This is why I need to stop hating IEIs so much. I’ve seen one of them recently explain to a sensor how someone who is quiet is holding inner turmoil. The sensor actually thought that person was just exactly what their face showed and it’s impossible they can be any other mood whatsoever.Originally Posted by Alive
yeah it's the Ni that just unconciously wants to get to the root of things. when they notice someone lying for example, they usually think about why the person lied, what are the underlying reasons for someone to do that etc. I think IEI are better psychologists than ILI and LII for example because logical types care less about other people and might not be inclined to invest a lot of time into strangers. for sensing types, especially Ni PolR, it is almost impossible to grasp hidden internal motivations of other people.
Ni is glorified in socionics. It’s honestly kind of hilarious.
Positive traits are misattributed to Ni types, and negative traits are misattributed to sensing types (w/unvalued Ni).
Ni polrs get the worst of it. There’s a reason why there are so few self-identified Ni-polrs here!! And no, it’s not because socionics is some topic that only appeals to intuitives. Actually I’m pretty sure several of you IEIs and EIEs and LIIs are Delta STs in heavy denial.
And no, I don’t want to hear what you think about low-sensing traits. I’ve seen enough of your humble brags (not on this thread but elsewhere on the forum):
- intuitives are poorly adjusted to society (because we’re smarter than the ignorant masses)
- intuitives are more depressed (because our emotional pain is DEEPER than yours)
- intuitives don’t eat enough (thinness is valued in our society)
- etc.
As much as End annoys me with his “I could wreck shit ni” comment, at least he is honest about what he thinks.
Also, sorry @Eudaemonia for not answering your question in good faith the first time. (My first comment was a clumsy attempt to point out all of the absurd shit people say about sensors, but I suspect several people saw what I wrote and and agreed with it). I’m going to excuse myself from this thread now.
Last edited by Poptart; 04-22-2022 at 05:33 PM.
I mean it's understandable that someone inert and torn away from the real world would lose themselves in power fantasies and delusions of grandeur.
Edit: I also believe that there are self typed Ni egos who aren't Ni egos. I know you won't say who you think they are, but I am guessing now lol.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
and when I say some Ni polr see the world plainly I mean to compare it to a depressed IEI/ILI imploding on themselves and not really living fully/contributing to society. They don’t know how to exist..like any depressed person really. A ni polr who is not well-rounded would see the world too simply and miss out on helping people that truly need their help..lesson is we all need to be well-rounded. (They miss out on helping people they probably would truly wish to help deep down). A well-developed IEI may ignore signs of people being in mental distress..but I don’t think a well-rounded ESE/LSE would. We need the strong ones to lead the way.
Everyone uses ni, perhaps it’s even what makes human human. Having low ni doesn’t mean that the way that type uses ni isn’t important. It’s just better if people develop their weak functions, if they can. I think it helps them to be better at their lead/creative.
Ni is enriching and keeps us going when si or fe have failed us
Anyway we don’t really ‘have’ ni or have any of the functions..our different brains simply focus on using and producing different types of information. Socionics, as a system is not sophisticated enough to accurately depict how information processing works in the human mind, there is much to be improved.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-26-2022 at 08:07 AM.
You praise the most delusional person as honest? What does that says about you?
Lol I mean he doesn’t couch his opinion in a humble brag. Maybe honest is the wrong word
I understand what End meant, since high dimensional Ni users can say things than can cut deep (regardless of whether they are truthful or not), which I will refrain from doing in this instance, because believe it or not, it's my duals PoLR and I instinctively avoid using it in a negative fashion. I prefer to instill self-confidence rather than attempt to destroy people's egos. I'm surprised you are against that as an Alpha, but I will admit that I don't know any SEIs on a personal level.
Curious, what do you type as?
ESE
Since I read the part where you said your dual is Ni PoLR, I'll presume LII then. Youre Ne-less, though, and it makes you judgmental via postulating many things because you assume and jump to conclusions as a result of failing to consider alternatives. Ne is laughable for you. So is Fe base, youre too much of a filterless dickhead. LSI is more likely...alternatives go over your head far more than they go over mine, even. Youd have to have an IQ of 2 to be any 2D+ Ne type.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 04-26-2022 at 02:18 AM.
Haha. Fair enough. I hope you got it out of your system.
It's very easy to see when you see someone investing in stocks, especially long term buys. Both my LSE anf SLE friends freak out about stocks dipping and rising, when with long term stocks you are supposed to just hold and not fret on the up and down waves like it's a rollercoaster. My SLE friend will look at the daily changes and be like "Man it's dropping.", I just think, it's dropping today, but tomorrow it will probably be up, but who cares it's a stable company so in the long run it will be either much higher or not much lower than it is now, he just doesn't see it that way, but in contrast he also buys shares of silver which are life time stocks, so he either freaks out about little daily changes or he tries to look til the end of time to see what will be valuable, no inbetween. My LSE friend says he has to avoid looking at his phone or he'll freak out.
I've also seen an LSE freak out when they saw Elon Musks automatic landing rockets, like "OH MY GOSH THIS MAN IS CREATING THE FUTURE!", but those rockets just feel like the natural next step in space tech.
Live in the moment. Spontaneous. Improvising. Winging it. Things classified as P in MBTI. I feel like I'm just stating the obvious and not contributing much here, though.
They see the obvious. If Ni is about insight, i sure am often missing insight on what's right in front of my little nose.
Unfortunately for you, however, you are Ne-less.
Feel free to go off and die in a ditch somewhere.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
High Si types are good at visual thinking, when high Nio types are good at metaphor thinking
Ni PoLR makes people open ended, feels kinda like they are floating along going places but in circles nowhere.
For example. I recently made a huge move across the country to go to school. My LSE friend said he would roommate with me, when I ask him his plans like "So are you gonna go to the school out there or what? If not what are you gonna do out there." asking ultimately what's his end goal for moving out there, school, work, career? I was shocked he had no answer and just wanted to help out with rent and me even asking him his plans made him think I didn't want or need his help, that's what he focused on, not. Just so weird that those big things did not cross his mind. No real end goal, he kinda wants to do real estate, but works in sales, tries to move up in sales, but then wants to take real estate classes, takes real estate classes, but goes back to sales. Sure he wants to make more money but isn't choosing where or how, he just takes whatever job pays well it seems like. In contrast I take easy jobs to pay bills and it looks like I'm just mucking about but I have an all time end goal of what I want to do in the back of my mind even if I'm not actively doing it now, and I don't like the feeling of being aimless like that.
Somebody gave a good example of the LSE husband. LSE husband complains to IEE wife that the captions on the movie they are watching are annoying, IEE says "Ok then turn it off." LSE turns off the tv LOL.
@Xelor any thoughts, it seems like you are surrounded by it.
It just depends on the day at this point.
Last edited by Ocean Man; 05-09-2022 at 02:49 AM.
This was constructive in a way if this is Ni, it is confusing but ok ok.
I saw someone say somewhere that LSE Ni PoLR shows up when they hit middle age and think "what did I work so much for, now what?"
And ESE "who do I care for now?"
I imagine if an LSE and ESE got together long term, they might immediately have a kid, or have a kid to fix relationship issues, and all the love might go to the kid.
So I imagine if an LSE and ESE got together and had kids, it probably hurts them the most when the kids move out. "Who do I work so hard to take care of now? Myself?!" and "Who do I care for and worry about now?". God forbid either of them is a type 2 or w2, recipe for a mid life crisis. Serious case of empty nest syndrome.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-18-2022 at 09:55 PM.
My ex was an IEI and she has dyscalculia which makes it difficult to perceive time on a number line or anything related to mathematical distances in space or time, so Ni doesn't necessarily imply good sense of time. She could plan the long range future sure, but not keep track of time as a concrete number or even intuitively.
And being Autistic also makes it very confusing to decipher metaphors and abstract language, which probably has some effect on how my creative writing skills are expressed. For this reason, I have a love hate relationship with poetry- "God damn this makes no fucking sense, but god damn it sounds so beautiful!"
Conscientiousness is a thing, independent of Socionics.
In terms of big five, I get high and low results on conscientiousness at different time periods. Ofcourse it could be said that I answered based on my self perception, but my outward behavior was completely different and people around also described me that way as conscientious and unconscientious. So if I were to explain this in terms of typology, I would say I was shifting through subtypes.
Not according to some forumites. Big 5 IS socionics, to them.
My family still love me very much and I love them.
I’ve noticed a lot of people who I think have 1D Ni are always asking, “why did you do this?”, “why did you do that?”, or getting upset because someone’s mood has changed and they can’t fathom what changed it.
Something I’ve noticed every 1D Ni type do: when they care about you and they get mad, they will dig up the most out-of-left-field thing you did like five years ago and start an argument about it (ex. you canceled plans to go to the grocery store with me once in 2011 so I “know you’re unreliable”)
Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 05-18-2022 at 09:13 PM.
nothing wrong with waiting 2 hours and doing something and have it be beautiful rather than it being 'efficient' all the time. ((I mean work shit notwithstanding we all gotta pay the bills lolol)) Efficiency is overrated- so you were timely, but it looks like a sadistic and smokehouse piece of dogshit. What is this feces I'm looking at? You made the deadline- but you didn't make my heartline.
I miss Grendel's rants about Te lol. Vore the Te.
I wish I could walk bitchy too.
wanted to add: 1D Ni also is bad, inaccurate insight. LSE woman would think bad, abusive people were good and she thought .... well nobody is 'good' but you know, non-abusive people, were the abusive ones. Ugggh I hate that I have to be objective and fair here- but I mean, it did have a shred of truth. 1D isn't 0D. With 2D Ne valuing too as well - they might be mediocre-ishly good at pointing out the *potential* of something being abusive but it's unfair and unrealistic.
I think maybe because IEIs Ne is 3D but unvalued - we're more correct about potential problems, but don't assert ourselves enough in the real world society cuz unvalued Ne, and 1D Se & Te - so they end up winning a lot until it all kind of collapses in a convergent point and people wise up to LSE bullshit and see the IEI was right all along. We weren't being naive fairytale idealistic Disney Queen freaks- the LSE actually was the one doing that, and the IEI was the hard realist. IEI really does have to 'stop playing victim' for this to happen though. but Not playing the victim doesn't mean you admit to abusive things LSE made up in their head that u didn't do. "I'll stop playing victim when you stop being an offender" lolol.
lmao well like I said, this woman had full-on NPD as well as being LSE. Not all LSEs are that bad.
SLI just seem like good natured workaholics that quietly and passively fix the things IEEs tell them to do. So yeah I guess they aren't as bad. Of course now that I said that, an evil grimdark SLI is gonna enter my life.
Seriously one day I was thinking how fortunate I am for no sounds at night, next day hell breaks loose with the new people doing housewarming American pie thingsOf course now that I said that, an evil grimdark SLI is gonna enter my life.
lack of thoughts about one's future and about the implications of past events on one's life, personality or thoughts, lack of thoughts on higher meaning in life, not being concerned with eschatological or afterlife thoughts, having little experience of 'growth' or personal journey, scepticism about mystical and religious thoughts
this is especially for Ni in the superego
My mother is most likely an ESE and she cannot budget to save her life. She'll always buy random comfort items, mostly for others, for the now. I've read about ESE's Ni PoLR and low logic leading to poor money managing.
I think ther's a huge difference in Suggestive Ni and PolR.
Regarding Ni PolR, both ESE and LSE fear the future, but their answer to it is different:
- LSE tries to maximize his economical stability (to a certain degree) to prevent any possible future event to hurt him. It's like "If I make lot of moneys I will easily counter any bad event of my life" (just an exemple). Problem itself is not "specific" but generic, and countered with a specific goal. But they remain somewhat creative and opened to the kind of work, as long it gives them stability. It's not they seek to become super rich, but just to be stable. It makes a very good combination with his dual (EII, Fi lead and Si HA).
- ESEs seeks a lot of support from friends. Unhealtier ESEs are unstable and devoured by anxiety. Tries to be gentle and kind with anyone and fear to be considered bad by others. They need a partner who provides structural thinking to reduce their anxiety. LII's consequential vision of facts and phenoma helps the ESE to be more self confident that they will live well. LII would say something like "Don't worry, if you continue doing [insert job] you will make moneys" and motivate the ESE in pragmatical aspects of life. Still in the end ESEs remains a very chill type (alfa values), so they aren't always hyper motivated in doing money per se.
Ni suggestive is completely different and, ironically, self explanatory: Ni is literally a romantic suggestion related to future and important concepts of the world. It's a lot common to see Se lead worring for a dystopian future.
It is like a superficial mystical aura which opposes their immanence and strong presence in the physical world.
It is mostly traduced in:
- They easily believe in conspiracy theories. A lot of MBTI mistype is due to considering these people Ni dom or aux.
Important to note that Jung himself described ESFP/ESTP's Ni underlying the importance of this mystical aura in the most unhealty people of this type.
I love how socionics takes back this and underlines the importance of these aspect in Se leads. MBTI completely erased this, despite being said by Jung himself.
I recommend to read Jung's book "Psychological Types", because it's a wonderful description which is way more similiar to what socionics says.
- most of history tyrants or evil commanders in fiction are SLE, and almost all of them had a romantic view of politics and power. I'm sure Trump being SLE, and so character like Homelander.
To SEE/SLE future and history happear blurred (in terms of meaning), similiar to phantoms which create a mystical suggestion in them.
Last edited by Lesri; 07-02-2022 at 09:21 AM.
I was thinking about a very important aspect of ESE's Ni PolR, and it is very useful to notice them from the outside.
They are very anxious and have difficulty planning, and it seems that for this reason they search for some "spiritual" guidance, which is superstitious or religious. They need to cover their fear.
Every ESE I know loves horoscope, even males. They read it and share a lot of things about it on social medias. Obviously not everyone really believes in it, they know it's just a game, but the compulsivity they have in sharing so much things about it makes their superstition clearly shining through. It's like they think "I know it's not true, but I'll hold on to anything to think things will be okay (because I'm afraid)". I think their Ne mobilizing covers their Ni PolR. They try to joke a lot and seek joviality often so as not to think about the negavity that the need to deal with Ni brings to them. They complain a lot about things and something use horoscope to "joke" about it.
This is a similiar principle to that which makes many of them believe in karma or religion in general. Some of them makes good actions just because they hope to be rewarded by "karma"/"God".
Surely I explained it very badly, but I am sure it is a trait that allows you to type many ese in a very easy and trivial way.
SEEs are also very similar in this, but theirs is a real suggestion to it. I noticed a lot of SEE are very prone to speak about the "scheme behind things", while ESEs treat this as a game and seem extremely disinterested in discussing things like philosophy or spiritual concepts for their own sake. SEEs are opened and interested to discussions relating Ni, despite remaining very superficial. Infact, this brings them to believe too much in conspiracy theories.
Jung explains this magnificently in his book Psychological Types (as I mentioned in the previous post). Ironic that MBTI didn't take this into consideration, but socionics did.
My mum is an ESE and I think her ni is kinda weak- or our relationship is messed up. Every convo we have feels like we’ve just met each other and she is making polite chit-chat. This is because our relationship has always lacked depth because I never spoke to her about the big important things in life- like marriage, because it wasn’t an option for me. Now I’m older there’s nothing to talk about- I’m not looking for work, I’m not exploring things and friendships as much as I used to. It’s hard to have much sympathy for her- because it’s not really a relationship if there’s no depth of communication. My dad is worse- he’s SLI and silent but somehow I feel more love from him. Apparently people can act like a different temperament in their youth and retirement years..so maybe that’s also making it feel more awkward. I just hope that it gets a bit easier when I finally have a partner and can talk to her about more ordinary, boring life stuff. I don’t mind if she’s boring, but I just feel annoyed to have to deal with awkwardness because she has no ability to ‘say sorry’ or make amends for being such an emotionally distant mother. The lack of truth is so depressing..but for her it’s a way of coping. Thank god I have N type friends who I can actually talk with on the level.
edit: there was also a point in my adult life where I realised that I no longer cared if my mum was angry with me about something. I’m not sure what that was- loss of respect or just realising I didn’t need her approval. Realising that she lived for drama as that makes her feel noticed..it’s not all her fault we argued, but her lack of ni prevented her from seeing that from my perspective I didn’t think she’d done enough for me to have the right to be so angry..
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 07-08-2022 at 01:15 PM.
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