. I don't really care to 'win' here. If you have any interesting comments that you think could add to the discussion regarding what I posted though, feel free to send them here.
    Join my Enneagram Discord: https://discord.gg/ND4jCAcs

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •