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Thread: ESE or SEE ? Based on some facts about me

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    Default ESE or SEE ? Based on some facts about me

    Do I give off an ESE or SEE vibe based on the following facts?
    You don't need to give me a lengthy explanation I you don't feel like it, taking part in the poll is already great

    - I am very, very, very expressive.
    - I don't believe in visual typing, whatsoever.
    - I get different results everytime I take a socionics personality test. Recently, I've been oscillating between ESE-1Fe, SEE-1Se and SEE with no subtype.
    - I'm an extrovert : I get energy from interacting with people and the outside world.
    - My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough).
    - The way I feel about people can vary drastically within a day. Anger/dislike is rapidly replaced by joy/appreciation, and vice versa.
    - In my everyday life, I relate much more to ESEs than SEEs, but it could be because I know less SEEs (or fail to properly type them).
    - However, I don't relate as much to Fe creatives, especially IEIs (I could definitely see a supervision relation between them and I).
    - I relate a lot to those aspects of the Gamma quadra :
    • "Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
    • Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
    • Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance."

    - I relate a lot to that aspect of the Alpha quadra : "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously" (taken from the sociotype.com questionnaire).
    - I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself.
    - I don't like fickle people. I strive for consistency, especially in my close relations.
    - Entertaining people comes easily for me.
    - I care a lot about how I look and could spend a lot of time/money in that regard.
    - I am a big spender. I just can't save money. Most of it is spent in going out, food, clothes.
    - I really am a big spender. When I go grocery shopping, I buy everything that's on my list + twice more articles that were not planned.
    - I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle.
    - It's like a disease at this point and it has become a problem.
    - Enneagram wise, I think am either a 3w4, a 4w3 or an 8w7. I'm a sx-first for sure. UPDATE: I now type as a social 7w8.
    - I am drawn to introverts and love bringing them out of their shell. I used to dislike them and find them haugthy (especially logical introverts), until I found out about introversion.
    - I also used to dislike most logical types because when I started with MBTI: they were kinda described as insensitive and unemotional. Socionics helped painting them in a better light.
    - I don't take part in forums unless I need to get specific information.
    - I relate to some extent to both the Ti and Ni Polr descriptions.
    - I am not into sports, especially extreme sports. I LOVE hiking though.
    - I care about my comfort and enjoy spending an entire day relaxing/doing nothing.
    - My house does not have to be always perfectly clean. Especially if like me, you have 2 cats.
    - I love eating but hate cooking.
    - I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude.


    Thanks to all who will take the time to reply!
    Last edited by Xima; 04-25-2022 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    Do I give off an ESE or SEE vibe based on the following facts?
    You don't need to give me a lengthy explanation I you don't feel like it, taking part in the poll is already great

    - I am very, very, very expressive.
    - I don't believe in visual typing, whatsoever.
    - I get different results everytime I take a socionics personality test. Recently, I've been oscillating between ESE-1Fe, SEE-1Se and SEE with no subtype.
    - I'm an extrovert : I get energy from interacting with people and the outside world.
    - My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough).
    - The way I feel about people can vary drastically within a day. Anger/dislike is rapidly replaced by joy/appreciation, and vice versa.
    - In my everyday life, I relate much more to ESEs than SEEs, but it could be because I know less SEEs (or fail to properly type them).
    - However, I don't relate as much to Fe creatives, especially IEIs (I could definitely see a supervision relation between them and I).
    - I relate a lot to those aspects of the Gamma quadra :
    • "Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
    • Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
    • Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance."

    - I relate a lot to that aspect of the Alpha quadra : "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously" (taken from the sociotype.com questionnaire).
    - I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself.
    - I don't like fickle people. I strive for consistency, especially in my close relations.
    - Entertaining people comes easily for me.
    - I care a lot about how I look and could spend a lot of time/money in that regard.
    - I am a big spender. I just can't save money. Most of it is spent in going out, food, clothes.
    - I really am a big spender. When I go grocery shopping, I buy everything that's on my list + twice more articles that were not planned.
    - I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle.
    - It's like a disease at this point and it has become a problem.
    - Enneagram wise, I think am either a 3w4, a 4w3 or an 8w7. I'm a sx-first for sure.
    - I am drawn to introverts and love bringing them out of their shell. I used to dislike them and find them haugthy (especially logical introverts), until I found out about introversion.
    - I also used to dislike most logical types because when I started with MBTI: they were kinda described as insensitive and unemotional. Socionics helped painting them in a better light.
    - I don't take part in forums unless I need to get specific information.
    - I relate to some extent to both the Ti and Ni Polr descriptions.
    - I am not into sports, especially extreme sports. I LOVE hiking though.
    - I care about my comfort and enjoy spending an entire day relaxing/doing nothing.
    - My house does not have to be always perfectly clean. Especially if like me, you have 2 cats.
    - I love eating but hate cooking.
    - I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude.


    Thanks to all who will take the time to reply!
    You are a Dynamic type, thus you are not SEE. Ignoring Fi and Rational (especially innate planning, lists etc.) is obvious to me. You are most likely either ESE or EIE, but not SEE. Probably EIE though, especially as ESE doesn't care about bringing people out of their shell much (this is more related to the Mentor, more intuitive/potentiality).
    Last edited by Ocean Man; 04-19-2022 at 02:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StereoTYPE View Post
    You are a Dynamic type, thus you are not SEE. Ignoring Fi and Rational (especially innate planning, lists etc.) is obvious to me. You are most likely either ESE or EIE, but not SEE. Probably EIE though, especially as ESE doesn't care about bringing people out of their shell much (this is more related to the Mentor, more intuitive/potentiality).

    Note taking and lists are a typical quality of static types, not dynamic. It has nothing to do with rationality.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaemonia View Post
    Note taking
    I never mentioned note-taking. With that said, OP is simply not SEE or ESE. Another EIE. This forum sure is boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StereoTYPE View Post
    I never mentioned note-taking. With that said, OP is simply not SEE or ESE. Another EIE. This forum sure is boring.

    pointless nitpick
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by StereoTYPE View Post
    You are a Dynamic type, thus you are not SEE. Ignoring Fi and Rational (especially innate planning, lists etc.) is obvious to me. You are most likely either ESE or EIE, but not SEE. Probably EIE though, especially as ESE doesn't care about bringing people out of their shell much (this is more related to the Mentor, more intuitive/potentiality).
    Quote Originally Posted by StereoTYPE View Post
    I never mentioned note-taking. With that said, OP is simply not SEE or ESE. Another EIE. This forum sure is boring.
    I don't have an ounce of Ni running through my veins (even if I would like to!).
    I did consider EIE a while back (provided that I was a very strong Fe subtype), but gave up on the idea since.

    I'm an ESFx, so I will simply take it that you think I'm more likely an ESE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    - I am very, very, very expressive.
    - I don't believe in visual typing, whatsoever.
    - I get different results everytime I take a socionics personality test. Recently, I've been oscillating between ESE-1Fe, SEE-1Se and SEE with no subtype.
    - I'm an extrovert : I get energy from interacting with people and the outside world.
    - My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough).
    - The way I feel about people can vary drastically within a day. Anger/dislike is rapidly replaced by joy/appreciation, and vice versa.
    - In my everyday life, I relate much more to ESEs than SEEs, but it could be because I know less SEEs (or fail to properly type them).
    - However, I don't relate as much to Fe creatives, especially IEIs (I could definitely see a supervision relation between them and I).
    - I relate a lot to those aspects of the Gamma quadra :
    • "Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them.
    • Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established.
    • Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance."

    - I relate a lot to that aspect of the Alpha quadra : "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously" (taken from the sociotype.com questionnaire).
    - I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself.
    - I don't like fickle people. I strive for consistency, especially in my close relations.
    - Entertaining people comes easily for me.
    - I care a lot about how I look and could spend a lot of time/money in that regard.
    - I am a big spender. I just can't save money. Most of it is spent in going out, food, clothes.
    - I really am a big spender. When I go grocery shopping, I buy everything that's on my list + twice more articles that were not planned.
    - I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle.
    - It's like a disease at this point and it has become a problem.
    - Enneagram wise, I think am either a 3w4, a 4w3 or an 8w7. I'm a sx-first for sure.
    - I am drawn to introverts and love bringing them out of their shell. I used to dislike them and find them haugthy (especially logical introverts), until I found out about introversion.
    - I also used to dislike most logical types because when I started with MBTI: they were kinda described as insensitive and unemotional. Socionics helped painting them in a better light.
    - I don't take part in forums unless I need to get specific information.
    - I relate to some extent to both the Ti and Ni Polr descriptions.
    - I am not into sports, especially extreme sports. I LOVE hiking though.
    - I care about my comfort and enjoy spending an entire day relaxing/doing nothing.
    - My house does not have to be always perfectly clean. Especially if like me, you have 2 cats.
    - I love eating but hate cooking.
    - I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude.


    Thanks to all who will take the time to reply!


    "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously""
    is something SEE can have too, depend on the subtype.

    You more into maintain a group atmosphere or your own freedom?

    I am not into sports, especially extreme sports. I LOVE hiking though.
    This feel like more Si-Ne than Se-Ni.


    You look like Harmony subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnished View Post

    "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously""
    is something SEE can have too, depend on the subtype.
    I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnished View Post
    You more into maintain a group atmosphere or your own freedom?
    I would say I love to have fun with people, but my freedom is important indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarnished View Post
    This feel like more Si-Ne than Se-Ni.
    Indeed, but at the same time, do all Se-lead necessarily like sports? Not sure about that.

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    Additional info: After spending time with a enneagram enthousiast friend this week-end and reading new sources material, I now confidently self-type as a social 7w8!
    It actually makes so much more sense, even my original post indicates that enneatype!

    Maybe people will be more confident taking part in the poll now that I am confident about my enneatype, even if I personally think both ESEs and SEEs can be 7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    - I am very, very, very expressive. (Fe, high usage and probably valued)
    - I don't believe in visual typing, whatsoever. (Irrelevant)
    - I get different results everytime I take a socionics personality test. Recently, I've been oscillating between ESE-1Fe, SEE-1Se and SEE with no subtype. (Again, irrelevant)
    - I'm an extrovert : I get energy from interacting with people and the outside world. (Irrelevant but E > I from here)
    - My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough). (Turbulent cognition?)
    - The way I feel about people can vary drastically within a day. Anger/dislike is rapidly replaced by joy/appreciation, and vice versa. (Again, turbulent cognition?)
    - In my everyday life, I relate much more to ESEs than SEEs, but it could be because I know less SEEs (or fail to properly type them). (Unrelated)
    - However, I don't relate as much to Fe creatives, especially IEIs (I could definitely see a supervision relation between them and I). (Unrelated)
    - I relate a lot to those aspects of the Gamma quadra :
    • "Gamma types take a hard-line approach regarding ethical principles and the punishment, even revenge, on those who break them. (SF)
    • Gamma types place high value on personal loyalty, once they feel a close relationship has been established. (SF)
    • Gamma types like to discuss personal relationships in a realistic manner and are skeptical that "jerks" can ever become "nice people", for instance." (SF)

    - I relate a lot to that aspect of the Alpha quadra : "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously" (taken from the sociotype.com questionnaire). (SF)
    - I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself. (Fe)
    - I don't like fickle people. I strive for consistency, especially in my close relations. (Ti)
    - Entertaining people comes easily for me. (FeTi)
    - I care a lot about how I look and could spend a lot of time/money in that regard. (Si valued + Te unvalued)
    - I am a big spender. I just can't save money. Most of it is spent in going out, food, clothes. (Te unvalued)
    - I really am a big spender. When I go grocery shopping, I buy everything that's on my list + twice more articles that were not planned. (Te+Ni unvalued)
    - I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle. (Te unvalued)
    - It's like a disease at this point and it has become a problem. (Ti)
    - Enneagram wise, I think am either a 3w4, a 4w3 or an 8w7. I'm a sx-first for sure. UPDATE: I now type as a social 7w8. (OK)
    - I am drawn to introverts and love bringing them out of their shell. I used to dislike them and find them haugthy (especially logical introverts), until I found out about introversion. (Hm)
    - I also used to dislike most logical types because when I started with MBTI: they were kinda described as insensitive and unemotional. Socionics helped painting them in a better light. (Sure)
    - I don't take part in forums unless I need to get specific information. (Alright)
    - I relate to some extent to both the Ti and Ni Polr descriptions. (Makes sense)
    - I am not into sports, especially extreme sports. I LOVE hiking though. (Sure)
    - I care about my comfort and enjoy spending an entire day relaxing/doing nothing. (Si-valued vs Ni-unvalued)
    - My house does not have to be always perfectly clean. Especially if like me, you have 2 cats. (Irrelevant)
    - I love eating but hate cooking. (Still irrelevant)
    - I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude. (Fe)
    You seemed to be chaotic out there, I would doubt SEE.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deductive View Post
    - My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough). (Turbulent cognition?)
    - The way I feel about people can vary drastically within a day. Anger/dislike is rapidly replaced by joy/appreciation, and vice versa. (Again, turbulent cognition?)
    If by "turbulent cognition?" you meant "disorder?", then the answer is a big no!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    If by "turbulent cognition?" you meant "disorder?", then the answer is a big no!
    He basically meant Dynamic.

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    Specifically, it meant to be the most chaotic cognition that Mr G. has ever recognized in one of his theories.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    No, I just sensed the instability in your demeanor, or the cognition that "constantly moves towards the chaos to experiment/organize themselves."
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deductive View Post
    Specifically, it meant to be the most chaotic cognition that Mr G. has ever recognized in one of his theories.
    Interestingly, all VS types are Dynamic.

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    Nothing better than a conflictor to determine your type I guess

    I'm on board with that ESE typing!
    Keeping the poll open for now in case other people wish to take part in it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    I am very, very, very expressive
    extravert


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    I don't believe in visual typing, whatsoever
    Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    My levels of energy tend to vary A LOT throughout the day (one of the main reasons I was thinking SEE up until now, but now I don't think that's enough)
    that's actually a dynamic trait (ESE is dynamic), SEE is static, they don't change very often


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    In my everyday life, I relate much more to ESEs than SEEs
    SEE is Napoleon, a conqueror through force and understanding of human relations, ESE is a hugo, life of the party. They can look similar though since they are quasi-identical in sociotype theory. But the values are pretty much opposite.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    I don't like fickle people. I strive for consistency, especially in my close relations
    This is a rational trait (jugers in MBTI)


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    Entertaining people comes easily for me
    Me too


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude
    now that's a gamma thing ain't it? Make up your mind woman. How do you generally react when a person tries to apologize?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    Me too
    You mean it is not type related? I always imagined Extroverts being better at entertaining people, especially ExFx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    now that's a gamma thing ain't it?
    I always thought it was a gamma thing too, but for instance it is interpreted as Fe by Deductive on post #10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    Make up your mind woman.
    How dare you misgender me??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    How do you generally react when a person tries to apologize?
    It depends on what you are apologizing for and how genuine it is.
    If it is a minor thing, I will be quickly appeased if you make the effort to apologize.
    There are some things I just can't forgive though : betrayal, hypocrisy to mention just a few. I am a e7 with a strong 8 wing. The ESE I know seem more forgiving than I will ever be.
    I can forgive rudeness, but if it is the first time we meet, you're going to be on probation for a while...
    Last edited by Xima; 04-29-2022 at 04:26 PM.

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    I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude
    Yeah this look more alpha. SEE can be rude as fuck when they're pissed off and turn to "don't give a shit about the group's atmosphere" mode. I saw a SEE told her own audience to fuck off because "No one allowed to tell me what to do!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    You mean it is not type related? I always imagined Extroverts being better at entertaining people, especially ExFx.
    No, I was just testing the orientation of your ethics


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    How dare you misgendering me??
    Pardon me, I saw a woman silhouete in your avatar pic so I thought you were a woman


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    It depends on what you are apologizing for and how genuine it is.
    If it is a minor thing, I will be quickly appeased if you make the effort to apologize.
    There are some things I just can't forgive though : betrayal, hypocrisy to mention just a few. I am a e7 with a strong 8 wing...
    Have you considered IEE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    No, I was just testing the orientation of your ethics
    And where are my ethics oriented towards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    Have you considered IEE?
    I have. I seriously have, more precisely IEE-Fi. IEE would be a #3 on my potential types list (tied with EIE). I even got typed as Ne-Fi on the cognitivetype.com website, but:
    - That's a whole other typology system.
    - I feel more confident in my use of sensory functions : aesthethics, appearances, assertiveness, etc. username4747who self types as a Ni-lead even sensed a Ni polr, and from my life experience, I can't disagree.
    - I relate more to the description of dynamic types. According to several people who replied to this thread, I would be a dynamic type which would exclude IEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    And where are my ethics oriented towards?



    I have. I seriously have, more precisely IEE-Fi. IEE would be a #3 on my potential types list (tied with EIE). I even got typed as Ne-Fi on the cognitivetype.com website, but:
    - That's a whole other typology system.
    - I feel more confident in my use of sensory functions : aesthethics, appearances, assertiveness, etc. username4747who self types as a Ni-lead even sensed a Ni polr, and from my life experience, I can't disagree.
    - I relate more to the description of dynamic types. According to several people who replied to this thread, I would be a dynamic type which would exclude IEE.

    So my final take is EIE, sorry, you don't sound like sensory ego type. You do sound like you are expressive with emotions (Fe) and using Te(role) for the most of your explanations. At some point you mentioned not liking introverted logicals so much because they are "unemotional", in other words they lack and devalue Fe, which in this case you probably don't like ST deltas and NT gammas, which is expected. But that Se hidden-agenda... kinda gives you away, so maybe that's why you were thinking SEE instead.

    Unless you can convince me you have Ni polr, my final take is this.

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    Hi, hope I can Help.
    From what you said you seem ESE to me, but maybe with some question we could try to be more precise.
    - You said you relate to: "Have fun in a light-hearted atmosphere; enjoy life and don't take it too seriously". This in my opinion demonstrate you are not EIE. Fe in EIEs is configurated with Ni creative, and this make the type a more "ideal ethics" promoter, making him "heavier" in chill contexts, because always judging what is good and what is not, with a wise demeanor and vibe of superiority. ESE on the countrary has Fe with creative Si, so it searches way to create good atmosphere of mutual happiness and enjoying in a genuine way, not so serious as EIEs. Beta tend to be a lot heavier in general in chill atmosphere, also, PolR Si would make EIE go against static atmospheres or too chill ones when they are in their worst. They feel a need to make things happen just to modify context when it is too tranquil, to gain some control on others with "aggression". ESE in their worst fear possible outcomes and happear way more "weak" and passive, but this makes them more preoccupied about others and so not so "heavy" like EIEs. This at least in my experience.

    - "I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself." This is extremely important. Why you resent? It's like you gave them friendship and then you want to shake their feelings to gain some form of control on them? (EIE) Because they are too statics? (EIE) Or you just resent because they betray you or sorta? (ESE);
    - "I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude". The fact you wrote this phrase underlines the importance of that behaviour which hurted you in a precise moment in time and space. I find Ni users more concerned in the general behaviours a person has through time and implications. They collect various memories of actions of those people and in the end they form a wide judgment. ESE (in my experience) will hardly consider you the same way after you behave bad one time, and consider a lot less the implication of your behaviour, even if the ESE himself was wrong.
    So, a very healty EIE can look like an ESE, but he will keep an aristocratic aura and a detatched demeanor very often.

    Now I will let you an exemple about my two friend, an ESE and an EIE. Don' consider just what they said, but how they formed their sentence, considering ESE's more "empirical" approach and EIE's more ideal one:
    ESE was sad because she has been left (two years before that moment) by her ex, and searched the help of the EIE. EIE said "He was important because he was a special person or just because the moments you passed with him made him special to you? He cheated on you and hurts you even today. He cannot be special. Think about your dignity. Did your parents give life to you just to be a slave for a monster like him?". Like you see, EIE is aristocratic in their speeches. ESE found his advices too wise and not pratical. She continues being sad (another year passed) for her ex and has hard time letting go past (Ni PolR). The EIE has a more "learning" attitude about past, ESE find it way harder.
    Another discussions between them:
    ESE: "A person has to accept you the way you are, with your weakness"
    EIE: "Yeah but this doesn't mean you don't need to improve if you feel it"
    ESE: "Yes but not all people feel this need to improve"
    EIE: "Agree, and it's a shame. I still hope you will try"
    This doesn't mean ESE won't improve, just it is more unconscious and a consequence of the events on their whole persona, while for EIEs changes are more through "conscious epiphanies".
    Last edited by Lesri; 04-30-2022 at 04:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    So my final take is EIE, sorry, you don't sound like sensory ego type. You do sound like you are expressive with emotions (Fe) and using Te(role) for the most of your explanations. At some point you mentioned not liking introverted logicals so much because they are "unemotional", in other words they lack and devalue Fe, which in this case you probably don't like ST deltas and NT gammas, which is expected. But that Se hidden-agenda... kinda gives you away, so maybe that's why you were thinking SEE instead.

    Unless you can convince me you have Ni polr, my final take is this.
    EIE is another type I seriously considered (mind you, I considered most of them!). If I really am EIE, I have a very, very strong Fe subtype....

    Reasons I think I have Ni Polr :
    - Thinking about the future and making predictions is indeed tiring to me and I'd rather avoid the subject altogether. I don't feel that confident with Te either but at least I can engage with it pretty efficiently.
    - I am often late. Arriving on time requires extra effort to me.
    - I don't feel as "heavy" (to quote @Lesri) than most EIE I know.

    Not really a sign of Ni Polr, but a value of Si :
    - I remember everything about every person I know. (Fe+Si?)
    - I'm not an idealist.
    - I very much value my comfort.

    Reasons I could have Si Polr :
    - My sleep schedule... better not talk about it
    - I could take better care of my health. Examples : eating too much (I never forget to eat though!), waiting months to go back to the dentist, not sleeping enough during the week, sleeping too much on the week-end.
    - You think I have Se role, I do relate to the Se role descriptions : it's like I almost care too much about my appearance and other sensory stuff to actually be a sensory ego, if that makes sense.

    Not really a sign of a Si polr, but more a value of Ni :
    - I'm 'harsher' than all the ESE I know (Ni over Si?).
    - I have an interest in some Ni subjects : self-reflection, typologies, everything that's mysterious...
    - Everytime I think I am a certain type, I will get that type on all the socionics tests I know (aimtoknow, socionics, gulenko website, etc.). I am very much biaised when taking those tests.

    I want to precise I have been raised by two Si ego parents, do you think it could have 'suppressed' the Ni in favor of the Si?

    I knew I should have included EIE and IEE in my poll. Dang it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    - "I'm a social chameleon : I can get along with almost everybody. At least at first. Then I resent people with whom I must adapt myself." This is extremely important. Why you resent? It's like you gave them friendship and then you want to shake their feelings to gain some form of control on them? (EIE) Because they are too statics? (EIE) Or you just resent because they betray you or sorta? (ESE);
    I don't want to control them and I wouldn't say I feel betrayed either.
    It's just that I want to be my true self. I shoudn't have to adapt myself to be loved by somebody.
    I resent it because I had to change who I was over the past to be loved, or at least that's what I thought I had to do. To the point I forgot who I was.
    Yes, I was (and probably still am) a people-pleaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    - "I find it very hard to forgive a behavior I perceived as rude". The fact you wrote this phrase underlines the importance of that behaviour which hurted you in a precise moment in time and space. I find Ni users more concerned in the general behaviours a person has through time and implications. They collect various memories of actions of those people and in the end they form a wide judgment. ESE (in my experience) will hardly consider you the same way after you behave bad one time, and consider a lot less the implication of your behaviour, even if the ESE himself was wrong.
    Relating much more to the ESE here. But like I said before, after a 'probation' period, I can pardon a rude behavior if you know how to make up for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    Now I will let you an exemple about my two friend, an ESE and an EIE. Don' consider just what they said, but how they formed their sentence, considering ESE's more "empirical" approach and EIE's more ideal one:
    ESE was sad because she has been left (two years before that moment) by her ex, and searched the help of the EIE. EIE said "He was important because he was a special person or just because the moments you passed with him made him special to you? He cheated on you and hurts you even today. He cannot be special. Think about your dignity. Did your parents give life to you just to be a slave for a monster like him?". Like you see, EIE is aristocratic in their speeches. ESE found his advices too wise and not pratical. She continues being sad (another year passed) for her ex and has hard time letting go past (Ni PolR). The EIE has a more "learning" attitude about past, ESE find it way harder.
    Here though, I relate much more to the EIE. Not only what they say, but also how they say it.
    I am extremely proud. Dignity is very important to me. I would never go back to an ex who betrayed/humiliated me for instance. I feel much more unforgiving than most ESE I know.
    I am also quite theatrical in the way I express myself. I don't think it translates well when I write in english (english is not my first language), and my theatrality/vehemence is much more visible orally. I attribute that to 4D Fe.
    Last edited by Xima; 04-30-2022 at 08:09 PM.

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    Don't worry. I'm italian and not extremely good in english, so I can understand this problem ^_^

    Ok you made some good point for EIE. The way you express yourself tells a lot about it. EIEs take almost every discussion with those manners because are inspired by a sort of inner guiding force (which is almost always ethical or ideal). It's like they are talking to an audience while they're just doing a 1-1 conversation. A spirit possess them. Their tone becomes automatically more convincing and adjusted. But, this thing doesn't always help in a chill atmospheres and can be perceived "heavy" or out of context, and this is the effect of Si PolR, an effect worsen by the role function Te (not Se), which is the function which "overreact" to things. The EIE can start telling facts with that tone of superiority while the other person soon starts not caring what he is saying. ESE have also this Role Te. So we must analyze cases:
    - EIEs are a lot in that "propaganda" vibe also when they don't use role Te; it's hard for them to just chill, but sporadically they can with some kind of people;
    - ESEs are most of the time in a chill mode, but when they overreact, it happens because they fear to be judged. I met two ESEs that felt attacked when I said the word "virginity", and aggressively answered that "girls are free to do what they want and when they want to", while I didn't even judged virginity importance. They work like conditioned reflexes.

    From what I spotted, ESE relies a lot (more than EIEs) on others opinion, and when they overreact is because they fear someone will judge them for their choices in life, phisical aspect, ethnicity etc. (Valued Si)
    EIEs are more autonomous and gives importance to their personal space and personal (quite often) unpopular opinions, rather than others' (Ni valued + Si not valued). He can be a solitary person.

    About Se, it is a function that works well in EIE, and it is the opposed to the PolR. EIEs search some degree of control on things. Hierarchy is quite important to him. They are preoccupied about their wealth (because wealth = a certain degree of freedom), so despite being an "artistical" type, they don't just follow blindly their dreams if too risky (while IEI does it). Money and status are very important to the type (and it is an important Beta value in general, less for IEI, the "black sheep" of the quadra). Se it's the Hidden Agenda of the type.

    About "remember things", my sources told that Ni is the function of memory, not just vision, "a-ah" moment (like mbti), in socionics. In Mbti Si is the memory function, but in my opinion Si users remember most what created in them particular responses, or things like birthday etc.
    EIE's Ni categorize patterns of people and phenomena and makes creative use of that understanding, for this reason lot of EIEs are interested in typing methods. They like metaphors, myths and the "archetypical", that sort of structure behind things and people which Ni tends for its nature. I read that EIEs is the type who searches most for his identity through typing and the most indecisive, who mistypes himself most of types. This could be due to the fact that he is so good at acquiring other's patterns that he can understand them and confuse himself in the process.

    I read somewhere EIEs memory it's quite visionary. It looks bizarre.
    My EIE friend memorized mental images of about 3000 dreams he made from when he was 7 (now he is 25). He remember tons of things from the past without a reason. He was in mystic things when he was younger.

    PS. My intent wasn't to make you think EIEs are always "heavy" with people, but that ther's some deep melancholy in them that make feel actually like that. If the person is in a healty state it's easier to hide it. It is indeed one of the most twisted and complex socionic type.

    Another personal note: I hope I didn't described ESE too bad, because it is a fantastic type (and my favourite).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    - I remember everything about every person I know. (Fe+Si?)
    Not necessarily type related, I've known intuitives who were detail oriented


    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    Thinking about the future and making predictions is indeed tiring to me and I'd rather avoid the subject altogether

    My sleep schedule... better not talk about it
    Yeah, I don't know if it's true but Si ego types have a problem with time. So, point for you there. Also, I forgot to mention in my last post: I overlooked an important detail, you are Fe+ not Fe- so now that I think about it, it's unlikely you are EIE.

    It's easier to type seeing the person talk and behave etc. So it's probably that you are ESE but good luck, I hope someone else can help you better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    Ok you made some good point for EIE.
    I might express myself in a similar way than EIEs, but let's not forget theatrality is the realm of Fe, 4D Fe.
    Besides I re-read my last post and most of my "Si-Polr moments" are starting to look more and more like "Ni-Polr moment" in the sense that most of them are related to time... Would you agree with that?
    I wish I had that Ni though!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    Another personal note: I hope I didn't described ESE too bad, because it is a fantastic type (and my favourite).
    Don't worry, I've been lurking in typology forums for a while and believe me I've seen it all
    ESFj and most generally sensors always get a bad rap. Another big reason I don't take part in typology forums.

    Out of curiosity, what type do you identify yourself as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycantrope View Post
    you are Fe+ not Fe- so now that I think about it, it's unlikely you are EIE.
    Don't ESE have Fe- ? Do you have some links you can send me that say otherwise?
    Last edited by Xima; 05-01-2022 at 01:05 AM.

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    This is how Si PolR looks (from the sociotype site):

    The EIE will feel empty and restless if he is in a situation where he is expected to just chill out and have a good time; he would feel that this undermines his devotion to realizing his abstract visions. He can only enjoy visceral contact with reality if it is accompanied by an active will to initiate such contact, to intentionally engage it. EIEs frequently reflect on experiences with others, both positive and negative, and are always bracing themselves for future problems (which mostly involve other people). This extensive planning of future engagements cause EIEs to often feel restless as they want to implement their goals quickly. In situations where they are forced to remain patient and idle, EIEs can dwell in their stress and neglect real problems.
    Yes, your Si polR moments looks a lot more like Ni PolR. I can tell you my experience with all my ESE friends:
    "- My sleep schedule... better not talk about it" my ESE friend goes sleeping at 03:00 AM and get up 2 PM.
    She doesn't value time at all. We recently argued because I told her she is always late despite she lives 5 minutes from where we meet, while I do 40 minutes of car to reach her and I'm always there in time.
    - "I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle" this is Alpha quadra in my opinion. My ESE friends encourage me to spend more. Without them I would save too much money without a reason (my thing is related to "unvalued" Si I think).
    - "I care about my comfort and enjoy spending an entire day relaxing/doing nothing." this is Si. EIEs can't just relax so much. This doesn't mean EIE are always work, but that also when they don't work and they are doing nothint, they are not so relaxed (Si PolR).

    I think your interest in typology is quite normal for this type. My ESE friend started enjoying more abstract concepts at the age of 22-23. Ne is still the Hidden Agenda of the type, so ther's nothing strange in it.
    In my opinion, we are really near to the solution of this typing

    Thanks for the answer related to my type. I'm good at reading other but not myself. I'm too scatterbrained when talking about "identity" and I feel I enter in different vibes every months. My friends relate me to EIE characters but I don't really know. Maybe I will do a post like yours explaining my situation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    This is how Si PolR looks (from the sociotype site):
    I love this website, but I find it funny how I don't relate to any of the general descriptions of the types while I relate to most of the subtypes ones....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    "- My sleep schedule... better not talk about it" my ESE friend goes sleeping at 03:00 AM and get up 2 PM.
    Exactly! Well in my case it's more like I will only sleep 4-5 hours a night hence me thinking it could be a sign of a Si Polr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    She doesn't value time at all. We recently argued because I told her she is always late despite she lives 5 minutes from where we meet, while I do 40 minutes of car to reach her and I'm always there in time.
    Same here, same here, the closest I am, the more late I will be....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    - "I spend so much money that I'm currently living the paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyle" this is Alpha quadra in my opinion. My ESE friends encourage me to spend more. Without them I would save too much money without a reason (my thing is related to "unvalued" Si I think).
    Never go shopping with me or I will encourage you to spend it all! Being a 7w8 does not help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    I think your interest in typology is quite normal for this type. My ESE friend started enjoying more abstract concepts at the age of 22-23. Ne is still the Hidden Agenda of the type, so ther's nothing strange in it.
    In my opinion, we are really near to the solution of this typing
    I did take an interest in socionics around that age so that's very interesting. And my ESE friends love to talk about socionics too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    I'm good at reading other but not myself.
    Something most Fe lead have in common....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesri View Post
    I'm too scatterbrained when talking about "identity" and I feel I enter in different vibes every months. My friends relate me to EIE characters but I don't really know. Maybe I will do a post like yours explaining my situation
    You sound like an EIE friend of mine. She is much more idealistic than I am and she always tries to rally people to her noble causes!
    She initially thought she was INFj because she has always been reserved, but she fits more the engaged ENFj stereotype. She's probably a EIE-Ni.

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    I love this website, but I find it funny how I don't relate to any of the general descriptions of the types while I relate to most of the subtypes ones
    Same for me. They exaggerate the dominant function's aspects and sometimes are way too generalized. That part about Si PolR clearly contrast how they explained the dominant imo, which it's shown more like ESE's Fe rather than EIE's Fe. Still one of the few very good socionics site

    I think your type has been clarified. I'm 90% sure you're ESE (in my opinion). If you want, ther's this very long test which I consider the best. It gives you a PDF in the end which shows to you the most probable type. I sent it to a lot of friends of mine and confirmed my view about them.

    You sound like an EIE friend of mine. She is much more idealistic than I am and she always tries to rally people to her noble causes!
    She initially thought she was INFj because she has always been reserved, but she fits more the engaged ENFj stereotype. She's probably a EIE-Ni.
    I think you and my friends are right. This test I sent to you gave me EIE too and my problems are the same of my EIE friend. I suspected being IEI/EII until I met those type irl and saw the differences. It's just hard for me to accept it because I don't like to look like this. Not saying it's a bad type, it's just psychologically tiring. I think I'm more of a Ni subtype if I'm EIE.
    Thanks for your interest in my case ^_^

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    ESE: turbulence, EIE: intertwined
    ESE: might have issues with time related to social environment, EIE: instinctive time management
    ESE: is tuned to natural dynamics (VS cognition, https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....etic_Cognition) EIE: captures hidden patterns flexibly (DA cognition, https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....hmic_Cognition)
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