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Thread: LIE-LIE Identical Relations

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    Default LIE-LIE Identical Relations

    A thread to discuss relations between LIEs. (Identity)

    I looked but could not find a thread on this topic. If anyone knows of one already in existence, I hope the mods can move the posts in this thread to that one.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I've known this guy for about twenty years, but not well. He's always run companies, although they don't seem to always do very well.

    I was touring one of our customer's plants, and this guy unexpectedly turned up as the General Manager (not the owner) of the company. I was astounded, because I always thought that the company was bigger than he was.

    I spoke with him for several hours as he showed me around, and the longer we spoke, the more I came to realize that he's LIE. He's just the e3 version of LIEs, not my e8 version.

    He's always seemed like a braggart, talking about huge plants that he owns or runs which are in faraway states. I guess there was some truth, however tenuous, to that story, because the owners of that faraway branch evidently installed him in his present position.

    The company he is running does $9M/yr and has twenty employees, which means they have $450,000 in sales per employee, and for a manufacturing business, that is fantastic.*

    What is not fantastic is that he has been there for a few years and he said that there are people there whose names he doesn't know. That's bad.

    I knew of the company thirty years ago, but I also knew that I would never want to work there, because the owner is a jerk. The LIE e3 confirmed that he didn't get along with the owner, but since he wasn't around much, the LIE pretty much could run the place the way he wanted. To this end, he hired an ESI e9 secretary.

    Most of the workers there seemed professional and happy, except for the foreman, who seemed like he was uncertain of his position. The LIE later told me that he didn't get along with the foreman, but the owner loved the guy, so there was nothing he could do.

    My conclusions: The LIE e3 fell into a good situation, both for himself and for the company's owner. The LIE has very definite ideas about efficiency and quality and they seem to be paying off in terms of sales dollar per employee.

    My criticisms: The LIE e3 has been divorced twice and seems almost oblivious to the importance of human relationships. He seems OK with most of the workers, and his relationship with the owner is manageable. but he should completely readjust his attitude towards the foreman, because if he can't replace the guy, he'd better start liking him better.


    *This assumes that what he told me is true, though. I'm an LIE e8, and I lie or mislead people entirely through the omission of data. I never knowingly directly provide untrue information. An LIE e3 is moving towards an SEE, and SEEs are subject to flights of unreality based on their wishes and dreams, and are capable of flat out lies, straight to your face. Apparently, with an ILI Dual, SEEs think that it's up to you to discover the truth.

    *EDIT*
    I just remembered that I have another criticism of this LIE e3. He came from a machining background, where you use cutters and drills to make chips. The business he's now running uses EDM (sparks) to remove metal. The EDM process is very slow, but because it is a niche operation, you can charge more for it.
    The LIE said that he hated EDM "because it is so slow." He said this while we were standing in front of a DMG Mori Monoblock (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avSM4Jt3iSc), about a $1M machine, and he and I were both loving that machine, but everyone can do five-axis machining, and not everyone can do EDM.
    Hating the business that you are in, and wanting to replace it with something that you think is cooler, is usually a big mistake.

    Not knowing what business you really are in has taken down more than one company.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-11-2022 at 03:31 PM.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Some observations of LIEs and LIE teams, from an Identical LIE:

    I know a lot of LIEs, and from my perspective, they all have some similar characteristics (lol. of course.)

    About half of them are running companies. Most of them are in charge of small teams, and almost all of them have clear visions for the future.

    I'd say that LIEs are best as leaders espousing a vision for a materially profitable future. They are usually at the head of teams which have to show a profit in order to survive in uncertain future circumstances.

    What they are not is good project managers. LIEs are too changeable and they don't pay close enough attention to either time or material resources ("We can gamble that away in striving for our end goal because we'll be able to get more." < No, you can't, always.)

    The best project managers are SLIs, the LIE's Supervisors. If an LIE has an SLI on their team, then the LIE can be assured that the logistics will be taken care of. The problem with having a Supervisor on your team is that when you are around your Supervisor, you are on their territory, which is fatal to being able to execute your vision. Your Supervisor is always going to be able to find ways to stymie you, sometimes for reasons which feel like "just for the hell of it, because you're an idiot".
    The solution is to break your Suprvisor's hold on the situation by using their PoLR against them. In the case of SLIs, promote them to a position where they, themselves, are responsible for the performance of the people on THEIR team. This will keep them so off-balance that they won't have time to constantly criticize the LIE's performance.

    The role of the ESI on an LIE team seems to be to provide a sanity check to the LIE's 4D Ne random plans which, when unchecked, basically dissipate the team's energy. The ESI is someone who can say "No" to the LIE and will be able to get the LIE to focus on the actual problem. ESIs are also more aware of Si factors on the team than LIEs are, and can keenly see when an LIE is doing something stupid and will, hopefully, warn them.
    ESIs also do what they say they will do and usually on time. This matters more than you might think.

    ILI's can keep track of the finances and have a future focus, but they can deep-dive into imaginary land and find problems that don't exist and miss problems that do exist.

    ILEs can come up unexpected solutions to seemingly intractable problems, but they will not be the ones to convert those solutions into general practice. They save the day, then they go off and change something else that isn't broken and wreck that part of the program. Get them an SEI to stabilize them, otherwise, they don't have any reason to not blow up the place just to watch it burn.

    IEI-Fes are the world's greatest diplomats. If your customers are giving you problems, send in an IEI-Fe.

    LIIs are the world's best analysts, within a limited field. Low sensing means that they can miss Se things despite having strong Ne, but if you need a rational report or analysis done, have an LII write it.

    LSE's are LIE's Kindred, which means that they do a lot of the same things that LIEs do, but the LIE's tendency is to think that they do a lot of them wrong. This is not the case. LSEs will understand the LIE's plans and will simplify them, which is incredibly valuable when you have a lot to accomplish and limited resources to do it with.

    Get the LSE an EII Dual. It will counter the LSE's tendency to fall into despair and will provide the team with a conscientious, hard-working team member who is considerate of everyone's feelings.

    When you need to get stuff done in the real world, hire an SLE. Keep your commitment to them to what is written in the company policy booklet. SLEs tend to lead messy lives which can become expensive if you are funding them. Whether or not this is worth the tremendous amount of work that they get done, only you can decide. But if in doubt, follow the policy.

    When you need to impose order in an area and have it locked down tighter and tighter as time goes on, hire an LSI and put them in charge of that area. Then apologize to everyone working there, because they will all hate you before they inevitably quit.

    If you need someone who will represent your organization to the outside world in the best possible way, hire an SEI-Fe and put her between your company and the outside world. She should be the first person that visitors see and interact with.

    If your product isn't selling, hire an ESE as a consultant to redesign it, but only in a superficial way. Their artistic acumen can improve a product's looks and feel, but don't let them anywhere near engineering or money. If you do, they will cause you to lose more money than you ever thought possible, all while being the nicest guys you ever met.

    ....More advice to come, as I think of it and have time.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-13-2022 at 04:12 PM.

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    An LIE-Te whom I know sold his company a few months ago.

    I told him not to do it, but he knew better, of course, and he did it anyway. Because he’s a fucking genius and he only goes from win to win.

    Did I mention that this was his first company?

    The new owners kept him on contract for a while, just until they could move the people and equipment to a new location (far from the LIE, who does not respect the new management).

    Last week, I had a video conversation with the LIE, and he seemed to have aged ten or twenty years. He sounded broken. I heard he’s trying to start a new company and it’s not going well. No customers. Sometimes, lightning only strikes once.
    I immediately called one of his former employees who is at the new location with the new company and asked him “What’s up?”

    He said that the last time he’d seen the LIE, he was pacing back and forth as the movers removed the last of the equipment from the old building.
    ”He’s not going to have anyone to hold meetings with anymore”, the guy said, and then laughed. He is LSI-Ti.

    I then talked to an EII engineer, and he said that “everyone” misses the LIE, but what can you do?

    You can realize that hubris has consequences.


    So I started calling around, and about half of the people who were hired by the LIE have quit the new company.
    I believe that this is normal. People hire the people whom they get among with, and when the boss changes, everyone has to adjust to a different boss. One who is nothing like the old boss.

    It’s like going to sleep with a Dual or a Semi-Dual and waking up with an Extinguishment partner.
    ”Let me the fuck out of here.”
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-20-2022 at 04:32 AM.

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    I've determined myself to be LIE at this point. I'm curious because I am heavily Te founded. To the point where I do nothing but read and write. I'm working on another book. I'm curious to compare, but I don't think it'll satisfy me. You definitely have similar crack-addict tendencies that I do. It's a joke, extroversion is... weird. Being able to stand there and talk about nothing for years on a server about nothing in an attempt to learn small talk just to learn that you don't like small talk, which you knew prior to you going onto that server that you learned small talk from, all entirely because the crack addict nature of extroversion propels you forward. About right for me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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